Saiga/AK bullpup chassis design what do you think?


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mark87
January 8, 2011, 11:11 AM
THIS IS ONLY A WHAT IF DREAM I can't produce this in any way I just want to see what you experts out there think and I don't want criticism. I by no means know how any of this would work but I'd like to develop it for myself one day. It's obviously photoshopped and its pretty much and fn fs2000 of course without the markings so I don't get in trouble. The gas tube is exposed because I want to get the ratchet charging system from www.dublinaksystems.com weld a rail onto that and add tri rail to the front. I also want to do a galil safety mod and weld the original safety selector in place and remove any protruding pieces from it because I would like the chassis to fit right on top. The connection points would be the rear tang and it would come with a lower hand guard retainer that would replace the ak variant retainer or give the saiga owner one. The top cover will remain un covered so you can still field strip it without taking it apart. I would like to make it easier for magazine changes so I would rig a different mag release and move it up like the trigger system would work and figure out an easier way to insert the mag. Similar to the Center Balance Rifle Platform Systems ak chassis that claims to be easier that way I don't know for sure.

One reason why I would develop this is because it would be another way to convert a saiga rifle and of course add something to your standard ak variant

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aka108
January 8, 2011, 11:13 AM
You will never know until you do it.

sv51macross
January 8, 2011, 11:35 AM
There'a already a similar bullpup chassis for AKs. www.cbrps.com

mark87
January 8, 2011, 11:45 AM
There'a already a similar bullpup chassis for AKs. www.cbrps.com
Yes I noted that that's why this is my own design there's things about that one I don't like. It doesn't work for saiga and it doesn't allow for the ratchet charging system and It may be more difficult to field strip I'm not sure

Girodin
January 8, 2011, 03:00 PM
Saiga/AK bullpup chassis design what do you think?

I don't want criticism


Well those two things are in a lot of tensions.

mark87
January 8, 2011, 04:28 PM
Pretty much if you don't like bull pup design don't be mean If you do then let me know what you think about this particular design and features

Girodin
January 8, 2011, 05:53 PM
Well that is a different set of limitation entirely. I've owned a number of bull pups and over all am pretty found of the concept. That said I have never found a weapon not originally designed to be a bullpup that I thought turned out very well.

You need some provision for raised sights. One cannot use the dust cover as cheek rest and have the stock sights be very useable

I also want to do a galil safety mod and weld the original safety selector in place and remove any protruding pieces from it because I would like the chassis to fit right on top.

I see a Galil safety being in the way on a bullpup if you intend to have it in the same location. I'm also not very sure it would work well with your FS2000 chasis. In terms of welding the old safety. if it is up then it blocks the path of the charging handle, but I suppose you will shave that as part of the ratchet charging system.

I would like to make it easier for magazine changes so I would rig a different mag release and move it up like the trigger system would work and figure out an easier way to insert the mag.

Those would both be good issues to address but you need slightly more solid plans to offer any kind of real input. It seems you are only to the point of recognizing the issue but have no real solution to propose.

Getting the trigger linkage right would be a big part of making a half decent AK bullpup kit. You have offered nothing in terms of how you plan to deal with that.

In sum, until you offer significantly more concrete ideas for dealing with the safety, the mag release, and the trigger linkage all you really have is an idea for furniture that would perhaps look better than the current offerings.

Girodin
January 8, 2011, 05:58 PM
Oh a note on that ratchet charging system, it might be less of an issue on a bullpup, but the people pushing seem to have ignored completely at least in their promotional materials what one does when they transition to their support side shoulder and need to work the charging handle from there.

mark87
January 8, 2011, 07:00 PM
I see the point of the safety location so yes that would be an issue but the working parts would be the difficult part that's why I don't have plans on doing it myself at the moment I just wish some company out there would make it. I like the Robinson Arms XCR they're just expensive. The trigger mechanism has been done on the old KVAR bull pup kit that is no longer available so I think I would need to get ahold of one from CIA they're under $600 at some point for reference and I pretty much assumed a similar thing can be done for the mag release.

mark87
January 8, 2011, 07:02 PM
Oh a note on that ratchet charging system, it might be less of an issue on a bullpup, but the people pushing seem to have ignored completely at least in their promotional materials what one does when they transition to their support side shoulder and need to work the charging handle from there.
That is true

pikid89
January 8, 2011, 07:09 PM
the link posted earlier about the existing ak bull pup says they are working with dublinaksystems to develop a ratchet system that works with their bull pup

mark87
January 8, 2011, 07:19 PM
the link posted earlier about the existing ak bull pup says they are working with dublinaksystems to develop a ratchet system that works with their bull pup
I didn't see that that's great if only his system would work with saiga. It's just a personal thing to me I would rather have a everything clean and new than the used stuff from wasr's but I don't see harm in having both I guess

Justin
January 8, 2011, 07:22 PM
Figure out a way to remove the poor trigger pull inherent to bullpup designs, as well as the reciprocating bolt handle that will bash your teeth in if you attempt to fire the gun left-handed, and you might be on to something.

Hammerhead6814
January 8, 2011, 07:22 PM
If you can design something that takes care of the trigger problem every stinking AK bullpup is running into, have at it.

mark87
January 8, 2011, 07:48 PM
the ratchet system should take care of that as for the trigger problem I guess that's why there aren't that many bull pup ak kits. I didn't hear anything bad about the KVAR trigger assembly what is the issue?

Justin
January 8, 2011, 08:36 PM
Bullpup rifles generally have terrible triggers owing to the fact that the linkage has to be so long.

In a regular rifle, the hammer is here:
}
---- connection to the trigger is here.
....( and the trigger here.

In a bullpup the configuration looks more like this:

}
------------------------------------
........................................... (

All of that extra material means extra weight as well as surfaces sliding against each other = bad trigger.

The only bullpup rifle that I've heard has a decent trigger is the one made by Kel-Tec, but I've yet to actually handle one.

mark87
January 9, 2011, 01:28 AM
The CBRPS trigger system seems to work and they were able to make it better, but a question since I don't know much about these things would changing the fcg to a tapco g2 work better?

Girodin
January 9, 2011, 06:16 AM
The trigger mechanism has been done on the old KVAR bull pup kit that is no longer available so I think I would need to get ahold of one from CIA they're under $600 at some point for reference and I pretty much assumed a similar thing can be done for the mag release.

The trigger pull on those, well in a word, sucks. It could be copied and people have found ways to improve them but none are that great. It would take a serious redesign to get it significantly improved.

The only bullpup rifle that I've heard has a decent trigger is the one made by Kel-Tec, but I've yet to actually handle one.

I too have really wanted to get trigger time on the RFB to see if the trigger lives up to the hype. If so I hope we will see improved triggers bleed into other bullpup designs. If you are putting bullpup trigger linkage on top of the already messy wishbone trigger linkage in a stock saiga I doubt you'll ever get a very good trigger.

I didn't see that that's great if only his system would work with saiga.

I'm skeptical of any bullpup kit that would work with the stock saiga wishbone trigger. An AK bullpup kit can be made to work with a saiga but may require you to move the trigger first.

The center balance system is not something that appeal much to me for a number of reasons. The design on that site for the k31 made me want to cry.

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