I love the .25 ACP!


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elcaminoariba
January 8, 2011, 04:31 AM
I've had so many problems with .22 rimfires (too many duds in bulk packs) that I finally test fired my Jimenez .25 last night. No major problems at all. Enough kick to get your attention. Hollow points available. This thing'll kill an intruder.

I want to know who else is tired of issues with long cased rimfires and likes the .25 acp. This isn't about a handgun per se, but about the .25 cartridge that so many people like to crap on. I think it makes a great backup.

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NukemJim
January 8, 2011, 04:50 AM
This thing'll kill an intruder.

Yes a .25 can kill someone, no arguments.

The real question is will it stop an attack before the attacker kills you?

A syringe full of Ebolavirus contaminated blood that is injected into someone will also kill them but not quickly enough to stop an attacker.

NukemJim
PS IMHO neither .22 nor .25 are suitable for defensive use unless nothing else is available. This is just my opinion and as always I could be wrong. NJ

elcaminoariba
January 8, 2011, 04:58 AM
Attackers tend to run the second they discover their victim is armed, even without a shot fired. They really run with a bullet in them (if they can). They usually don't take the time to discuss ballistics when they're bleeding and in a hurry to exit. If they are able to run with a bullet in them, they'll get arrested at the ER if they live long enough. I wouldn't recommend the .25 for bear protection tho :D

Zoogster
January 8, 2011, 05:24 AM
A centerfire round is certainly more reliable than a rimfire round.
From really short barrels it is also often more powerful than a .22LR.

The downside is the primer itself nevermind the entire round costs as much as a whole .22lr round.
Removing the typically significant cost savings of a small caliber plinker.





Attackers tend to run the second they discover their victim is armed, even without a shot fired. They really run with a bullet in them (if they can).

That may be fine against unarmed people.
However most situations that will justify lethal force are those where the assailant is armed.
It is kinda like a good knife, you may be able to defend yourself with it well but considering its use is typically only justified if the attacker is armed, it suddenly seems a lot less adequate.

killchain
January 8, 2011, 06:58 AM
If you're going to go that small, just get a .380acp.

CZ223
January 8, 2011, 07:10 AM
380 is as small as I go. Also, no matter the cartridge, I want a gun that is reliable. Get an LCP or a Kel-Tec in 380 and you will be much better armed. I saw a used Kel-Tec for $180 the other day and would have bought it if I didn't already own two LCPs.

1911Tuner
January 8, 2011, 07:15 AM
While it's true that most of the time, if someone knows that he's been shot, his first reaction is to try to get to a doctor. He doesn't know what he's been shot with and he doesn't care.

But don't count on it. With the little bores like the .22 and .25 and even the .32s and .380s...he may not even realize that he's been shot, and if he's determined, he can do you a world of hurt before the shot takes effect...IF it takes effect.

If all you have is a .22 or a .25, you have to be cold about it. Shoot for an area that will produce pain and fear. Face, neck, and groin shots are the most reliable, and even that may not have the desired effect. Shoot until the gun is empty, or the attacker breaks it off or falls, or until he catches fire.

lloveless
January 8, 2011, 07:17 AM
I was on the rescue squad. We picked up a 20 year old that had been shot in the forhead with a .25 by his uncle(the kid was drunk and threatening his mother). The kid dropped like a rock. When we got there barely coherent(bullet vs alcohol?). He walked out of the ER 2 hours later and still lives today.
Like others I would/do carry larger caliber weapons. Very few affordable/good quality arms are made these days for the .25 anyway(Jimenez isn't a quality arm).
ll

22-rimfire
January 8, 2011, 08:40 AM
I can't say I love the 25ACP. Lots of noise and no punch. With 22's, you need to stop buying bulk packs if you want reliable 22LR ammo. Part of the reliablity issue with 22's is the gun; dirty guns make for more misfires. I would prefer a 22LR myself over the 25ACP even though ignition is technically more reliable in 25ACP. I would choose a revolver, so if there is a misfire, you simply pull the trigger again to cycle the cylinder to the next round. The Smith 317 should do the job just as well or better as a cheapo 25ACP and I would feel safer with it in my pocket. If the small pocket auto is your thing, I'd go with a 380ACP where you begin to see some signficant preformance differences in a pocket auto as compared to the 22LR.

I have not looked at preformance issues with HP's in 25ACP in a while. Last I recall is that the HP does measurebly no better than ball ammo and ball (FMJ) ammo is more reliable feeding in the little 25 autos.

heeler
January 8, 2011, 08:59 AM
Perhaps I am just lucky but so far I have never fired a .22 that was a dud.
Maybe it will happen in the future.
Some years ago I was reading the rants of some gun guru who said that the .32 ACP was invented to get the .25 ACP off it's knees.
Or some such.
I daily carry a .380 and I might under the right circumstances carry a .32 ACP but I think that's as far down the scale as I am willing to go on a daily basis.

vito
January 8, 2011, 09:00 AM
Many years ago I owned a "Baby Browning" 25 acp semi auto. It was really tiny. Once when I accidentally took it with me on an airplane (long before screenings, x-ray machines, metal detectors, etc.) it fell from my pocket onto the seat and a passing stewardess (not yet a "flight attendant") said: "Sir, you dropped your cigarette lighter". This was my only handgun for a few years until I was on a camping trip and heard the grunt of what I think was a black bear and looked down at this tiny gun and decided I needed something with a bit more punch. I traded the Browning for a 380 Browning and have regretted giving up this little gun ever since. As I recall it, it was much smaller than the Ruger LCP that I now own, easy to clean and as reliable as the Ruger. I wonder if that little Browning is now worth something had I kept it.

Onmilo
January 8, 2011, 09:07 AM
<<<Been looking for a decent Walther Model 8 for several years now.
Somebody MUST like .25acps because you can't touch a decent Model 8 for less than $600 U.S. now and spare original magazines cost $80-$100 EACH.

Same thing goes for the Walther TPH in .25 acp but the magazines are a lot less expensive,,,

22-rimfire
January 8, 2011, 09:29 AM
I ran into a guy that was shot with a 25 auto... the punk emptied the gun on him at close range. I believe he was hit 5 times and still lived. He thought he was dead and saying his prayers.

The Bushmaster
January 8, 2011, 09:34 AM
I tend to agree with all the above, but where or what .22's are you buying that have duds in them. I've been using CCI Mini Mags for years and haven't had any "duds". They have all went down range. Must be those cheap bulk packs again.

PT1911
January 8, 2011, 09:38 AM
Sorry, IMO, the 25 is the most useless caliber in major production. Others may think otherwise, and are more than entitled to their opinion, but honestly, i would rather carry my P-22 loaded with stingers or velocitors than any 25 acp. That said, i will never carry a .22 either unless there is simply no other option, but i cannot foresee any such situation. I will stick to my 9mm, and when occasions required, a .380.

On that note, i will contribute a story about the power of the 25... a friend's father, while working as CID agent many years ago, was caught up in an altercation when his partner was shot with a 25 acp (shot in the side.) so, the friend falls down, the altercation continues and eventually ends with the "suspect" in cuffs. Upon inspection his partner, my friend's father found that the 25 penetrated the first layer of his partner's leather jacket and ended up stopping in his pocket and left a bruise on the skin beneath (think paintball on bare skin..) SO, to the 25 (which is also more expensive btw) i say no thanks... To the Raven 25, i say HELL NO!

To end it politely, YMMV!

22-rimfire
January 8, 2011, 09:46 AM
CCI Mini Mags are generally THE most reliable 22LR ammo available that is priced modestly. Remington branded 22LR tend to have more misfires than Federal. I would not load a gun used for protection with Remington 22LR ammo unless that is all I had. Not sure about Winchester as I seldom shoot any.

cambeul41
January 8, 2011, 10:32 AM
A female co-worker is a believer in .25. She shot a home invader three times COM, and he had to go to the hospital. But he did so under his own power.

hcso617
January 8, 2011, 10:39 AM
As a Police Officer, I carried a .25 Beretta Jet Fire in my back pocket as my #3 gun. I have to say after seeing a bunch of shootings with that caliber, it's the only gun I have ever sold and not regretted.

AIM
January 8, 2011, 10:59 AM
Consider that the muzzle energy of the .25 is only in the 60-80 ft. lbs. range while the .22 Stinger is almost 200 ft. lbs. The .25 is not my idea of a carry or SD gun.

Tommygunn
January 8, 2011, 11:34 AM
My aunt used to carry a .25.
OTOH I've been told that .22RF is actually more powerful.
I have .22 weapons but I don't use them for self defense purposes, the smallest I have is .32.
Really, with the guns available today, a .380 or even a 9mm. would be best.

mljdeckard
January 8, 2011, 11:49 AM
A friend of mine had one when we were teenagers. We would take it out in the desert and river bottoms, zap this and that with it. The results were never predictable.

We showed it to a friend of ours who was an old cop. He took off his jacket and showed us a scar on his arm, from when he was a cop in Vegas back in the 60s. It was right below the scar from his smallpox vaccine, and looked the same. He said that he was a motorcycle cop, and he got zapped by someone driving the opposite direction. Said it felt like getting whacked with a fly swatter. He stopped, looked at himself, and he didn't realize he had been shot until he took his jacket off. He felt his upper arm, and the bullet rubbed off in his hand, he still has it.

Now, when I shoot someone, They may react many different ways. No bullet is guaranteed to do anything. But one result I KNOW I don't want, is for the guy to say; "OW!! That HURT!!"

I agree with Jeff Cooper's counsel, paraphrased to something like; "If you do ever carry a .25 ACP, do not load it. If it is loaded, you might be tempted to shoot someone with it. If you do shoot someone with it, and they find out, they will be very upset."

I agree with others. I would rather gamble on rimfire ignition than .25 stopping likelihood.

Onward Allusion
January 8, 2011, 12:11 PM
"If you do ever carry a .25 ACP, do not load it. If it is loaded, you might be tempted to shoot someone with it. If you do shoot someone with it, and they find out, they will be very upset."

Mr. Cooper was sage on most things, BUT I can't agree with the above quip. It's a downright silly quote.

As for the effectiveness of the .25ACP out of a 2" barrel... Let's put it this way. All things being equal, the .25ACP is more reliable and packs the same or more "punch" (if you can even call it that) than a 22LR from the same length barrel.

If one has a sturdy stainless steel pocket pistol chambered in .25ACP and is a masochist who handloads the round, then it becomes an almost viable SD weapon.

hso
January 8, 2011, 12:32 PM
There is truth in the gun you have on you is better than the gun in the safe when referring to the convenience of small handguns firing small calibers, BUT we're Interested in stopping an attacker and not in killing them. Stopping an attack is far more easily done with a larger caliber than the .25 if you are forced to shoot. To that end, small calibers like the .22/.25 aren't something we should willingly select if we consider the worst case scenario we carry a handgun to save ourselves from.

SoulLessGinger
January 8, 2011, 12:35 PM
As a Police Officer, I carried a .25 Beretta Jet Fire in my back pocket as my #3 gun. I have to say after seeing a bunch of shootings with that caliber, it's the only gun I have ever sold and not regretted.

I have found the same thing. At work (firefighter in inner-city) we go to shootings on a regular basis. Seen people shot with all manner of bullets. Have yet to go to some one shot with a .25 that actually died. Had one guy take a round point blank to the face, bullet went in where the nostril meets the face, went around the cheekbone and exited behind the ear. Guy was standing on the street corner waiting for us after the shooter fled.

Some of this might have to do with the fact that many people are actually carrying hollow-points in this caliber. OP, FYI, this is a horrible idea. There is just not enough energy there for penetration AND expansion to occur. The best performing HP's in .25 ACP (when they do expand) penetrate only 6" of ballistic geletin. And, if I'm not mistaken, the skin alone is equivalent to 3-4" of geletin. Not good.

Carrying a .25, in a gun fight, you would be completely outgunned by just about anyone with any kind of decent pistol. If your attacker is unarmed he will probably just flee at the sight of a gun, as you say (or he may beat you to death with your empty pistol). But the bottom line is, I don't carry my gun to defend myself against unarmed people. I carry it on the outside chance that I will encounter an armed attacker. And in that case, a mouse gun is at best a back-up gun.

HOWARD J
January 8, 2011, 01:00 PM
I have a Walther PPK & Bauer in.25 acp.
These SS pistols are pretty to look at--but--I would not trust them to save my life.

GRIZ22
January 8, 2011, 02:03 PM
Attackers tend to run the second they discover their victim is armed, even without a shot fired.

This illustrates another challenge the 25 faces and that is they are all small. Makes them harder for the BG to see. Frank Serpico pulled a 25 on a hooker he was arresting when working vice. The hooker didn't believe it was a genuine gun until Serpico put a shot into the mattress. Skeeter Skelton said the 25 (or 22) is not a round to take to a gunfight but you might be able to bluff your way out. I agree with him on this point.

range while the .22 Stinger is almost 200 ft. lbs.

191 according to CCI's ballistics chart but keep in mind that would be out of a rifle. Substantially less (close to the 25) out of a pistol.

AIM
January 8, 2011, 02:22 PM
Substantially less (close to the 25) out of a pistol.

pistol 1395 ft/sec - 138 ft. lbs. still double the .25

cleardiddion
January 8, 2011, 02:23 PM
Over this Christmas holiday I've been carrying a .25, really a matter of circumstances rather than choice.
Perhaps it's not a elephant gun or heck even a manstopper but the way I figure it's better than nothing at all.

macadore
January 8, 2011, 02:32 PM
Attackers tend to run the second they discover their victim is armed, even without a shot fired. They really run with a bullet in them (if they can). They usually don't take the time to discuss ballistics when they're bleeding and in a hurry to exit. If they are able to run with a bullet in them, they'll get arrested at the ER if they live long enough. I wouldn't recommend the .25 for bear protection tho

Your statement might hold true for “Normal people”, but mean dysfunctional people with a good mad on usually don't stop until they're unconscious. People who are drunk or drugged up can be the same way. Gang bangers are notorious for not going down as long as they can still fight. They're more worried about humiliation than death.

Onward Allusion
January 8, 2011, 02:49 PM
1395 ft/sec - 138 ft. lbs. still double the .25 No. Out of a 2" barrel, the .22LR Stinger will give about 1000fps or about 72fpe, which is about 8 lbs more than a normal load .25ACP. Like I'd said in my previous post, if one is a masochist, one can hand load and get it close to 100fpe if the pistol is a non soft metal piece. With that said, neither is a good SD round (even the Stinger from a short barrel).

22-rimfire
January 8, 2011, 03:27 PM
I believe, the 138 ft lb estimate is for a rifle versus a handgun and not even a shorty.

I like 22's A LOT, but for self defense, it is not the best choice. Better than rocks of course. I generally favor 380acp or larger for this task. Personally, I use a 38spl revolver mostly or sometimes a Glock Model 23 (40 S&W). But I am not a fanatic on carry in general and frequently choose not to carry, but have the loaded gun with me in my vehicle which I often work out of.

Frozen North
January 8, 2011, 04:47 PM
I was a kid who grew up on a farm. Dad would let me shoot anything in the cabinet except his beautiful and prized Browning A-5 with no supervision. I did allot of penetration experiments because in my mind, a gun was only as good as what it would shoot through. The 30-06 and Mosin Nagant would shoot through a fairly large tree, the .22 rifles would pierce the body panels of the "shootin car", the .22 revolver would make a good dent. I found that the .25 auto pistol barely chipped the paint! I goofed with the .25 some more and found that it would not penetrate 3 paper feed sacks! I am confident that a jacket and sweat shirt would stop this round as well as a vest would.

If I pulled that pistol on an armed attacker, I am confident it would get me shot or stabbed. I would rather comply with an attacker and hope for mercy than escalate the situation by firing a toy noise maker at him.

Owen Sparks
January 8, 2011, 05:56 PM
I saw an attempted suiside with a .25 when I was a kid. A notorious drunk was having an argument with his wife on his front lawn several houses down. He staggered out by the street and held a small shiney silver object to his head and POP! He fell to the ground and lay there as his wife ran screaming back into the house. After a while as nobody paid him any attention he finaly got up and staggered back to the front porch and sat down. That is when the ambulance arived. The neighbors all gathered to see the specticle. As the paramedics worked onm him it looked like someone had stubbed a cigar out on the side of his head. The tiny bullet had actually bounced off his skull! After medical treatment for the minor injury he was taken to the behaviorial health unit. That is when I learned that small habndguns don't do the job.

christcorp
January 8, 2011, 06:38 PM
Yea; personally, the 22LR is a better caliber than the 25acp. And if you understand the difference between bulk pack plinking ammo, and some good quality ammo like CCI stingers, then you know you can get very good reliable results from the 22LR. Basically, there is nothing better about the 25acp compared to the 22LR if you're using quality ammo. Matter of fact; with ammo like Stingers and some other high-velocities, you can do better than the 25acp. Also, with the 22LR, you can buy a box of 500 rounds for $20 and practice 20X more often.

And being it sounds like you already have an love your 25acp; and that is perfectly fine if you want to stay with that; at least realize that using Hollow Point ammo is the WORST thing you can do with that ammo. It's a small blowback pistol. You need the best and most reliable feeding possible. You also need as much penetration as possible. Round nose will guarantee you the best feeding and penetration. Whether it's FMJ, LRN, or maybe even buffalo bore or similar might make a hot round. Either way; stay with penetration and feeding, and stay away from hollow points. Just my opinion.

speedway
January 8, 2011, 07:28 PM
Last week I traded in my Beretta .25 and will never look back.

LightningMan
January 8, 2011, 07:42 PM
I've had good luck with .22 LR CCI Blazer bulk pak ammo, probably gone through 6-7 525 rd. paks with only 1 dud. Another good brand is Centurion, a little more money, by a couple of bucks but it seems to be more accurate when shooting for bench rest accuracy. LM

mljdeckard
January 8, 2011, 09:47 PM
If I thought that the sight of a gun deterring a bad guy was a good plan in any way, I would start carrying a toy gun tomorrow.

FIVETWOSEVEN
January 8, 2011, 10:30 PM
A Kel-Tec P3AT or Ruger LCP is alittle bit bigger than a Colt 1908 yet offers so much more power than .25 ACP, Even a .32 ACP is much better.

makarovnik
January 8, 2011, 10:37 PM
If the barrel is less than 2" long the .25acp has better penetration than the .22LR. I like the .25acp except for the cost.

usp9
January 8, 2011, 10:37 PM
39 posts and no pictures! Here's my one and only .25acp. I am very surprised at the difference in recoil between the .22 TPH and the .25acp TPH, which is much more powerful it seems. Like the differnce between 9mm and .40. If I had to choose, I'd pick a .25 over a .22 anyday.

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i186/ripley16/Pistols/Walther/tph25011.jpg

ET
January 9, 2011, 02:43 PM
The first self defense pistol I bought was a little 25acp. I took it into a place I called on because they wanted to see it. While we were passing it around the wearhouse guy came, in picked the gun up and said "I got shot with one of these things in Florence, SC last summer". I asked him what it did to him. He said "It made me so mad that I took it away from the guy and beat him senseless". I sold it the next day. Now I feel naked if I'm only carrying my 380acp bug gun. I usually carry a 357sig CC & keep a 45acp gun in the nightstand & a 12 gauge by the bed. I'd rather error on the side of too much fire power than to get caught with less than I need to live.

1911Tuner
January 9, 2011, 03:07 PM
. While we were passing it around the wearhouse guy came, in picked the gun up and said "I got shot with one of these things in Florence, SC last summer". I asked him what it did to him. He said "It made me so mad that I took it away from the guy and beat him senseless".

It can go either way. A couple friends of mine...brothers...saw a guy get shot in the chest with a Raven .25 pistol in the parking lot of a local honky tonk. He went to his knees...asked the shooter what he'd done to him...fell face forward and died.

Not saying that a .25 is a good choice, but they can be pretty wicked. It depends on bullet placement.

Ala Dan
January 9, 2011, 03:38 PM
Not seriously thinking of such, I hope~? Better choices for a defensive firearm
are out there, my friend~! :eek: :uhoh: ;)

usp9
January 9, 2011, 07:59 PM
I have a Walther PPK & Bauer in.25 acp.

Who made a stainless .25acp Walther PPK, I wonder?

HisSoldier
January 9, 2011, 10:02 PM
I bought the HP's just because I was having trouble finding

You should hang on to that Walther TPH, they are getting very hard to come by.

I have quite a few .25's, probably at least a dozen, I load them up in my progressive press to well over 1000 FPS in 35 grain HP. I bought the HP's just because I was having trouble finding ball.

I wouldn't carry one for self defense if I thought I might have to use it, but really that's what selection choice is always about, isn't it? If I knew I'd get into a gunfight, after every conceivable idea of trying to get out of it, I'd pack my 10MM if I was limited to a handgun.

I shoot target with the little .25's, they are tons of fun! The best ones for that are the Astra Cubs, far from being the most expensive, but certainly the most accurate.

CZguy
January 9, 2011, 11:16 PM
I have an old baby Browning made in 1915. It's a great deal of fun for plinking with, but the ammo costs of the .25 don't let us shoot it very often.

Depending on how I'm dressed, my carry guns range from .380 to .357 Sig.

I only carry the .380 in the dead of summer when that's all that I can hide.

PRM
January 10, 2011, 07:05 AM
Back in the mid 70s when I became an LEO a lot of the veteran officers of that era carried .25 autos as a back-up. The Berettas, Colts, and Brownings were pretty common. Can't say as I know of any officer that ever used them. But, they were carried a lot. I no longer own a firearm in that caliber, but, over the years I have owned all three brands.

I have worked suicides where the little .25 was effective. So, they do work.

There are better choices available today. Although, it definitely would not be my "go-to" caliber of choice, before the recent .380 - mini 9mm flood of the market, it was a popular caliber. I remember a few years ago, seeing an old Colt .25 that had been carried through WWI by a US soldier (no claims of usage or effectiveness).

Onmilo
January 10, 2011, 09:52 AM
For the naysayers, I had a friend who was killed with a .25 auto, guy shot at him five times and hit him once, in the heart.
He bled out and died before help could arrive.
While the shot didn't knock him down or anything like that, it took all the sap and wind right out of him. He walked to a porch and sat down and that is where he died.

Another buddy was shot in the eye socket and permanently blinded by a .25.
Destroyed the eyeball as a matter of fact.
Bullet hit the top of the orbital socket, zipped around the back and came back out the bottom of the orbital socket.
In this case the shot DID knock him down and again, this low powered gunshot took any and all ambitions right out of him.

Don't kid yourself that the .25 acp is a toy or a BB gun. These pistols have killed a lot of people who thought along those lines until they found out different, the hard and fatal way.

rvehock
January 10, 2011, 10:28 AM
Here is my Astra Cub .25ACP, one helleva well-built and accurate pistol, I keep it loaded with 50gr Fiocchi FMJ.

http://vehock.dyndns.org/Astra%20Cub/Cub3_small.jpg

Cocked & Locked
January 10, 2011, 12:04 PM
I'd rather have a .25 in my pocket than having to bend over and look for a rock to throw. I carry mine some but usually along with something more potent.

http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2169/3082611/6259764/317273115.jpg

Onward Allusion
January 10, 2011, 01:28 PM
Don't kid yourself that the .25 acp is a toy or a BB gun. These pistols have killed a lot of people who thought along those lines until they found out different, the hard and fatal way.

I always have to chuckle to myself when these debates take place about the .22LR or .25ACP or even the .32ACP. To this day, I have never heard of anyone volunteer to be shot with ONE round in the chest or head, much less than 5 or 7 shots. I think we can all agree that the .25ACP cartridge is a nominal defensive round, when I hear things like I rather... "carry a rock", "have bare hands", or "have a stick" I just gotta laugh.

KBintheSLC
January 10, 2011, 01:45 PM
This thing'll kill an intruder.

The .25 acp is better than nothing, but still a far cry from what I would consider adequate. I do, however carry a .32 acp sometimes, and I don't consider that adequate either. But lugging a 30 oz block of gun in my trousers is not always feasible. So, we compromise... and the .25 is definitely that.

Skinsanity
January 10, 2011, 01:58 PM
I'm with you Onward, where the afforementioned .22, .25, or .32 are definately not optimal by defense standards, I hope that if I ever had to use one, that the other guy refused one and brought a stick instead.

We, as rationale and arguable sane, people think that someone who has been shot should break off the engagement and retreat at the first oppurtunity, this is often not the case. And not something I would bet my welfare on.

I think just as some people confuse the thought of "its not optimal" with "its completely useless", I think others confuse "It's better than nothing" with "you can bet on it".

Like so many things in the topic of firearms, its more of personal preference and comfort than fact, and thus, will always be debated.

macadore
January 10, 2011, 02:10 PM
With a sufficient amount of luck and skill a 25 ACP can save your life. With a more substantial caliber, you need substantially less luck and skill. Skill you can work on. There is nothing you can do about luck.

No, I wouldn't want to be shot by one. I wouldn't want to be slapped in the face of kicked in the shins either. That's not the question. The question is would prefer to bet your life on a 25 ACP or something more substantial?

GLOOB
January 10, 2011, 02:23 PM
Sure! If a .25 ACP was the only caliber I had, I'd love it, too. But I have no firearms chambered for it, and I don't plan for that to change, ever. I don't think a .25 can do anything that a .22 can't do better and cheaper.

SharpsDressedMan
January 10, 2011, 02:35 PM
I have two .25 handguns, and mostly they are for fun and conversation. One is a Colt 1908 that I lucked into at a gunshow for less than a "plain" one goes for. I added the bark ivory grips, and the result are pretty good, and it is worn enough that if I choose to go light, pocket carry is the ticket. The other is a Beretta 418, or what many consider to be the original "Bond" gun, as referred to by Ian Fleming in the books. Both are more accurate than they should be, with dinky sights and short barrels, but there are soft spots on bad guys that WILL NOT STOP a .25 bullet before it reaches its target, so the .25 can be very deadly if you know what you are doing. http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m247/matquig/DSC05655.jpg

CZguy
January 10, 2011, 05:21 PM
With a sufficient amount of luck and skill a 25 ACP can save your life. With a more substantial caliber, you need substantially less luck and skill. Skill you can work on. There is nothing you can do about luck.


Great.........there goes thirty years of carrying a four leaf clover down the drain. :D

cfullgraf
January 10, 2011, 05:33 PM
If memory serves me correctly, James Bond was forced to turn in his 25 ACP because it almost got him killed. That's good enough for me to use something larger.

Still, someday I'll add a 25 ACP, including reloading gear, to my collection.

Want to talk anemic pocket gun/cartridge combinations, how about a Beretta Minx in 22 Short!

FIVETWOSEVEN
January 10, 2011, 05:56 PM
If memory serves me correctly, James Bond was forced to turn in his 25 ACP because it almost got him killed. That's good enough for me to use something larger.



Thats because his Beretta jammed on him.

M: "Yes, I thought so. This damn Beretta again. I've told you about this before." (to the armorer) "You tell him, for the last time."
Maj. Boothroyd: "It's nice and light... in a lady's handbag. No stopping power."
M: "Any comments, 007?"
James Bond: "I disagree, sir. I've used the Beretta for ten years. And I've never missed with it yet."
M: "Maybe not, but it jammed on your last job and you spent six months in the hospital in consequence. If you carry a double-O number, it means you're licensed to kill, not get killed... From now on you'll carry a different gun. Show him, armorer."
Maj. Boothroyd: "Walther PPK. 7.65 mil with a delivery like a brick through a plate glass window. Takes a Brausch silencer with very little reduction in muzzle velocity. The American CIA swear by them."

JTH
January 10, 2011, 06:09 PM
I'd like to check out a Phoenix .22LR, that comes w/two barrels, if I can ever find one to check out and examine and hold. I won't buy unless I can check one out physically and hold it. I've heard some pretty good thing about the Phoenix for a cheap pistol. I'd like a good cheap plinker. I had a Bryco .32 that had never been fired that was passed down to me when my Dad passed. One day I finally took it out, put the mag in, pulled back the slide it came off and little parts went flying into the grass. End of story:cuss: That's why I have a Tok and soon probably a Glock19 or a Stoeger Cougar 9mm or 45, I like them both but about +$150 extra for the Glock.
JT

SharpsDressedMan
January 10, 2011, 07:12 PM
FWIW, In the beginning of "Dr. No", "M" went after Bond's .25 because the gun's silencer snagged in his waistband (latter part of "From Russia, With Love"), not because the gun failed........

FIVETWOSEVEN
January 10, 2011, 08:44 PM
I haven't actually seen the movie, just remember reading that off of IMFDB's page on this movie.

CZguy
January 10, 2011, 09:06 PM
FIVETWOSEVEN, and SharpsDressedMan,

You guys sure have good memories.

I've always meant to get a PPK, but never find a good price at the right time.

JR47
January 10, 2011, 09:09 PM
While we listen to all the war-stories, keep one thing in mind. The people shot with them "fell down", were "semi-conscious", or "took themselves to the hospital". It's lacking the part where they continued the assault. Hmmm?

The idea of the 250 pound, drug-crazed, martial arts expert is a figment of someone's imagination.

While I don't recommend a .22 or .25 as a primary gun, or even a back-up, they will bring an assault to an end. The vast majority of people don't want to be shot, period. The presentation of a gun is one of the leading causes of robbers and criminals breaking off an attack. Has anyone ever heard of a criminal debating ballistics with his intended victim when they produce a gun?

In just the past several months, the "Armed Citizen" has had incidents where the citizen killed an armed attacker with a .25 ACP.

Personally, I've seen too many people not stopped by the 9mm +P+ round to ever trust it for anything but target practice. How about 8 shots, in the COM, and we had to restrain the man in order to treat him. PG CO. Police Dept., 1998, in Laurel, Md.

At least, with a .25, I'd feel like there was a reason for the failure to stop.

Contee Road and RT. 197, 1999, PG co., Md. 3 shots with 124 gr. +P 9x19 COM. He ran over 200 yards, and was hiding in his apartment, calling 911. Not only did he survive, but he's currently serving two life sentences in Hagerstown.

These were both hits obtained with Beretta Model 92 pistols.

NO hand-gun cartridge is 100% effective. Thanks, but I carry what starts with a .4

Airburst
January 10, 2011, 09:10 PM
elcaminoariba
Attackers tend to run the second they discover their victim is armed, even without a shot fired. They really run with a bullet in them (if they can). They usually don't take the time to discuss ballistics when they're bleeding and in a hurry to exit. If they are able to run with a bullet in them, they'll get arrested at the ER if they live long enough. I wouldn't recommend the .25 for bear protection tho
If you managed, while in the death grip of a bear hug, trying to see through the blood streaming down your face and ignoring your own screaming and pain and unload the entire magazine into the bears' right eyeball, you might bring it down...on top of you. Then you will be dead. But by all means, keep the .25 for sd. Notice I didn't capitalize the SD.;)

MaterDei
January 10, 2011, 09:33 PM
Perhaps I am just lucky but so far I have never fired a .22 that was a dud.
Really? The 22LR is my favorite caliber so I'm not bashing it but, really? You've never had a dud?

withdrawn34
January 10, 2011, 09:46 PM
If it "stops" someone, it'll be because they run away after getting fire returned at them. A cap gun could probably produce the same effect. I wouldn't always plan to get a perp who will just run away like that.

TexasPatriot.308
January 10, 2011, 09:46 PM
I was given a Raven arms .25acp, fun to shoot, cant hit nothng with it. my prefferred carry is one of several .45acps I got. I guess the .25 can get you into trouble, dont know if it can get you out of trouble, but like someone said, it is better than a rock.

Lvl21nerd
January 10, 2011, 09:53 PM
dunno...depends on how heavy the rock is and how well u can throw it :cool:

SharpsDressedMan
January 10, 2011, 09:59 PM
Drug crazed martial artist? One thing I've noticed, IN GENERAL, is that people who seriously pursue a discipline like a martial art, and stick with it long enough to learn something, ususally have a lot of self control, and little use for drugs. Just as the MAJORITY of gun owners carry the conscious weight of responsibility and self control with firearms, the people who develope themselves physically in a martial arts doctrine also exercise significant self control. It is part OF the martial arts discipline. This is not to say that a .25 is all you need to stop a big, angry drugged up attacker, but let's not asign the belief, or assume, that there are too many of them with black belts.

SharpsDressedMan
January 10, 2011, 10:02 PM
PS: Regarding 007's .25, I quote books. Now THERE is the REAL Bond! (Well, as real as a fictional character is, right?) I invite everyone to read the 13 original Fleming novels. You won't regret it.

CornCod
January 10, 2011, 10:04 PM
The .25acp is not an optimum defense cartridge. However, if owning a .25 prevents you from walking out the door of your dwelling with no handgun at all, then I would suggest you carry the .25 in good health. A lot of guys claim to tote a lot of heavy artillery, but those are often the same guys who get frustrated with the weight of big-bore handguns and wind up not carrying at all.

Those who carry .25acp handguns may wish to consider the Kel-Tec P-32, a .32acp handgun which is the size of a traditional .25. I tote my P-32 when clothing and climate choices force me to carry a wee pistol.

artee
January 11, 2011, 03:15 PM
Have fired the Colt 1908's and Baby Brownings "on the range". Have also shot and chronoed the Walther TPH .22 LR --Just like USP9's TPH in 25ACP, only in 22 LR. Far more common, not that any TPH is abundant. All lot's of grin and giggles. The TPH's are darn accurate. I took lots of quarters from fellow pilots on bets on hitting match heads at about 7 yards.

Now my .25 ACP tale of Woe:D Favorite cousin (about 4 yrs older) was a deputy sheriff. Carried a Colt .25 as a backup. I had gotten a "Chorny" brand chronograph within a year of it's intorduction, and this is several years later (so say 1992 or so). He wondered what that little 25 could do, so conned me into loaning him the Chrony. Yep. He Shot the Chorny:what: Hit it just left of center on the "back plate" of the front half. [The "Chorny" folds in half for storage, so there is a divider "plate" half way between the screens due to this] It completely chipped off the paint of a 3/4 in high by 2 in wide area. Buckled the sheet metal about 1/2 inch. Didn't penetrate or break through the sheet metal. Was able to use some "duck bill" pliers to pretty much squeeze the metal back out flat. Just now have re measured the metal with a 1 inch mic. It's .041 in thick, including the enamal paint.

Walther TPH 22 LR chorno results: Tests at 12 feet from muzzle between 60 and 80 deg F, 750 Ft MSL. Test Ammos: Fed "550 rd Bulk Pack" 36 gn plated HP; Rem "Golden Bullet" 36gn HP; CCI Minimag 40gn RN; Win SuperX 40 gn RN; Win Dynapoint HP; Rem Thunderbolt 40gn; Federal American Eagle 36gn HP All "High Speed" Ammo types.

Vel 860 to 880 fps It all falls in that band.

CCI Stinger 960 fps

tests repeated multiple times over several years.

Moral: 22 LR out of a .25 ACP length barrel is faster than most cowboy loads and at the high end for 45 ACP Ball. Don't bet prison that it can't hurt someone. It and .25 ACP might not be a great choice though. And, if you do stupidly loan your chorongraph to someone, hope he's using 25 ACP:neener:

bikridr
January 11, 2011, 08:48 PM
I have a Beretta .25 Jetfire that is extremely accurate to 7 yards and has had no failures of any kind.I prefer to carry something larger however my wife carries this because of the low recoil and nerve problems in her hands.I also have a Phoenix HP22 that is reliable with CCI MiniMag and fun to shoot for only $150 new.I carry a larger caliber because it is more effective , but I don't know anyone who would look down the barrel of my Jetfire while I fire 9 rounds as fast as I could pull the trigger

Robert Wilson
January 11, 2011, 09:21 PM
To this day, I have never heard of anyone volunteer to be shot with ONE round in the chest or head, much less than 5 or 7 shots. I think we can all agree that the .25ACP cartridge is a nominal defensive round, when I hear things like I rather... "carry a rock", "have bare hands", or "have a stick" I just gotta laugh.

I can't recall ever hearing anyone volunteer to be beaten with a stick, or hit with a rock, or choked with bare hands, either. That doesn't make any of them especially good self-defense methods.

It seems to me that the whole thread could be distilled with "The .25 ACP is better than nothing, but almost any other caliber is better than the .25 ACP". But that wouldn't be any fun at all!

Ben86
January 11, 2011, 09:28 PM
.25 isn't my cup of tea, but it can get the job done. I'm just glad you found a gun that works for you. Your skill can trump deficiencies in hardware. I'd also stay away from .25 jhps, stick with fmj in order to get enough penetration and better reliability.

Weevil
January 11, 2011, 10:13 PM
Here's an interesting read on a study done back in the '90s on homicides and suicides in Milwaukee.

http://jama.ama-assn.org/content/275/1/42.abstract


Results. —Handguns accounted for 468(89%) of 524 firearm homicides and 124 (71%) of 175 firearm suicides. Handguns of.25 caliber accounted for 14% (n=63) of 438 firearm homicides and 12% (n=15) of all firearm suicides in which caliber was known. The Raven MP-25 was the single most commonly identified firearm and accounted for 10% (n=15) of 153 handgun homicide cases and 7% (n=7) of the 76 suicide cases in which the manufacturer of the firearm was identified. From all data sources combined, information on firearm type was available in 681 (97%) of 699 cases, caliber/gauge in 636 cases (91%), manufacturer/model in 309 cases (44%), and serial number in 276 cases (40%).


Not my caliber of choice and I won't be trading in my 10mm on a .25acp any time soon, but a .25 can kill you just as dead as any other caliber.

No gun not even a measly little .25 should be scoffed at, they can all kill and maim.

easyg
January 11, 2011, 10:32 PM
Not my caliber of choice and I won't be trading in my 10mm on a .25acp any time soon, but a .25 can kill you just as dead as any other caliber.

No gun not even a measly little .25 should be scoffed at, they can all kill and maim.
No one is denying that the .25 is capable of killing a human.

The problem with the .25 is that it will not reliably QUICKLY STOP an attacker.

It does me no good whatsoever if the bad guy dies hours later AFTER he has bashed my head in with a baseball bat.

Should I ever need to shoot someone, I will want them to stop whatever they are doing immediately!


Friends don't let friends carry a .25.

Tomcat47
January 11, 2011, 10:36 PM
I love .25 also.. but for its purpose! I carry mine usually when traveling and say entering a rest area bathroom.

If a problem occurs in this setting it is usually going to be Close Quarters!
I.E. bathroom stall! I enter the rest area with this in mind due to a friend of mine was attacked in this manner. If need to use it arises...they will know they are shot! Close Quarters is up close and Personal, ie point blank and will usually happen fast....be prepared!

The best .25 load is the Hornady 35-gr. XTP-HP round. If it jams, use any Federal, Remington, or Winchester 50 grain ball round. Winchester has an odd 45 gr. "Expanding Point" round that should be OK if it is reliable in your gun (it seems to work fine in Beretta 950 pistols, for example), but don't expect any improvement in performance over the 50 grain ball rounds. The excellent Walther TPH .25 should be loaded with ball.

The Hornady 35 grain JHP should be considered only if it is 100% reliable in your pistol - fire 200 rounds through your gun to see. Ed Sanow recommends the MagSafe 22 grain "Defender" and Glaser 40 grain Safety Slug.

An exerpt from a writing from
Massad Ayoob, Evan Marshall and Ed Sanow
You will find the whole thing at this link which has a lot of info for other calibers as well: http://www.chuckhawks.com/ammo_by_anonymous.htm

Ben86
January 11, 2011, 11:33 PM
The problem with the .25 is that it will not reliably QUICKLY STOP an attacker.

If it's a close range shot to the heart or brain cavity I'm thinking it will. Again, it's on the lower end of the power scale (and thus requires even better shot placement) but it's not a caliber that can be considered useless for self defense and absolutely incapable of quickly stopping an attacker.

Weevil
January 12, 2011, 12:19 AM
No one is denying that the .25 is capable of killing a human.

The problem with the .25 is that it will not reliably QUICKLY STOP an attacker.


No handgun caliber can quarantee a quick stop on a truly determined attacker.


True you are more likely to get their attention with a larger caliber, but pumping 7 or 8 rounds of .25 into somebody should still give you at least a slight advantage if it does become a hand-to-hand fight.



It does me no good whatsoever if the bad guy dies hours later AFTER he has bashed my head in with a baseball bat.

Well perhaps you should have thought twice about engaging in combat with that fellow and his bat if all you have to defend yourself is a .25.

It doesn't do you much good if he dies 10 minutes after bashing your head in with a bat after you emptied your .45 into him either.

No handgun regardless of caliber can guarantee an instant stop or even that you'll win the fight.



Should I ever need to shoot someone, I will want them to stop whatever they are doing immediately!

Well yeah don't we all?

Unfortunately handguns aren't especially powerful and humans are actually rather tough and resillient.

Increasing caliber size and power does improve your odds no doubt about that but it doesn't mean that it becomes a magic death-ray. You still have to keep your cool and properly place your shots.

A good well placed shot with a .25 will always be better than a miss with .50 AE.



Friends don't let friends carry a .25.


So don't carry one, but don't kid yourself that someone with a .25 is defenseless.

Perhaps you may indeed win the fight but what good does it do if you die an hour later???

:D

mljdeckard
January 12, 2011, 12:40 AM
No, there are no guarantees. But there are degrees of likelihood. In a scale where nothing is perfect, I won't use the option that is DEAD LAST.

Weevil
January 12, 2011, 12:59 AM
No, there are no guarantees. But there are degrees of likelihood. In a scale where nothing is perfect, I won't use the option that is DEAD LAST.



Well neither do I but be that as it may the .25 is an option that is capable of stopping and/or killing an attacker.

Are there better options?

Of course there are but the .25 is a gun and as such is capable maiming, killing, and hopefully stopping an attacker.


No I'm not gonna use it for my EDC but I would think twice about attacking someone who had one.

makarovnik
January 12, 2011, 01:07 AM
I empty the mag and then a well placed kick in the walnuts will stop 'em.

easyg
January 12, 2011, 10:28 AM
No, there are no guarantees. But there are degrees of likelihood. In a scale where nothing is perfect, I won't use the option that is DEAD LAST.
Exactly!

Sure, there are no guarantees of a quick stop.
But there are many calibers that offer MUCH MUCH MUCH greater odds of a quick stop than the weak .25.

Considering that fact alone, I can't see any good reason to choose the .25.

FIVETWOSEVEN
January 12, 2011, 11:23 AM
It doesn't do you much good if he dies 10 minutes after bashing your head in with a bat after you emptied your .45 into him either.

I don't know many people that would be able to fight with 9 rounds of .45 shot into their upper chest, high as a kite or sober as a priest on sunday.

mljdeckard
January 12, 2011, 02:21 PM
You say "capable of", I think the truth is something more like; "might possibly".

SharpsDressedMan
January 12, 2011, 03:03 PM
Anyone here on the THR ever been shot with a .25, and want to tell us how wimpy it is?

seantyler09
January 12, 2011, 03:05 PM
Personally I would go for the 22 magnum round, I have used this round hunting for years and it has done me very well. I find that the size of the round isn't what really deals the damage it's the expansion. A good hollow point of any caliber will deal the damage needed to drop an assailant.

mljdeckard
January 12, 2011, 07:16 PM
Sharps-

I already posted my acquaintance who was hit in the upper arm with one, and when he checked to see what it was, it came out in his hand. I also already asked the reverse question, suppose you had to CHOOSE which bullet to get shot with, a .25 or a 9mm. Now which one sounds worse?

1911Tuner
January 12, 2011, 07:30 PM
For the next chapter in the .25 Chronicles based on my personal but limited knowledge and/or experience...

A guy who I worked and had a passing aquaintance with, and who was fond of partaking of John Barleycorn and whacking his girlfriend of the month around whilst under its influence...whacked on the wrong one in the merry month of May, 1986.

This, despite her informing him that if he laid another hand on her, she'd kill him in his sleep.

The lady took great umbrage at this, and...making good on her threat...after he passed out, she got his .25 pistol from the nightstand drawer and shot him twice amidships while he slept...and went home.

Waking to an intense bellyache several hours later, and being sober enough to deduce what had happend because of the spent cases on the bed and the pistol on the nightstand...he drove himself 15 miles to Forsyth Memorial Hospital in Winston-Salem...and died in the triage area about 15 minutes after his arrival.

Lethal? Sure. Effective? Notsummuch...

kmbrman
January 12, 2011, 07:45 PM
Here in town, a Mexican Chip business owner was robbed and shot multiple times with a .25. He was talking to people at the scene of the crime. Unfortunately he died a month later of blood poisoning from all of those .25 cal. bullets that had to be removed through several surgeries. The moral is, the person could die from being shot with a .25 ,but as far as stopping a drugged- up felon, you need more power than any .25 , especially if you need an instant stop !

dashootist
January 12, 2011, 07:51 PM
Some people don't have the strength and skill to shoot accurately a big caliber rounds in a small pistol. In that case, a hit with a 25acp is better than a miss with a 9x19, anyday.

JW2
January 12, 2011, 09:31 PM
I know someone who shot a dangerous dog in the head at nearly point blank range with a .25APC and the dog immediately took off. We both spotted it several days later running around seemingly unfazed.

mljdeckard
January 12, 2011, 09:47 PM
Dashootist-

Perhaps they should stay away from small pistols.

SharpsDressedMan
January 12, 2011, 10:46 PM
There was a pawn shop owner who freqented the rec.guns site many years ago. He was attacked by a crazed customer who wanted to buy a gun, was refused, and cam in swinging a samurai sword. The shop owner scrambled for several loaded guns placed around the store, but was cut and stabbed several times while retreating when he realized he had a Beretta .25 in his pocket (the stress of the attack made him focus on the defensive guns he had in the store and forget the light little backup gun in pocket). He drew the .25, and ended the attack, and the guys life, with several (if not all) rounds to the face and head. In another criminal case in the town where I worked, a single round of .25 (to the head) of a drunk and belligerent 300 pound fellow by another smaller, drunk fellow ended the big guy's life, on the spot. Maybe freak luck in both cases, maybe not.

Bulldawg55
January 12, 2011, 10:51 PM
I had a nice 25cal. Beretta 950 when I first got my CCW.:scrutiny:
I now have a P32 which is my always gun, but mostly as a BUG to a 9mm, 357mag, 357sig, or a 45.:D
I do wish I still had that 950 though!:(

Ben86
January 13, 2011, 12:41 AM
Waking to an intense bellyache several hours later, and being sober enough to deduce what had happend because of the spent cases on the bed and the pistol on the nightstand...he drove himself 15 miles to Forsyth Memorial Hospital in Winston-Salem...and died in the triage area about 15 minutes after his arrival.

He didn't even wake up while he was being shot!?? :D Wow.

vidi0t
January 13, 2011, 07:25 AM
I just acquired this little jem. I haven't had a chance to shoot it yet. I doubt I'll carry it but then again she would make a nice little BUG to my LCP. :D

http://i622.photobucket.com/albums/tt301/vidi0t/Beretta%20950BS%20Jetfire/IMG_1797.jpg

http://i622.photobucket.com/albums/tt301/vidi0t/Beretta%20950BS%20Jetfire/IMG_1794.jpg

pockets
January 13, 2011, 09:29 AM
I love 'em too! I have a couple dozen of .25acp pistols. Fun to shoot.
I even carry one now and then just for the heck of it.

dogngun
January 13, 2011, 09:36 AM
and in over 45 years of shooting them, I found exactly 1 .22 pistol reliable enough to carry-a S&W 2213, no longer made. I have a 90 year old Spanish
.25 pistol that goes with me much of the time, and I have NEVER had a feed or exrtaction problem with it.
A small pistol that works is much better than one that does not.

mark

Onmilo
January 13, 2011, 10:23 AM
Or; six hits with a .25 count more than one miss with a .44!:neener:

DM~
January 13, 2011, 10:40 AM
Back when i had my gunshop, i had two cop friends who loved the 25 auto too! Why? Because both of them had been shop by 25auto's, and neither had been hurt! Didn't even draw blood, and this was before all the cops wore "vest"

One was on a foot chase with a bad guy and caught up to him, tackleing the punk! When he got up, his partner said, "man you been shot!" My friend looked down and saw a hole in his jacket, so he opened it and found a bullet in his notebook!

He didn't even see a gun or hear it go off!

Second friend was shot in the chest and something stopped that bullet too, but i forget what it was?? I THINK it bounced off his badge???

Personally, i'd step up a knotch or two...

DM

Ronsch
January 13, 2011, 01:16 PM
Not to get too far off topic...

If you are going to continue to use the .25 ACP round, then you may want to upgrade to a firearm by one of the more reliable companies.

Just saying, the Jimenez firearms are not known for being the best quality, and the last thing you need is for the firearm to jam due to low quality.

huduguru
January 13, 2011, 08:56 PM
Empty the mag, break the knee then slice 'em up....;)

Weevil
January 13, 2011, 09:59 PM
Not to get too far off topic...

If you are going to continue to use the .25 ACP round, then you may want to upgrade to a firearm by one of the more reliable companies.

Just saying, the Jimenez firearms are not known for being the best quality, and the last thing you need is for the firearm to jam due to low quality.




Well yeah but that goes for any caliber not just .25acp.

bikridr
January 13, 2011, 11:32 PM
The show Handguns on the sportsman's channel did a piece about the tiny .25 auto and questioned if it was effective.They placed a leather wallet stuffed with credit cards into the inside pocket of a coat and fired into it.Result was the tiny ineffective .25 went through the coat,the wallet,and out the back of the coat.I wouldn't continue an attack if you were firing one at me and I don't care what anyone's friend,cousin, or friend of a friend says.

makarovnik
January 14, 2011, 05:29 AM
Empty the mag, break the knee then slice 'em up....

Ha! Sounds like something I would say.

The .25acp has pretty darn good penetration. My brother shot my Raven at a 2"+ thick wet phone book and the bullet went clean through.

oldfool
January 14, 2011, 08:30 AM
well I hate knocking small calibers
but even I have my limits
25 acp is just not in the game, never was

and I actually own one, a Beretta 25acp
own a 22LR Hi-std DA derringer too
I shoot 'em both maybe once a year, but don't carry 'em, no

Onmilo
January 14, 2011, 09:34 AM
I used to own A Beretta Minx in .22 Short and a Beretta 950 in .25 acp.
I don't own a .25 acp now but I do own a Kel-Tec P32 belly gun and casrry it on my property quite frequently.
Except for the occasional meth heads we don't get a lot of criminal activity out here but we do get a lot of Raccoons, Skunks, Snakes, barn pigeons, coyote, fox, feral dogs, feral cats and all seem intent on eating the chickens or their eggs, well except the pigeons which just get up in the rafters and crap all over everything.

.22 Short, .25 acp, .32 acp do admirable work in dealing with these forms of hostiles.

I really miss my Beretta Minx and wish I had it back,,,,

pockets
January 14, 2011, 09:45 AM
So if we "move up a notch" from .25acp, we go to .32acp...right?
Now we can talk about the girl in Dayton Ohio last year, negligently shot by her boyfriend with a .32acp, her Blackberry stopped the bullet.
As Gilda Radner said, "It's Always Something". ;)

vidi0t
January 14, 2011, 09:54 AM
Ya know I feel the need to point out a belief I have. We've all heard stories of someone being killed by a 22lr and then you hear stories like the Blackberry stopping a .32 ACP. I think God's will always factors into these equations. So sometimes a .22lr will protect someone while other times someone might take multiple rounds of .40S&W and survive. Some things just can't always be quantified. And ya know, I'm okay with this. :D

SharpsDressedMan
January 14, 2011, 01:00 PM
Knock at the door, man goes to open door. "Bang!" A .45 round cuts through his shoulder, below the clavical, no bones struck. "Damn, why'd you shoot me, Joe?!!" No further shots. Police called, EMS takes injured to the hospital, Joe goes to jail. Drunkeness blamed for the shooting. The man shot never fell down, never lost consciousness, and didn't really feel too much in the way of pain (until later at the hospital). Bullet placement IS a big factor, I guess. Even a .45 doesn't always do what we expect it to do.

Onmilo
January 14, 2011, 04:22 PM
Man, we could also start talking about ALL the .38 Special failures that prompted the shift away from revolvers and towards semi auto pistols, specifically .40 caliber semi auto pistols which then led to a further awakening of the .45 acp market especially when high capacity magazines were banned from civilian ownership but then reinstated causing an upsurge in high capacity .45 pistols on the market which then caused an uproar with the general population that common folks were carrying bigger guns with lots of bullets so then the trend was towards REALLY BIG revolvers like the .500 and .460 S&Ws and now it has all come down to this,,,,,
http://fototime.com/8F3FF3C249F99EC/standard.jpg
The most influential, politically correct, awe inspiring handgun marketed by any manufacturer yet to date.

The head shrinks may be on to something about the size of ones penis and the deep human fear of the things that go bump in the night,,,

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