New BCM 14.5 EAG


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DAdams
January 6, 2011, 02:40 PM
This is my first AR. I researched the topical matter for a number of months including numerous Forums and the opinions of many.
This included the pros and cons of DI and Piston, and including even caliber
5.56 vs 7.62. The caliber part I justified with the versatility of the 5.56 lower being able to accomodate a 6.8 upper at some point, maybe.

I looked at virtually every Manufacturer's products and models from entry level to off my budget radar.

Here's what I ended up with and and I am extremely pleased with how it turned out. Two of my main criteria were length, weight and balance.

BCM was great to do business with.

Upper BCM 14.5 midlength and this is where most of the money went. I think I could have done well for less, but this is what I wanted. ;)

E.A.G. Tactical Upper Half Package Includes:
BCM® 14.5" Mid Length Gas BFH (Cold Hammer Forged) Barrel (w/ perm A2X™ Flash Hider)
BCM® HPT/MPI Bolt Carrier Group (auto profile)
BCMGUNFIGHTER™ Mod 3 Charging Handle
LaRue Tactical 9" Tactical Free Float Handguards
TangoDown SCAR Panel Covers
Troy Ind/BCM Rear Folding Battle Sight
1:7 Twist
Slip2000 EWL & 725 Cleaner

BCM4 Lower Receiver Group

Machined from Aluminum Forgings 7075-T6
Hardcoat Anodizing: MIL-A-8625F, Type III, Class 2
Chrome Bore and Chamber
BCM® Milspec 7075-T6 Receiver Extention
Vltor Stock
Staked M4 Lock Nut
USGI H Buffer (1 USGI Tungsten, 2 Steel)
Magpul MOE Enhanced Trigger Guard
Low Shelf for RDIAS installation
Low Shelf for Accuwedge use
Un-notched Hammer compatible with 9mm use
Fire Controls marked SAFE and SEMI

The upper a lower are extremely well crafted and fit together like they both came from BCM and were made for each other. $1625.
I bought 6 MagPul magazines with Ranger bases.

I need a sling, EOTechs and some range weather.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m22/dadams111/P1010026-2.jpg

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m22/dadams111/P1010031.jpg

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m22/dadams111/P1010024-2.jpg
P99AS .40.

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Dionysusigma
January 6, 2011, 02:44 PM
Nearly identical to what I'm building. Good work! :)

DoubleTapDrew
January 6, 2011, 03:30 PM
Nice! You skipped the baby steps AR and went straight to the good stuff!

C-grunt
January 6, 2011, 03:44 PM
That is a fantactic rifle you got there. Cant go wrong with BCM. Get some good time on the irons before you add a red dot and you might be surprised at how well you do with them.

MrCleanOK
January 6, 2011, 04:04 PM
You did good!

Z-Michigan
January 6, 2011, 04:15 PM
Get some good time on the irons before you add a red dot and you might be surprised at how well you do with them.

I agree.

Also, you may determine that you instead want an Aimpoint, or something else completely. EOTech makes a good sight, but it's rather large and heavy, battery life is about 1/10 or less that of an Aimpoint, and the holographic reticle can look fuzzy. This is all coming from someone who owns two EOTechs and zero Aimpoints, of course.

6 mags is barely a starting point if you start practicing, or just want spares.

Do some research on slings, but chances are you will want one of the Vickers, VTAC, or Spec-Ops brand slings.

kwelz
January 6, 2011, 04:26 PM
VERY nice build. And very similar to my most recent build. Mine was a Daniel Defense but you may as well flip a coin between the two for quality.

If I could make one suggestion for a change. I would ditch the Rail panels. They are pretty thick and can be difficult to hold for extended periods of time unless you have huge hands. Check out Magpul XT or XTM panels. A bit thinner and lighter.

But that is just my personal opinion. regardless you have a great gun there that will serve you well in pretty much any situation.


I second most of what Z said. I too prefer Aimpoint over Eotech. Although I would suggest getting one sooner a opposed to later.

He is also correct on the Slings. Do some research but chances are you will end up with a Vickers, VTAC, or similar.

Grunt Medic TXARNG
January 6, 2011, 04:42 PM
Don't overlook the ability of the AR platform to run COMBLOC surplus, including both 7.62x39 and 5.45x39. Any issues with registering your SBR?

I use and like the ladder style low profile rail covers, as I have somewhat smaller hands.

kwelz
January 6, 2011, 04:43 PM
Grunt medic he doesn't have an SBR. He had an A2X pinned to make it legal.

Grunt Medic TXARNG
January 6, 2011, 04:54 PM
Thanks - that answers my question exactly.

Z-Michigan
January 6, 2011, 05:21 PM
I would also second the suggestion for ladder style rail covers. The thinnest and lightest option. As far as I can tell, ALL ladder rail covers are made by Falcon/Ergo, just sold by 5 different companies. The ones sold by Daniel Defense (which are marked Ergo on the back) tend to be least expensive, at least via Midway USA.

Oh, and don't rush out to install a VFG or AFG until you've used it enough to know whether you actually want such a thing. They have their merits, but they are not an automatic must-have.

Grunt Medic TXARNG
January 6, 2011, 06:05 PM
One other thing I do and recommend - I put ladder rail covers on ALL exposed rails, to protect both them and my hands from damage. Some of those rails are SHARP!

HGUNHNTR
January 6, 2011, 06:17 PM
You may also want to look at a different grip........nothing wrong witht he stock version, but many folks find some aftermarket versions to be much more ergo freindly.
Nice set up.

DAdams
January 6, 2011, 08:44 PM
Interesting thread.

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=50511

BCM Filthy 14 Article from Swat Magazine.http://www.bravocompanymfg.com/v/vspfiles/assets/images/filthy14_oct10.pdf

Thanks for the comments. Definitely will be doing some follow-up on your recommended items.

Any slings that standout above the rest? Single point? Double?

Good source for range mags?
Someone suggested an EBR (evil black rifle, evil black revolver thread).


Definitely will do the ladder rail covers.

Certainly will shoot with the irons first.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m22/dadams111/P1010027-2.jpg

kwelz
January 6, 2011, 08:51 PM
Any slings that standout above the rest? Single point? Double?

VCAS 2 point sling. I prefer the Padded version myself.

Look at the pictures and videos from an Advanced class. 90% of the people will be using one. I like to call that a Clue. :)

Good source for range mags?

I prefer PMAGs. But there is nothing wrong with quality USGI Mags as long as they have Magpul followers.

Definitely will do the ladder rail covers.

Good deal. But make sure you use what works best for you.

By the way, if you think that thread is impressive do a google search for Filthy 14.

Slvr Surfr
January 6, 2011, 09:15 PM
I would throw another hat into the sling ring for the Magpul MS2. Designed to be used as a single point and also a two point. MP is supposed to be coming out with the third gen sling sometime soon.

To the OP: Nice rifle, it looks like a real shooter. My upper should be here from BCM in the AM.

kwelz
January 6, 2011, 09:56 PM
I would steer people away from the MS2. I tried them out and there are a couple of problems with them.

The Quick release can be a bit to easy to release. Gun go Splat.

They are also really thin and can twist. Trust me after carrying it for a few hours you feel like you are being cut in half. I like the idea of a Single point/2 Point convertible sling but feel that the MS2 and the MS3 both come up short.

DAdams
January 6, 2011, 10:35 PM
How about the MagPul AFG (angle forward grip)?

kwelz
January 6, 2011, 10:44 PM
Works for some people but not for others. I prefer a stubby VFG but am comfortable with the AFG as well.

With a lot of gear like Grips and VFGs it comes down to what works best for you. Some people like MOE grips but I find them uncomfortable for long term shooting. Some like VFGs, others don't. ETC, ETC.

Z-Michigan
January 6, 2011, 11:38 PM
+100 to post #19

I also find that the AFG only works well if it's mounted fairly far out. The very end of your 9" rail is likely to be just barely far enough unless you have short arms. It works better out in the 10-12" range depending on arm length and shooting style.

The Magpul AFG and RVG are fairly inexpensive if you just want to try them out, but I'll reiterate that they may or may not end up being useful to you.

DAdams
January 6, 2011, 11:49 PM
The very end of your 9" rail is likely to be just barely far enough unless you have short arms.

Interesting observation, and my arms are 32-33 so I may leave it alone for awhile. Felt pretty darn good the way it is.

kwelz
January 7, 2011, 12:04 AM
Good idea. Here is something I have discovered. A lot of things seems like they would work great for you when you plan a weapon system.

But as you get trigger time and really learn what you are doing then you will start to change things. The current configuration of my weapon has developed from what I am finding works and doesn't work for me.

I am considering a longer rail right now. Because 9 inches is really to short for my preferred grip. But for some people a 7 inch rail works fine.

Z-Michigan
January 7, 2011, 12:30 AM
I've gone from conventional handguards, to VFG on MOE, to VFG on quadrail (because the MOE was too loose), to AFG on quadrail, and am now trending back toward conventional plastic handguards with no additional grip, except one rifle with a 12" DD quadrail that will likely keep an AFG, and an M4gery that will keep a VFG because those 7" handguards are too short to get a good grip (IMHO) with either an AFG or no added grip.

I was rather interested when I watched a USMC officer at a 2-gun competition a couple months ago using no add-on grip (neither vertical nor AFG), just some paracord wrapped around a 15" free float tube. He finished first that day by a substantial margin, against some really impressive shooters, many of them also current or ex-military and including two national class trainers as well as a number of local instructors. It was a really good reminder that skill is more important than gear. The rest of the gun was high-end stuff so I'm 100% sure he had the money for any grip he would have wanted.

This is not to say that there's anything wrong with using a VFG or AFG if it really works for you, just to say that neither one is necessary to being a good shooter.

I think the AFG is a great concept, but I think its size when added to any common handguard can undermine the ideal grip. And I actually think the AFG2 is worse in this respect than the original, even though it is shorter in length and looks trimmer. If someone could make a handguard with that sort of grip completely integrated, so it didn't increase the effective height and diameter, I think that would generally be a bit superior to just a straight tube handguard, at least for many shooters.

DBR
January 7, 2011, 12:33 AM
I suggest you look here: http://www.blueforcegear.com/ for slings and other web gear. VERY high quality, fair prices and excellent service.

Personally, I like their Simple Sling.

Z-Michigan
January 7, 2011, 12:40 AM
Just to avoid any confusion - Blue Force Gear makes and sells the Vickers sling, which is also referred to as the VCAS (Vickers Combat Applications Sling).

And to add some confusion, the VTAC or Viking Tactics sling is a completely different, but also high quality, sling.

taliv
January 7, 2011, 10:28 AM
And by "completely different" he means "nearly identical" but from a different company. I have a couple of each and love them both.

Nice gun choice! If you bought it because of EAGs advice/experience you would be well advised to read what he has to say about eotechs before buying one.

Bartholomew Roberts
January 7, 2011, 10:42 AM
DAdams, if you haven't seen them yet - I did a review of the Magpul MS2 sling here (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=497050&highlight=Magpul+AFG) (comparing it to the Vickers and older VTAC) and there is a good discussion of the Magul AFG and vertical grip use in general (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=515367&highlight=Magpul+AFG) in THR (good links in that thread too).

Nice rifle, BTW. Very well thought out. Does the EAG upper come with the certificate for training with EAG? That is the best part of the whole EAG package IMO.

Birddog1911
January 7, 2011, 11:10 AM
Late to this party, but congrats on the BCM. I considered that model, but it just wasn't what I wanted.

I, like others, went with the Vickers Blue Force padded two point sling. I considered a one point, but I like my family jewels!:eek:

Mags; I use a mix of PMags and Colt USGI that I got a good deal on, with Magpul followers. I won't buy anything but PMags any longer, unless it is a screaming deal for good mags.

Gratuitous gun pron:

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii190/Birddog4570/Oct2010082.jpg

DAdams
January 7, 2011, 03:01 PM
you would be well advised to read what he has to say about eotechs before buying one.

I will do that.

Gratuitous gun porn:



EBR/EBD :rolleyes:

Vickers Blue Force padded two point sling.
How about a link to the exact sling or slings nearly the same.

Does the EAG upper come with the certificate for training with EAG?
Yes it did. I am looking for the appropriate level class coming nearest to me.

I'm going to stick to the PMags too. Why 30 vs 20? Clearance on a bench?

kwelz
January 7, 2011, 03:28 PM
Here is a link to the sling.
http://www.blueforcegear.com/products/Vickers-Padded-Sling.html

Depending on your build you may or may not want the padded version. I am a bigger guy and the padded fits well but I know a couple small guys where the pad doesn't lay right to help them.


I suggest 30 round PMAGS only. You can get a couple 20 rounders for bench work but they aren't really useful most of the time and in fact have been known to have problems. I keep about a half dozen old Colt 20 round USGI mags around for bench work myself.

ny32182
January 7, 2011, 04:06 PM
ARs are like legos and if you think you might build more than one there is nothing wrong with buying some piece of gear and trying it out, and having it go in a drawer if it doesn't work on this particular rifle... it might work on the next. I've got a drawer full of all kinds of stuff that falls into that category, and it seems I dive in there for one part or another on just about any rifle I get these days.

Personally I like relatively close in VFG on carbines. If I had a rifle with a long rail/tube and/or wanted to use it for 3gun I might take a look at the FAG. I put ladder sections on the top rail and exposed small portions of the side rails, but prefer a more full panel of some sort for the majority of the bottom and side rails since I think they are more comfortable and protect your hand from heat better. I think mine are Magpul XT's, they are light and have a nice texture.

I have a mix of all kinds of magazines; PMAGs, USGI, 20s, and 30's. 20's are definitely nicer off the bench and shorten the profile of the rifle in general when that is desired (for storage with mag inserted, etc).

Looks like you are off to a good start.

Quentin
January 7, 2011, 05:02 PM
Outstanding rifle!

Pat Rogers would be pleased! :D

possum
January 7, 2011, 05:43 PM
This is my first AR.

that is a heck of a first ar! i wish BCM would have been around when i started shooting, owning and training with the AR platform. I have a BCM upper, and internals, very happy customer indeed, and i will not hesitate to buy more/ other BCM products. I have seen them run in courses, and i through my own rifle, i know that they are good to go.

DAdams
January 8, 2011, 01:00 AM
that is a heck of a first ar! i wish BCM would have been around when i started shooting,

There is indeed some very nice product out there. Alot of the hype is just that. I would stay away from the low end and there is really no reason to buy at the high end since there is no value/quality added. One is only paying for marketing costs. There is a sweet spot in the middle though where you get your moneys worth.

possum
January 8, 2011, 02:50 PM
How about the MagPul AFG (angle forward grip)?

i was kinda iffy about it at first, but i have been using an agressive forward grip for a while with a regular vfg. then i tried the afg, and I love it, it is a great product, it makes holding and indexing the gun so natural i don't have to think about it being in the right spot like i had to with the vfg.

here is a pic of mine, since others are posting theirs
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a98/rollins_joshua/DSC_0639.jpg

Z-Michigan
January 8, 2011, 09:55 PM
Alot of the hype is just that. I would stay away from the low end and there is really no reason to buy at the high end since there is no value/quality added. One is only paying for marketing costs. There is a sweet spot in the middle though where you get your moneys worth.

???

Nearly everyone considers BCM firmly "high end" in quality. Price paid varies and is coming down. But in straight quality terms, it's hard to say who would be considered higher quality than BCM - as in, probably no one. Maybe Knight's, Colt, or Noveske at 11am on a Wednesday when it's raining and there was nothing on tv the night before. Maybe.

It just sounds really funny for someone who just bought a premium quality AR to say that the high end doesn't offer anything extra!

ny32182
January 8, 2011, 10:08 PM
BCM is nice, but there is plenty of "higher end" stuff out there at a higher price; I think that is was he was alluding to.

DAdams
January 8, 2011, 10:33 PM
BCM is nice, but there is plenty of "higher end" stuff out there at a higher price; I think that is was he was alluding to.

Exactly.

BCM as far as I am concerned is right up there, but there are Companies with higher prices which (marketing) would lead one to believe then the quality is higher as supposedly you get what you pay for? So if for example a POF is $2400 is the quality higher? I think there is a point of diminshing return but incrementally it might be.

I think the BCM is a fine quality product myself or I wouldn't have bought it but if I had 2500 to throw I may have considered a POF or LWRC or Noveske, which run more. I would put BCM in the upper upper range but not the top of the line.

Only espousing my opinion which was developed based on only 8 months of research and interviewing users.

Z-Michigan
January 8, 2011, 10:33 PM
Yeah, OK. Just choice of terms and their meaning. There are brands with fancier features and fancier reputations that cost more. I assume that's what he meant. My point is simply that there's no other brand that seems to have any meaningfully greater chance of going bang, when called upon, on a reliably boring basis.

(edit: this post was a reply to #37, before #38 was posted).

Z-Michigan
January 8, 2011, 10:36 PM
but if I had 2500 to throw I may have consider POF or LWRC or Noveske, which run more. I would put BCM in the upper upper range but not the top of the line.

A friend of mine has two POF rifles, and I've shot one (5.56) many times (the .308 only once). You aren't missing much if anything. A professional trainer I've met has very negative things to say about POF. Not much nicer for LWRC either. Noveske is top notch but really offers only bells and whistles compared to BCM.

If I were going to drop $2500 on a 5.56 rifle, I would probably get a BCM or Daniel Defense (comparable quality) and put the rest in optic, ammo and training... oh wait, that's why I have a couple of DD's. And if I just had to spend that money on the rifle, it would be for a SCAR or (gasp) ACR, or a pre-86 properly registered M16.

Anyway, enjoy your BCM, I am not in any way knocking it, quite the opposite.

DAdams
January 8, 2011, 10:38 PM
My point is simply that there's no other brand that seems to have any meaningfully greater chance of going bang, when called upon, on a reliably boring basis.

I agree entirely. Reliability is paramount.

That and if.....

I could accomplish that and 2 MOA at 75 to 100 yards with iron sights and run out thousands of trouble free rounds with "decen't ammunition I would be a happy man. ;)

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