[dwhite]

Wrote the article posted here:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2011/01/11/our_insane_handgun_policy_108494.html

Which includes the following quote:

"Gun statistics are nothing less than astonishing. According to the Brady Campaign, an advocacy group, "more Americans were killed with guns in the 18-year period between 1979 and 1997 (651,697) than were killed in battle in all wars since 1775 (650,858)." Even assuming that some of those deaths were suicides or accidents, the gun is what did it. Had it not been handy, then a death might have been avoided."

I got the following data from the Department of Justice and e-mailed it to him: (You need to set-up the query. It's real easy.)

http://www.ucrdatatool.gov/Search/Crime/State/RunCrimeTrendsInOneVar.cfm


Estimated murder and nonnegligent manslaughter

Year United States-Total

1979 21,460
1980 23,040
1981 22,520
1982 21,010
1983 19,308
1984 18,692
1985 18,976
1986 20,613
1987 20,096
1988 20,675
1989 21,500
1990 23,438
1991 24,703
1992 23,760
1993 24,526
1994 23,326
1995 21,606
1996 19,645
1997 18,208
Notes: National or state offense totals are based on data from all reporting agencies and estimates for unreported areas.
# United States-Total -

* The 168 murder and nonnegligent homicides that occurred as a result of the bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City in 1995 are included in the national estimate.
* The 2,823 murder and nonnegligent homicides that occurred as a result of the events of September 11, 2001, are not included in the national estimates.

The total on this is a little over 400,000 but it includes ALL murders/non-negligent (stabbings, strangulation, beatings) homicides.

Please feel free to contact Richard at (cohenr@washpost.com) and express your displeasure with his lack of research.


All the Best,
D. White

[hso]

I don't think contacting the reporter is the only path that should be taken since the editor needs to be informed of the basic failure in the reporter fact checking something as easy to check as this. Regurgitating information from an advocacy group without fact checking is more than incompetent journalism.

[gossamer]

The following was my response to a friend when he posted a similar article arguing in favor of tighter gun control. I have to thank many of the folks here, some of whom I directly quoted.

First, this man should not have been able to get this gun and do this horrible act with it. There are laws enacted to insure he wasn't able to get a gun, and those laws were not allowed to serve as a backstop because of our failure as a society. More on that in a minute.

The truth is 40 years ago Americans had fewer restrictions on firearms ownership and FAR lower rate (even reflecting population growth) of this sort of violence over all and gun violence specifically. The culture of fear and hate mongering is what has changed in this regard, not the availability and type of firearms. In fact, prior to 1968 you could buy guns or ammo or both on just about any commercial street, without restriction, and these kinds of spree killings - and the gun homicide rate overall - was far lower in this country.

Now gun control laws are much more restrictive yet we see higher incidents of gun killing and mass shootings. This fact doesn't argue well for tighter restrictions. So maybe the causes lie elsewhere?

Arguing about the right to own a device, whatever it is, really and truly glosses over the issues. And we Americans have an opportunity to talk about what is REALLY at the heart of this tragedy, or we can blow it in an effort to make it about guns.

We cannot create, maintain, or sustain a civil society with respect for the rule of law based on the constant rhetoric of hate and fear.

Many people on all sides of our social debates have been far too willing to perpetuate hyperbolic rhetoric, adding more noise and animosity than reason to debates than any civil society ought to accommodate.

History shows us that the litany of hate, fear, hyperbole and villification among a populace begets violence; full stop.

This tragedy was brought on first and foremost by mental illness. Mental illness that was allowed to progress far too long without serious intervention, treatment, and civic involvement.

Per our existing, litigated, gun laws, this man should have been denied the right to own a gun had he been adjudicated mentally defective. So now that the argument from both sides is that he was in fact mentally defective; the question is WHY was he not denied access to owning a gun given his mental state?

Why did we not, as a civil society, intervene earlier and help him and his family deal with his problems? Might our intervention as a civil society have helped get him adjudicated mentally defective and therfore denied his purchase of this gun? Knowing that this might not have stopped him, it begs a discussion of what we could have done for him and his family to improve his condition and monitor his actions within a law-enforement framework? Finally, why do we as a society allow ourselves to perpetuate the language of fear, hate and hyperbole? For while elimination of that perpetual hate and fear may not have stopped this man's actions, it will allow us to better address how to heal our society and deal with these individuals in the future.

[Alex45ACP]

And governments have killed over 250 million people in the last century. So lets allow the government to disarm us in order to keep us safe. It's like letting the fox guard the henhouse.

[dusty14u]

I did just a little googling after reading this and the total for all wars is grossly wrong also. One of the sites lists them out for each war.

http://www.militaryfactory.com/american_war_deaths.asp

The total is closer to 1.3 million or twice the number that was published in the article.

I sent an email to Mr Cohen asking about the veracity of his article.

[pbearperry]

Very interesting,now check out auto fatalities when ya get a chance.

[W.E.G.]

The article is the typical specious argument that is put forth by ignorant persons, or by conniving persons with a social agenda.

Its easy to count deaths by the bullet.

Its much harder to count how many deaths, injuries, and crimes were PREVENTED by the presence of a firearm.
The CONSTITUTION contemplates this reality.

[sig220mw]

Incompetent, subjective journalism is the norm rather than the exception these days. The 60's radicals grew up, learned how to quit throwing bombs, rocks and bottles and became politicians, teachers and reporters.

They are killing freedom from within. Too many people either don't see it or don't believe it and do nothing.

We need to KEEP speaking up and pointing this out.

[gopguy]

I guess lying about 200,000 people does not matter to the anti gunners...

Contact the Ombudsman too.

ombudsman@washpost.com

[1911austin]

It's the gun that did it.


Nice last sentence. What a tool. I’m not going to waste any time or effort to get this idiot to change his mind. The time will be better spent talking with people who can apply reason and logic instead of senseless fear and ignorance. I would support some sort of key board control, as Mr. Cohen
should not have one.

[Harley Quinn]

It is an astonishing number of deaths, give or take several thousand:what:

[Davey Wavey]

It's so easy to mouth off at someone who is just SO SO SO wrong. I took a breather and sent him this.

Sir,
Your last words were "It's the gun that did it". Please show me one
instance where a gun by itself and not under the control of any person loaded,
aimed, and fired itself resulting in the death of any person.
Also, you made the suggestion of changing the Second Amendment to only allow
long guns. In many instances a long gun requires two hands to operate. Many
shotguns and rifles require an operation between shots to be fired. Most long
guns in general require two hands for safe operation and accurate aim. What of
the citizen who is handicapped? Perhaps a citizen is an amputee or one arm has
become unusable due to sickness or an accident. Must they live their lives at an
even greater disadvantage?
What happened in Arizona is terrible. What is also terrible are the
reactions from those that think that guns are evil and are only made to murder
people. I wish the person responsible for this crime had used a homemade bomb or
just plowed through the crowd of people with a U Haul rental truck instead. Of
course I wish even more that it never happened at all.

Hoping you never find yourself wishing you had a handgun,

David

[Black Toe Knives]

Current Murder rates are at their early 70's levels.

[Finprof]

Cohen is correct in the numbers - as far as the numbers go. It includes people who are shot by police or shopkeepers defending themselves and suicides by gunshot. Correct, but misleading.

[AKPastor]

I am pleased at how many rational people there are in America. The posts seem to reveal that Americans are smart, love freedom, and are not as stupid as some liberals seem to think. The gun control folks are a loud group, but do not seem to be a large group. I hope that Americans will continue to vote and speak out to the shame and defeat of these few who would steal our rights and soil the Constitution

[Harley Quinn]

Just the facts...
Very good read:)

This research is based upon the most recent available data in 2010. Facts from earlier years are cited based upon availability and relevance, not to slant results by singling out specific years that are different from others. Likewise, data associated with the effects of gun control laws in various geographical areas represent random, demographically diverse places in which such data is available.

As one mentioned those who are interested need to digest :D

http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp

[Black Butte]

Writing Richard Cohen is pointless. The more gun owners he agitates the happier he is. The letters will simply be viewed by him as a badge of honor. You need to be writing the editor and pointing out Cohen's unprofessional journalism. Tell the editor that their publishing false facts leaves the integrity and reputation of the Washington Post suspect.

[Harley Quinn]

The article written is to generate readers looking/buying etc. good reviews or bad, all letters are looked at as a feather in the cap of the writer IMHO


Information from the link I posted earlier...

:)


Based upon surveys, the following are estimates of private firearm ownership in the U.S. as of 2010:

Households With a Gun........Adults Owning a Gun ... Adults Owning a Handgun
Percentage 40-45% .............30-34% ......................17-19% .......
Number .....47-53 million .....70-80 million.................40-45 million


* A 2005 nationwide Gallup poll of 1,012 adults found the following levels of firearm ownership:


Category Percentage Owning a Firearm...

Households 42%
Individuals 30%
Male 47%
Female 13%
White 33%
Nonwhite 18%
Republican 41%
Independent 27%
Democrat 23%


* In the same poll, gun owners stated they own firearms for the following reasons:

Protection Against Crime 67%
Target Shooting 66%
Hunting 41%


Crime and Self-Defense

* Roughly 16,272 murders were committed in the United States during 2008. Of these, about 10,886 or 67% were committed with firearms.[11]

[Jamie B]

Current Murder rates are at their early 70's levels.
The murder rate has always been 0.01% of total US population consistantly since 1960.

Total violent crime (murder, manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery and aggravated assault) as a percentage of total US population has increased since 1960 through 1999, and dropped off in the 2000's:

60's average 0.21%
70's average 0.45%
80's average 0.59%
90's average 0.67%
00's average 0.47%

Source:FBI Uniform Crime Statistics http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/ucr

Bottom line is that violent crime has been increasing.

DWhite's information is exactly correct - same that I received on query.

[Jamie B]

davey wavey:
I wish the person responsible for this crime had used a homemade bomb or
just plowed through the crowd of people with a U Haul rental truck instead.
Not helpful at all.

[Davey Wavey]

I then proceeded to state that I wish it hadn't happened at all.

Let's be honest here. The overnight resurgence in gun control wouldn't have happened if the guy had not used a gun. I was making a point that it was a man responsible and not an object. That was eluded to early on in my email.

So yes, the sentence by itself is not helpful but the sentence isn't the only one in the entire email.

[sig220mw]

Reporters are supposed to fact check? I had no idea.

[TexasBill]

As I have posted elsewhere, a young man in Japan may hang for killing seven people and injuring ten more in Tokyo. He killed three with a rented truck then used a dagger to stab fourteen more, four of whom died. Among those he stabbed was a Tokyo police officer who was saved by his ballistic vest.

IN 1995 AUM Shinrikyo killed 12 people and injured 6,000 with a Sarin nerve gas attack on the Tokyo subway system.

Japan regulates firearm ownership very tightly; it's virtually impossible for a civilian to own a handgun and it's difficult to own anything else. This doesn't seem to have slowed the nutjobs down any.

[Davey Wavey]

As I have posted elsewhere, a young man in Japan may hang for killing seven people and injuring ten more in Tokyo. He killed three with a rented truck then used a dagger to stab fourteen more, four of whom died. Among those he stabbed was a Tokyo police officer who was saved by his ballistic vest.

I have to admit that I did catch your post on that not too long ago. I found it eerily representative of the email I sent to Richard Cohen.

[Davek1977]

Even assuming that some of those deaths were suicides or accidents, the gun is what did it. With absurd belief system that actually allows one to fully believe that inanimate objects are capable of harmful actions in and of themselves, no amount of correction will enlighten this person. Despite the skewed facts, its the belief system itself that is the problem. I cannot fathom people naive enough to blame a tool rather than the hand weidling it to ever accept correction in any meaningful way

[Jamie B]

So yes, the sentence by itself is not helpful but the sentence isn't the only one in the entire email.
And that is the one sentence that he will focus upon.

[Davey Wavey]

^^ Would you expect any different? I can't stop someone from putting blinders on and going into tunnel vision mode.

[Jamie B]

My point is to always choose your words very carefully.

[AKElroy]

+1 to careful word choice. I recently gave a 1 hour interview related to my business, and was horrified to see only 1 sentence out of hundreds quoted on the front page of the paper. It was badly out of context, and made the opposite point of my position on that issue. The press is agenda driven. Period.