Springfield Armory or Fulton, which M1A?


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TexasPatriot.308
January 13, 2011, 09:37 PM
I got my money ready, as yall can tell I am a .308 person, own Armalite AR10A2, Bushmaster BAR10 along with several other .308s mainly bolt action. I dont however have an M1A but am ready to place my order, I have pretty much decided on a Scout type with 18" barrel. just wondering if any yall out there have any input. I did fire the M14 almost 40 years ago in the service, so am familiar with it. I just got to have one. walnut stock is a must have.

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Cal-gun Fan
January 13, 2011, 09:43 PM
Definitely go with the Springfield.
Fulton makes nice ones, but they're just the same thing really...I don't think they offer a scout either.
Springfield has more options, and will be the same quality for less money.

TexasPatriot.308
January 13, 2011, 10:24 PM
yeah they do offer a "scout rifle", 18.50 barrel but their prices (MSRP) is way higher than what I have seen Sprinfield for. Fultons price was $2,700 on their website....I can get the Sprinfield for $1500 plus or minus.

sappnasty
January 13, 2011, 11:31 PM
Springfield Armory for sure. I have a SOCOM II, but wished I would have gotten the Scout:o. Fulton Armory is awesome, but it's like comparing a Kimber to a Les Bear 1911....they are both awesome, but function and perform the same. Oh, and be aware of making M1A postings in these forums.....As a fellow M1A owner, you'll come to find that many on this forum hate the M1A and live to post negative comments about your M1A:cuss:. I call it plain ol' jealousy :)

TexasPatriot.308
January 13, 2011, 11:34 PM
OK, and I Love Mini 14s and Mini 30s too.

txhoghunter
January 14, 2011, 12:09 AM
I won't post anything bad about it, but as sappnasty said.... I'm jealous.

I can't wait to have the cash to get one, it tops my list of guns to buy when I get the dough!

TexasPatriot.308
January 14, 2011, 12:13 AM
Txhoghunter, I think it may become one of my favorite hog guns, I can just imagine about 30 hogs under my feeder and I open up on em, could get 2 with each shot. cant wait to get mine.

DPris
January 14, 2011, 02:36 AM
I would disagree that quality is the same between the two.
Denis

fragout
January 14, 2011, 06:23 AM
Here is a list of current M14S companies out there now, and any of them will build you a 18 ish inch bbl rifle.

LRB ARMS ( They also produce an M25 receiver with built in rec. optics mount)
SMITH ENTERPRISE INC ( they should be close to releasing their new receiver soon)
762MM FIREARMS ( Forged or cast receivers.)
JAMES RIVER ARMORY ( Last I heard, their receivers were being built by 762)
FULTON ARMORY
SPRINGFIELD ARMORY INC

It really just depends on what you want, and what your preferences are in the end, as any of them could be had with a walnut stock.

Another example is if you want a chrome lined 18in bbl. Factory SAI 18in bbls are not chrome lined, while some of the others can have you sporting a Criterion 18.5in chrome lined bbl.

FWIW......... I like all the different bbl lengths for this type of rifle, but my favorite is the 18in.
http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r178/fragout2000/SANY1256.jpg

top= SAI M1A-A1 Bush rifle. The other is a custom built "Tanker" using a mix of GI/OEM/SEI parts, around a M14S receiver and Criterion chrome lined 18.5in std weight bbl. By far....it is my favorite hog dumper rifle. I have an LRB ARMS M14SA Tanker en-route.....once I get home from a current deployment.

This decision may come down to your allocated budget for either an M1A Scout, or one of the other M14S Tanker's. The more options the better if ya ask me.

11B

mshootnit
January 14, 2011, 10:15 AM
I am sure forged and USGI weapons are nice... I have not had one. I have two Springfield Armory Inc (beside one real Springfield Armory M1). One is the walnut National Match version and the other was a synthetic standard rifle that I put on a Fulton Armory walnut USGI stock and some other small USGI parts. Now I can't decide which is my favorite. National Match is slightly under 1 moa the Standard is slightly over. Standard is lighter. I have had no problems with my M1a's and looks to me like the rifles are built well. My only wish with this platform is that I wish they had stuck with the M1 length of pull. An M1 just comes up and feels better to me. I also wish the standard M1a had a slightly larger peep hole. Not a ghost ring but just something in the middle. They tell me I can drill that out, but have not tried it yet....

fragout
January 14, 2011, 10:34 AM
Thats an easy fix there mshootnit..... as the entire rear sight assembly on an M1 Garand is interchangeable with that of an M14/M1A.

A metal M1 buttplate was actually the same for the first M14 service rifles that were built, but they decided on a different assembly to assist with the rifle whilst firing full automatic.

The M1 plate can be used in place of an M14 if a few mods are utilized.

LOP can be had with some modifications, regardless of the stock.

Speaking of LOP...... I had an idea to take a synthetic USGI M14 stock, and modify it to utilize an adjustable LOP using spacers.....like that used in conjunction with the new Ruger Gunsite Carbine.

Jeremy2171
January 14, 2011, 12:59 PM
Buy the SA Inc rifle.....for one reason only.....

"Lifetime warranty"....because at some point something WILL break....just call them and they will take care of it....simple as that....from broken receiver (yes it happens) to broken safety....

Black Butte
January 14, 2011, 01:30 PM
If you want an authentic hammer-forger receiver, the way they were originally made, then check out LRB of Long Island. They make an excellent rifle that, unlike Springfield Armory, still has the bayonet lug intact.

http://www.lrbarms.com/m14rifles.html

Our receivers are the first commercially manufactured, American made, GENUINE FORGED, M14 receiver to be produced since the early 1960's. Following original Rock Island Arsenal blueprints, our receivers are machined from SAE 8620 steel bar stock which is cut into ingots (pictured below), heated and hammer forged into shape. The forgings are then CNC machined on state of the art computer controlled equipment with tolerances held to one thousandth of an inch. Receivers are heat treated to the following mil-spec: Carburized to case dept of .012 to .018. Core: Rockwell hardness C28 to C42. Surface: Rockwell hardness C52 to C55. Finally, receivers are manganese phosphated (parkerized) to mil- spec, with detail to color and finish matching the originals. The end result is a true reproduction of an original M14 receiver in a semi auto configuration which will consistantly deliver tack driving accuracy and performance, year after year, after year ! !

Support The NRA
January 15, 2011, 12:11 AM
I got my money ready, as yall can tell I am a .308 person, own Armalite AR10A2, Bushmaster BAR10 along with several other .308s mainly bolt action. I dont however have an M1A but am ready to place my order, I have pretty much decided on a Scout type with 18" barrel. just wondering if any yall out there have any input. I did fire the M14 almost 40 years ago in the service, so am familiar with it. I just got to have one. walnut stock is a must have.
I am in the same boat as you TP .308 , any1 reading this plz check my question out I asked under Military/Civilian arms Catergory, but with these 2 brands definately the SA inc even though it is Cast. FA is VERY over priced and have heard many complaints about their work. They made a batch of FORGED AR lowers, and out of ALL the brands, bushmaster,dpms,olympic,DD,LMT,Colt etc theirs was the only ones to that the mag well was so tight it would not drop the magazine!!!

If you want the most realistic M-14 you can get, go with www.762mmfirearms.com

They have all USGI parts made with a forged reciever and assembled by retired Armorer's using the TRW blueprints of the original models. And much cheaper than an LRB/Smith Build. Also www.jamesriverarmory.com is a great place.

Be prepared to spend about 2200 though :{


oh I saw you said you like the ruger mini's, have you ever owned any of the models? They are very inferior to AR's and if you were to get the Mini 30 why not just get a nice AK? just my 2 cents :)

Take care

rodrigr
January 20, 2011, 07:42 AM
I recently bought a SA M1A scout, Im overseas so I have not even seen it. Im disappointed to hear it sports a cast receiver. I guess that is why there is so little information on their website. I will build my next rifle with a forged receiver. I wont be buying from them again.

hornet41
January 20, 2011, 08:23 AM
I have a Springfield Scout, mossy oak camo and couldn't be happier!! Flawless fit and finish and a real tack driver!:neener:

ultradoc
January 20, 2011, 08:31 AM
Springfield=name recongnition

Jeremy2171
January 20, 2011, 10:04 AM
I recently bought a SA M1A scout, Im overseas so I have not even seen it. Im disappointed to hear it sports a cast receiver. I guess that is why there is so little information on their website. I will build my next rifle with a forged receiver. I wont be buying from them again.
Nothing wrong with a cast receiver....it will work just as well as a forged one.

DirtyHarry31
January 20, 2011, 10:16 AM
Here we go, cast vs. forged. If the cast receiver has a life cycle of over 300,000 rounds thru it you will NEVER meet that amount in your lifetime unless starting at 18yo till your 68yo, you would have to put 6K rounds a year for 50 years. Ammo cost @ .50+/round (2011) would be $150,000+. Now if you have that kind of money well... Come on be reasonable. Spend less by buying the Springfield with the lifetime warranty and spend the change on that 300K rounds & find out if that's true. As for the Fultons, LRBs, and 7.62 recievers that are forged does not make them any better. It's all on how & who puts the gun together. I own (2) Springfields, Marine Supermatch & a Loaded with ALL TRW parts that I want to put a 18.5" barrel for a scout. The Super for long & the scout for fun. I believe my grandkids will still be shooting these rifles long after I'm gone.

Rshooter
January 20, 2011, 12:44 PM
I own a Springfield and would recommend it above all else.

henschman
January 20, 2011, 06:44 PM
I recommend checking out www.m14tfl.com -- you will find a lot more people who are a lot more knowledgeable about M-14s than you will on here.

I mean, we have people on here claiming that Springfield Armory, Inc's QC is on par with Fulton! That is simply not true. That being said, I have a SAI rifle and it works great. However, if I had it all to do over, I would save the extra dough and buy one from 7.62mm Firearms. They seem to have the best deal on a GI-spec rifle, including a chrome-lined barrel. They make an 18" version too, if you are into the whole reduced velocity, less max effective range, less sight radius, and increased muzzle signature thing.

Did you know that Springfield's rifles are no longer available with chrome-lined barrels? They also do not come with any GI parts anymore. They have no bayonet lug, and their receivers are notorious for being out of spec and somewhat difficult to put scope mounts on. I like mine, and it shoots great, but for a true battle rifle, I would go with something a little more GI spec.

glockman19
January 20, 2011, 07:33 PM
Springfield for me

madcratebuilder
January 21, 2011, 07:37 AM
One thing to consider is SAI offers a life time warranty on the M1A, original owner or tenth owner, it's got a warranty. I think some of the other builders have tighter quality control, but that comes at a higher price and I don't know what their warranties are.

I have two M1A's, been very satisfied with both and if I add a third it well most likely be a James river rifle so I can brag on the forged receiver.:rolleyes:

Support The NRA
January 22, 2011, 03:06 PM
Still does have chrome lined barrels on the Standard and Socom versions. Just not the NM ones I believe. Dont care about a bayolug really.

I also have heard they have run dry of USGI parts, that really is the only thing that bothers me. I would like some quality in those parts and also not some commercial SA ONLY parts that are not compatible with an M-14.

I saw a few posts of USGI M-14 parts does any1 know any others?

henschman
January 23, 2011, 11:17 PM
Negative, SAI has never made a chrome lined barrel in-house. After they ran out of 22" USGI chrome lined barrels, they switched to their own chrome moly barrels. I think the last M1As with chrome lined barrels were sold in the early 2000s... by 2002 or so they had switched totally to barrels of their own manufacture.

Scouts and SOCOM's never were produced with CL barrels.

Criterion does make an 18" CL barrel if you want to retro-fit or build a rifle with one though.

Real chrome lining is pretty easy to tell, if it's clean... it is extremely shiny, like, well, chrome. The CL bore of my M1 garand is unmistakeable next to my non-CL 2009 manufactured M1A Standard. The M1A's chrome moly barrel has a semi-gloss gray finish that could be mistaken for chrome lining, but not if you have an actual chrome lined one sitting next to it. If you really want to be able to tell, pull off the flash hider and take a look at the muzzle. On a CL rifle, you will be able to see 3 different rings of color: the highly shiny inner ring, going down the barrel, which is the chrome layer; then the less shiny gray middle ring, which is the uncovered chrome moly steel that is underneath the chrome lining; and then around the outside (and covering the rest of the barrel) is the black parkerized finish.

And if you're looking for folks selling USGI M-14 parts, you're on the wrong forum; you need to head over to www.m14tfl.com and go to the BX section. You have to have 15 posts as a member to get in there, though.

fragout
May 3, 2011, 11:36 AM
Criterion does not produce ANY 18in bbls according to their website. 18.5 in /22in only.

For more info regarding them, go here.....
http://criterionbarrels.com/ProductPages/M1A.html


M14TFL is a great source of info regarding the M1A/M14.

11B

Birdmang
May 3, 2011, 11:43 AM
I agree on the forum. They have TONS of information.


Also look into a used polytech M14/s. I got mine for under $600, unfired, nib. Hopefully you will find a gun store owner with a POS china crap polytech laying around and he will sell it cheap. Turns out to be an awesome gun...but I also have a scout squad and love it, from SAI.

bergmen
May 3, 2011, 01:39 PM
I got my money ready, as yall can tell I am a .308 person, own Armalite AR10A2, Bushmaster BAR10 along with several other .308s mainly bolt action. I dont however have an M1A but am ready to place my order, I have pretty much decided on a Scout type with 18" barrel. just wondering if any yall out there have any input. I did fire the M14 almost 40 years ago in the service, so am familiar with it. I just got to have one. walnut stock is a must have.
I bought a new Springfield M1A Walnut Scout Squad about a year ago. I could not be more happy with it. I absolutely love it, would highly recommend it!

http://inlinethumb50.webshots.com/41265/2720938730053667879S600x600Q85.jpg

Trust me, you will not be sorry.

JMHO

Dan

TexasPatriot.308
May 3, 2011, 05:38 PM
I got me a M1A standard loaded with walnut stock being shipped right now from Buds gun shop $1560, free shipping and should be here thursday, cant wait to eliminate some hogs with it thursday night. next one will be either the scout squad or another Armalite in AR10 carbine in A2 configuration. as for minis, I got several, but my new tactical with a 2x7x33 Redfield is a coyote slayer deluxe. shoots 1 1/2" groups. my mini 30 got a red dot on it and shoots better than any AK I have ever had. will let yall know how my new toy shoots as soon as I can.

Andrewsky
May 3, 2011, 06:19 PM
1) Congrats, that sounds like a great purchase TexasPatriot.

2) Worrying about exactly where and how an M1A's parts were made is extremely lame. Buy an M1A, put a thousand rounds through it, then complain if you want to.

SAI has made over 225,000 M1A rifles but everybody on the gun forums who hasn't fired one knows how to build a better one.:rolleyes:

bergmen
May 3, 2011, 06:43 PM
I got me a M1A standard loaded with walnut stock being shipped right now from Buds gun shop $1560, free shipping and should be here thursday, cant wait to eliminate some hogs with it thursday night. next one will be either the scout squad or another Armalite in AR10 carbine in A2 configuration. as for minis, I got several, but my new tactical with a 2x7x33 Redfield is a coyote slayer deluxe. shoots 1 1/2" groups. my mini 30 got a red dot on it and shoots better than any AK I have ever had. will let yall know how my new toy shoots as soon as I can.
My Scout Squad had a few teething problems right out of the box. Nothing that 50 rounds or so didn't solve. It would not go completely into battery at bolt release with a fresh magazine from time to time (I attributed it to "new roughness"). Smoothed out fine and functions perfectly now.

The sights needed touching up a bit to zero at 100 yards. It fires flawlessly now and is exceptionally accurate. I have been shooting Winchester white box exclusively.

Boy are you going to love this rifle.

Dan

fragout
May 4, 2011, 04:16 PM
I got me a M1A standard loaded with walnut stock being shipped right now from Buds gun shop $1560, free shipping and should be here thursday, cant wait to eliminate some hogs with it thursday night. next one will be either the scout squad or another Armalite in AR10 carbine in A2 configuration. as for minis, I got several, but my new tactical with a 2x7x33 Redfield is a coyote slayer deluxe. shoots 1 1/2" groups. my mini 30 got a red dot on it and shoots better than any AK I have ever had. will let yall know how my new toy shoots as soon as I can.
===================================================================================================================

Congrats on your new rifle. I use mine to dump TX hogs quite often, and plan to start up again once I re-deploy.

Any pics?

Here is my LRB ARMS M14SA Tanker.....
http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r178/fragout2000/Pic%20set%202010/LRBM14SABushrifle.jpg
http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r178/fragout2000/Pic%20set%202010/LRBM14SABushrifle2.jpg

Not sure why some think it's lame to know how a rifle is put together/ parts used...etc..... however.......:confused: I always like to know as much as possible about a rifle costing 1500 bucks, but thats just me....:p

Speaking of which, when you get your rifle, there should be a small tag tied to the trigger guard (New M1A). That will be where your rifle's head space is set from the factory, and would recommend that you save it for future reference.
A few other things worth mentioning when you get your brand spankin new M1A...... ( Things I have learned over the yrs from owning/shooting several M1A rifles )

1. SAI ships the M1A rifles with some type of preservative...grease. Be sure to remove this stuff prior to shooting, and especially if you find it inside of the gas cylinder upon dissassembly and inspection. You most likely know this already, but the M1A/M14 gas system is designed to "run dry".

2. An issue I often see with new M1A owners is that they lube their rifles with oil only. I would suggest the use of a good quality rifle grease such as Tetra. I also like Plastilube as it will handle extreme cold temperatures without getting "sticky", and hot temps without getting "runny"....... if that makes sense....:)
Only use grease for certain lube points on the rifle, and no need to go heavy with it either. A "wet" look is plenty IMO.

3. Re-manufactured ammunition. I bring this up only as a FYI, and not to suggest anything other.......... so with that being said........ Read the warranty carefully before using re-loaded ammo through the rifle.

4. You seem like the type of person who might like a few extra magazines for a rifle such as this.... so..... I would stick with good quality magazines.
If I buy mags sight unseen, I only buy them from the following sources....

www.44mag.com
www.lrbarms.com

Hope this helps some.
Happy shooting.

11B

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