Del-Ton Dissipator


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Quaamik
January 12, 2011, 09:41 PM
Has anyone built a Dissipator from one of Del-Ton's kits?

How did it run? Reliable? Not?

I'm looking for first hand opinons on this, no hearsay please.

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Z-Michigan
January 12, 2011, 11:36 PM
Here's an extremely detailed review of a DTI M4 upper, which will be informative for you:

http://vuurwapenblog.com/2010/10/10/del-ton-16-m4-barrel-assembly/

In case it isn't clear, that is a fairly positive review, considering the price point.

I own a DTI midlength upper (actually, from a complete DTI rifle kit) and it's been very good for me.

With the dissipator, you're basically buying a CAR/M4 length gas system setup with rifle handguards. Reliability is likely to be the same as any other CAR 16" setup from them. You will probably want an H or H2 buffer, and it will never be quite as smooth as a midlength. If you can accept that, it should be good.

DTI is an excellent value for the price point, and their quality and material standards have been steadily improving to where I would put them solidly "middle tier" among AR builders.

Quaamik
January 13, 2011, 06:55 PM
Thanks, however the DTI Dissipator kit uses a rifle length gas assembly. I'm wondering if it will be reliable.

Z-Michigan
January 13, 2011, 08:50 PM
EVERY other dissipator I've heard of has used a carbine length gas system under the handguards. The standard gas block/FSB is used only as a front sight and handguard mount, and a separate low profile gas block is installed at an appropriate point on the barrel underneath the handguards. That is the whole point of the concept. It would not be reliable with a 16" barrel and a rifle-length gas system. (Although apparently some 3-gun shooters get by with a 17" barrel and rifle-length gas setup.)

I went to DTI's website and couldn't find anything to clarify what gas system it's using, but it would be unique if it were simply a rifle gas system on a 16" barrel. DTI generally seems to know what they're doing, and it would be somewhere in the gap between "highly experimental" and "downright stupid" to have a rifle gas 16" barrel.

DTI usually replies to email quickly, I would suggest emailing them to confirm the gas system length on their dissipator model.

FWIW, BCM has talked about doing a 16" dissipator with a midlength gas system under the handguards.

mc223
January 13, 2011, 09:16 PM
It is my understanding that the purpose of the "dissapator system" is to increase the sight radius of the carbine to rifle length.

kwelz
January 13, 2011, 09:18 PM
There is talk of BCM doing one. I would skip DTI and wait for them or another quality company to make the dissy.

Quaamik
January 13, 2011, 09:20 PM
I e-mailed DTI and thier response was that it is a rifle length tube.

That's why I'm questioning it. I had heard the dissi's were normaly carbine or mid length tubes. I wondered if it would be reliable.

highorder
January 13, 2011, 09:28 PM
I e-mailed DTI and thier response was that it is a rifle length tube.

Can you clarify?

Did Delton mean it was a rifle length handguard tube? It should be. Did they say gas tube, gas system? I've never seen a dissapator with rifle gas on a 16" barrel. I'd like to see this cleared up as well.

mc223
January 13, 2011, 09:32 PM
I e-mailed DTI and thier response was that it is a rifle length tube

Are you saying that the gas tube is rifle length or the handgaurd?

Quaamik
January 13, 2011, 09:32 PM
I e-mailed:
Question regarding your 16 Dissipator rifle kit.

Is the gas block located mid length (under the hand guards) with a false gas block for the front sight, or is the actual gas block under the front sight (full length)?



Thier reply:
Our dissipator runs a full length or" standard length" gas sytem.
Thanks,
Joel

mc223
January 13, 2011, 09:36 PM
Well Im out. That seems to me to be an issue of inadequate gas volume to the system from the barrel length after the gas port.

highorder
January 13, 2011, 09:41 PM
Thier reply:
Our dissipator runs a full length or" standard length" gas sytem.
Thanks,
Joel

That's a new one for me. The shortest barrel I've seen or heard running rifle gas was 17". I'm curious what size the gas port is, and what kind of feedback users have.

Z-Michigan
January 14, 2011, 11:21 AM
I e-mailed:
Question regarding your 16” Dissipator rifle kit.

Is the gas block located mid length (under the hand guards) with a false gas block for the front sight, or is the actual gas block under the front sight (full length)?



Thier reply:
Our dissipator runs a full length or" standard length" gas sytem.
Thanks,
Joel

Wow.

I've never heard of anyone attempting a 16" barrel with a rifle gas setup before. Maybe an active garage tinkerer or something, but no serious manufacturer.

Sounds like extreme beta-tester challenge to me. I wouldn't touch it. DTI just lost some credibility in my view.

Z-Michigan
January 14, 2011, 11:25 AM
There is some excellent info on gas port location on this page, including dwell time info at the bottom:

http://www.ar15barrels.com/prod/operation.shtml

I highly recommend it. You will see that a 16" barrel with rifle gas port location has a dwell time of 0.078 millisecond, which is less than half of what's considered a good idea. Compare both dwell time and average pressure of that setup to known reliable setups (e.g. 20" rifle, 16" midlength, 14.5" CAR) and newer, not-widely-accepted but often reliable setups (18" rifle, 14.5" midlength).

I would be really interested to hear (1) DTI's explanation for this unusual design decision, and (2) anyone who can report reliability of this setup (just like the OP asked in post #1, but most of us didn't get) which does not seem at all likely to be reliable.

Quaamik
January 14, 2011, 11:00 PM
Thanks Z-michigan.

Rshooter
January 16, 2011, 02:04 PM
I must be really confused here. :what: I thought the whole reason of a "dissapator" was to run a 16 inch rifle with a standard sight radius and gas tube. This is supposed to make the rifle more reliable and easier to sight.

And do not be worried about DTI's credibility. DPMS first came out with this idea.

highorder
January 16, 2011, 02:13 PM
I thought the whole reason of a "dissapator" was to run a 16 inch rifle with a standard sight radius and gas tube.

You're half right.

Traditionally Dissapators have always been carbine gas with a second gas block at the rifle position. With the introduction of FF rail mounted sights, you can use any gas you like with a long handguard. I have a middy with a rifle length tube over it.

P.B.Walsh
January 16, 2011, 02:42 PM
What would be the problem running a rifle length gas tube in a 16" barrell, would it not just be like a standard 20" with less velocity? Please explain this to me, I am very confused.

Welding Rod
January 16, 2011, 02:58 PM
I think CMMG offers a rifle length gassed dissy too.

Personally I would go with a mid-length.

highorder
January 16, 2011, 03:00 PM
What would be the problem running a rifle length gas tube in a 16" barrell, would it not just be like a standard 20" with less velocity? Please explain this to me, I am very confused.

The ling Z-Michigan posted covers a lot of ground. Give it a read.

minutemen1776
January 26, 2011, 12:03 PM
I'm also interested in a Dissipator upper, so long as it's done correctly. From what's available currently, that appears to be CMMG. Their mid-length gassed Dissy runs about $625. Does anyone know if this can be bought from CMMG without the BCG/charging handle and, if so, what's the price difference? Also, does anyone have a clue as to when BCM may be offering a Dissipator? I wonder what their price point will be, and what barrel contour they'll use for this platform. I've been pleased with my experiences with BCM, so I'd trust them to get a Dissy done right.

Darthbauer
January 26, 2011, 12:32 PM
FWIW, BCM has talked about doing a 16" dissipator with a midlength gas system under the handguards.

I'd buy that. DTI, not so much.

Luckytrey
January 26, 2011, 12:36 PM
I have a freind who built one and it runs without hiccup. It does have a rifle gas system which makes plenty of sense if you are running a rifle buffer. Use a carbine gas system if you run a carbine buffer.

Wareagle5.0
January 26, 2011, 05:03 PM
I have a dissy from model 1. It has carbine length gas system and runs very well so far.

Sparta326
January 26, 2011, 05:41 PM
DTIs have the standard length gas system on the dissipators. DPMS (3 years ago, I'm not sure about now) had the same set up with the rifle length. They are good to go unless you shoot low pressured rounds.
Everyone thinks "oh, it's the same gas system as a 20", but it isn't. The 20" has 4" more rifling which allows more gas to escape (because it takes 4" longer for the projectile to leave the muzzle) in the upper for proper cycling. Since it is a 16" barrel, you would need to shoot a hotter round to make up for the <4".

nipprdog
January 26, 2011, 07:06 PM
DTIs have the standard length gas system on the dissipators. DPMS (3 years ago, I'm not sure about now) had the same set up with the rifle length. They are good to go unless you shoot low pressured rounds.
Everyone thinks "oh, it's the same gas system as a 20", but it isn't. The 20" has 4" more rifling which allows more gas to escape (because it takes 4" longer for the projectile to leave the muzzle) in the upper for proper cycling. Since it is a 16" barrel, you would need to shoot a hotter round to make up for the <4".

Well, that's cool. I called DTI about 90 minutes ago to ask them about this, since I've looking at the Dissipator. I told her about this thread on THR, and was told the exact same thing.

Looks like someone from DTI joined up to post the info. I was going to post what I was told on the phone, but just now got a chance to post. :D

Sparta326
January 27, 2011, 10:18 AM
LOL! Yep. That was me. We can also build a mock-up dissipator...carbine or mid-length gas system with a lo-pro gas block and FF forearm. As of right now, we don't have the barrels to put a FSB at standard length on a carbine.

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