This is my snubby


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romel
December 21, 2010, 09:59 AM
The Colt Army 1860 Snubnose in .36 cal....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xy5ajU_z-fU

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junkman_01
December 21, 2010, 10:30 AM
That is a '61 NAVY not a '60 Army.

pbearperry
December 21, 2010, 10:58 AM
Cool looking snubby.Give us a video of it belching fire and smoke please.

Prairie Dawg
December 21, 2010, 02:19 PM
Yup, a Navy.
Armies are all 44 caliber.
All the same, a nice looking piece.
--Dawg

My Snubbies in action:

http://www.dakotaskipper.net/ebay/angels3.jpg

mykeal
December 21, 2010, 02:59 PM
A nice looking gun. However, it appears that loading it involves a serious safety violation; the user's hands are directly in line with charged chambers. It's true the nipples are not capped, but this is still a very poor practice. The owner also seems quite cavalier about pointing it at himself and other places he probably does not want to shoot. Yes, I can see it's not loaded, but again, a very poor practice.

romel
December 21, 2010, 05:37 PM
If you notice well side that I am not loading the weapon, I am showing it and for it already I have assured me that was unloaded

romel
December 21, 2010, 05:42 PM
Thank you for the correction in the model, I have a doubt:
If .36 and .44 are the same it arms but of different calibre ..... because one is Army and other one is Navy??

A greeting.

Hobie
December 21, 2010, 05:58 PM
However, it appears that loading it involves a serious safety violation; the user's hands are directly in line with charged chambers. It's true the nipples are not capped, but this is still a very poor practice.Oh, yeah, then you will NEVER shoot ANY muzzleloader. Woe is me.

Shoot The Moon
December 21, 2010, 06:01 PM
Yes. As I understand it, Colt's firearms were referred to as being 'of Naval calibre' for .36 or 'Army calibre' for .44

Good looking gun by the way.. :)

Prairie Dawg
December 21, 2010, 06:06 PM
Yup.
.36 = Navy
.44 = Army

I have my wedges on all my snubbies properly fitted so they come out with finger pressure & I use a Powder Inc. cylinder loader to load 'em up.

http://www.blackdawgecartridge.com/cgi-bin/bdstore/perlshop.cgi?ACTION=enter&thispage=bd_cyl_loader.html&ORDER_ID=!ORDERID!

Takes only a few minutes at the unloading table to pop the wedge out, pull the barrel & cylinder & load 'em up.
AND I always get good, consistent loads.
---Dawg

mykeal
December 21, 2010, 06:28 PM
Originally Posted by mykeal
However, it appears that loading it involves a serious safety violation; the user's hands are directly in line with charged chambers. It's true the nipples are not capped, but this is still a very poor practice.
Oh, yeah, then you will NEVER shoot ANY muzzleloader. Woe is me.
__________________
Sincerely,

Hobie

No, Hobie, actually, I load all my percussion revolvers, single shot muzzleloading pistols, muzzleloading long rifles (percussion and flintlock) and muzzleloading sxs shotguns (all percussion) without putting my hands (or any other part of my body) in front of the muzzle or charged chambers. It's very simple to do, and something I teach in Hunter Safety Education. And I venture to say the vast majority of the members of this board do the same. Every one of the hundreds of individual loadings of long rifles, pistols and revolvers I oversaw at Friendship last year were done that way.

Now I will admit that using the short starter or ramrod on a single shot pistol or long rifle puts my hands NEAR the muzzle, and if the gun were to discharge I'm sure they'd be burned. But there wouldn't be a hole through the palm like there would be in the case of the OP's method.

Yes, romel, I noted that you were not actually loading it, only demonstrating. But you were demonstrating a dangerous practice, which was my point. The second rule of firearms safety is: "Never point a gun at something you don't intend to kill." It doesn't say 'loaded gun'. And the first rule of firearms safety is: "Always treat every gun as if it were loaded." You violated both rules.

romel
December 21, 2010, 07:55 PM
Thank you for his advices friend, but always I have thought that to the firearms it is necessary to respect but not be afraid of them them.

lobo9er
December 21, 2010, 08:23 PM
A nice looking gun. However, it appears that loading it involves a serious safety violation; the user's hands are directly in line with charged chambers. It's true the nipples are not capped, but this is still a very poor practice. The owner also seems quite cavalier about pointing it at himself and other places he probably does not want to shoot. Yes, I can see it's not loaded, but again, a very poor practice.

how is it you load your muzzle loader. without stuffing the rod down the barrel with your hand

SixxshootinSam
December 21, 2010, 08:43 PM
Kinda curious as well as to how one loads a muzzleloader without having your hand over the muzzle at any time.
I agree, there is a certain measure of safety that should be involved with handling your gun, but after I have inspected a gun and know it's not loaded im no longer treating it as loaded, unless there are people nearby that do not know this.

BCRider
December 21, 2010, 10:47 PM
Mykeal, the only way to load a C&B revolver without breaking your rule would be to remove the cylinder and use a loading press and mystical hand gestures that avoid passing any body parts over the zone above the cylinder openings. And then when handling and replacing the cylinder into the gun to observe control over where the chambers are pointed fully as if the cylinder was a loaded gun itself.

It is impossible to load an assembled revolver using the loading ram of the gun itself without putting one or both hands in front of the already charged chambers. A practice which seems to be widely accepted as safe.

BHP FAN
December 22, 2010, 04:58 AM
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af11/hut-man/Pistolas.jpg

mykeal
December 22, 2010, 06:56 AM
Oh come on. You're telling me it's perfectly ok to put your palm completely covering the muzzle of a gun with charged chambers. You know the OP's demonstration of loading his gun by placing his hand over the muzzle is utterly and completely unsafe, and then to compound the violation he points it at the camera and then himself. And then he puts this film of himself violating two basic safety rules on the internet so all the anti-gun nuts can use it to demonstrate how unsafe we are, and kids can see that, as long as you 'know' it's not loaded you can go ahead and point it anywhere you want.

Never point a gun at something you don't intend to kill.

Always treat every gun as a loaded gun.

Two very basic principles we've all heard from the very first day. But hey, since it's necessary to have your hands NEAR - not completely over - the chamber openings for a brief second, well then I guess they don't apply to you guys. You're bullet proof or something, eh? There's a world of difference between using two fingers to unlatch the loading lever and placing your palm over the muzzle, fully covering all five chamber openings; you know that, but hey, it's a good excuse to justify intentionally violating safety rules, so what the heck. What other unsafe practices do you use this to justify?

romel
December 22, 2010, 09:34 AM
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af11/hut-man/Pistolas.jpg
Hello BHP

I also had a Catleman of muzzleloader, it is a great revolver.

Vermonter
December 22, 2010, 11:04 AM
Well said Mykeal. Safety first.

BHP FAN
December 22, 2010, 12:11 PM
''Hello BHP, I also had a Cattleman of muzzleloader, it is a great revolver...''
Sweet! My little Thunderer [to the right in my photo] is a .357 Magnum, but I usually stick to .38's. I had a couple of the 1873 percussion revolvers, made by Pietta, I believe, but they went in a trade for one of my Trapdoor .45-70's.

romel
December 22, 2010, 05:15 PM
As you are making the burden of his revolver??? Used blackpowder 3F or 4F? Put taco between the gunpowder and the bullet? Used round ball or bullet?

BCRider
December 22, 2010, 07:28 PM
Again I'll ask... How can you load a cap and ball pistol cylinder in the gun's frame without putting your hands in front of the already loaded chambers?

To get the leverage needed to ram the ball home one hand has to firmly grasp the barrel and the other the loading lever. The one holding the barrel is therefore directly in line with the chambers that are already loaded. There is just no way to do this otherwise that I can see.

I suppose one could try holding the pistol grip during all this but that provides really poor leverage and pistol control. I can see pistols flying out of hands and other ills from trying to do this job in such a manner.

Even if a loading press is used if the gun in question is an 1851 or 1860 then again it is impossible to place the barrel back on in front of the gun after the cylinder is in place without exposing much of one's hand to the chamber mouths. The ONLY C&B pistol that could be loaded safely where no body part ever passes in front of the cylinder chambers would be a Remington style where the cylinder could be loaded in a press and transferred to the frame all without ever having a body part in front of the cylinder.

I'm all for safety. And certainly once the gun is placed for capping nothing of flesh and blood is put in front or even near the front face of the cylinder or barrel.

Prairie Dawg
December 22, 2010, 07:31 PM
If this .36 were mine, my load would be 15-17 grains FFFg black powder, a felt wad greased with Gatofeo's lube, a .375 roundball.
Accurate & lotsa boom & smoke.
--Dawg

SixxshootinSam
December 22, 2010, 09:14 PM
Talk about overzealous 'gun safety'. At my gun club I shoot with several other BP shooters and they certainly don't handle the guns like Mykeal describes. These are ex LEO's, vets and licensed instructors. A gun is a tool and not to be treated like you're afraid of it.
They too would like to know how you load a muzzleloader long gun or singleshot pistol without putting your hand right over the barrel as you stuff the ball and patch down.
Also, pointing a gun at a camera is breaking the rules? I'm pretty sure people that take a pic of their bore with a camera would do it away from their face. If not, well there's survival of the smartest for ya.

Jaymo
December 22, 2010, 10:52 PM
I defy that uncapped revolver to go off and shoot you by itself.

mykeal
December 22, 2010, 11:20 PM
Several folks attempting to justify unsafe practices with 'practicalities'. Ok, let's have the discussion.

The rule is: Never point a gun at something you don't intend to kill (or shoot). Ever heard of it? If not, your training is deficient and you really need to get some soon. If you have heard of it, you're intentionally ignoring it. Let me say that again: intentionally ignoring firearms safety rules. And now you're bragging about it in public. Was romel intending to shoot the camera? I really don't think so. Was he intending to shoot himself? Even less likely. Both actions are clear, unmistakable violations of the most basic rule of firearms safety there is. And here we are saying, "Oh, that's ok, the gun wasn't loaded." Do I really need to point out the fact that continual and intentional violation of that rule breeds carelessness, and the day will come when it happens with a loaded gun. Yeah, yeah, you're super careful and it would never happen to you, you always check to be sure it's unloaded and you never, ever make a mistake (the last guy who could say that truthfully died 2000 years ago, and friend, you don't qualify).

As for loading a revolver without putting your hands in front of the chambers, well, just stop by the pistol firing line at Friendship one day and I'll show you several hundred people who can do it. NOBODY on that line grabs the barrel while loading the cylinder. Far from being impossible, holding the grip is actually easier.

SixxshootinSam
December 23, 2010, 01:59 AM
Rules are meant to be broken. I'm glad we dont have you around when we are shooting, we wouldn't hear the end of it. I guess someone has to be the nag.


On a different note, I notice you also choose to ignore the question of how to load a front stuffer musket/rifle without putting your hand directly over the barrel. Im not talking revolvers here.

confederatemule
December 23, 2010, 07:05 AM
Romel, that is a very nice gun. Thanks for the video. But, for me, please leave the background racket, noise, music?, what ever it might be called, out.
Please don't let "mykeal" keep you from making other videos. And, if you have to put the racket in them, that will be okay, I can turn the volume off.

Mule

BTW...I don't follow the rules either. Not on anything.

arcticap
December 23, 2010, 07:52 AM
Gunsmiths and gun makers build guns and work on guns, and folks buy guns and inspect the bores of those guns, and folks clean their guns, and folks make videos....and how guns are handled during all of these events are matters of excercising sound, acceptable judgement.
It was an unloaded cylinder in the video, in a room that we can all reasonably believe that was only occupied by the video maker himself.
Romel trusts his own senses and judgement to determine that his own gun handling was safe in that situation. I agree with him that he didn't do anything wrong. I'm standing up for his RKBA and his right to make an acceptable gun video as he sees fit to promote his good purposes and intent.
There was no rules violation because it wasn't a loaded gun.
The situation wasn't real, it was contrived for the video.
We all know that.
That gun in the video was less dangerous than a live, modern primed cartridge round that's fully assembled and loaded with powder and a bullet and primer. Yet no one even thinks twice or complains about a live cartridge round being pointed at oneself or anyone else when they're simply holding it in their hand or inspecting it without being loaded in a firearm.
It's a common sense judgement that the gun handling in the video didn't pose a threat to anyone and was totally sanitary. It's just like TV shows & Hollywood, and no one likes to have their media censored when it's supposed to be free for us gun lovers to enjoy too.
Why is it okay for Clint Eastwood to point his guns at anyone he wants to in his movies but not for romel in his video? :cool:

Pete D.
December 23, 2010, 08:17 AM
MyKeal: As much as I appreciate your posts on this and other fora, I, too, am wondering how you can push a PRB down on to a rifle charge without having your hand over the muzzle or put OS cards onto a shot charge in a fowler.

The caplock pistol.....I suppose that one could grasp the gun by its grip and the loading lever with the other hand in order to seat a bullet.
Pete

mykeal
December 23, 2010, 08:24 AM
I notice you also choose to ignore the question of how to load a front stuffer musket/rifle without putting your hand directly over the barrel. Im not talking revolvers here.
I didn't ignore anything. You need to read all the posts. See Post No. 11.
Please don't let "mykeal" keep you from making other videos.
Nowhere did I say he shouldn't be making videos. He did a nice job with the video, except for the safety violations. He can continue making all the videos he wants, just pay attention to how he handles his guns.
There was no rules violation because it wasn't a loaded gun.
The situation wasn't real, it was contrived for the video.
We all know that.
That gun in the video was less dangerous than a live, modern primed cartridge round that's fully assembled and loaded with powder and a bullet and primer.
If you'd read my posts you would have noticed that I acknowledged the gun was unloaded. That's not the issue and you know it. Are you really not aware of the following safety rule: Treat every gun as a loaded gun? It's posted at every manned firing range I've ever been at. You are advocating intentional violation of that rule. Is that really your position?

lobo9er
December 23, 2010, 08:48 AM
And I venture to say the vast majority of the members of this board do the same. Every one of the hundreds of individual loadings of long rifles, pistols and revolvers I oversaw at Friendship last year were done that way.



actually you said none of your body parts are ever in the danger zones and thats how everyone at your shoot load theres too. thats where i thought you are just trying to blaze someone from up on that high horse. lol I only shoot a muzzleloader a few times during muzzleloader deer season but I cant figure out how you would do that.

lobo9er
December 23, 2010, 09:00 AM
so anyhow whats that .36 like shooting? does it have snap like a .357? I have never shot a 44spl but I would imagine it would be in that relm of recoil.

Geckgo
December 23, 2010, 09:21 AM
Mykeal, I just have a simple question for you. If you are really supposed to "Treat EVERY gun as if it were loaded" and "NEVER point a gun at ANYTHING that you don't intend to destroy" then how do you take your gun anywhere?

Do you store you gun in the safe with the muzzle pointed at the floor, in case it discharges?

How do you get a gun into your car without pointing it at the car?? If it's in the trunk then it's usually pointed at the wheels from behind the safety of its plastic case.

Bet that you are gonna tell me now that this stuff doesn't count b/c it's "not loaded" right?

IMO those are the two stupidest gun rules of the top ten, not because they are inhearently wrong, but they are vauge at best in their application. It is IMPOSSIBLE to follow the two of them together. Now a rule about keeping your finger away from the trigger until ready to fire, that one is number one on my list and everyone who goes shooting with me is reminded of that rule before, during, and after we shoot, like a mantra. I like it because it can be followed all the time with no prejudice as to gut feeling, hairs standing up on your neck, personal interpretation or anything else. Vague rules breed nothing but arguments when the boundaries and limitations of such rules are not adequately defined.

Just my two coppers.

romel
December 23, 2010, 09:50 AM
Thank you for the opinions, they put another video of burden of another "snubbye"...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGg3pjlrriU

confederatemule
December 23, 2010, 10:16 AM
I enjoyed the second video, even more.
I am very new to BP. I have two NAA revolvers, a .22lr and a .22mag. I did not know they made a BP revolver. I'll have to check into them. That may be something I would like to play with.
Thanks again.

Mule

SixxshootinSam
December 23, 2010, 11:37 AM
Mykeal, I did re-read post number 11, and you don't explain in that one either HOW to load a longrifle muzzleloader. I'm just very curious is all.

oh and by the way don't watch the 2nd vid if you are going to have a coronary about "breaking rule number one" :lol:

arcticap
December 23, 2010, 12:18 PM
You are advocating intentional violation of that rule. Is that really your position?

My contention is below. The anti's want to censor TV shows because of the misinterpretation of a gun range rule that simply doesn't apply to making a video production.
You have favorite western movies or TV shows that contain reckless gun handling and even people shooting each other. Do you want them censored as the anti's do? Is that really your position?
Maybe you would like there to be a warning flashing on the screen every 30 seconds or so warning all of the innocent little children who may be watching to look away or to go get their parents to turn off the TV?
That's not the America that I live in.

It's a common sense judgement that the gun handling in the video didn't pose a threat to anyone and was totally sanitary. It's just like TV shows & Hollywood, and no one likes to have their media censored when it's supposed to be free for us gun lovers to enjoy too.
Why is it okay for Clint Eastwood to point his guns at anyone he wants to in his movies but not for romel in his video?

Do some folks not want to admit that there's a world of difference between producing an informative Hollywood style video production and the cardinal rules of gun safety while at a gun range?
Do you not like Clint Eastwood movies for some reason or is it just romel's?
Even all of the Star Wars movies were big hits with the kids...:rolleyes:

Pete D.
December 23, 2010, 12:54 PM
Sixshootingsam: Rules are meant to be broken. That's just dead wrong. It's an irrational excuse that allows a person to be sloppy or worse.


MyKeal: 11th post
I will admit that using the short starter or ramrod on a single shot pistol or long rifle puts my hands NEAR the muzzle, and if the gun were to discharge I'm sure they'd be burned. But there wouldn't be a hole through the palm like there would be in the case of the OP's method.

You are being disingenuous there.....or you have a very different definition of what "near" means. Given that a ramrod has to be run all the way down to the powder charge to seat a PRB or a OP card. (I'm looking at my gun here. Running the ramrod down the bore.) for a largish percentage of the time my fingers are directly over the centerline of the bore. Don't see how I could hold on to the rod otherwise.
Pete

ak-kev
December 23, 2010, 03:09 PM
Very nice videos. Thank you for sharing.

romel
December 23, 2010, 04:12 PM
I enjoyed the second video, even more.
I am very new to BP. I have two NAA revolvers, a .22lr and a .22mag. I did not know they made a BP revolver. I'll have to check into them. That may be something I would like to play with.
Thanks again.

Mule
In Spain we have a very strict for firearms and those small NAA of metal cartbritge are not allowed. The weapons with less than 13 cm. between point and upwards are prohibited to civilians....I want to go to USA;)

jcwit
December 23, 2010, 06:48 PM
Two very basic principles we've all heard from the very first day. But hey, since it's necessary to have your hands NEAR - not completely over - the chamber openings for a brief second, well then I guess they don't apply to you guys. You're bullet proof or something, eh? There's a world of difference between using two fingers to unlatch the loading lever and placing your palm over the muzzle, fully covering all five chamber openings; you know that, but hey, it's a good excuse to justify intentionally violating safety rules, so what the heck. What other unsafe practices do you use this to justify?

Do you treat loaded cartridges the same way? After all the loaded cylinder is nothing more than a loaded cylinder, whether black powder or smokeless powder.

I would say you're in much more danger going to and from the range that loading a B/P firearm.

Prairie Dawg
December 23, 2010, 06:51 PM
"so anyhow whats that .36 like shooting? does it have snap like a .357? I have never shot a 44spl but I would imagine it would be in that relm of recoil. "

Actually, sort of like a .22 IMHO.
A .375 round ball only weighs around 80 grains and cap guns are usually quite heavy, so there hardly is any recoil.
--Dawg

lobo9er
December 23, 2010, 09:57 PM
Actually, sort of like a .22 IMHO.


wow, really? i would never have thought that. I may check those out on gunbroker they look like a blast to shot.

mykeal
December 23, 2010, 10:26 PM
Well, this has been a very interesting experience.

I'm constantly amazed at the lengths people will go to to justify unsafe behavior. Everything from changing the argument to one about free speech (!) to just plain saying they don't follow any rules. People seem to believe that the inability to do something perfectly justifies not even trying to do it all: the fact that your hand needs wrap around a ramrod on a muzzle centerline while it's loading a charge justifies placing the center of your palm over a loaded revolver muzzle, an entirely unnecessary action. And one in which the consequences of an AD are much more catastrophic (you'll lose your hand, versus burned fingers or torn flesh on the palm.

I don't really expect to change your minds; all I really want to do is to get you be more aware of your own actions. But it looks like some really don't believe in safety at all - some of its just a bunch of vague mumbo jumbo so obviously it's not important. At best, we'll just pick and choose what rules we'll follow.

romel
December 23, 2010, 10:42 PM
Another of my videos of cargo, on this occasion is another "snubby"a Colt Pocket .31, the audio is in spanish (at the moment is the only language they speak:D:D) feel that does not like the partner Mikeal.....

Greetins....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EqgYQlcfEs

Prairie Dawg
December 23, 2010, 11:08 PM
Lobo9er:
They are a lot of fun to shoot.
In my target shooting days, we would load up a .375 ball with 12 grains FFFg (cap guns are usually most accurate with light loads) and you could shoot it as fast as you could pull the trigger. In Cowboy shooting you can shoot this load as fast as you can move the gun to the next target.
And .36 Navy Colt repros can be had for very little $$.
Too much fun!
--Dawg

kwhi43@kc.rr.com
December 23, 2010, 11:22 PM
I noticed he sticks his toungue out everytime he pushed a ball in.

BHP FAN
December 23, 2010, 11:23 PM
romel, man we must have been seperated twins! I have two of those little NAA black powder revolvers! not the cool grip, though. And my .31 is a Remmie...

SixxshootinSam
December 24, 2010, 12:23 AM
I'm glad your club and all hundreds of its members all do it the same way you do, personally I think even Elmer Keith would laugh at your anal-ness of your precious 'first rule'. Not to mention a confederate/union soldier. You seriously think they were concerned at all times of where their muzzle is pointing in case it might discharge? Ridiculous. We all know for ourselves what we deem safe, I dont need an old man to tell me whats right and wrong. Get off your high horse sir.
Now if you excuse me I have to go into town. I might even not use my turn signal when I exit the driveway, even though that's the rules.

(PS, another fun little movie by Romel, thanks bud. Too bad the guy blatantly disregards rule number 1, imagine that!)

confederatemule
December 24, 2010, 01:07 AM
I don't blame you for wanting to go to the USA, but, it is getting awfully crowded over here.

confederatemule
December 24, 2010, 01:31 AM
Another of my videos of cargo, on this occasion is another "snubby"a Colt Pocket .31, the audio is in spanish (at the moment is the only language they speak:D:D) feel that does not like the partner Mikeal.....

Greetins....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EqgYQlcfEs
Romel, thanks again, for another good video. It is O K that I can't understand the language. I still learned by watching. He did a very good job of demonstrating and showing the different steps and tools he used to load the pistol.

arcticap
December 24, 2010, 02:41 AM
I saw the same .36 Pietta snubbie being loaded by third_rail using the accessory brass ram. He had prepared paper cartridges and after placing one on a chamber mouth, he rotated it into position and then used the surface of a sturdy shooting bench to forcefully push in on the front of the rammer hard enough to seat the ball. That method of using the ram may be more gentle on the hand by allowing a person to bear down on the rammer with some of their body weight instead of only using their open palm.

BHP FAN
December 24, 2010, 01:22 PM
I'd sure like to get one of those brass rammers...mine didn't have it.

kwhi43@kc.rr.com
December 24, 2010, 01:56 PM
Well I am one of the hundreds that shoot on the pistol line at Friendship.
I can assure you that no part of my body is ever over the muzzle of my
loaded revolver, or over the loaded cylinder. If any of us did this we would
be asked to stop or leave. There is a difference in shooting at a organized
shoot at a club, where saftey rules have to be followed and just a bunch of
guys out shooting in the woods where anything goes.

SixxshootinSam
December 24, 2010, 10:09 PM
Interesting... these pics are from the NMLRA Friendship.
[IMG]http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/4380/8387003.th.jpg (http://img145.imageshack.us/i/8387003.jpg/)
[IMG]http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/4380/8387003.th.jpg (http://img638.imageshack.us/i/8387003.jpg/)
[IMG]http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/779/184112.th.jpg (http://img193.imageshack.us/i/184112.jpg/)
:scrutiny:

il_10
December 24, 2010, 10:19 PM
I'd really like to see a video or some pictures of someone loading a BP revolver ( or really any BP firearm, for that matter) without EVER putting some part of his or her body in front of a chamber loaded (partially) with a cap and a ball. I just don't see how that's possible. A loaded chamber on a BP revolver is the same as a loaded barrel... if your hand is on the loading lever then it's physically impossible, as best as I can figure, to not be breaking your own rule. Even a cylinder loader puts your hand above loaded chambers.

To the OP:
very well done, I love it. Do you ever carry it as a defense gun, or is it more or less just for show and range fun?

SC_Slowhand
December 24, 2010, 11:01 PM
Great video. Loved the music. I'm an old Rolling Stones fan from way back but... AC/DC those guys knew how to rock n roll.

kwhi43@kc.rr.com
December 25, 2010, 12:48 AM
Hate to differ, but 2 of those pictures look to me that they were NOT
taken at Friendship. I know because I have been going for 20 years. Those
tables are not there, and the roof is not that color. The one of the lady
looks like Friendship, but not the other two.

romel
December 25, 2010, 09:00 AM
Hate to differ, but 2 of those pictures look to me that they were NOT
taken at Friendship. I know because I have been going for 20 years. Those
tables are not there, and the roof is not that color. The one of the lady
looks like Friendship, but not the other two.
Then they must have given the speakphone because in the if they appear their acronyms..........

junkman_01
December 25, 2010, 09:28 AM
Hate to differ, but 2 of those pictures look to me that they were NOT
taken at Friendship. I know because I have been going for 20 years. Those
tables are not there, and the roof is not that color. The one of the lady
looks like Friendship, but not the other two.
The top two photos are the same and are from the 2008 NMLRA Western Nationals.

Here's one from Friendship(women's weekend April 18-20 2008)...notice the hands!
http://nmlra.org/images/photos/18_428_014.jpg

mykeal
December 25, 2010, 06:16 PM
What I notice in the pictures is that my point is made in all but one. I'm not sure, but I believe the point in posting the pictures was to attempt to dispute my claim that the disciplined and safe shooters at Friendship do not place their hands over the muzzles of their guns when loading. I may be wrong about that, however, since all but one illustrate my point that one's hands do need to be near the muzzle during loading, near enough to be injured, but not OVER THE MUZZLE, so perhaps the poster was conceding the point. You may want to go back and review posts 11:
Now I will admit that using the short starter or ramrod on a single shot pistol or long rifle puts my hands NEAR the muzzle, and if the gun were to discharge I'm sure they'd be burned. But there wouldn't be a hole through the palm like there would be in the case of the OP's method.

and 17:
it's necessary to have your hands NEAR - not completely over - the chamber openings for a brief second,
and 45:
the fact that your hand needs wrap around a ramrod on a muzzle centerline while it's loading a charge justifies placing the center of your palm over a loaded revolver muzzle, an entirely unnecessary action. And one in which the consequences of an AD are much more catastrophic (you'll lose your hand, versus burned fingers or torn flesh on the palm.

Now in the first two pictures the young man in the foreground is using the wrong technique. I can assure you that if the RSO saw that he'd be corrected. There are many, many more shooters at Both Friendship and the Western National that use proper technique, and I'm sure that one of them will provide the young man the help he needs, if it hasn't already happened.

By the way, the man behind the young man is pouring powder out of a measure, not ramming the ball home. If that powder went off he'd get burned but not shot.

Junkman01's picture is an excellent example of the technique I talk about in the previous posts. The lady's hands are in front of the muzzle, but not the centerline. In the event of an AD they would be at least slightly, if not moderately, injured. But they're NOT directly over the center of the barrel like romel's are in the original post. She won't have a catastrophic injury like a hole through her palm. I'm sure you can see the difference.

bprevolver
December 25, 2010, 06:48 PM
Romel, who is the manufacturer of this revolver? Is it Pietta? Traditions just added an 1861 Navy with a Birdshead Grip but not a Snubie. Interestingly they also describe their's as an 1860 Army in their catalog.

junkman_01
December 25, 2010, 07:07 PM
Myke,
That's why I posted it. It's a good example of how it should be done.

kwhi43@kc.rr.com
December 25, 2010, 09:37 PM
A little safety note, On all of my ramrods I use a smooth round ball. So if
I did have a discharge while ramming the ball down, the round ball would
push my hand out of the way. All my rifle and pistol rods are this way. It
really scares me to see the guys with the antler horn on their ramrods. Can
you imiagine that ragged horn ripping through your hand!! Ouch!!!

romel
December 26, 2010, 08:24 AM
Romel, who is the manufacturer of this revolver? Is it Pietta? Traditions just added an 1861 Navy with a Birdshead Grip but not a Snubie. Interestingly they also describe their's as an 1860 Army in their catalog.
This gun is Pietta, in its catalog on-line comes in caliber .44 but also have in .36

romel
December 26, 2010, 08:32 AM
Someone i can give information about the history of this gun? I have read that was used by the police of Utah....would appreciate any information or photos because i want to write an article about it in my blog
a greeting

Prairie Dawg
December 26, 2010, 04:28 PM
Romel:
I've read that Avenging Angels were names given to the cut down 1860s used by the Mormon Death squads back in the 19th century.
The death squads were also called Avenging Angels from what I've read.

They certainly were used for personal protection by folks who wanted more power than a pocket pistol could provide.

Here is a link to a photo, taken at a gun show, of some authentic Avenging Angels. Some are 1860s & some are 1851s.
One looks to be a dragoon.
http://www.dakotaskipper.net/ebay/snubbiesa.jpg

Here is a link to an article from an old American Rifleman magazine:
http://www.dakotaskipper.net/ebay/snubbie_article_1.jpg%20%28JPEG...pdf
&
http://www.dakotaskipper.net/ebay/snubbie_article_2.jpg%20%28JPEG...pdf

--Dawg

StrawHat
December 26, 2010, 06:22 PM
Here are two of mine, an 1860 and a Walker. Of the two, I much prefer carrying the 1860.

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc194/StrawHat/1860Snubbieyetagain003.jpg

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc194/StrawHat/IMGP1003.jpg

And a group shot with a Pocket Police included.

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc194/StrawHat/IMGP1450.jpg

I have heard about the cut down Colts and saw the same writeups as P'Dawg. Long before the companies offered them I did what was done back in the day and cut my 1860 down. The Walker was cut by someone else and bought with the thought to install a new barrel but I actually enjoy the way the 5" barrel handles, just don't like lugging it around. Definately not a belt or hideout revolver.

Jaymo
December 27, 2010, 01:58 AM
Funny thing is, I'm not crazy about any method of loading any of my black powder remote-control drills.
I don't like putting my hand(s) in from of any barrel or cylinder.
That said, I load the revolver cylinders prior to shooting, and leave them uncapped until I'm ready to shoot.
I want to make a mushroom headed range rod for my Colonial and Howdah pistols. Don't like the factory rods much.
Already have a ball-ended range rod for my rifles.

I retract my previous post due to the fact that this is turning into a huge urinating contest.

Nice video. I like your snubbie. I've thought about chopping the barrel of my .36 '51 Navy.
Maybe I'll just get a short barrel for my .44 '51 Navy, instead.

I believe in being absolutely safe with anything that is potentially dangerous.

romel
December 27, 2010, 06:34 AM
Romel:
I've read that Avenging Angels were names given to the cut down 1860s used by the Mormon Death squads back in the 19th century.
The death squads were also called Avenging Angels from what I've read.

They certainly were used for personal protection by folks who wanted more power than a pocket pistol could provide.

Here is a link to a photo, taken at a gun show, of some authentic Avenging Angels. Some are 1860s & some are 1851s.
One looks to be a dragoon.
http://www.dakotaskipper.net/ebay/snubbiesa.jpg

Here is a link to an article from an old American Rifleman magazine:
http://www.dakotaskipper.net/ebay/snubbie_article_1.jpg%20%28JPEG...pdf
&
http://www.dakotaskipper.net/ebay/snubbie_article_2.jpg%20%28JPEG...pdf

--Dawg
Thanks for the info

kBob
December 27, 2010, 09:18 AM
Strawhat's 1860 bears a strong resemblence to a revolver attributed to Orin Porter Rockwell who was one of the earliest converts to the Church of Jesus Christ of LDS and boy hood friend of Joseph Smith. Porter became Joseph Smith's body guard and was a body guard of Brigham Young. He also blazed trails from Utah to California and lead pioneer companies to the west .

Some called him and his revolvers Morman Angels or Avenging Angels and some made accusations like those meantioned here about "death squads"

Porter served as a deputy Marshal most of his life and worked as a scout for the US Army and as a US mail Carrier...... not jobs one would expect of someone that really was a member of a "death squad"

A photo of his sawn off 1860 is on page xxxiv of the illustration section of "Stories from the Life of Porter Rockwell" by John W. Rockwell and Jery Borrowman from Covenant Communications of American Fork, Utah, May,
2010. ISBN 978-1-60861-005-1

There were originally four body guards and they were certainly colorful characters, at least one of them being excommunicated later in life. Most of the stories attributed to them in the anti-morman press of the times were not as well researched or vetted as your typical supermarket tabloid stories about aliens or big foot of today.

On atleast one occassion Porter used one of his snubbies to shoot through his coat pocket to shoot a man holding him at gunpoint and threatening to murder him. I imagine it must have been interesting to fire a BP revolver from a coat pocket, what with the flame and blast.

In the early 1980's I was doing an article on the S&W Bodyguard .38 Special and as one of its supposed attributes is that it can be fired like Porter's revolver from with in a coat pocket I had to try this. I had a sort of spoungy fabric zippered hoody from Sears that was a bit long in the tooth and so donated it to the cause ( and my publisher refused to replace any coat or jacket I shot up for some reason) and loaded the S&W up dropped it into a pocket and advanced to 3 meters from the manshaped target. Instructing my photographer to watch the pocket, NOT THE TARGET, and try to get a photo or two, I blazed away with three quick shots......before pain distracted me. Note to folks, streach polyester and blazing .38 Specials do not mix well. The pocket area of the jacket burst into flame breifly and melted over my hand and the revolver. Lost the hair on my hand and had like a bad sunburn from my shirt cuff down. The revolver cleaned up nicely though and the target had three good center hits. The photographer was staring at the target the entire time and got not one photo, but more importantly did not tell me I was ON FIRE. Darned shutter bugs.

I am however loath to repeat the experiment, especially with BP, for some reason.

-kBob

kBob
December 27, 2010, 09:33 AM
The linked article was interesting with the speculation that the guns found at Wells Fargo were factory modifications.

As to the Morman guns however.....note that Brigham Young specifically instructed one John Browning (father of John Moses Browning) to emigrate to Utah with his tools and equipment from Browning Brother's gunshop. Might be a bit hard to tell the work of John Browning from factory work, if he did those kinds of modifications.

Oh and Porter Rockwell occassionally worked as a stage coach guard when gold was being shipped....perhaps a Wells Fargo link there.

I do find it interesting that the front sights of some of the guns from the AR article and the picture of Porter's gun could have been drifted for windage adjustments and naturally the blades could have been trimmed for elevatin adjustments. Dispite the comment by the AR article's auther about the uslessness of sights on such guns , they may have offered better point of aim/point of impact at reasonable fighting ranges than their longer un modified brothers.

-kBob

confederatemule
December 27, 2010, 10:49 AM
''Note to folks, streach polyester and blazing .38 Specials do not mix well. The pocket area of the jacket burst into flame breifly and melted over my hand and the revolver. Lost the hair on my hand and had like a bad sunburn from my shirt cuff down."

I am fairly sure that this Porter feller did not wear Polyester clothing. Your experiment might have meant something if you had worn clothing made from material of the time period of Porter.

lobo9er
December 27, 2010, 06:53 PM
whats the legalities of carrying these? since they arent "firearms" in the eyes of the BATF i dont need to put them on my pistol permit in order to buy one, but what If i decide to carry it after it has a primer and thus being turned into a firearm in the eyes of the BATF, then what? hmmm great laws.
STRAWHAT - those are very cool really like the top one posing with the watch!

mykeal
man give it up or make a video on how YOU load your muzzle loaders. You are kinda getting loopy you cant argue the pictures and some how you are. You seem to have a technique that no one elses knows about and you feel everyone else is in danger so please make a video if you can . I am new to muzzle loaders and if there is a way to be safer i would like to know it but I believe you were just trying to make a point and be a downer to the OP video.

Tommygunn
December 27, 2010, 08:25 PM
whats the legalities of carrying these? since they arent "firearms" in the eyes of the BATF i dont need to put them on my pistol permit in order to buy one, but what If i decide to carry it after it has a primer and thus being turned into a firearm in the eyes of the BATF, then what? hmmm great laws.
Woah there, pardner.... just because Fed law may say that it doesn't mean you can carry with impunity. The Fed law has to do with how guns are shipped but cities, counties, and towns have laws and you NEED TO FIND OUT WHAT THOSE LAWS ARE WHERE YOU LIVE!

BCRider
December 27, 2010, 11:08 PM
Lobo9er, in addition to the warning to check your own area I also think that you'll find that if carried or used as if it were a "real" firearm that you'd soon find that the law would convert the status of your BP non firearm to that of a real firearm based on how you are carrying it with intention to use as a self defense armament. I'd suggest that you want to read all the laws about BP arms with that in mind as well as the suggestion to check out your state and even city ordinances.

kBob
December 27, 2010, 11:10 PM
CSA Mule,

The test was of the anilities of the S&W bodyguard with 1980s clothingn in 1984 for an article for CFV publishing. I was a saleried editor and writer for them at the time. Pay me and I will spell check and grammer check unlike in my posts here abouts.

Still not sure I would want to set off a .44 BP snubbie revolver in an oiled canvas duster pocket.

Fireing a revolver inside a paper bag was interesting and I once fired a small .22 auto in a plastic ziplock baggie and a Remington Double derrenger style pistol from inside a baggie.. Sometimes I am just curious. Fired through a few of the plastic muzzle covers for M-16A1 rifles as well ( hit a knock down target at 100 meters through one)

I rather liked the curved birds head style grip from the linked article. Sometime back a couiple of guys on THR BP were discussing attempting to make such and I have been patierntly waiting to see what they get.

-kBob

Prairie Dawg
December 27, 2010, 11:30 PM
Kbob:
Is this what you were referring to?

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=294765

Dawg

confederatemule
December 27, 2010, 11:50 PM
KBob,
I have never fired a BP gun of any kind, but, judging from the videos and photos I have seen, I'd say you are braver/tougher than me.
I have 4 BP pistols and do plan on shooting them soon. As soon as I get the equipment necessary to load them.

Romel, thanks for this thread and for allowing so many of us to sort of high jack it.

Mule

Pete D.
December 28, 2010, 06:57 AM
+1 about the need to research local laws.
My first ML was shipped to me when I lived in NYC. All legal. The gun itself was OK. The way the law read, however, was that if I had the gun and the means to load it, then it was a firearm and needed a permit. The gun didn't have to be loaded even.
Back to the "technique" argument for a moment and about that picture of "correct" technique:
The lady's hands are in front of the muzzle, but not the centerline. In the event of an AD they would be at least slightly, if not moderately, injured......
I agree that the technique looks fine but......if anyone of y'all thinks that her hand is not over the centerline of the bore, then you have a very different concept of geometry than I do and of what "over the centerline" means. if she's OK, then a lot of the argument was at cross purposes.

Pete

BHP FAN
December 28, 2010, 07:42 AM
''this is my snubby, this is my gun...'' LOL! Lighten up, people!

madcratebuilder
December 28, 2010, 07:55 AM
Nice vid's romel, well done! This is for you.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d37/madcratebuilder/NAABP.jpg

BHP FAN
December 28, 2010, 11:17 AM
Nice! I have a pair of the Super Companions ...

kBob
December 28, 2010, 01:49 PM
Prairie Dawg,

Thanks for the link. Actually there was something more recent and the guys were going to try bending up a brass back strtap.

-kBob

romel
December 28, 2010, 09:33 PM
Nice vid's romel, well done! This is for you.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d37/madcratebuilder/NAABP.jpg
Thank you for the photo madcratebuilder, i also had one of those but you change the grips....

kameron1858
December 30, 2010, 10:12 PM
whare can i get one!!! did you have it shortend or can you buy it like that. looks like a great gift for the wife :)

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