740 fps 45 Colt


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dashootist
December 24, 2010, 10:27 PM
Chronograph shows 740 fps out of 5" 45 Colt Uberti. That's for a 250 grain hard cast bullet with beeswax and virgin olive oil. Powder is 3F Shuetzen. I realize it's a bit slow compared to historical ballistics. How would this be for man stopper? Does it have enough penetration against thickly jacketed thugs and home invaders?

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zxcvbob
December 24, 2010, 10:31 PM
That's about the same as .45 ACP hardball, but a little heavier bullet. I wouldn't stand in front of it.

Horace Hogsnort
December 28, 2010, 03:39 AM
Those were the very same ballistics that put down a number of hombres (good and bad) in the old west subsequent to 1873. Ya don't want to be in the way when that chunk of lead gets where its going. ;)

Oyeboten
December 28, 2010, 07:32 AM
Hi dashootist,


That would be a helluva whallop for anyone to catch..!


With a Balloon-Head Cartridge Case, 'Swiss' Powder, and good compression, you'd be well into the 8s most likely.

Jim Watson
December 28, 2010, 10:24 AM
That's about .45 Government (S&W, Schofield) performance; also in the FA 1909 range.
Not weak even though the Internet Age tends to disregard anything subsonic.

More importantly, what is your situation that you would consider black powder handloads for "thickly jacketed thugs and home invaders?"

Loyalist Dave
December 29, 2010, 04:52 PM
The cartridge stems from the era when they relied on mass more than velocity, and folks did a lot of "field testing" so if it wouldn't really work..., it would've been replaced. It lasted as a LE cartridge for more than a century, so what you have will work no worries.

I don't know how silly your civil courts are, but here in the People's Republic of Maryland, I would not shoot a BG in SD with anything less than a factory load. Lawyers here (and maybe where you are) will try and make it seem that you handloaded a nuclear/kryptonite/cyanide round, and their misunderstood and "harmless" client would not be dead or maimed had you simply used an OTC cartridge. Yes it's BS, but even if you won such a suit, it would cost you $$. Now if you used an OTC black powder load, that might be good..., "You defended yourself with an antique round from a replica obsolete handgun, and not with a modern, lethal round."

LD

Foto Joe
December 29, 2010, 06:48 PM
According to your numbers, you're getting about 304 ft. lbs. of energy at the muzzle. Definitely not something that I want to get hit with.

You failed to mention "how much" Shuetzen you used, I'm curious.

I've chronographed a few 45 Colt loads and have more to do but here's some numbers.

40gr 3f Swiss, 235 RNFP with a .060 veggie wad over powder. Fired out of a S.A.A. Clone with a 12" barrel.
1,065 fps with a muzzle energy of 592 ft. lb.

35gr 3f Swiss, 140gr Round Ball, cornmeal filler & .060 veggie wad, same gun.
1,143 fps with a muzzle enerty of 406 ft. lb.

I've basically cut back to "Gallery Loads" now with only 20gr of 3f Swiss and a 150gr conical bullet. These make great plinking loads as they don't eat so much powder but I haven't chronographed them yet, maybe this weekend.

Bottom line is though, if you're looking for a self defense round my suggestion is a 12 gauge with a pistol grip. Barring that, I'd probably find some Glazer Safety Slugs (http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/index.php?manufacturers_id=31) in 45 Colt. It's your life on the line if you use that gun for defense, historical accuracy ceases to be important the moment the guns clears leather.

J-Bar
December 29, 2010, 07:36 PM
"I don't know how silly your civil courts are, but here in the People's Republic of Maryland, I would not shoot a BG in SD with anything less than a factory load. Lawyers here (and maybe where you are) will try and make it seem that you handloaded a nuclear/kryptonite/cyanide round, and their misunderstood and "harmless" client would not be dead or maimed had you simply used an OTC cartridge. Yes it's BS, but even if you won such a suit, it would cost you $$. Now if you used an OTC black powder load, that might be good..., "You defended yourself with an antique round from a replica obsolete handgun, and not with a modern, lethal round."

I have read this on other posts and threads. Is it really true, or is this an urban legend?

I am not a lawyer. I am admitting my ignorance. Can anyone post a reference to a trial in which a person who defended themselves with any kind of handloaded ammunition was prosecuted, or otherwise placed at a legal disadvantage, by using that handloaded ammunition?

I am not arguing...I am trying to learn and establish facts.

Loyalist Dave
December 30, 2010, 09:02 AM
This warning I recieved from a very prominent civil attorney here in Maryland. I took his word for it. Please remember at some point every liability was a "first case", so even if you cannot find one to fit this scenario, it does not mean you are not risking higher liability, nor would it shield you from being the first case where you live.

LD

highlander 5
December 30, 2010, 09:45 AM
The above is moot if your state has a castle law. Sheilds you from civil litigation.
There have been no cases where type of ammo was a factor in a SD case with the excepton of Harry Fish and that was for caliber type not factory or handloads.

dashootist
December 30, 2010, 11:19 PM
Foto Joe,
I don't know how many grains, but I filled the cartridge full of 3F Shutlzen using a 2-foot drop tube. Actually, I love to shoot this load. Recoil is very benign. Even beginning shooters thought it didn't kick much. And it's very accurate. 2-inch group at 25 yards, almost as good as my modern S&W 357. I feel the most comfortable shooting this Uberti SAA. That's why I keep it in the draw for home defense.

Loyalist Dave,
I'm in Texas. We get medals for shooting home invaders. Just kidding.

Foto Joe
December 30, 2010, 11:34 PM
I don't know how many grains, but I filled the cartridge full of 3F Shutlzen using a 2-foot drop tube.

Without using a compression die, I would guess that you've probably got between 30 to 35 grains in a full 45 Colt brass as I'm assuming that Shuetzen is probably slightly lighter than the Swiss. I do know that 40gr of 3f Swiss smarts with a 235gr RNFP in front of it when it goes off. It's comparable to a hot .357 Mag in my uneducated opinion.

I need to get motivated with my chronograph and figure the ballistics on more Black Powder cartridge loads as well as the front stuffers. I have a tendency to use an 1860 Sheriff's Model for a carry gun on the bike, which probably isn't the best but the thing will fire just about as fast as a DA without cap fouling or causing me problems, at least when my life isn't on the line.

kameron1858
December 30, 2010, 11:56 PM
the nice thing about a six gun is if the first one dont kill'em the next five will:evil:

dashootist
December 31, 2010, 01:27 AM
It just occur to me I had to move back a couple yards back from the chronograph because the smoke was affecting the sensors. I guess I was about 7 to 10 yards back. Don't know how much velocity drop there is in 7 yards.

Foto Joe
December 31, 2010, 12:50 PM
It just occur to me I had to move back a couple yards back from the chronograph because the smoke was affecting the sensors. I guess I was about 7 to 10 yards back. Don't know how much velocity drop there is in 7 yards.

I use a Chrony with a remote that I think is on a 15 foot hook-up. I usually set the remote on the tailgate and stretch the Chrony out to the end of its leash. I did figure out that if you take that clear packing tape and just tear a bit off the roll, you can cover your sensors with the tape without affecting the Chrony. After I'd done this, I then read the directions and found the same suggestion in the directions.

As far as the velocity drop, for my purposes it wouldn't be a factor. I make the assumption that "any" black powder round is going to be fired about ten feet from the instrument. It would be interesting to know the ballistics at 25 yards, but until I find a bullet proof Chrony I'll just have to live without that knowledge.

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