WTK Largest cal. blunderbust available?


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jackguns
January 6, 2011, 06:23 PM
I have been looking the net over for these. I have seen some come and go on the boards. I can't get a straight answer from those selling them and I am wondering if I get one, what is the largest cal. available? I really want one to throw the most shot short of a cannon:) I would also prefer a percussion although I have seen few of these.

The largest I have seen so far is .733 i think.

Next question naturally would be is where to get that BIG one on the net

Thanks alot for the info and I am honored to be here amongst the knowledgable

Jack
J & S Gun Sales

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GCBurner
January 6, 2011, 06:49 PM
I think the largest calibre blunderbus I've ever seen was about .75 calibre, not counting the bell shaped muzzle. Anything larger than that, and it would probably be a mounted swivel gun, or a punt gun. I wouldn't want to shoot it from my shoulder, that's for sure.

jackguns
January 6, 2011, 07:00 PM
Thank you very much for reply


Jack

GCBurner
January 6, 2011, 08:49 PM
At .75 calibre, you're equivalent to a 10 gauge shotgun bore. I think the maximum amount of lead shot in 10 gauge is 1.6 ounces, or 700 grains.
That's the traditional 1/10 pound of shot that gives a 10-bore its name.

higene
January 6, 2011, 08:52 PM
.75, 11 Gauge, in Sitting Fox kits. 1 1/8 is standard 12 gauge load. I don't think you are going to blow up a gun by putting too much shot in it.

I would ask Sitting Fox about a percussion option.


http://www.sittingfoxmuzzleloaders.com/k/K4%20Blunderbuss/K4%20Blunderbuss/K4%20Blunderbuss.html

http://www.sittingfoxmuzzleloaders.com/k/K39%20Musketoon%20Blunderbus/K39%20Musketoon%20Blunderbuss.htm

Loyalist Dave
January 6, 2011, 11:09 PM
A blunder buss isn't a shoulder fired cannon. It was a coach gun, with a built in loading funnel, is all. So no need to put a massive load in one. You want a small piece of artillery, get a swivel gun in 1".
:D
LD

jackguns
January 7, 2011, 01:07 PM
as long as you reduced your grain load

Cosmoline
January 7, 2011, 01:44 PM
First off you have to define what you mean by blunderbuss. The category includes a wide array of small arms from little more than bell-mouthed pistols to deck guns large enough to sink a small boat. So actually some *WERE* akin to cannons.

But as LD notes, most were used as coach guns in the 18th century, or for home defense. These tended to have somewhat lighter barrels and would pack a charge on par with a 12 ga. or 10 ga. fowler. But others were considerably stouter. I've read accounts in the authoritative book on the subject by James Forman of soldiers using them with DOUBLE Bess charges and double ball plus buckshot to act as raking shots during an abuscade. The soldiers with the busses would wait on the flank, then fire from cover across the enemy. A Bess charge was pretty stout, so a double Bess charge with two cartridges two balls and other stuff tossed in would be epic.

The one I have now is a custom model with a very thick walled barrel that shoots .715" roundball with heavy pillow ticking. I load with 110 grains 2F and that's as much as I'd ever want to load with. It's incredible fun and will keep a touching group at 25 yards without sights. Of course a touching group with balls that size isn't exactly MOA ;-)

For the typical India-made buss I would stick religiously to standard fowler loads and NO more. Mine has a steel barrel like a small mortar made by a guy who's been in the business since before I was crawling. But most of them for sale are either antiques, brass barreled or India made. Not defective, but don't push them.

jackguns
January 7, 2011, 02:50 PM
I would want an 8-10 ga in a steel barrel. I have been talking to Middlesex trading and all of his are about .69 he says but he does have a steel barrel version thick enough he says steel shot would be ok but I want at least .73 to .75 bore

Yes, I want a repro golf ball to soda can size field cannon sooo bad but I don't have K's for the barrel alone. Hard to justify here on Maryland's eastern shore where we grow everything but mountains and hills

Cosmoline
January 7, 2011, 03:02 PM
Jackguns--I got mine from a Jackie Brown kit. He calls it a "European boar gun" and you might poke around to see if there are any for sale. Another option would be Oregon Barrel Company. I know they make massive 4 bore and 8 bore barrels for the Gun Works custom sporting rifles. Getting a suitable barrel, you can build a buss around it.

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs407.snc4/46987_1651458094475_1477701250_1724022_5996220_n.jpg

USAF_Vet
January 7, 2011, 03:15 PM
While not categorically a blunderbuss, the musketoon had calibers of up to 2.5"

If all you want is a massive bore, the musketoon is where it's at. Kinda hard to find and pretty expensive. FWIW, the History channel show Pawn Stars featured a Musketoon last year.

jackguns
January 7, 2011, 03:49 PM
in this conversation. Massive shoulder fired big bore... hehe:what:

Can you tell I am bored with class 3 stuff yet? I will check it out

Thanks


Jack

Cosmoline
January 7, 2011, 05:10 PM
Another option, while not a belled muzzle, are the old Belgian trade guns. They came in mega-bore sizes and were made for the African trade. Early in the black powder revival Turner Kirkland of Dixie Gun Works imported a bunch of them and many are still in circulation. They often have odd looking miquelet locks and crude furnishings. They can be had for very reasonable prices, often $500 or less. I wouldn't over-charge them as those barrels were never proofed AFAIK, but with balls near an inch across you really don't need to charge them much for a big bang.

arcticap
January 8, 2011, 01:05 AM
If thinking about any kind of custom large bore then the gun builder below may be the best person to talk to.

http://www.freewebs.com/stolzergunsmithing/

THR video post:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=529561&highlight=2+bore

ALR thread with 2 Bore Project Link in post #1:

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=6293.0

jackguns
January 8, 2011, 03:48 PM
can make me a barrel from 2 bore on but darn, there is a lot more to it than getting a barrel after reading about the 2 bore build. I wonder how much that gun goes for? I have not returned the call yet to Gunworks until I find out if such a beast could be built a little cheaper. I don't need all the fancy engraving etc

Jaymo
January 9, 2011, 12:09 AM
Colin Stolzer does beautiful work. He's over on the homegunsmith.com forum. He also has his own forum, a BP forum.

His boxlocks are nothing short of fine art.

jackguns
January 9, 2011, 03:13 PM
fit, it would not appear that I could build anything black powder even with a custom barrel. Since most of the parts available are for 10 guage on down, it would appear that I am SOL for a large bore blunderbuss or anything else in less than a finished gun.

I think I could get a couple pieces of thick walled pipe and weld them together, get a set of wooden wheels , make a carriage and finish a homemade mythbuster's cannon though as long as the finished product looks like a repro cannon in ATF's eyes


Guess I will offer 2 or 3 NIB Romanian GP WASR 10's on another board and see if anyone bites. I will check out all the leads given to see what I can find out there

Thanks for all the help guys

Jack
J & S Gun Sales


Hey cosmoline, how much did you say that european Bore gun was?;)

Cosmoline
January 9, 2011, 03:36 PM
Be patient. It takes months sometimes to find what you're after in the world of black powder. I'd also strongly suggest getting ahold of Greg Christian or Jackie Brown and seeing what kind of big-bore buss or musketoon kits they have built or unbuilt.

jackguns
January 9, 2011, 04:21 PM
Got an Int. address

Jaymo
January 9, 2011, 05:07 PM
ATF doesn't care if it's a real cannon or a replica cannon. Muzzleloading black powder cannons are perfectly legal to own. I'd like to have a golf ball cannon, and a golf ball mortar. I don't have the capacity to make one, and I can't afford to buy one or have one made. Guess I'm SOL (story of my life).
I'd love to have an 8 bore blunderbuss with a barrel made of 4140 steel. Should be a heck of a deer/hog gun for ball/buckshot.

Cosmoline
January 9, 2011, 06:24 PM
Oops, sorry

http://www.jackiebrownmuzzleloaders.com/

Ask about the one he calls the "European boar gun." It's really a fanciful version of the east european hunting blunderbusses. I've never seen a real life example of them, but I've read about them. The royalty in the east would ride around firing from horseback with the things. This was not done in central or western Europe, as rifles were preferred from way back.

I don't know if Greg has a website, but he sells stuff over on the traditional muzzleloader forum. You can also post on their general forum to see if anyone else can direct you.

http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/pp-classifieds/showproduct.php?product=5739

Keep in mind that price is not too cheap on these. A quality custom barrel will run $200 or more, and a full kit would be over $600. A completed one would be $800 minimum.

jackguns
January 9, 2011, 06:30 PM
Again, I appreciate it. Though somewhat illegal, I want to try it on a canada goose at 50 yds shooting the required steel shot but kinda overlooking the 10 guage maximum bore size:) Just Joking, maybe:)

Cosmoline
January 9, 2011, 07:53 PM
Hitting *anything* at 50 yards with one of these will be a challenge, so I don't think the goose are in grave danger.

jackguns
January 10, 2011, 08:44 PM
he could make me up to .75 but that was it. i joined the Muzzleloading forum website and put a want ad on there and they knocked off my want ad and I can't lolg back on to the site. Has not been a good day. On the other hand, the old 12 guage knocked down 2 canada geese today and I shot my 1919. Looks like i am back searching gunbrokers, auction arms and gunsamerica.


Keep me in mind if you ever see one cosmo. I am done searching the net. Some websites are kinda grouchy for FNG's

Cosmoline
January 11, 2011, 03:29 PM
Yeah they are grouchy, I've noticed that about a lot of black powder folks.

I'd suggested asking the Oregon Barrel Co. I know they make some massive barrels for The Gun Works. They're easy to find with a google search. And they're nice--I went down there myself and checked them out a year back.

goon
January 13, 2011, 01:17 PM
I don't know what problem you had with the muzzleloading forum but those guys have always been helpful to me. If you really want to run into some grouchy people, try posting on the Yahoo F&I or Revolutionary war groups a few times...
IIRC, there is a guy on the muzzleloading forum with a 4 bore blunderbuss. You might also check out the Frontier Folk forum. I'm planning to get into reenacting after I get a decent pair of F&I war era shoes and have found both sites to be helpful.
Just be careful about saying anything good, bad, or at all but Indian muskets. I think I still have people who would like to bayonet me over that one...

Loyalist Dave
January 14, 2011, 11:09 PM
You can find Jackie on Historical Trekking forum. You can then send him a private message. You will need to register to do so, but that's really not a problem. As for cranky-ness on BP forums, well not all are alike and some have rules that allow certain postings, and actually topic areas for those, and some don't. I know of one that doesn't have a place to offer stuff for sale, and it also doesn't talk about modern muzzleloaders such as in-lines. In fact I just recommended this site to some folks on another forum as they were trying to talk about modern current events when the site is strictly 1840 or before. Most feel they need to avoid flame wars over emotional topics.

try Jackie here


Historical Trekking Message Board (http://www.historicaltrekking.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=1)

LD

Pete D.
January 15, 2011, 01:37 PM
Hitting *anything* at 50 yards with one of these will be a challenge
+1 about that. Regardless of how much you put in one - except the REALLY big 2 and 4 gauges - the barrels are cylinder bore and as such the pattern will spread about two inches a yard. 50 yards = a mighty wide pattern that it'd take a lot of shot to fill.
Heydey of the BB was 1500 through 1800 - "coach guns with a built in loading funnel" - that is a great description.
I have one in 14 gauge - a 14 inch barrel - when it goes off, the blast is right there not too far from your nose. Great fun.
Pete

About Golf Ball mortars - I made one and bought one. They can be had for less than $100.
See HMR at this link: http://www.hmrcannons.com/Price.html

or Dom Carpenter at http://blackpowder-cannons.com/index.htm

Oyeboten
January 15, 2011, 11:12 PM
I kinda think that could mess you up after a while...that's a heck of a whallup there -

http://www.youtube.com/user/cstolzer338#p/a/u/0/91gAE6tac_k

capt. jas.
April 12, 2011, 01:04 PM
The only correctly designed blunderbuss kit made with high quality parts available is the kit Stonewall Creek Outfitters is offering.
It utilizes a 4 ga. barrel by Ed Rayl, Chambers round face lock and high quality brass hardware. It is of mid 18th century civilian styling.

http://www.stonewallcreekoutfitters.com/blunderbuss-kit/

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