A few questions on .223/5.56x45mm uppers


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P.B.Walsh
January 9, 2011, 06:38 PM
Hey ya'll, I have another question to ask.

Question #1:
I am thinking about selling my DPMS 20" upper in order to fund a 16" mid-length upper. I have noticed that new 20" uppers go for $450-$500 in the basic A3 configuration, which mine is in. My question is what would you sell it for if you were me, I was thinking around $350.

Question #2:
Now, as you can tell, I will be buying a mid-length. For me, and my uses, which is plinking, little hunting, and possible an HD weapon. The uppers that I am thinking of is Del-Ton (decent quality at a lower price), RRA, or just bite the bullet and go with a BCM upper with the GUNFIGHTER charging handle (but this is very expensive for an upper alone). Or my other option would be to buy the BCM upper, and add a lower cost BCG and charging handle such as DPMS, Del-Ton, or RRA.

I have a decent idea of question #1, but #2 is my main concern.

Thanks in advance,
P.B.Walsh

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mbogo
January 9, 2011, 06:50 PM
$350 without the bolt, carrier group, and charging handle is a typical price, but why do you feel your current upper is not capable of handling what you want to do?

mbogo

P.B.Walsh
January 9, 2011, 08:23 PM
Because a 16" is more handy for inside the house when compared to a 20".

Tidewater Tarheel
January 9, 2011, 08:26 PM
I rely on a 12 bore shotgun with 8 shots and an 18 inch barrel !

RhinoDefense
January 9, 2011, 08:39 PM
DelTon, DPMS, RRA are not very good quality compared to BCM. I would get a BCM upper. Quality costs money. BCM spends money on testing where the others don't even bother. Standard CH works fine. Get a good upper group now and replace the CH later. I would definitely recommend the BCM BCG as well.

P.B.Walsh
January 9, 2011, 08:46 PM
Tidewater, I might purchase a shotgun for main HD duty, this (AR) is a backup to that (590A1).

Z-Michigan
January 9, 2011, 08:54 PM
BCM is far past the others you list in quality.

It would be extremely foolish to get a BCM upper and install a cheaper bolt/carrier/charging handle. Those are critical parts that are often screwed up and often break on cheaper guns. You would be far better off buying a cheaper stripped upper and installing a BCM carrier group and handle. In fact, you might look at DSA's 16" midlength and then add BCM parts to complete it:

http://www.dsarms.com/DSA-ZM4-A3-Upper-Receiver-16-Barrel-Mid-Length-HG---DSZM4CBUMID/productinfo/DSZM4CBUMID/

Another good choice is Spike's Tactical. You can get their complete upper (with carrier group and handle) for $500 or so, and it's very close in quality to BCM.

P.B.Walsh
January 9, 2011, 10:07 PM
That DSA has a 1-9", for a defense rifle I'd at least like a 1-8", but if the price is right, 1-9" aint soooo bad.....

Z-Michigan
January 9, 2011, 11:05 PM
If you want 1:7, Spike's Tactical is your friend, just watch the AIM Surplus website for them to get another batch in.

RhinoDefense
January 10, 2011, 12:03 AM
Spike's is not in the same league as BCM. BCM is higher quality.

lions
January 10, 2011, 12:06 AM
Spike's is not in the same league as BCM. BCM is higher quality.

Why is that, specifically?

RhinoDefense
January 10, 2011, 12:26 AM
Barrel steel, batch testing versus individual testing, low quality receiver parts kit, etc, etc.

W.E.G.
January 10, 2011, 12:40 AM
For the amount of money you are talking about spending, you could keep your current rifle, and buy a nice handgun instead. Inside the house, if you think you "need" a rifle, you have a problem quite unlike any typical home-defense scenario. Please elaborate on what a rifle can do inside an ordinary residential structure that a handgun cannot do at least as well.

Z-Michigan
January 10, 2011, 09:47 AM
Spike's is not in the same league as BCM. BCM is higher quality.

Barrel steel, batch testing versus individual testing, low quality receiver parts kit, etc, etc.

Please review Spike's posted certification documents here:

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=2&f=282&t=194245

And then describe each and every detail that differs between Spike's Tactical and BCM, if any.

There may be some tiny minutiae that differ, but you are wrong on the barrel steel and testing, also wrong on bolt steel and specs (which I imagine you would later come up with), etc. BCM doesn't sell their own lower parts kits to the public so it's a bit of a guess what they are using (certainly high quality) but I have a Spike's LPK and the hammer/trigger/disconnect appear to be the same manufacture as a G&R Tactical LPK (generally considered the highest quality LPK sold as an LPK).

I have compared LPKs from Spike's, G&R, Daniel Defense, and Armalite literally side by side. I would take Spike's over DD, and the only difference I can see between Spike's and G&R is (1) nicer bolt catch on G&R, (2) LMT-marked selector on G&R vs. nice, custom design selector for Spike's, and (3) rounded hammer on Spike's vs. notched hammer on G&R, but both are marked with the "S" in a square that appears to be a manufacturer's mark (same mark found on Colt parts, and on DD hammer but not DD trigger).

I've been skeptical of Spike's, especially after being somewhat burned by CMMG when they were flavor of the month two years ago, but Spike's is the real deal from everything I can tell, including the complete upper and LPK I'm using from them. I also own Daniel Defense, and a whole bunch of parts from BCM (bolts, carriers, handles, etc.) so I'm no stranger to quality.

RhinoDefense
January 10, 2011, 11:15 AM
Nice, they are finally getting their stuff together. When all their barrel types are tested and certified, should make a nice weapon. I'm glad to see more AR "manufacturers" understand the TDP and assemble weapons for the worst case. It seems Spike's has this awakening finally. Wish more manufacturers would see the light.

mbogo
January 10, 2011, 11:18 AM
If handiness is your goal, consider having your current barrel cut back to 16". Judging by the photo on DPMS' web site, you will not need to move the front sight base/gas block. Add a good flash hider/muzzle brake/comp, and you are done.

mbogo

W.E.G.
January 10, 2011, 11:30 AM
If handiness is your goal, consider having your current barrel cut back to 20".

Assume you meant to type 16".

Gotta be careful about just lopping off the end of the barrel without also enlarging the gas port.

P.B.Walsh
January 10, 2011, 12:24 PM
Yea, I've thought about a nice FNH-45 or Glock 17 or the full size .45 ACP Glock one. Definately a concideration, considering I only have an older .38 S&W, not saying that it will not work, its just a heriloom ya know!!

Bartholomew Roberts
January 10, 2011, 01:39 PM
If handiness is your goal, consider having your current barrel cut back to 20". Judging by the photo on DPMS' web site, you will not need to move the front sight base/gas block. Add a good flash hider/muzzle brake/comp, and you are done.

Assuming he could cut it back without problem, he would also need to open up the gas port and play with buffer weight and action springs since the dwell time of a 16" barrel with a rifle-length gas system is short-enough that it has a smaller window where it operates reliably.

For most people, buying a new barrel is going to be cheaper and less frustrating than trying to cut down an existing rifle barrel to 16" length.

For the uses you specified, I think any one of the manufacturers you name will do fine. As others mentioned, I wouldn't bother buying a BCM and then going budget on the critical parts (bolt carrier group). The bolt carrier group is one of the more critical parts. If you are going to spend money for quality, that and the barrel are the two places to start.

P.B.Walsh
January 10, 2011, 09:54 PM
Yea, I definately am not cutting the barrel.

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