9x18 ammo


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jiminhobesound
January 11, 2011, 08:55 PM
I have a CZ in 9x18 and really like the gun. Consequently, I got on the forum to review the discussion about 9x18. Most, if not all. of the discussions were several years old. No one mentioned Bufallo Bore ammo that seems to deliver a high quality bullet at a good speed. I agree with the advocates of sthe CZ as it is a nice shooting gun. Also, I think that Cor Bon is also now avaiable.

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gearhead
January 11, 2011, 09:09 PM
The problem with really hot ammo in the milsurp weapons is that they are generally straight blowback and were designed for certain weights and speeds. The CZ is probably the one that can handle the hot ammo, though.

zxcvbob
January 11, 2011, 09:11 PM
I load my own 9x18's using cut-down 9x19 brass and 93 grain cast bullets. Haven't had a chance to chrony them yet, but they feel about like Silver Bears. I also just bought 2 boxes of Fiocchi ammo and I suspect they will be hotter.

I have Silver Bear JHP's for carry until I find something better. I need to see if they make Golden Saber or Gold Dot bulk bullets this size.

Wishoot
January 11, 2011, 09:13 PM
I agree that the CZ82 is a very good gun. In fact, it's one of my favorites. Ergonomic and accurate.

I haven't tried Buffalo Bore's ammo yet, but it's probably pretty good stuff (just based on how well Buffalo Bore usually makes ammo). I haven't seen any Cor Bon in 9x18 at all however. I'm pretty certain it's out of production.

WardenWolf
January 11, 2011, 10:02 PM
Cor Bon 9x18 is long out of production. I fired my friend's CZ-82 (I was the one who recommended he get it) and I really wouldn't want to try hot ammo, though. Fact is, pretty much all 9x18 ammo you can get is good stuff, regardless of price (Blazer being the one exception). Even the $10 a box Silver Bear is great. Accurate and reliable, and comes in hollowpoint. It's one of the best calibers for being able to find quality ammo at an affordable price. Just don't touch Blazer. I think they use .380 bullets, because it's overpriced and shoots like crap.

M2 Carbine
January 12, 2011, 12:47 AM
I'm a fan of the 9x18.:)

Some of my Makarovs, CZ83, PA63 and P64s chambered in 9x18. There are also a couple in .380 and 22LR.
http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x464/Bell-helicopter-407/9x18pistols.jpg

Probably the best steel case 9x18 ammo is Barnaul, but it hasn't been imported for years.

Olympus
January 12, 2011, 10:00 AM
Probably the best steel case 9x18 ammo is Barnaul, but it hasn't been imported for years.

It's my understanding that the Brown Bear/Silver Bear was Barnaul ammo? At least the boxes of 9x18 Brown Bear that I have are marked Barnaul on the bottom of the box. It's dirty and it's lacquered, so you spend a little more time cleaning after range trips. But other than that, it's excellent cheap range ammo. I buy it by the case.

Fastcast
January 12, 2011, 10:39 AM
The new Silver Bear is made at Barnaul.....It has been accurate, consistent and relatively clean. It's worth the extra $1.00 to me, to not have the lacquer crap on the Brown Bear!

artee
January 12, 2011, 11:26 AM
You might want to rethink that russian JHP and use ball for personal defense.

Did any of you guys ever have the "Tiger" ammo? It was out before the big price increases, so about 2002. Shiney case and JHP. Made by Barnaul

Tested on SQUASH (not sure of variety, Looks like pumpkins, but with a VERY thick skin of about 2+ inches. Makes terrible jack o lanterns--too difficult to carve)
Shot about a box at 5 or 6 big squash--bigger than basketballs, smaller than 1/2 bushel baskets. MANY of the bullets were found, EXPANDED, in the back/2nd walls of the squash. They chornoed at 1005 fps from a PA-63 at 12 feet. It's not ballistic gel and I don't know how it would compare; but not penetrating both sides of a hollowed out vegitable doesn't inspire confidence.

Box Markings:
JSC Barnul Machine-Tool Plant Made in Russia
Blue Box w a Tiger's head. 9mm MAKAROV (9x18) HP
Bullet Weight 6.1g (95gr) Berdan primer Non-Corrosive Zinc plated steel case

Considering how SLOW Barnul and other Russia manufacturers have been to bring out a decent HP or softpoint that relieably expands and doesn't BLOW UP in 7.62x39, I certainly wouldn't use ANY HP round they produced today without some testing. It did make a great rabbit load, though.

JediJJJ
January 12, 2011, 12:27 PM
Hornady makes their XTP in 9x18. That is what I use when I carry. I also have some of the Silver Bear HP but only use that for practice. Check out the options here:

http://gun-deals.com/ammo.php?caliber=9x18+%28Makarov%29

Olympus
January 12, 2011, 02:04 PM
It's worth the extra $1.00 to me, to not have the lacquer crap on the Brown Bear!

I find that 100 rounds at one time is about all I can shoot my P-64 without a sore web of my hand. And at that amount, even with the lacquered cases, the gun isn't nearly as dirty as my 1911s after a trip to the range.

Shadow 7D
January 12, 2011, 02:15 PM
Warden wolf, SORRY, WRONG
the VZ-82 was designed for the vz.82 round, a sintered iron (hence the poly rifling) and it is about 25% hotter than standard mak ammo, I have posted the link a number of time, but don't really feel like digging for it, OH, BTW, vz.82 is the Czech 'SMG' ammo, it used to be sold with PA-63, a gun and 200 rounds 'deal', that helped start the 'smg' ammo rumor. I just hate to think what the bore on those guns looks like.

zxcvbob
January 12, 2011, 03:42 PM
So I don't need to be so timid with my CZ-82 reloads? I've been staying quite a bit under SAAMI specs; still they are as snappy as Silver Bears. (I'm using the perceived recoil of the Silver bear ammo as a gauge.)

I'd much rather shoot such a light bullet at 1150-1200 fps instead of 1000 as long as it's still accurate and doesn't beat up the gun. That's an almost 50% increase in kinetic energy.

Fastcast
January 12, 2011, 03:57 PM
I find that 100 rounds at one time is about all I can shoot my P-64 without a sore web of my hand. And at that amount, even with the lacquered cases, the gun isn't nearly as dirty as my 1911s after a trip to the range.

I haven't shot a P-64 but I've heard they're kind of brutal.....That's not an issue with the CZ. Recoil is pretty mild.....I'm not saying the Brown Bear is bad, just I'm willing to pay a little extra for the SB without the lacquer.

I was considering buying a P-64 but purchased a LCP instead. :o

Shadow 7D
January 12, 2011, 06:14 PM
It's not that bad, a Handal jr. or similar helps, as does the spring mods, and...
if you just shoot it in SA, the trigger is great, no need to mod it, in DA, well, no way you could convince a jury it accidental in DA.

M2 Carbine
January 12, 2011, 10:55 PM
Hornady makes their XTP in 9x18. That is what I use when I carry.
I like the Hornady XTP bullet but (last I chronographed) it was loaded too slow, 921 FPS.
If I carried a Makarov or CZ82/83 I'd carry a 1125 FPS/ Hornady XTP bullet load I worked up a few years ago. I have 21 pound recoil springs in my Makarovs.
I also like the Speer GD bullet.
http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x464/Bell-helicopter-407/Makbullets.jpg


I haven't shot a P-64 but I've heard they're kind of brutal.....No one has ever wanted to shoot one of mine more than 30-40 rounds. The last fellow that shot one was ready to quit at about 40 rounds. I said, Go on and finish the box (Barnaul). His hand was bleeding from a blister when he finished.

This was my hand when I first got the P64 and shot it a good bit.
http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x464/Bell-helicopter-407/Bleedinghand2.jpg

The gun is accurate. I have three. One shoots left, one right and one centered.
This is the right shooting one at 50 yards (standing, two hands).
http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x464/Bell-helicopter-407/P-6450yards.jpg

WardenWolf
January 12, 2011, 11:05 PM
Shadow 7D, I never said it wasn't designed for it or capable fo taking it. But the hotter stuff would be unpleasant, to say the least. My P-64 isn't bad. I installed some Marschal wraparound grips on it and that helped a lot. I've shot around 50 rounds through it at a time. I only shoot S&B and Silver Bear through mine.

CZguy
January 12, 2011, 11:21 PM
I'm pretty happy loading my CZ82 with Seller & Bellot. I don't carry it though, it stays in the truck as a backup.

I carry an LCP daily. They're hard to shoot well (can be overcome by practice) but are so comfortable to carry.

M2 Carbine
January 12, 2011, 11:34 PM
Anyone seen the 120 grain JHP Silver Bear? I think I've still got a case of it.
It didn't last long. The hollow point was so badly formed that the rounds would jam in the Makarov magazines. I cured this by setting the bullets a few thousands deeper in the case.
These rounds all came from the same box.
The round was hot though. Just a little over 1,000 FPS.
http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x464/Bell-helicopter-407/120SBBullets.jpg

SB then went to a 115 grain JHP bullet. Their quality control got a little better.

Olympus
January 13, 2011, 10:27 AM
I think I read somewhere about the JHP Silver Bear ammo not even expanding to it's full potential. I guess it's a little better than FMJ if it would feed correctly. I've never tried any though.

Fastcast
January 13, 2011, 10:37 AM
I have a couple boxes of the Silver Bear HP and it feeds just fine in my CZ82....I usually just carry Silver Bear ball though if I'm carring the 82.

Ball has proven itself in the Makarov platform and I haven't seen any gel test with 9x18 HP that have convinced me to carry it. Especially the cheap stuff like Silver Bear.

Now if Hornady takes that XTP/HP up to 1150 + feet per second, I'd use it in a heartbeat if it proved to be reliable.

M2 Carbine
January 13, 2011, 11:53 AM
Now if Hornady takes that XTP/HP up to 1150 + feet per second, I'd use it in a heartbeat if it proved to be reliable.
IMO that's too hot, even with 21 pound recoil springs in the Makarov.

A few years ago when I was trying to work up a plus 1,000 FPS JHP load for the Makarov I got definate signs of excessive pressure at 1,150+ speeds.
So I settled on 1,125 FPS max, using the Hornady 95 grain XTP bullet.

And I would only use this load in the Makarov or CZ82/83 with the strongest recoil spring available.

r6j6b
January 13, 2011, 12:02 PM
At 1125 fps and 95 gr XTP = 267 ft# +/- in a reliable & accurate package. What real world accuracy(touch em to 25') are you acheiving M2?
The cartridge needs another choice or two. Speer needs to step back in the ring, imo, with a 95-100 gr GoldDot designed for short barrels.

Fastcast
January 13, 2011, 12:14 PM
A few years ago when I was trying to work up a plus 1,000 FPS JHP load for the Makarov I got definate signs of excessive pressure at 1,150+ speeds.
So I settled on 1,125 FPS max, using the Hornady 95 grain XTP bullet.



Thanks for the info M2....I was thinking CZ82 which is reported to been made to handle hotter loads.....I'll take your word on it and would be tickled with the XTP at 1,125fps as compared to 921fps. :)

North Bender
January 13, 2011, 01:00 PM
Just remember to check your penetration if you boost that Hornady bullet to 1125 fps. You may end up with the Corbon PowRBall effect - lots of expansion with minimal penetration. Horndady just may have designed the velocity to maxamize the effect. Steven Camp and Golden Loki showed decent penetration and great expansion with off-the-shelf Hornady ammo, although the original 95-grain CorBon ammo beat everything in Golden Loki's tests. That stuff is out of production.

http://www.goldenloki.com/ammo/gel/9x18/gel9x18.htm

Brassfetcher's results showed the 115-grain Silver Bear is a real winner:

http://www.brassfetcher.com/var9x18mm.html

But I agree with what Steven Camp emailed me once: "I cannot argue with folks who opt to go with FMJ in this caliber." I personally like the new Buffalo Bore (115 grain hard cast flat nose @ 1,000 fps - ME 255 ft. Ibs.), if you can afford it @ $24/box.

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