The 7.62 x 54 R barks with authority


PDA






nathan
January 13, 2011, 01:36 PM
Glad that youtube with Hickok45 finally came up testing the Mosin rifle. Closed to end of the video, he said something about the .303 Brit and 54 R as almost the same . Your comments

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmVJYB3uDkc&feature=channel

If you enjoyed reading about "The 7.62 x 54 R barks with authority" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
ColtPythonElite
January 13, 2011, 01:45 PM
They are cheap fun. I paid 49 bucks for mine 20+ years ago at Rose's department store. It came in a cardboard box smeared with about 1/4 inch of grease from end to end. Ammo was about 10 cents a round. Hitting beer cans at 50 yards off a rest is pretty easy.

merlinfire
January 13, 2011, 02:13 PM
Mosin Nagant:

Cheapest WW2-era bolt action, but quite a margin. Cheapest centerfire rifle also, by quite a margin. And its not a bad gun either. Ironic I should say it but....


Every American should have one of these communist rifles!

Cosmoline
January 13, 2011, 02:18 PM
The 7.62x54R is more potent than the .303 British by a notch. It's in the same class as the .30'06 and 8x57JS. Though the difference between any of these isn't all that significant.

merlinfire
January 13, 2011, 03:53 PM
the primary full-power rifle round used by nearly every power in ww2 were very similar in performance....seems I read somewhere that the arisaka was similar to .303 also, or at least based on the same case

WardenWolf
January 13, 2011, 04:06 PM
He actually did this video back in July, looking at the date. He said he had to be "in the mood." I think he just had to be in the mood to have his shoulder abused. If I were in his position, I'd have been putting it off, too. My Mosin is a beast.

the primary full-power rifle round used by nearly every power in ww2 were very similar in performance....seems I read somewhere that the arisaka was similar to .303 also, or at least based on the same case

The Arisaka is basically a rimless .303 Brit. Their loading specs are identical, as is their bullet diameter. You can take powder charges and bullets from .303 Brits and use them in Arisaka 99 cases. It's worth noting, though, that the Arisaka 99 is a much stronger gun. In destructive testing, it was shown to be the second strongest action of WWII, second only to the Arisaka 38. People have loaded it to nuclear levels, with no ill effects.

merlinfire
January 13, 2011, 05:13 PM
People have loaded it to nuclear levels, with no ill effects.

Good thing we beat them to the nuke then! Depleted uranium, anyone? ;)

Hickock45 is a lot of fun and I love his videos. I used to live in the same area and its a shame I wasn't into guns back then.

Snowdog
January 13, 2011, 06:38 PM
I paid 49 bucks for mine 20+ years ago at Rose's department store. It came in a cardboard box smeared with about 1/4 inch of grease from end to end. Ammo was about 10 cents a round.

Same here. I purchased my No4 Mk1 for around $50 from Roses around '93, where I also purchases my Norinco "Type 56" SKS and Mossberg Maverick, both for around $99.

They also had a rack of Russian SVT-40 rifles for $129. To this day, I kick myself for not buying a couple.

harmon rabb
January 13, 2011, 06:46 PM
Mosin Nagant:

Cheapest WW2-era bolt action, but quite a margin. Cheapest centerfire rifle also, by quite a margin. And its not a bad gun either. Ironic I should say it but....

Every American should have one of these communist rifles!

Agreed. No gun collection is complete without a few Mosins. Fun; cheap; last forever; can serve as a short range hunting rifle. What's not to like?

cthulhufan
January 14, 2011, 01:39 AM
7.62x54R is an absolute hoot to shoot anytime :)

saturno_v
January 14, 2011, 03:17 AM
I't's funny when he said "I don't think it's going to pulverize that cinder block" and in fact it did....

the primary full-power rifle round used by nearly every power in ww2 were very similar in performance....

They were not....the 7,62x54R is on average 250-300 fps faster than the 303 British (150 & 180 gr. bullets) both loaded to their maximum specs (Hodgdon load data source)....while not an enormous difference is not trivial either.

The top 3 most powerful rounds in WWII were the following (very close performance, similar CIP pressure ratings and similar case capacity)

1) 30-06
2) 7,62x54R
3) 8x57 JS

After this group there was the 303 British which had significantly lower pressure rating (it was derived from a black powder cartridge)...the Arisaka round, if I'm not mistaken, was basically a ballistic twin of the 303.

Who knows about the round used by the French??

The least powerful was the 6.5mm Carcano which, ironically, is very close in performance to the "new" 6.5mm proposed military rounds (the 6.5 Grendel for example)

Salvatore Carcano figured out about 60 years before everybody else that you did not need a full power cartridge in most combat situations.

FoMoGo
January 14, 2011, 08:22 AM
My son loves shooting my M44.
http://www.turbopinto.com/images/guns/alexnagant.jpg
As do my wife and myself.
I honestly think its the best firearms buy/trade I have made... swapped a mossberg 500 barrel I never used for it. :D


Jim

Roan
January 14, 2011, 09:47 AM
I have two M/Ns. The first was a fairly standard 91/30 which I shot and enjoyed for many months. XMAS of the year I got it, I gave a Steyr Mannilicher to a friend of mine as a present, so he reciprocated by giving me an M44. Before I got the M44, I thought it was kind of silly with it's fold out bayonet and it's stubby look. After I got it, it quickly became my second favorite rifle in my collection. The shorter muzzle means that the first time I shoot it at the range, people look over to see what kind of buffalo rifle I'm shooting. Near sunset, things get even better when you can start to see the six foot gout of unholy flame exploding from the muzzle with each round. The few times I've fired it under cover, the amplified sound made people think my rifle exploded. :)

Navy_Guns
January 14, 2011, 01:25 PM
I just got ANOTHER Mosin yesterday, this one was an RGuns import I bought through Aim Surplus. Paid $69.95 plus $10 for hand pick (worth it!) and got a 1937 Tula manufacture 91/30 with a mint-condition bore. Blueing is perfect except a couple spots on the bottom edge of the magazine box where it's a little worn. The stock is pristine, with the bayonet and all the accessories - it looks like it was never issued.

Cosmoline
January 14, 2011, 02:38 PM
The top 3 most powerful rounds in WWII were the following (very close performance, similar CIP pressure ratings and similar case capacity)

1) 30-06
2) 7,62x54R
3) 8x57 JS

Your list needs a bit of adjustment. The .30'06, when loaded to its potential, heads up above the others. HOWEVER, the .30'06 ball load of WWII was a 152 grain bullet at 2740 FPS. The 8x57SJ standard ball was 154 at nearly 2900 fps.

henschman
January 14, 2011, 08:50 PM
meh, sling up tight and get in a solid position with a good pocket, cheek weld, and turkey neck and the recoil won't bother you. That rifle was designed for men, not crybabies! :D :D :evil:

Ignition Override
January 14, 2011, 09:05 PM
My common (Russian) MN 44 put a round of old Bulgarian through both sides of a large oxygen cylinder.
The cylinder was at least four feet long. The exit hole was not as symmetrical, but both holes from a friend's SVD were round.

My Yugo 48A Mauser seems to have a little bit more recoil with surplus Yugo or Czech ammo than any MN I've used, unless it is caused by the silver metal butt plate.

nathan: Hickok45's videos are my favorite by far, and not because of the wide variety.
We are about 3 1/2 hours away, and my goal is to go shoot with him sometime.

saturno_v
January 14, 2011, 09:43 PM
Your list needs a bit of adjustment. The .30'06, when loaded to its potential, heads up above the others. HOWEVER, the .30'06 ball load of WWII was a 152 grain bullet at 2740 FPS. The 8x57SJ standard ball was 154 at nearly 2900 fps.


There was some variance in military loading for both the 8X57 JS and the 7,62x54R....I heard of some FMJ ~150 grainers for the Russian rounds loaded at almost 3000 fps.

I know that the 30-06 loaded to its full potential is the #1 but not by that much. compared to the other 2.

The 303 British instead had a noticeable gap but, again, I heard of a Mark 8 round for the 303 British loaded particularly hot (for the Vickers machine gun) which was on par with the other 3.

Rancho Relaxo
January 14, 2011, 09:58 PM
This guy has some fun videos

A Historian
January 14, 2011, 10:43 PM
Regardless of whichever cartridge was initially loaded to more powerful specs, in terms of foot-poundage, or which one can be loaded to the highest in term of its full potential, each will kill you just as dead - with the same amount of authority.

Especially considering that the .303 British, far from the top of the power list, could take down elephants with the proper bullet construction and shot placement.

As for the 7.5x54 French, I know it's military loadings approximate the .303 British in terms of foot-pounds power. I've seen handloading data that steps it up a notch beyond, though.

Anyway, I remember coming across Hickock45 before on one of my wayward Youtube visits. I remember finding his videos interesting, so I'm glad to have been shown his channel again.

RNB65
January 14, 2011, 10:56 PM
Every American should have one of these communist rifles!

It's not a Commie gun. The MN went into production in 1892, a quarter century before the Communist Revolution. It's an Imperial Russian rifle!

nathan
January 14, 2011, 11:36 PM
Watching Hickoks video, it makes me want to shoot my M 91 30 hex dated 1933 again. I have smoothed the sear a little bit and it s now crisp like a M 39 Finn.

Just last week of Dec , i shot my M 91. 59 and using some Barnaul 203 gr SP, it was grouping really well at 100 yds. Again, these rifles are very simple and robust. What a brilliant design !

TriTone
January 14, 2011, 11:40 PM
I think the 303 has a bit of a distinct bark to it. Maybe its just me?

One of hickoks enfield vids
http://www.youtube.com/user/hickok45#p/search/5/ofJECHN4hh8

killchain
January 15, 2011, 12:38 AM
Wait, there's something else besides 7.62x54R?

Because it isn't needed! :D

If you enjoyed reading about "The 7.62 x 54 R barks with authority" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!