Please Recommend a Target Grade 22LR and Optic


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HD Fboy
January 3, 2011, 11:54 AM
First off this is not for competition. I am 52 and the eyes can't go there anymore! It is a play gun.

I do want a gun better than me. (that didn't narrow the field much! HA!)

Bolt action is fine, but I do want a magazine feed if possible. Simi Auto would be preferred, but I do not want to limit my options. I do want a tack driver.

I also need a optic for 25M to 100M, and with my eyes I need more than 4-5X.

I want to keep the budget here below $1500, $1,000 would be better.

Suggestions on ammo for the gun would also be appreciated.

THANKS!!!

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NRA-Highmaster
January 3, 2011, 12:10 PM
Anschutz 1903 with a decent scope should fit the bill.

BrocLuno
January 3, 2011, 12:25 PM
I think a nice used Remington 513 TargetMaster or a 40 series would do. Even an older Mossberg 44 CMP might do. Certainly a CMP Kimber 22 will do fine.

My suggestions are based on shooting some of these and knowing that distance shooting with a .22 is a lot of factors. A classic tight sling "a la" any of the CMP military training rifles will help a bunch for off-hand. They might need a bit of gunsmith work as in trigger tune and check over, but they are all more accurate than you or me.

You can build a tack driver out of modern parts or a whole gun, but it will still take input to fit it to your physique and shooting preferences. The Anschutz may come as close as possible to a new "fits all" platform, but I have not shot that rifle, so I can't say. I have shot against that rifle and I know it will out-shoot almost all trigger men. But so will the others I listed.

So much of this is mental and training/practice that building your own rifle from a starting gun is part of getting it to be what you want. Screwing it together (with help if needed) lets you get a feel for the gun, even before the range time starts.

The scope should be 6x~12x or better with AO. Others will help there as I'm not current on .22 scopes for target work. I did buy a new 22 Nikon for one of Browning auto's (a Miroku) a while back and it's fine, but is not what you are looking for.

You don't say if you'll be hunting with it too? Squirrels?

PzGren
January 3, 2011, 12:34 PM
I am as old as you are and had no use for a scope on my rifles until a few years ago, when I had to admit that my eyesight was degrading.

There are many nice .22 l.r. rifles out there that will be of great quality and accuracy, like the CZ, Anschütz, Sakos, Coopers etc. I settled for bolt actions and fell in love with Anschütz rifles built on the 54 action. While the target rifles are unbeatable for serious competition, they barely resemble and balance like a weapon.

So, my quest for the perfect .22 rifle got me into buying an Anschütz 1423 Stutzen and a 1422 rifle. I had a few older German scopes laying around and put a Hensoldt 4x32 on the Stutzen and a Swarovski 6x42 on the 1422 (though it has a Hensoldt Diatal mounted in the photo).

I really love the guns, they are great for plinking and hunting. For target/benchrest shootin a different scope might be better suited but would hardly be period correct for the guns that I marveled at when I was a kid. I enjoy owning these fine rifles, shooting, and caring for them until I will pass them on to my sons. A worthwile inheritance:)...

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z159/Andyd173/DSCF4572.jpg

HD Fboy
January 3, 2011, 12:55 PM
No, this is a new area for me. I love my 10-22 and Ruger Mark II for hunting.

This will be for the range only.

I would enjoy the assembly process but aside from some minor work on the AR's and breaking down the 10-22's and pistols I don't have any real gunsmith experience.

The ranges where I shoot are as follows (Max)- my indoor range is 25 yards and the outdoor is 200 yards.

If I build it up from parts I will need lots of help from you guys!!

red rick
January 3, 2011, 01:03 PM
I would look at the Savage Mark II line and a Leupold VX I 2-7x 33 scope. It will do all you want it to do for less than $500.00.

If you want pretty, than a Browning or CZ.

PzGren
January 3, 2011, 01:07 PM
HD Fboy,

you owe yourself a nice, troublefree rifle to be proud of. If you do not need more than a round at the time, the old Anschütz 1407s can be bought at low prices and they perform quite well.

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z159/Andyd173/54Match.jpg

...and by the way, with those steel sights on, I still do not need a scope!

BrocLuno
January 3, 2011, 01:08 PM
Yeah, but part of the fun is shopping. Be on the look-out for any of the guns listed here. If you spot one, look it over carefully. It's complete and in reasonable shape, go for it. There are a zillion 22 shooters out there and we all have spares and bits around. You never know, you might get a real nice shooter for the cost of project gun :)

Do you have a gunsmith local to you that you get along with well?

HD Fboy
January 3, 2011, 01:12 PM
No luck on gunsmith in my parts. We have some smiths but none are considered good.

Red Tornado
January 3, 2011, 01:12 PM
Lots of great bolt action options. If you want a semi-auto, a Ruger 10/22 build is probably your best bet. With that budget, you should be able to build a tack driving semi with no problem.
Check the 10/22 forums on RFC http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/ for all the info you could ever need.
RT

GunTech
January 3, 2011, 03:28 PM
If you want something a little different, accurate as all get out, and with an amazing 2 stage trigger for not a lot of money, look at one of the biathlon models from Russian American Armory. My Biathlon Basic shoots as well as my 1413 Anschutz. And the toggle action is cool.

Of course it lacks a lot in the fit and finish department - typical Russian exterior. But it has it where it counts.

http://guntech.com/rimfire/bb.jpg

http://guntech.com/rimfire/bb-action.jpg

Coal Dragger
January 3, 2011, 03:49 PM
The suggestions to purchase an Anschutz are good ones, although fitting in your budget may or may not be doable depending on what you are able to find.

Another suggestion might be the Weatherby MKII which is an Anchutz barreled action in a Weahterby stock. They have a reputation for good accuracy.

Of course you could also step outside of your self imposed budget a bit and consider a Cooper Arms. They make a variety of single shot and repeater bolt action rimfires in sporter weight to target/varmint weights and stock styles. All of them are beautiful family heirloom quality firearms. They don't leave the factory until they print a .25" 5 shot group at 50 yards for rimfires. I believe they use Lapua Midas for accuracy testing.

As for scopes it is hard to go wrong with a Leupold in a magnification of your choosing with an adjustable objective which will be important for shooting at closer ranges.

JDMorris
January 3, 2011, 04:22 PM
I like Marlin Model 60 .22's because I have killed ALOT of squirrels with them over the years, You know where I stand on scopes.

Red Tornado
January 3, 2011, 04:39 PM
If you want to go with a bolt, I'll second Guntech's suggestion for the Biathlon Basic. They've got quite a following at RFC, by basically everyone who's shot one.
Here are a few reviews on it.
RT

http://www.6mmbr.com/izhmashbasic.html

http://www.airgunbbs.com/archive/index.php/t-49166.html


http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=40802

http://riflesandrants.blogspot.com/2010/03/my-first-gun-post-will-concern-izhmash.html

BrocLuno
January 3, 2011, 05:07 PM
Yeah, I forgot that cool Russian gun - I always wanted one, but never got around to it - maybe I will :)

Magoo
January 3, 2011, 06:07 PM
I'll add a second for the 10/22 minority vote. Definitely check out rimfirecentral for talk about 10/22s and every other make.

Also check out http://www.coolguyguns.com/index.html. Tony is reportedly (his wife told me so last week) going to be offering full builds again starting in the next couple of months. You'd have to get in line, though.

The Mueller APV is quite popular with the rimfire crowd and I just picked up a new one for $120.

rr2241tx
January 3, 2011, 06:18 PM
Get a rusty Kimber from CMP

http://www.thecmp.org/22targetsurplus.htm

HD Fboy
January 3, 2011, 06:43 PM
Well after spending some time at rimfire central I am gong to start with the 10/22 I already have. I ordered a Kidd Single Stage Trigger and am looking at barrels and optics now. Undecided on a stock, I may just stay with the stock stock.

Thanks everyone.

Lovesbeer99
January 3, 2011, 07:38 PM
I like a 10/22 with a Green Mountain Running Bore barrel, target trigger and sear. Stock options are endless.

If you want an out of the box gun my buddy just got a Savage Mk II with a target barrel and target sights from CMP and with wolf ammo it put 10 rounds in 1 ragged whole at 50 yards. The accue-trigger is sweet.

There are plenty of used Mossbergs, Savages, Marlins and Remingtons out there at good prices.

A few years ago I bought Marlin 2000 and I use it to shoot quarters at 100 yards with wolf ammo.

Scope - I had some success with the Bushnell Target/Varmint. It has an adjustable objective and on a bright sunny day (the only days I shoot) its been great.

Magoo
January 3, 2011, 07:50 PM
I know you said you already ordered a Kidd single stage, but there are a couple of two stagers up for sale on RFC for $250.

If it interests ya, let me know so I can "tell" ya which of the two to buy. One of the guys will buy a TacSol barrel off of me if his sells ;).

stsimons
January 3, 2011, 07:54 PM
No gun recommendation from me, but I do have a scope recommendation.

Nikon Buckmasters 6-18X40, side focus, mil dot (available only from Midway USA), not that I am pushing Midway, but this is a smaller production scope with GREAT glass, two sets of turrets and a 4in sunshade, and 1/8 moa adjustment for around $300. It will focus down to 25m. Its not too big and not too heavy. You can go to the Nikon site and identify your ammo and it will spit out aiming points for the mil dots depending on your load and zero distance. For a target rifle shooting 100-200m with a 22 it should last a lifetime.

Smith357
January 3, 2011, 08:58 PM
You can often find used Anschutz heavy target rifles in the $4-600 range top it with a Weaver T24 or T36 and you are good to go.

Magoo
January 3, 2011, 10:37 PM
Trust me folks, he's got all his bases covered now ;). Well, maybe some bolt work...likely a Vblock...maybe bed and pillar...

He'll shortly be trying to figure out what kind of ammo to feed his new toy.

hardluk1
January 4, 2011, 10:12 AM
No one ask a simple question. How accurate a rifle are you looking for. You could buy or build a great fun gun of 1/3 what you have placed as a buget from must companies that canh shoot MOA with the right ammo. I have a 511P rem and a pair of home spun ruger 10/22 that all can do that with a scope for less than 500 dollars total.

Bill B.
January 4, 2011, 02:18 PM
Simi Auto would be preferred, but I do not want to limit my options. I do want a tack driver.

Take a look at a TC Classic before you purchase if you are into semi's. One of the finer shooting rimfires out of the box period! It will leave you a lot of wiggle room for some nice optics on your budget. What ever scope you go with make sure that it does have an AO.

Picher
January 4, 2011, 02:52 PM
Check this out:

http://www.savage-rifles.com/item/65118_Savage_Arms_Rifles_Shotguns_Savage_25725_Mark-II_BTVS.aspx

These rifles, out of the box are out-shooting some very good target rifles.

(I don't own one, but they've been featured in a few gun magazines lately. I think Shooting Times did an article on them.) They have the new Accu-Trigger, which is excellent, great barrels, and good bedding.

Mount a good variable in the 4.5-14x range at the LEAST.

JP

xfyrfiter
January 4, 2011, 04:44 PM
My personal rifle is a 10-22 with a fajen thumbhole, and ruger chf stock barrel ,3-9 x40 tasco, shoots bugholes all day. Valquarson compensater and absolutely zero recoil. I,ve been shooting .22's for more than 50 years and this is the most accurate I've ever fired.

GunTech
January 4, 2011, 11:00 PM
My son's Savage will shoot dinky holes, but the mag and mag catch have to be one of the worst ever designed. Hard to get in and out and dirt sensitive.

Don357
January 5, 2011, 10:02 AM
Funny how no ones mentioned the Winchester Wildcat. It is actually a Russian Tula TOZ-78, and comes in 2 versions. A heavy barrel target gun and a "light" barrel sporting gun. I have the original Russian sporting version and it will consistantly shoot MOA @100yds with a 3x9x32 Tasco "Pronghorn" scope using CCI 36gr "Mini-Mags"
These rifles were built from Match grade barrels at the Tula Arsenal. According to an artical I read, the "light" barrels are simply turned down heavy barrels. My rifle has the typical Russian stock, hooded front sight, and "paddle wheel" rear sight, which I've never even zero'ed because of the scope. When Winchester imported the rifles, they raised the price, changed the stocks, sights, and angle of bolt handle, but the basic action is the same. Tula also built a semi-auto version, the TOZ-99, but I don't think it ever made it to the US market.
In my opinion these are excellent rifles and not overly expensive.

Hunter72
January 5, 2011, 12:04 PM
First off this is not for competition. I am 52 and the eyes can't go there anymore! It is a play gun.

Awesome!!! something I'm somewhat qualified to talk about. I'm 38 and used to shoot competition back in high school (22 prone). Back then we used old army surplus 22's that had so much rust you would think one round would destroy the whole gun. At my best I could ace a 50 foot (thats foot not yards) competition target with no scope and no corrective glasses. Now I find myself starting to gear toward scopes too.


Bolt action is fine, but I do want a magazine feed if possible. Simi Auto would be preferred, but I do not want to limit my options.

I currently have a romanian .22LR that is as tough as they come. I bought the gun for my kids to shoot and needless to say it gets banged around. This is a bone stock gun with the original iron sights. It's bolt action and also has a 6 shot clip. I can keep a 3" group at 50 yards using Remmington 22Golden Bullet (el cheap-o) ammo. Past 50 yards even with my glasses I have a hard time. I'm sure if I added a scope of the power you want I could shoot dime groups all day long at 50 yards.


Suggestions on ammo for the gun would also be appreciated.



Tech on the ammo:
36gr round nose hollow point
1280 muzzel velocity, 1010fps @ 100 yards
energy 131ft-lb @ muzzel, 82ft-lb at 100 yards
sighted @ 50 yards drop is -5.6 @ 100 yards.

I do want a tack driver.

I also need a optic for 25M to 100M, and with my eyes I need more than 4-5X.

I want to keep the budget here below $1500, $1,000 would be better.


Rifle cost me $150<-----GOOD CHEAP FUN well below your budget, leaves plenty of room for the best scope you can find. I would suggest a 2-7 magnification and hope you don't use the 7x at 25 meter, LOL

You commented you wanted a gun "better than you" and I have to say there is no such thing. The gun will always be only as good as the shooter.

gregj
January 5, 2011, 12:24 PM
Check this out:

http://www.savage-rifles.com/item/65...k-II_BTVS.aspx

These rifles, out of the box are out-shooting some very good target rifles.

(I don't own one, but they've been featured in a few gun magazines lately. I think Shooting Times did an article on them.) They have the new Accu-Trigger, which is excellent, great barrels, and good bedding.

Mount a good variable in the 4.5-14x range at the LEAST.

JP

My 16yr old son has this model, with a Tasco MAG 3-12x40 scope. Using bulk ammo at 25-30 yrds, you can almost get every round touching each other. This thing has been awesome right out of the box.

NavyLCDR
January 5, 2011, 12:35 PM
I've got a Ruger 10/22, it has a Adams and Bennett match grade bull barrel, Fajen thumbhole stock, a KIDD Innovation two stage target trigger set for 18oz/8 oz pull weight. I have a BSA Sweet 22 6-18x40 scope on it.

I recently entered a 100 yard bench rest rifle competition with it against 10 other guns. Mine was the only rimfire rifle out of all 11 of us. The others were shooting multi-thousand dollar rifles from .223 to .308 with much better scopes and benchrest setups. I took second place.

I normally shoot Wolf Match Target ammo, for the competition I used Eley Tenex Pistol ammo.

BrocLuno
January 5, 2011, 05:15 PM
Nice shooting and fun to take on the "big boys" :)

I take it you did not cross the super-sonic barrier with that ammo?

For the OP - there are a couple of threads about the CenterPoint 4~16/40 scope with target turrets and adjustable objective floating around now. Seems that some folks are having real good luck with that little scope. I'm going to get one and try it out - might work OK?

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