Which .308 black rifle for me?


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walleyealx
January 13, 2011, 09:25 PM
Basically I've narrowed it down to the RRA LAR-8 standard length (20" barrel) and the DPMS LR308 (24" stainless bull barrel). The armalite is out because I don't really like the look.

My main question is... does DPMS have any sort of MOA guarantee? I know that the LAR-8's from RRA say that they shoot MOA.

Any other suggestions?

Thanks ahead of time,

-Alex

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TexasPatriot.308
January 13, 2011, 09:31 PM
I cant believe you ruled out Armalite because of "the look" ...Armalite is the look, the original look, that is what AR stands for.

walleyealx
January 13, 2011, 09:38 PM
ok, we'll rule it in for now then. Does it have a MOA guarantee?


***Edit*** I see on their site that they have a 1.5-2 MOA guarantee

G27RR
January 13, 2011, 09:40 PM
The LaRue OBR has a sub-MOA guarantee, but it's not inexpensive. Awesome rifle though. http://www.larueosr.com

Not sure if it's guaranteed, but the AR-10T has a stated accuracy of 1 MOA.

http://www.armalite.com/ItemForm.aspx?item=10TNF&ReturnUrl=Categories.aspx?Category=f4bd4a13-55d1-41aa-aea0-49488ec48776

Mot45acp
January 13, 2011, 09:47 PM
What "look" are you referring to? They have any look the others offer. Its an AR (read: LEGOS)

walleyealx
January 13, 2011, 09:50 PM
ok, we'll just throw looks aside for now. I'm looking for under $1500 and MOA. Is RRA the only one that can guarantee that?

zstephens13
January 13, 2011, 11:01 PM
My RRA shoots way better than I can. From what I heard while I was shopping, RRA was better quality than dpms.

madcratebuilder
January 14, 2011, 08:16 AM
Accuracy is about barrel and chamber quality. These "accuracy guarantees" are with the manufacturers shooter. Sad truth is not that many moa owners. Buy the rifle you prefer and shoot the heck out of it, odds are it well out shoot anyone behind the trigger.

jem375
January 14, 2011, 11:55 AM
the DPMS 308 rifle is very accurate and has a very good reputation and I doubt if the RRA is more accurate...

duncan
January 14, 2011, 12:05 PM
Don't we all already have half a dozen ARs?

Why not look at Kel Tec's RFG in .308 that take FAL mags.

Sure it's a bullpup - but it is so bad. See . . .

http://www.americanrifleman.org/Webcontent/images/2009-10/20091030102444-w6287tar-4591_ms.jpg

W L Johnson
January 14, 2011, 12:18 PM
Why not look at Kel Tec's RFG in .308 that take FAL mags.
I think you mean RFB. Good luck finding one, I just happened to come across one that just arrived in the shop, it stayed in there only for about as long as it took me to fill out the paper work. They're going for around $1,500. They'll change your idea of Kel-Tec in a hurry.

DoubleTapDrew
January 14, 2011, 12:39 PM
I own a LAR-8 and from the various reports I've read on the DPMS guns they will shoot as good, if not better than the RRA. I've seen quite a few reviews with them shooting 1/3 MOA at 100 yards while the RRA can usually do 1MOA or a little better.
I went with the RRA in no small part due to the cost of the DPMS mags vs FAL mags, and of course just my luck, magpul started making P-mags for them and the price of FAL mags went up.
Something to consider is the RRA has a great 2-stage trigger and every report I've read on the DPMS is the factory trigger is complete garbage unless you order the expensive upgraded trigger, so figure that into the cost.

LeverGunJunkie
January 14, 2011, 01:38 PM
I have an LAR-8 and a DPMS Sportical in 5.56mm. Both shoot great on paper. The DPMS took about 200 rnds and a lot of Break Free to break in; as it was short-stroking 3 times every 20 rounds. Still needs a good coat of CLP on the BCA before hitting the range. No complaints though, except the mil-spec trigger which I readily accept.

When I was shopping for a 7.62 AR, it came down to the LAR-8 and the DPMS LR-308B. The RRA trigger did for me. The RRA has yet to malfunction in any way with a variety of mags.

W.E.G.
January 14, 2011, 02:37 PM
Shouldn't the subject heading be "Which .308 AR for me?"

I wanted to recommend the FAL.

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd7/rkba2da/rifle%20pics/FAL/scowler1.jpg

henschman
January 14, 2011, 09:11 PM
They will all do MOA or better if you know how to shoot that well. The bull barreled DPMS will probably be slightly more accurate since it has a stainelss steel barrel... but it will weigh a whole hell of a lot more. That would be an OK choice if you want a gun to shoot off the bench with all day, but if you are talking about a rifle for any kind of practical use, you may find it too heavy. If you want a heavy bull barreled bench gun, RRA and Armalite make rifles with that kind of barrel too. If you want a nice 20" light profile barrel, like a battle rifle, DPMS doesn't have anything in that category while the standard RRA and Armalite do. They all have light profile barrels in 16" length though, if you want a flamethrower that will simultaneously blind you and give away your position in low light. The Armalite takes Armalite mags. The RRA uses FAL mags. The DPMS uses KAC/Magpul/c-products mags, which gives you better selection and price (FAL mags aren't as cheap as they once were).

Your original question was about accuracy, though. There is really not enough difference in accuracy between any of those to matter for any kind of practical application. What are you going to be doing with it, anyway? A deer won't care if one rifle shoots a 1/8" tighter group at 100 yards. Nor will a human. Heck, people online who you show your amazing sub-MOA groups you shot with the rifle in a table vise pulling the trigger with a string (which you would likely have to do to detect any inherent accuracy difference between these different makes) probably won't care, either.

The real question is what can you do with that rifle, or any rifle, from unsupported field positions?

Sadly that dirty Rhodie in the above pic could probably outshoot most .308 AR owners with that old beat-up R1A1 from field positions.

I would also prefer a FAL, or better yet, an M-14, to any of those direct impingement AR designs, but that's with my particular uses in mind and my own preferences. The most important thing is to buy a rifle, any rifle, and become proficient in it's use.

UnTainted
January 15, 2011, 11:53 AM
The armalite name was used by the original company that designed the AR series. The current armalite company only uses that name, but it is like the otter AR manufacturers: using modern AR designs and tech to build a .308 AR.

Now, I chose an armalite because they have been making their AR10 for years longer, so they've had a lot of time to advance their design, which they've done. You can read about things they've advanced, like the feed ramp technology, at ar15.com.

I picked up a simple armalite 16" infantry weight ar10 and it consistently shoots 1 moa from a bench with my finger pulling the trigger. Hen I upgrade the trigger and free float the barrel, I'm sure it'll do better.

I got it as a rifle for intemediate range hunting in trees and off a horse with a suppressor. I killed my deer with it in 09 with no problems standing shot that had to be taken quick. It's light and I cancarry it all day hunting with no problem.

I also own a dpms, ar15, that I bought before I started to learn a lot about ARs, and now I regret it seeing the quality difference between armalite and dpms. Don't get me wrong, they are good rifles, but I am more attracted to the fit finish and reliability of the armalite. I'm sure there are other 308 ARs that are a step up from armalite, like an sr25, but the price also goes up.

The armalite is bout 1200somethimg at budsgunshop.com, good deal.

Defense Minister
January 15, 2011, 07:22 PM
If it means anything to you, Magpul makes polymer 20 rd. mags for the DPMS that sell for $19. RRA uses FAL metric mags that cost more for used surplus. Armalite uses propriatary mags that are only available through the manufacturer for a premium price.

Accuracy from the DPMS is reportedly very good (<1moa), and there is a good supply of brand new, top quality, USA manufactured, affordable magazines available for it. That, for me, makes the choice obvious.

Good luck!

duncan
January 16, 2011, 10:25 PM
W L Johnson

I think you mean RFB. Good luck finding one, I just happened to come across one that just arrived in the shop, it stayed in there only for about as long as it took me to fill out the paper work. They're going for around $1,500. They'll change your idea of Kel-Tec in a hurry.


So you picked up the Kel Tec RFB! Awesome.

Kel Tec was started by a Swedish gun designer (George Kellgren) in Florida and he and his company are just getting started.

With his pocket .32 and .380 handguns, their ultra-thin 9mm's, their .223 pistols, and now this RFB all affordable. Great customer service.

Little Kel Tec started something. Now Ruger and Kahr are also offering .380 pocket pistols all due to Kel Tec serving that market.

And their folding carbines (Sub-2000) that take Glock or SW mags are really handy too. Miss my Kel Tec Sub-9.

So have you shot that RFB?

W L Johnson
January 18, 2011, 02:09 PM
So have you shot that RFB?

Just once so far, weather has been getting in the way, but no failures of any kind. Just mounted an EoTech and put on a nighthawk cheek rest (should be standard) so as soon as weather permits it's getting a workout.
The RFB has a 18" barrel but it's still several inches shorter than my 16" Armalite AR-10, but the Armalite is a little lighter. I'm really looking forward to the CFB (5.56 version) coming out and the shotgun version (KSG) is on my Christmas list, I'll promise to be good Santa.

Frankl03
January 18, 2011, 03:05 PM
I have owned 2 Armalite AR10s a carbine and a 20 inch. Both were good shooters! I never really liked the look of DPMS especially the slabside. I recently sold the 20 inch AR10. It was very heavy. I had the medium weight barrel and a troy MRF rail.

I just bought the new Bushmaster 308 ORC. It has a 16 inch barrel and is very light. Its made by the same people as dpms. I got it for $799 at Sportsman's Warehouse. It came with a chrome lined barrel and chrome lined bolt carrier. I have not shot it. But I assume it will be decent.

As far as I'm concerned that's a screamin deal for a 308 AR!

DPris
January 23, 2011, 03:27 AM
The Colt .308 AR looks interesting.
Denis

duncan
January 23, 2011, 03:40 AM
Sorry guys. But Kel Tec has stated that it is going to be some time before the 556 version of the RFB comes out - if ever.

Several other good carbines in the market currently.

W L Johnson
January 23, 2011, 10:39 AM
But Kel Tec has stated that it is going to be some time before the 556 version of the RFB comes out - if ever.
One must have patience when it comes to Kel-Tec.

coyotehunter223
January 23, 2011, 09:45 PM
I've got a 16" LAR-8, and I don't regret buying it. The runaround with the accessories for the gun pissed me off because RRA kept giving dates for accessories (magazines, etc) and never coming through on them. The gun is an amazing shooter, and the trigger is VERY good.

One issue I haven't seen mentioned yet is that most other AR-10 accessories will not fit the gun. Namely, many owners tried buying other AR10 sights to put on the gun during the time that RRA didn't offer them (mine is the A4, but I've got a knockoff ACOG). The sights didn't work for the gun even maxed out, and I don't remember what the issue ended up being. RRA now offers iron sights to put on the A4s, but you're very limited.

Since the guns are relatively new on the market, the number of accessories that will fit is still limited compared to the DPMS. That with the PMAGS make me wonder how my life would be different if I would've bought the DPMS. :-P

Mine with the Primary Arms 4x ACOG knockoff:
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e390/bigcoastylilwife04/Rich/DSC04045.jpg

madcratebuilder
January 24, 2011, 05:33 AM
If it means anything to you, Magpul makes polymer 20 rd. mags for the DPMS that sell for $19. RRA uses FAL metric mags that cost more for used surplus. Armalite uses propriatary mags that are only available through the manufacturer for a premium price.

Accuracy from the DPMS is reportedly very good (<1moa), and there is a good supply of brand new, top quality, USA manufactured, affordable magazines available for it. That, for me, makes the choice obvious.

Good luck!
Actually there are after market mags available for the ArmaLite and Noveske AR10. No reports on quality yet. ArmaLite GenII mags are $25 and can be found for $20 on the used market, you just have to look for them.

PMAGS, I have read a few reports of 7.62 PMAGS having problems with the lips spreading from long term storage while loaded.

If the OP wants a accurate AR 7.62 buy a Noveske.

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d37/madcratebuilder/AR10/AR10noveske01.jpg

acorn1754
January 24, 2011, 03:23 PM
I bought a LAR-8, Standard Operator but had the factory put on a adjustable stock found on the Elite Operator at no additional cost. I'll get the whole thing for just under $1500 and for me, it had all of the options that I wanted. If I went DPMS, I would have ended up spending over 2 grand just to get all of the accessories that came with the LAR-8 (being the better trigger, adjustable stock, free-floated quad rails, flip-up front sight, etc). Now I will finally get this in next week and I won't have trigger time on it till then, but I expect it to be highly accurate, especially with the barrel being cyrogenically treated chrome moly. Lastly, I bought 12 IMI 20 round mags in great condition for $15 shipped per mag. So to me, that's a high quality mag at a very affordable price. But that's the route that I setlled on myself.

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