Anyone has 30 Remington AR dies? this case has some potential


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1stmarine
January 6, 2011, 09:55 PM
I came to the conclusion that the 30 cal Remington AR is a nice case.
How come this can be compared to an AK-47 standard round? Nothing wrong with the AK, it is great but I am just saying there is some bigger potential here for hunters than originally expected putting more than 1000lb/ft of energy close to 500 yards.

This case is very strong and it can hold 44 gr of H2O.

I believe it can take w/o any problems a 168gr bullet w/o running into any COAL issues and push it to a decent speed, at least this is what the math says. What I need is to see if someone with the 30RAR dies can test sitting a nice bullet to verify. If this is true this will make an awesome alternative for hunting a mid range. I cannot understand Remington. They have this awesome case and their marketing strategy is a disaster. They come out with this ugly camo rifle / uppers and a 4 round magazine with standard corelokt 125gr bullet that in terms of ballistics is one of the worse options one can take. When in reality they have the DPMS 10 round mags (same as 450 bushmaster) black uppers and the most important think I am convinced this case will take perfectly the 168 high BC bullet w/o COAL issues. COAL is the problem the WSSM uppers have.
I just do not understand Remington. I might be wrong but it looks to me that the marketing guys there do not have a clue. They could have targeted a much wider market. Again, the case is really strong and short enough to take a very good bullet.

Details:

Maximum length in the AR Magazine 2.270 (.223 is 2.260 but there is a tad more room on average)
Barnes TSX 168gr length is: 1.317
30 RAR cartrige length: 1.5300
Min length to properly seat the above bullet: 0.784 ...this w/o stepping into the ogive.

AR COAL: 2.270
30 RAR Case 1.530
--------------
Difference 0.740

The Barnes TSX 168gr bullet at 0.710 still have another 0.030 before reaching max. COAL. This is a good bullet but might not be the best choice but we also have the Nosler E-tip and a few other good ones.

http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z327/fotoeiro/30%20cal%20bullets/rifle036.jpg

So if the bullet above could be seated properly and it felt good to the reloader we could find a load with the potential.

QL says this can be done and this is the chart:

Range Velocity Drop Energy
0 2420 0 2185
100 2232 3.4 1858
200 2056 13.82 1577
300 1888 32.51 1330
400 1730 61.01 1117
500 1583 101.15 935
600 1448 155.2 782
700 1328 225.82 658
800 1224 316.09 559
900 1140 429.39 485
1000 1074 569.15 430

Anyone can help?

Cheers,
E.

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NCsmitty
January 6, 2011, 10:20 PM
It is a nice case and could be better necked down to a caliber with better BC.

I have heard that there are other rounds in the works, but nothing definite.



NCsmitty

1stmarine
January 6, 2011, 11:28 PM
NCsmitty,
Hopefully we will find someone with the dies that want to try this for us.
I would not be surprised if REmington take the same case and neck it down to 6.5 where we have a nice bullet assortment of good bullets.
Anyway what I am trying to verify here it would not be difficult and it will serve much better to many hunters. 125gr in .30 is worse than the the 110gr in 6.8.
Great at short to mid range but then the low BC low density bullet decelerates as fast as it accelerates. These are like bullets with the landing flaps down! LOL!
They came out looking like an AK-47 round +P and this is not the case.
There is some potential here.
Cheers and thanks for sharing.
E.

1stmarine
January 7, 2011, 10:50 PM
Anyone wiht a die set on this caliber?

1stmarine
January 12, 2011, 01:18 AM
This case has a lot of potential. It is sad to see how the brainless marketing people in Remington and DPMS might have ruined this beyond repair.
Anyone has these dies?
I might have to buy them even if I am not going to reload this.
Cheers.
E.

Ridgerunner665
January 12, 2011, 03:32 AM
RCBS will probably make you a set of dies...the price I got from RCBS for a custom set of dies was $100.

1stmarine
January 25, 2011, 01:38 AM
Also yesterday I was reading an article in the Guns and Ammo magazine about the 30 Rem AR.
It looks that Remington are rethinking their approach with that disastrous campaign they started, 125gr stupid loads and ugly uppers. The case is super strong and has a lot of potential.

I started the below thread as I am always interested in any loads. The main reason is that you can seat a 150gr and 168gr bullet w/o running into COAL issues an the case can put that bullet at very decent speeds. Not like the .308 but not too far behind and reports say more versatile than the WSSMs (there might be exceptions obviously).

This article got me thinking again. The strong stubby case has something going. Something to think about. nothing beats a good high bc bullet at good speeds....

Cheers,
E.

mc223
January 25, 2011, 02:57 AM
I think the AR has enough variants and this one will be an orphan soon enough. Remington is not the same Remington of days past. The management of Remington and its sister companies have stockholders to please.These experiments may give them hope for a while and then something else will be developed to feed the market. Whats next?

The point to this is that 1stmarine wants someone else to foot the bill for his whims.:fire:
If you search just this forum you will find many of these whims.

I shoot a whim called the 6mmWOA. 6.8 SPC necked down to 6mm. Components are readily available and the damn thing is a hoot to shoot.:D A .486 G1 BC 95 g Berger VLD at mag length, doing 2800 fps. Seat em longer for single feed and a bit more powder and 3100:what: is what you get.
Will this cartridge ever see commercial manufacture?


There is only so much powder you can jam in a case and still have enough brass to hold the bullet. And unfortunately the limits have been tried.

Call Mike at D-Tech and ask what new and hot today. http://www.dtechsuperstore.com/WSSM%20page.htm

1stmarine
January 26, 2011, 01:48 AM
mc223,
I think that you are right and although Remington is trying to revive this one they probably shot themselves in the foot long ago with that disastrous campaing.
What I do know is that this case w/o necking up or down can accommodate a much better bullet, even a 168gr high BC bullet. The WSSM cartridges can't due to OAL.
So by the old simple principal, start slow and end fast (sound familiar grendel?) this can be a no brainier for mid to long range hunting. The barrels should last longer than the WSSM, feed better and accuracy reports are of pretty accurate uppers.
I just cannot understand Remington's Marketing, they have great black uppers material with DPMS, great long mags and they come up with this ugly cammo, the 4 rounds mags and the 125gr bullets that resemble more standard AK-47 ballistics.
Not a smart move from those corporate marketing 'gurus'. They have a total disconnect with reality and what most folks are looking for.
The uppers are actually well made and well squared but the cammo material is terrible. It actually bubbles with the powder cleaners. They should talk to duracoat.
Anyway anyone check out those cases @ $15/box loaded. You might be right one more great case for the history records but keep in mind here nothing to neck up or down simply seat a nicer bullet.
Cheers.
E.

okiewita40
January 26, 2011, 02:18 AM
I just picked up the Hodgdon reloading magazine yesterday. There was an article on the 30 RAR. They are saying that the factory load with a 150grain is running at 2,575 FPS. It also shows that Redding has the die sets for the 30RAR. The article also says they pushed the 110 grain TTSX to 3000 FPS. And in the 120 and 130 grain pills are in the neighborhood of 2800 to 2900 FPS. Hope this helps you all out a bit.

1stmarine
January 27, 2011, 01:21 AM
150grain is running at 2,575 FPS not bad but this is on the safe side. It can be pumped a bit. Also redding has the dies?!!!!
Great news! Many thanks for sharing!!!

I am not interested in any high bore low grain bullets. This is the type of advertisement that might have killed this round along with the poor marketing strategy from Remington when the case can do much more. For bad bullets we already have several AR-15 chamberings. I am looking for some good 150-168grainers.

The case is super strong and feeds flawlessly.

mc223
January 27, 2011, 04:19 AM
Buy one. Go shoot it. Come back and tell us how it shoots. We can all read the published articles. I want to hear from you what this cartridge does, not what someone else says or quick load predicts.

Now Good Day Sir















I SAID GOOD DAY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

CMC
January 27, 2011, 06:20 PM
Here you go .30 AR Remington (Hodgdon Data) Reloading Data for up to 160 grain bullts including sierra , hornady and Nosler Ballistic tip.
http://www.loaddata.com/members/search_detail.cfm?MetallicID=5683&caliber=.30&caliberid=12&header=.30%20Caliber%20Reloading%20Data


Also RCBS makes dies for about 60 bucks http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=185455


http://www.loaddata.com/members/search_detail.cfm?MetallicID=5683&caliber=.30&caliberid=12&header=.30%20Caliber%20Reloading%20Data

1stmarine
January 27, 2011, 06:37 PM
CMC,
Many thanks I didn't know RCBS had the dies too! I will go to the local shop today and order a set and then try the loads.
Cheers,
E.

1stmarine
January 27, 2011, 09:37 PM
mc223,
That's the idea, to test it. The weather at this time of the year doesn't allow me to do any meaningful testing but I can still work on the charts and the bullets and I am going to order the dies whether I end up reloading this round or not. Here it is worthless to bring a chrony out to achieve any sort of testing in 2 feet of snow.

If you see any articles in this trajectory please share them with us as I could not find anything other than some few 'sucesstories' from remington and some other folks criticizing the case w/o even understanding why. Probably due to the bad marketing which is understandable.

You mentioned there are many articles talking about the potential of this round but all that I could find is mostly the opposite. Quick Load is a very accurate software used by many professionals world wide. It is not just any ballistic software but what it predicts is many times doable. That's why I do the research during the winter to fight cabin fever and then workout that theory when the weather starts to warm up.

Many thanks for your interest.

Cheers,
E.

It is not just what your forum can do for you but what you can do for your forum.

CMC
January 28, 2011, 01:32 PM
You are very welcome.
I really like this round a lot and will start reloading it at some point.
Thanks for your service
Semper Fi

Asherdan
January 28, 2011, 01:57 PM
This cartridge has gotten my interest as well. I find the 7mm concept (http://www.realguns.com/articles/263.htm) maybe even more interesting.

Wolfgang2000
January 28, 2011, 03:59 PM
The 30 remington is a rimless 30-30. It's also the case the 6.8SPC round was based. Just FYI.

1stmarine
January 28, 2011, 10:02 PM
Hi Wolfgang2000,
In some places online it says the parent case is the 30-30 but I believe it cannot be. The diameter, wall thikness, everything is diferent. Also the 30-30 nominal pressure is 38Kpsi.

I might be wrong but I thought this case was based on the .450 Bushmaster and this one at the same time is based on the .284 Win.

I believe I read this in a paper from Remington or something but a long time ago so I might be wrong.

Remington on purpose altered the diameter of the bolt face slightly so it would have a stronger base and web. I believe that this case is so strong that can handle extra pressure w/o problems. Not as strong as WSSM but it can seat much better bullets in the AR15 due to COAL. That's the whole idea with this thread.

Also the 6.8 was derived form the 30 Remington that was derived from the 30-30 but already with significant changes to handle the extra pressure. Even a reviewed chamber called the 6.8 Spec2 chamber is the only certified to handle the highest pressures.

Thanks
E.

Wolfgang2000
January 29, 2011, 05:33 PM
Marine you are probably right. I don't believe that they took a 30-30 case and made the 30 rem. I do believe that they were trying to duplicate the 30-30 in a rimless case.

1stmarine
January 29, 2011, 10:35 PM
Wolfgang2000,
Thanks for clarifying. Actually you got me thinking and went and found this...
http://www.rifleshootermag.com/ammunition/RS_30remingtonar_200904/

Whatever it is the beginning, it is clear that this stubby case can take some pretty nice bullets and put them downrange at nice speeds.

I just cannot understand Remington. Those marketing 'gurus' behind the campaign for this round should be all fired. They missed a huge opportunity here. People saw the 125gr korelokts and thought, why bother. And I don't blame them but when you look at it closer it is a different story. I even read folks comparing this to the AK-47 standard round. I can see why when you look at their terrible go-to-market campaign.

Cheers,
E.

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