7.7 arisaka, any interchangeables?


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Dreamcast270mhz
December 28, 2010, 12:04 AM
I have seen many T99 Arisakas in shootable condition for less than $100 recently. The only thing that troubles me is bullet cost. I have heard from multiple sources that you can use .303, 7.62x54 in these rifles with no detrimental effects. Is this true? and if so, is there a certain type I should use (I can get any ammo , preferably non-corrosive however, so that eliminates most 7.62MN surplus as suitable)

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Rancho Relaxo
December 28, 2010, 12:09 AM
Do you mean the cartridge is interchangeable with 7.62x54R or just the same diameter bullet? Cartridge is definitely not interchangeable!

rondog
December 28, 2010, 12:22 AM
But the bullets are. The 7.7 Jap is what, .310-.312 range, same as the .303 and 7.62x54R? And you can modify .30-06 brass into 7.7 Jap pretty easily too. I haven't tried it yet, I've got everything to do it but the 7.7 dies. There's a tutorial about it at surplusrifles.com

Dreamcast270mhz
December 28, 2010, 12:29 AM
I think I did not make my question clear, I want to know if I can fire anything in an arisaka Type 99 but the standard bullets it uses, like the way a 7.62x51 can fire a .308 and vice versa...

Shadow 7D
December 28, 2010, 01:33 AM
um, no, use the right round, it cuts down on the KABOOMS

Unless you want to move this to reloading, in which case, I believe there are a number of rimed cartridges that can provide part parent brass to reform into 7.7jap

Shadow 7D
December 28, 2010, 01:34 AM
Um, Dream, 308 IS 7.62nato, much like .223 and 5.56, the only difference is that a 'military' chamber is considered to be looser and a bit hotter

R.W.Dale
December 28, 2010, 01:41 AM
The only cartridge a type 99 in factory condition can fire is 7.7x58 Japanese

Anything else is working on a nomination for the Darwin award.

zoom6zoom
December 28, 2010, 02:26 AM
I want to know if I can fire anything in an arisaka Type 99 but the standard bullets it uses, like the way a 7.62x51 can fire a .308 and vice versa...
Dream, I think your use of the terminology is messing folks up here.

I believe you are referring to the cartridge. The entire shiny thing that you load into the rifle.

A bullet is just the pointy bit ("projectile") that comes out the front at high speed.

The basic answer is no, there is no other off the shelf cartridge that can be fired in your Arisaka.

M91/30
December 28, 2010, 02:35 AM
Honestly it looks like you just want something to shoot, buy a mosin nagant, the ammo is dirt cheap, readily available, and a blast to shoot. There fairly accurate(depending on how good a rifle you get) and there cheap!

http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=F3MOSIN9130
http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=A76254R&name=Russian+7.62x54R+147grn+FMJ+440rd+Can&groupid=186

zhyla
December 28, 2010, 02:47 AM
You could have a gunsmith rechamber a Type 99 in .30-06. I have one that this has been done to and it works fine, though I have accuracy issues (the completely rusted bore doesn't help this).

BHP FAN
December 28, 2010, 03:21 AM
30-06 bore is .308, 7.7 is .311. The Viet Cong reportedly had some Arisakas redone to 7.62 x39 [.311 bullet size], but you'd be buggering up a collectable, when as others have pointed out, you could just get a $99.00 Mosin Nagant from Big Five, and shoot cheap and available surplus ammo [7.62 x54r] which just makes more sense. You could trade the Arisaka or sell it for $300.00 and buy three Mosin Nagants, or just one and a boat load of ammo....

GCBurner
December 28, 2010, 10:21 AM
You could have a gunsmith rechamber a Type 99 in .30-06. I have one that this has been done to and it works fine, though I have accuracy issues (the completely rusted bore doesn't help this).
I remember an anecdote from an article about sporterizing military surplus rifles where the author had bought an Arisaka rechambered in .30-06 by some neighborhood "gunsmith". The owner wasn't happy with it because "it kicks real hard, and isn't very accurate." The guy bought it as a project to rebarrel, so he wasn't too concerned about its current accuracy, but when his 'smith went to remove the old barrel, they found that instead of a 7.7mm Model 99, what he actually had was the older 6.5mm Jap chambering. The former owner had been shooting .308 bullets down a .264 bore; no wonder it kicked like Hell, and shot all over the place. It does go to show that the Arisaka actions are plenty strong, though.

Carl N. Brown
December 28, 2010, 10:53 AM
Back in the 1950s it was common around here to have war trophy Japanese 7.7 rifles rechamered to fire .30-06. (A few folks did reload the empty cartridges using .311-.312 bullets intended for .303 Brit or 7.62 Russian which is a better fit for the 7.7mm bore.)

MMCSRET
December 28, 2010, 01:30 PM
I picked up a very nicely sporterized 7.7 some years back for 25$. I bought a set of Lee dies and never looked back. I had a 5 gallon bucket of clean, shiny FA 58 Match 30-06 cases and I went to work. That rifle shoots as good as any I've ever owned, I load the Hornady 150 gr., .312 Spire Point and load it with surplus 4895 loaded to about 2500 FPS. It is a fine rifle, easy to shoot, easy to load for and looks good. Only drawback is the safety, its essentially impossible to work with a scope mounted on the receiver.

rondog
December 28, 2010, 02:03 PM
The basic answer is no, there is no other off the shelf cartridge that can be fired in your Arisaka.

This is your bottom-line answer. The Type 99 rifle requires 7.7x58 Japanese ammo. No other cartridges will work.

Now, you can make your own 7.7x58 Jap ammo by modifying .30-06 brass and using the correct size bullets, but that's another story.

ChronoCube
December 28, 2010, 03:35 PM
Where are you finding them for under $100? :)

clutch
December 28, 2010, 03:49 PM
The 7.7 x 58 is .473 at case head. The 30-06 is .470 at the case head. I've heard people say you can get away with reforming .30-06 but I've never really wanted to try it. I have two type 99's, one that I've shot and another that I have not. I purchased Norma ammo and used that. My type 99 has a large bore and will keyhole .311 bullets at 100 yards.

I bought a lyman 314299 mold once thinking shooting cast would be the ticket but it generates bullets undersized. I don't want to lap out the mold since I have a number of SMLE's.

Fwiw, other than last ditch arisaka's, they are a very solid firearm where an oops may not be as bad as other rifles. That is if we can trust the words of Col. Hatcher. See Hatchers Notebook.

Clutch

hiawatha
December 28, 2010, 04:46 PM
1. I have not seen T99 Arisakas in complete condition, let alone shootable, for under $100 in many years. Sub-$100 Mosin-Nagants are another story. There's a gun show in Springdale, AR, January 29-30. There will be Mosins there for probably $89-$99.

2. No other cartridge is safe to shoot in a 7.7 Arisaka but the 7.7x58, which, incidentally, is not rimmed, nor even semi-rimmed like the 6.5x50.

3. I know of no source of 7.7x58 surplus ammo. If you know of any, please let me know and loan me your credit card! :evil:

4. 7.7x58 ammo is not too hard to find now. Norma makes it with a 174 gr bullet, but it's expensive (~$38/box). Hornady also makes it occasionally, more like ~$26/box. Vendors at gun shows frequently have it. But reloading is almost essential for 7.7 because the supply does sometimes dry up, and because it's not cheap anyway.

5. In addition to .303 British and 7.62x54R, the 7.65x53 Mauser uses the same bullet (not cartridge).

6. I got a T99 in a trade at a show a while ago. It had an intact mum and appeared to be complete for a 7th Series Nagoya, except about an inch and a half of the front end of the stock had been shot or burned off. The metal was all there, though. I got it home and put a 7.7 round in the chamber. It rolled around loose and fell out. So I thought someone had rechambered it to .30-06; that's not an unusual modification. I put a .30-06 round in the chamber, and it went in too far! I began wondering if someone had rechambered and maybe rebored it to take the 8mm Swedish machine gun round! Anyway, I took it to a gunsmith, who made a chamber cast. Sure enough, someone had tried to rechamber it to .30-06, but used a drill, not a reamer. The chamber was ruined. The gunsmith had a T99 barrel, so I had him put it on and headspace it. His barrel was chrome-lined. Mine wasn't, as the chrome barrels were discontinued before Series 7. Since the rifle was now no longer "original," I also got a new stock from Numrich. Voila! A brand-new T99! So If you encounter a T99 (or a T38, for that matter), look out!

http://hiawatha.parallaxscurioandrelicfirearmsforums.yuku.com/photos/view/pid/639136

Dreamcast270mhz
December 28, 2010, 05:17 PM
Okay, NP. I'll get a Mosin Nagant instead, I was considering that anyways, I just was attracted to the durable actions and history they had. Sorry for wrong terminology, I've just gotten into guns recently after a few vintage rifles made thier way into my house... And recently a few WWII vets died near me, had an estate sale where three t99, one last ditch others were not, all in fair condition (all had no mum and a bit of rust) and all three were sold for under $100 each ( nobody there knew their worth apparrently.. )

hiawatha
December 28, 2010, 07:27 PM
I wouldn't bet against the buyers having known what those T99s were worth!:D

BrocLuno
January 3, 2011, 01:04 PM
Me either - fun gun and ammo is available from Graf & Son on a semi-regular basis :)

8mmman
January 3, 2011, 07:44 PM
I pull down and reduce the powder from the 7.62x54r ammo and reuse their bullets and powder all the time in my 7.7 rifles. Works very well. I get the best accuracy with the 154 grain silver tip BT bullets. The 182 gain yellow tip shoot fine but not as good as the 154 grain bullets.

Buy your brass from Graf and have fun.

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