why "assault weapons" will be banned


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bfason
December 28, 2003, 08:42 PM
Maybe not next year, but eventually.

Support mounting for stronger "assault weapons" ban (http://www.jointogether.org/gv/news/features/reader/0,2061,567686,00.html)

The survey, conducted by Opinion Research Corporation International in early September, "found that 62 percent of the more than 1,000 Americans surveyed said that they favored renewing the ban, including 47 percent who said they 'strongly' favor renewal. The survey also found that 63 percent favored strengthening the ban by preventing the gun industry from manufacturing commercial models of military-style assault weapons."

"Susan Peschin, CFA's Firearms Project director and author of a report based on the survey, said that one of the most surprising outcomes to her was the strong support for the ban from gun owners. 'We found not only that a majority of gun owners support renewing the ban, but support measures to strengthen the ban,' she said."
-----

Of course, they did not define "assault weapon." The McCarthy-Conyers bill ("Assault Weapons Ban and Law Enforcement Protection Act of 2003," H.R. 2038) goes so far as to define even the M1 Carbine specifically as an "assault weapon." The definition of "assault weapon" also includes includes any "semiautomatic rifle or shotgun originally designed for military or law enforcement use, or a firearm based on the design of such a firearm, that is not particularly suitable for sporting purposes, as determined by the Attorney General." Am I wrong here, or could this could include virtually every rifle sold in the US since introduction of the Winchester 1903? I suppose it would depend on whatever some future attorney general (Schumer) decided.

I doubt that the AW ban will be renewed next year, but over the longterm - say, the next ten years or so - we will undoubtedly see the return of the "assault weapons" ban.

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Lone_Gunman
December 28, 2003, 08:49 PM
I think the ban will be renewed, and I think the Republicans will be the ones to do it.

Some great thinker in their party will decide they will get more votes than they will lose by renewing it.

UnknownSailor
December 28, 2003, 08:51 PM
I'd like to see a list of the questions that were asked. And exactly which "gun owners" they asked for this "study".

P95Carry
December 28, 2003, 08:52 PM
I desperately want to be optimistic ..... but I am afraid at present .. pessimism still wins out.:(

Zundfolge
December 28, 2003, 09:05 PM
The survey, conducted by Opinion Research Corporation International in early September...
What they don't tell you is where the survey was conducted. Berkeley California? New York City? Out side the Democratic National Convention? At the Million Mom March rally?

No sir, I don't believe the numbers.

If the survey had even an ounce of credibility, you would have linked the story on one of the major news outlet's web sites, not on http://www.jointogether.org (which is a bunch of progressives who put up their web site to "Take Action Against Substance Abuse and Gun Violence") :rolleyes:

Lone_Gunman
December 28, 2003, 09:09 PM
No i believe their numbers.

Average American thinks assault weapons are bad. Spraying full auto from the hip, killing children on playgrounds. Media has successfully convinced them of this.

We tend to think everyone out there is like us, but we represent a very small minority when it comes to guns

Greg Bell
December 28, 2003, 09:27 PM
The average American isn't who decides on these issues, thankfully. The AWB is done for. Rove won't let that hot-potato get to W's desk during an election year. Hell, the House has enough votes to repeal it! Just pray that there is no new uber-Columbine and we are home free...for a while.

GHB

bfason
December 28, 2003, 09:28 PM
See this NBC News/Wall Street Journal Poll
http://www.pollingreport.com/guns.htm

"About 10 years ago, Congress banned the sale and manufacture of assault weapons. In your view, should Congress keep or end this ban?"

Yes, keep ban 78%
No, end ban 16%
Not sure 5%

I hate to say it, folks, but the writing is on the wall. The Dems will push the issue, the media will soon step up its propaganda campaign aimed at soccer moms, and the Republicans will eventually cave. Check out this editorial in today's New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/28/opinion/28SUN1.html). Essentially, the GOP is no longer "conservative" - whatever that word might once have meant. The GOP's key allegiance is to corporate America, these people are used to giving orders, and eventually they will want to disarm Americans, especially the "disloyal" ones, and keep careful tabs on the rest.

Governments love unarmed peasants.

Greg Bell
December 28, 2003, 09:39 PM
I'm sorry. I've got to get a ride on my black helicopter back to my Trilateral Comission meeting.:evil:

Sheesh, you guys worry too much. Rove is well aware that a poll can get any result necessary. More importantly, he is aware that gun control is a loser issue. No one really cares about gun control. Further, the pro-gun lobby is a lot more powerful, especially with Republicans.

I'll tell you what, why don't you guys all chip in an buy me some P7M13 mags in celebration if the ban goes away! If it doesn't, I'll buy me some M13 mags.:D

hillbilly
December 28, 2003, 10:15 PM
All you pessimists, look up the vote counts of the original AWB passage in 1994.

See by what margin the bill passed the House and the Senate.

Check out who controlled the House, the Senate, and the White House after you count those numbers.

Then, check out what happened in 1994 and in elections since then.

The AWB ban will sunset, as long as you remind your Congresscritters of the math since 1992................

hillbilly

Standing Wolf
December 28, 2003, 10:38 PM
The AWB ban will sunset, as long as you remind your Congresscritters of the math since 1992.

I believe you're right—and it will return the first time the leftist extremists think they can get away with it.

ninenot
December 28, 2003, 10:43 PM
Dear Greg and Hillbilly,

Ever hear of Campaign Finance Reform?

Ever hear of Prescription Drug/Medicare Reform?

Ever hear of the Fabulous Increases in Department of Education spending?

Remember the Patriot Act?--the one with (we now learn) Bank-Tattler mandates??

Oh--yeah---remember all that crap the Administration fed us about "no contracts for engineering firms in NON-Coalition Nations!!!!"?

Well, fellows, Karl Rove was part of every one of those little problems, and he will be part of the extension/broadening of the AWB. Karl Rove is a whore. Whatever will get GWB re-elected is what Karl Rove wants.

And since GWB is doing quite well in the polls, he doesn't need NRA/RKBA folks any more.

Wanna bet on this one, boys??

P95Carry
December 28, 2003, 10:46 PM
I am still feeling burdened with pessimism ...

Tell ya what Greg Bell ..... if all does go thru OK ... I might well help you with those mags!:D

hillbilly
December 28, 2003, 10:47 PM
StandingWolf, you are exactly correct.

The Leftist gun-grabbers will never rest.

Which is why, after the AWB passage, and the Brady Bill, and Schumer and Feinstein and Blageovich and Lautenberg and Clinton and Clinton and all the other Dem anti-gun fanatics, I will never ever ever again vote for any Democrat as long as I live.

If I face a situation where there are equally awful Democrats and Republicans on the ticket, I will either write in Bill the Cat or the word "NO."

hillbilly

riverdog
December 28, 2003, 10:50 PM
The AWB will sunset and the fight for a new ban will begin anew. George Bush has basically told the Congress that he doesn't want any AWB legislation on his desk because he will sign it and he knows that nobody wants that. Why else make such noise about it? He will sign it and gave fair warning to not allow him the opportunity.

For those of us in CA, the issue is moot as we have our own bans (plural), tougher than the '94 ban with no sunset. The sunset of the ban may be the motivation I need to move and take advantage...

Jeff White
December 28, 2003, 10:51 PM
hillbilly said;
If I face a situation where there are equally awful Democrats and Republicans on the ticket, I will either write in Bill the Cat or the word "NO."

So is it going to be Bill the Cat or NO in November 2004?

Jeff

hillbilly
December 28, 2003, 11:11 PM
Right now, looking like Bill the Cat.......But the Presidential race doesn't really matter that much anyway, as far as the AWB goes.

The real races that will really matter are all House and Senate races.

Bush is going to win in a landslide anyway, and all that matters is getting filibuster-proof majorities in the House and Senate and making sure that DiFi, Schumer, etc are not the heads of any important committees.

Even if Shrub has pledged to sign an extension of the AWB, he won't have an AWB extension to sign if the gun-grabbers don't have a majority in the Congress.

So for Pres, Bill the Cat........Or maybe I'll write in Mighty Mouse, instead?

But I intend to hammer the party of DiFi and Schumer and Lautenberg and Clinton and Kennedy, and all the other leftist gun grabbers upon the anvil of the ballot box come election time.

hillbilly

Zundfolge
December 29, 2003, 01:12 AM
The real races that will really matter are all House and Senate races.

Amen!

What we need is as many Ron Paul types as possible ... then it won't even matter if Hillary gets into the whitehouse.


If that fails, maybe we'll get lucky and John Titor wasn't a hoax :neener:

Daedalus
December 29, 2003, 01:14 AM
If the Assault Weapons Ban gets renewed, I will send the torn remains of my old Republican Party voters registration to the RNC and will place a crisp new Libertarian one in my wallet.

Harry Tuttle
December 29, 2003, 05:29 AM
IMHO, if you stop a new AW ban in Maryland this March,
you will derail the Brady Campaign on a National Level.

TheOtherOne
December 29, 2003, 07:34 AM
Average American thinks assault weapons are bad. Spraying full auto from the hip, killing children on playgrounds. Media has successfully convinced them of thisAgreed. I believe the numbers too. In fact, I think it's pretty great that only 67 percent of the public has been brainwashed. Somehow 33 percent managed to grasp the truth.

Zundfolge
December 29, 2003, 10:42 AM
Average American thinks assault weapons are bad.
Average American doesn't vote.

tfurey19
December 29, 2003, 10:45 AM
I often wondered how it was that so many people have been lead to extermination willingly over the years without any fuss. Then I visit this board and understand why.

WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE? If the politicians realize that gun owners are convinced that the ban will die they will pay a higher political price for favoring renewal. GET ON THE PHONES NOW! Make sure you keep bothering your reps, especially in the House.

Remember that if this ban is renewed there will be a ban on pump actions and bolt actions as well in the next 5 years. THIS IS NOT ONLY A RENEWAL BUT A MOVE TO BAN ALL GUNS.

I would suggest you all look at Australia. Its history in this matter is identical to what is going on here. Australia is the model the antis are using and the AW Ban is just another piece of the puzzle.

zahc
December 29, 2003, 11:03 AM
Some great thinker in their party will decide they will get more votes than they will lose by renewing it.

...because republicans know gun owners will continue to vote for the lesser of two evils-republican.

hillbilly
December 29, 2003, 11:12 AM
As some have pointed out on this thread, there are some really awful, anti-gun Republicans.

However, I challenge someone on this thread to make and post the following list.

First, list since 1994 all the really, awful, horrible Republicans on gun rights. Limit it to only Republicans in Congress.....either house.

And I mean awful. Not someone who slightly modified or compromised a bit on a bascially pro-gun bill. I mean awful.

I mean Republicans who have written or sponsored patently anti-gun legislation. You know, like the bill to ban handguns that comes up at least once a year but which dies in committee?

Republicans who helped write or sponsored the AWB or the Brady Bill or Brady II or supported similar things. Republicans who made statements in public about their desire to disarm American citizens. Or Republicans who made statements about supporting RKBA and then voted for some horrible, awful anti-gun bill.

Now, after you've made the list of Republicans and their anti-gun sins, make the same list for Democrats since 1994

See which list is longer. If you list their awful sins against RKBA, which list would have more awful, hideous, disgusting things in it?

Just name the high profile Congressional Democrats who have made passionate public demands for immediate disarmament of civilians and compare that list to Congressional Republicans who have made the same demands.

hillbilly

Swamprabbit
December 29, 2003, 11:16 AM
It has been my observation over the years that those who favor gun control, typically won't vote "against" someone primarily for their stand on that issue. Gun owners, on the other hand, WILL vote against someone primarily on that issue. I feel this is what the politicians now understand and why they feel gun control is a "dead" issue.

The House is a perfect place to set this battle because each House member will vote based upon the feelings in his/her disctrict. Those against renewal will be safe from any national outcry for their actions and those on the fence can use their vote to make deals on other legislation without suffering any from their districts.

As for popular opinion, I have resolved myself to the fact that pro RTKBA will ALWAYS be in the polling minority. That is why we have constitutional rights to prevent basic rights from being taken away by mood swings of the majority.

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