Help Wanted 30.06 rifle remington failure


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folsoh
January 12, 2011, 11:02 PM
Okay, after a recent trigger/safety failure of my brand new remington 700 sps (DM) rifle in 30.06 caliber. Yes remington fans it had the adjustable x mark trigger which caused the rifle to fire almost everytime it was switched from safety to fire. (I might also add that there was no altering to this gun it was in orginal factory condition) SO much so that when I sent it back to remington they kept it and refunded 100% of the purchase price to me. So despite what long time remington fans tell you....the x mark trigger is not safe. I am heart broken over the deal as I have been a remington shooter for 20 plus years, but I will not own another one.

Anyways I find myself in need of a new rifle and I want your suggestions. I want the follow criteria in my new rifle:

> non remington brand
> 30.06 caliber only (165 grain bullets my favorite)
> synthetic stock...not cheap plastic either
> non stainless steel finish. I just dont like the shine.
> price range between $800 and $1500
> primarily a hunting rifle for Missouri whitetail deer
> some random target shooting
> must group..(1.5 or less) ..I want a consistent group...not a hit or miss production rifle

I already have a brand new Leupold VX3 scope 3.5 x 10 . 40mm with 165 grain CDS 30.06nturret scope for the rifle.

This will be my primary hunting rifle and I want to make a good investment that I will be happy with for many years. Any ideas or suggestions as to what I should look at are appreciated more than I can say....thank you

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blackops
January 12, 2011, 11:07 PM
Winchester M70.

JDMorris
January 12, 2011, 11:10 PM
I like my Howa .308, the .30-06 model is nice too, I just like the shorter action..
Howa M-1500's are going to range from 425-525 bucks.

Craigman
January 12, 2011, 11:28 PM
Browning X-Bolt. I have one in .338 and it shoots great, feels "right" and has a cool syn stock.

GuysModel94
January 13, 2011, 01:36 AM
The second vote for the Model 70; you might also check out the Wby. Mark V Syn..

DPris
January 13, 2011, 01:49 AM
The trigger that's the center of all the fuss was the older one.
The X Mark Pro is only about two years old.
Which one did you have?

While any mechanical device can fail, I worked with a new BDL in .30-06 a few months back & it ran fine.
I wouldn't turn my back on Remington.

Denis

nathan
January 13, 2011, 02:34 AM
Maybe a lemon amongst the many newer Remington 700s. Im glad nothing bad happened.

Abel
January 13, 2011, 05:27 AM
X-Bolt Composite Stalker.

OYE
January 13, 2011, 08:07 AM
I guess Weatherby still guarantees theirs to shoot 1.5 moa (does anyone else ? ). The action design is certainlythe equal of any of them. I don't own one, but I would certainly lean in that direction if I was considering it. If that is below your price range, you could special order one with engraving or something of that order.

rajb123
January 13, 2011, 09:29 AM
I own a Winchester M70 circa 1994 (bought new) and it has control round feeding. It cost me $500 but I believe the prices are around $1K now.

Anyway, in .338 WM it is NOT a tack driver.

Although I do not own a Savage, many here say they are VERY accurate and that they provide the best value amoung popular manufacturers.

Pulsar
January 13, 2011, 10:41 AM
cant go wrong with a Savage
never tried a m70 before, Browning's are very nice but pricey
too bad about your Remington i really like mine

did you ever try and adjust it to a heavier pound pull?
just curious

folsoh
January 13, 2011, 11:19 AM
Thanks for all of the advice so far.

As far a my remington it had the new x mark adjustable trigger. I never adjusted it. I like the way it pulled straight out of the box. After it misfired I tried to adjust it only to learn that it continually fired when placed off safety and the trigger adjustment didnt matter.

According to remington you can even take the adjustment screw out and fire it at the lowest default setting (2 pounds) and its safe.

All I can tell you is sitting in a hunting blind with a 10 year old. I clicked the weapon from safe to fire with no fingers in or anywhere near the trigger guard on a gun that was two months old and had been fired 25 times. The gun fired scaring us both to death. I had no choice but to get rid of the rifle for my own peace of mind. I wish you the best with your remington but as for me until they up their quaility control we are done.

UniversalFrost
January 13, 2011, 11:30 AM
if your price range is the 800-1500 range as you mentioned in your original post I would highly recommend either a Kimber or a Weatherby Mark V ......

If you want to have a complete package for 800-1500 here is what i would get (if buying new)

Weatherby Vanguard Sub-Moa (buds has killer prices on these and I have one) or if you can find a USED or LIKE NEW MK V on GB or AA get it.
Warne 1 piece mount with Warne medium rings
Burris Signature 4-12 x 40

If the trigger is a bit sloppy or gravely I would instantly go with a Timney or Jard (100 to 150).

complete package would run you around $1000 to 1100.


Or here is a recent package i put together (rifle was actually purchased from a fellow THR member)

Wincheser Model 70, 30/06 blued 24" barrel with iron sights, walnut stocked.
Warne 2 piece mount with warne QR rings
Nikon Buckmasters (the buckmasters are always last years Monarchs) 3-9x40 with BDC reticle

The entire package cost me $600 (including the shipping and FFL fees). At 100 meters I have nice clover leaf patterns with the bullets touching (using hand loads, but even the cheap federal 150 and 180gr SP will pattern very similiar.

NCsmitty
January 13, 2011, 11:41 AM
T. C. Venture is a good value, and boasts 5R rifling with an accuracy guarantee of 1" at 100yds, and under $500. That leaves room for good glass in the budget.

http://www.tcarms.com/firearms/venture.php



NCsmitty

SlamFire1
January 13, 2011, 11:42 AM
Try to find a M70 with this type of trigger. This action is FN PBR, FN later changed the trigger. But all previous M70's, pre 64, push feed, have this trigger.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/SlamFire/M70%20pics/M70action1.jpg

I was at a gun show this weekend and saw a couple of push feed M70's. They were reasonably priced. There is nothing wrong with a push feed M70, it is just the market prefers the controlled round feed.

I really like the M70 action, smooth and slick. The safety positively cams the firing pin back. With the firing pin held back you can empty the magazine. Given that commercial rifles have an over ride trigger, this is the safest procedure to empty "from the top" that I am aware of.

DM~
January 13, 2011, 12:05 PM
Over the years i've fixed many firearms of all brands... Had i got THAT new Rem., it would have went back with a BIG "fix or replace" sign on it!

YES i have fixed other brands with trigger problems, so....

DM

Vern Humphrey
January 13, 2011, 12:05 PM
I second the remarks about the old Model 70 trigger. I've had an enclosed trigger freeze up on me when hunting in bad weather in the Rockies.

longdayjake
January 13, 2011, 01:08 PM
M70 winchester.

ants
January 13, 2011, 01:12 PM
If your criteria is 1.5 moa, don't get a Weatherby.

They can only do half that size group. :neener: :p :neener:

rbernie
January 13, 2011, 01:15 PM
A Tikka T3 Hunter will not disappoint.

folsoh
January 13, 2011, 08:01 PM
I was wondering how satisfied are weatherby owners with thier guns>????

kpolivier101
January 13, 2011, 09:50 PM
Owning three Weatherby's doesn't make me an expert, but the ones i have all shoot under 1". I also reload all of them as they are weatherby mags calibers but if you are looking for a good 30-06, my cousin has 2 vanguards both in 30-06 and i have seen him shoot and he has one that shoot about 1-1/2" w/ a 180gr. bullet and the other shoots 3/4" groups using a 165gr bullet. Oh we shoot and sight in our rifles at 150 yds.

BrocLuno
January 13, 2011, 10:17 PM
There are some very nice 30-06 rifles out there. The ones in this PDF are some of the ones I have admired from afar: http://www.verney-carron.com/pdf/brochures-2009-US-Impact-Plus.pdf

But there are so many choices. Most have mentioned US made arms and they are certianly in the running. But, I think I'd be looking at TIKKA or Sako in my short list. I don't say buy one. I do say go look at one. Not a lite as you'll be unhappy with the stock - it's very light and feels a bit flimsy. A standard weight syn stock would be my feel and fit tester.

The TIKKA action was specifically designed around the 30-06 cartridge. Sure they can shoot shorter rounds if they are setup for it, but the 06 is the ideal fit for that action. I have found the feel coming to shoulder to be nearly ideal for me. 5' 11" and about 240. It might not fit you so well and that's fine - just cross it off the list. But if it does fit you, I think you'll find the bolt and the action VERY pleasing - as in smoother than a baby's butt :)

They will meet your 1.5" accuracy standard out of the box :)

Freedom_fighter_in_IL
January 14, 2011, 01:16 AM
Got to put in another vote for the Savage. This one falls well within your criteria.

http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/111FNS

Since you already have a nice scope, just get you a good base and ring set and away you go. It is really hard to beat a savage in accuracy out of the box. And the accutrigger is A+. Very positive feel to it. With the money you saved ( $100 less MSRP than what you said) you can gain some really nice brownie points by taking the wife out to a nice dinner!

Durty
January 14, 2011, 01:36 AM
That may be the saddest story I heard all day. Model 700 disappointing someone. That's rare. Regardless of what anyone wants to think, the 700 is the standard for a classic, solid, reliable, accurate bolt gun.

BrocLuno
January 14, 2011, 01:12 PM
Gee - I thought that was either the pre-64 M70 or the Springfield 03 A3 ??

Vern Humphrey
January 14, 2011, 01:15 PM
Those two or the Model 98 Mauser.

Col. Plink
January 14, 2011, 02:04 PM
+1 on Sako/Tikka, in your price range. I mean, it's a Sako!

VAhuntr
January 15, 2011, 12:14 AM
Browning X-Bolt or TC Icon.

70extreme
January 15, 2011, 10:49 AM
I sold my Remington 700 ADL last year and have never looked back. I have a M70 Sporter and a M70 SS Extreme. These two guns are better in EVERY WAY than the Remington 700.

Better safety - 3 position
Better stock
Mag latch is on the outside of the trigger guard
Better workmanship
Better extractor

You can't go wrong with the new Winchesters.

BoilerUP
January 15, 2011, 12:10 PM
Another vote for a Savage 111.

It'll shoot sub-1" @ 100yd all day long with quality factory ammunition and come in WAY under your price point; you can also easily upgrade stocks or swap barrels if you decide you want to dry a different caliber.

H&Hhunter
January 15, 2011, 03:52 PM
I sold my Remington 700 ADL last year and have never looked back. I have a M70 Sporter and a M70 SS Extreme. These two guns are better in EVERY WAY than the Remington 700.

Better safety - 3 position
Better stock
Mag latch is on the outside of the trigger guard
Better workmanship
Better extractor

You can't go wrong with the new Winchesters.

Ditto,

These new M-70's are the way to go.

Durty
January 15, 2011, 04:51 PM
Ok- but as far as modern rifles go... the 700 is the standard. But yes, I agree with you on the Spgfld, pre 64 m70, and the 98.

jmr40
January 15, 2011, 05:05 PM
Since 2008 the new Winchesters have raised the bar and set a new standard.

folsoh
January 21, 2011, 07:00 PM
What has made the new winchesters so good???

HKGuns
January 21, 2011, 07:06 PM
Get a new Sako A7 for around $700. Winchester is no longer Winchester as far as I am concerned.

I looked at Winchester when I bought my Sako. The Winchesters were not the equal of the mid level Sako A7 when I was handling them.

The Sako action was smoother than anything else I handled.
The Sako trigger breaks like glass out of the box.
The Sako is a 3 lug action.
The Sako has a really nice soft touch synthetic stock.
The Sako is extremely light and balances very well.
My Sako will shoot inside an inch easily, but can be somewhat ammo sensitive.

rbernie
January 21, 2011, 08:17 PM
Since 2008 the new Winchesters have raised the bar and set a new standardThe new ones that I've seen had flimsy and poorly constructed safeties, unimpressive wood, mediocre fit, uneven finishes, and high prices - hardly inspiring stuff. I suppose if you HAVE to have a CRF and you can't bring yourself to spend 50% less on a Ruger, then maybe a new M70 is just what you need. ;)

Me? I'll take a Ruger M77MkII for a CRF gun or a Tikka T3 for a push-feed gun over any of the Win or Remmie offerings.

Buzzard
January 21, 2011, 08:33 PM
Savage, Tikka T3, or T/C Venture. All three have great triggers, smooth bolts, wonderful accuracy and prices that are rather friendly to the wallet.

jdh
January 21, 2011, 10:46 PM
Cz 550

HKGuns
January 21, 2011, 11:04 PM
I'm starting to think Remington isn't being completely truthful with the shooting public on this topic. It is going to hurt their sales and damage their already soiled reputation.

Coal Dragger
January 22, 2011, 02:14 AM
Well a .30-06 with a synthetic stock that isn't injection molded plastic of some sort and is pretty tough in your price range.

The Kimber 84L is not offered in .30-06 with their laid up fiberglass and kevlar stock, at least not according to their website.

Might I suggest a Cooper Arms Model 52 in either the Excalibur or Jackson Hunter models? Bell and Carlson Medalist stock of laid up fiberglass and kevlar with aluminum bedding block, match grade barrel, great trigger, guaranteed accuracy of 1/2 MOA at 100yds with match ammo. Mine (Jackson Hunter in .280AI) so far has been a great shooter, and consistently puts three rounds of 140gr Nosler Accubonds into right around .6", and will usually hold five shots in less than .75". Thus far the rifle has yet to shoot a group over 1" at 100yds, even when I think I have pulled a shot. Frankly I am holding the rifle back, I imagine it will shoot sub 1/2 MOA but I can't.

Downside is you'll blast through your price cap by about $150.00.

Skylerbone
January 22, 2011, 02:55 AM
For around $350 you can buy a Marlin XL7 in blue/camo. Generally speaking group size is shooter dependent. You need not concern yourself with spending big money on a deer rifle. Nice rifles are great, the most accurate ones would require a Missouri mule to carry.

Should you decide the stock isn't up to snuff you'll have money to spare for an aftermarket one though with most field shooting I've never found one to be too objectionable, I'm sure there are exceptions and differing expectations.

Good action, good barrel, good glass and good shooter are the recipe for full freezer. If the Marlin doesn't suit you, look at the T/C or the Tikka. At 200 yards they should all shoot minute of deer vitals.

FWIW "Can't go wrong with brand xxx" can be disproved by any number of threads in these here archives as can "best out of the box accuracy". Remember what private Pyle said: "This is my rifle. There are many others like it but this one is mine." Good luck with which ever you choose to make yours.

oerllikon
January 22, 2011, 03:44 AM
For around $350 you can buy a Marlin XL7 in blue/camo. Generally speaking group size is shooter dependent. You need not concern yourself with spending big money on a deer rifle. Nice rifles are great, the most accurate ones would require a Missouri mule to carry.

Should you decide the stock isn't up to snuff you'll have money to spare for an aftermarket one though with most field shooting I've never found one to be too objectionable, I'm sure there are exceptions and differing expectations.

Good action, good barrel, good glass and good shooter are the recipe for full freezer. If the Marlin doesn't suit you, look at the T/C or the Tikka. At 200 yards they should all shoot minute of deer vitals.

FWIW "Can't go wrong with brand xxx" can be disproved by any number of threads in these here archives as can "best out of the box accuracy". Remember what private Pyle said: "This is my rifle. There are many others like it but this one is mine." Good luck with which ever you choose to make yours.\
Id also recommend an XL7 if you want a long action. You could rebarrel, restock, put some nice glass on top, and you probably could still be inside your price point. They use the M70 scope bases and savage barrel system. The Stevens 200 is comparable, but the 111 is also a great rifle

Watergoat
January 22, 2011, 01:19 PM
Another vote for the CZ 550. Fit and finish is great. The single set trigger has to be tried to be appreciated.

Skylerbone
January 22, 2011, 01:37 PM
If you've followed the OP's previous threads he already has a Leupold with CDS set up for the 165gr. as it shot from his 700. The goal is to keep him using the same or similar trajectory through a new rifle.

The CDS (Custom Dial System) is an engraved scope cap made by Leupold that allows the shooter to quickly adjust elevation by engraving yardage markers thus eliminating the need to count clicks.

To the OP, should you choose another rifle with an enclosed trigger, take care not to drown it in oil or anything else. It should need no lubrication or interaction. After pulling your bolt simply wipe off the top with a clean, dry rag. Just a precaution, I read about your rusted muzzleloader situation and was worried you may have coated that 700 in oil to prevent it from rusting as well. Remember too that storing it with a barrel full of oil will allow gravity to drain all of that oil down in to the action and potentially gum up your receiver (especially in the cold).

Good luck in your search and good luck on your hunts.

folsoh
January 22, 2011, 10:20 PM
I only used hopes # 9 and a boresnake,,,,,the rifle had no oil on it but thanks for your concern.

folsoh
January 22, 2011, 10:25 PM
any Cooper rifle shooters??? I been looking at thier excalibur model.

H&Hhunter
January 23, 2011, 06:04 PM
The new ones that I've seen had flimsy and poorly constructed safeties

rbernie,

It's never to late to stop smoking crack!;):D

BUT I do agree with you on the new M-70's that are finished in wood. It tends to be mother of fence post and can look like it was carved out with butter knife. The Extreme comes with one of the better composite stocks that you can buy on a mass production run of the mill rifle. As far as the safety though. Have you actually ever taken a M-77 MK II apart and looked at that pot metal "wilbreak" sorry excuse for a safety?:scrutiny:

I have a new M-77 Hawkeye in .358. The stock was the softest POS cheap plastic that I've ever encountered in fact when it got hot like when it was riding around in my Jeep in Texas in the summer it would get so soft that it would soften and would make the rifle totally unpredictable as far as accuracy was concerned. I put a B&C stock on it after two hunts that solved that problem. The rifle also had a bad habit of not going bang from time to time giving soft hits. SO I changed the firing pin spring to a stiffer one. Now would go bang MOST of the time but only when it was sparkling clean. SO I took it to the smith who found a big metal bugger in the firing pin channel in the bolt housing THANKS RUGER! It was a flaw where the CNC did a sloppy job of drilling out the channel.

My smith told me that these kind of things are a pretty common problem with Rugers. I've got a buddy who makes bolt on scout mounts and told me that he had to increase his machining tolerances by three fold for Ruger products because their machining is so sloppy since they "updated" their factory with new CNC machines.

So my "half" the cost M-77 wound being a 1K plus rifle to get it to the point of usability. I now consider it a cool tool.

To be totally fair my new M-70 extreme wasn't a peach out of the factory either and needed a bedding job and a re-crown before it met my accuracy standards for hunting rifle. But over all fit, finish and tolerances on the new M-70 blow any M-77 out of the water IMHO.

Skylerbone
January 23, 2011, 06:32 PM
I think he was referring to the often experienced stiff safety on the Winchester that sometimes requires a cheater bar to move. That's a minor bit of work compared to a few others.

H&Hhunter
January 23, 2011, 09:09 PM
Skyler,

What is the fix?

Skylerbone
January 23, 2011, 10:16 PM
Well if you're me you don't use the safety. If you're not familiar with how it works I don't recommend any modification save a stronger thumb.

H&Hhunter
January 23, 2011, 11:02 PM
Alrighty then.....

Skylerbone
January 24, 2011, 12:15 AM
So you find them all smooth as silk when manipulated? Postings like yours truly get under my skin. We both know info like that doesn't belong online for every guy with a Dremel to play with and yet you post the challenge anyway. Not very High Road. Your ruse isn't worthy of a reply save see your local gun smith. Aren't we all clever.

Vern Humphrey
January 24, 2011, 08:55 AM
any Cooper rifle shooters??? I been looking at thier excalibur model.
I haven't looked at a Cooper since he donated to Obama and then lied about it.

H&Hhunter
January 24, 2011, 10:39 AM
So you find them all smooth as silk when manipulated? Postings like yours truly get under my skin. We both know info like that doesn't belong online for every guy with a Dremel to play with and yet you post the challenge anyway. Not very High Road. Your ruse isn't worthy of a reply save see your local gun smith. Aren't we all clever.

Skylerbone

Wow,

You imagined that I issued you a challenge? You imagined that I somehow implied that all M-70's have "silky smooth" safeties? I am somehow being un high road?

All that from "alrighty then" as in over and out, no need to continue, message received and understood? That's a pretty big leap there guy.

Tim the student
January 24, 2011, 11:14 AM
I haven't looked at a Cooper since he donated to Obama and then lied about it.

Fair enough, but the guy is dead now. How do you feel about Rugers?

ETA: Actually, I recall hearing that he had passed. I'm not 100% sure that he is dead, but I am sure that the board asked him to step down, and he did. AFIK, he doesn't have anything to do with the company now. If he does, I'd like to know about it.

Coal Dragger
January 24, 2011, 03:30 PM
Cooper Arms is no longer owned (or even has anything to do with) Dan Cooper anymore. The guy who owns Wilson Arms bought the whole company. So there is no need to boycott the company's products, and all you accomplish by doing so is ruling out some very nice rifles that are 100% made in the USA by US workers.

The new man in charge of Cooper Firearms is also the President of Wilson Arms, Hugo Vivero. At least that is the name on the letter they sent me when I bought my Model 52 Jackson Hunter.

While the rifle had an initial issue with a manufacturing defect that I kvetched about, Cooper stood behind it and fixed the rifle within reasonable turn around time.

The rifle itself is the first one I have ever owned that right out of the box shot the first ammunition I could cram into the magazine into well under 1" for five shots at 100 yards after sight in. Just a bit over .7" to be exact, and the first 3 went into .6" on the nose. That was with Nosler Custom 140gr Accubonds in .280 Ackley Improved.

Frankly I have no doubt it will do a true 1/2 MOA with match ammo as Cooper states it will, I am a bit surprised to find it will get really close to that with a thick jacketed bonded core hunting bullet. I haven't even had a long enough break in the weather to work up hand loads yet, but given how much it likes 140gr Accubonds I am sure that with a little tweaking I can get a load down to or under .5" at 100 yards. I can probably use the 140gr Accubond on just about anything I am likely to hunt anytime in the foreseeable future, so maybe I just lucked out and got a rifle that really likes a tough versatile bullet and I didn't have to spend a lot of time searching for it.

A friend of mine bought a Cooper M52 in .280AI about a week or two after I bought mine (he claims I made him do it..) and it also shoots 140gr Accubonds very well. He has a bit more free time than I do, and worked up a load with some 160gr Partitions, and they shot about the same as the Accubonds albeit with a different point of impact. We'll see how mine does with the 160gr bullets tomorrow if the weather calms down a bit, I have two series of loads worked up in 160gr Accubonds, and 160gr Partitions. I am hopeful that like my buddy's Cooper, mine is consistently accurate with a variety of bullet styles and weights.

joed
January 24, 2011, 04:25 PM
There are 2 brands of rifles that I have liked since my early days of shooting. They are Remington and Winchester. To be honest I think the Winchesters are nicer then the Remingtons.

I have a model 70 Stealth in .308 that is amazingly accurate, from the first time I shot it. Also had a 70XTR in 7mm that shot excellent once I had some bedding work done. The model 70's have 3 position safetys. In all honesty I'd rather have a Winchester then Remington.

Third choice for me would be a Savage. I've owned 2 Savage rifles. One was very accurate, the second one not so much. The first rifle a 10fp in .223 had feeding issues. There was a 30% chance that the next round would not enter the chamber. I've talked to others that said their Savage rifle had feeding issues also.

My second Savage was a Stainless 12VSS with Choate stock. Expensive rifle in .22-250. No matter what I did it would string the shots vertically like the right side of a letter "V".

Leaky Waders
January 28, 2011, 06:10 PM
I'm interested to know about the coopers and dakotas...aren't they just a very well put together remington action - safety and all? Or are they something else?

Personally I like the new winchester model 70's and have recently purchased a weatherby mark v, but it came after I deployed so I haven't even got to touch it yet let alone scope it.

rbernie
January 28, 2011, 06:30 PM
Upon review, I have concluded that all the bickering over the Remington issue is off topic for this thread. The OP didn't ask for anyone's opinion of the problem. The OP asked for alternatives to the Remington.

Accordingly, I have deleted the off topic content (including my own past submissions). Let's try to keep this on topic.

snakeman
January 29, 2011, 05:11 PM
Howa or Savage

pacpiper
January 29, 2011, 06:24 PM
Surprised nobody mentioned the Marlin XL7 30-06 so I guess I'll throw it out there.

Take the money you'll save and upgrade your scope :p

Skylerbone
January 29, 2011, 07:43 PM
Post #42, Marlin XL7 so your's is a +1

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