Reloads in a Glock


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Circuit Rider
January 14, 2011, 08:36 PM
Gents, I need some advise as I'm not familiar with Glock firearms. My Doctor has been offered a Glock 40 caliber(Glock 22?) at a decent price. I have been told it will not shoot lead and is finicky as to what reloads it will shoot. The advise I was given was to get a Jarvis or Lone Wolf barrel. Doc is just learning to shoot and I don't want a situation where he'll be discouraged and quit. Much obliged for any and all information.

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WardenWolf
January 14, 2011, 08:54 PM
You should NOT shoot reloads in a stock Glock. Their chamber is not fully supported which leads to an increased risk of case rupture, particularly if the brass has already been stressed by previous firing. This is especially true of .40 caliber Glocks, which tend to be a lot more problem-prone than other calibers because they're just an up-barreled 9mm.

ljnowell
January 14, 2011, 08:56 PM
You should NOT shoot reloads in a stock Glock. Their chamber is not fully supported which leads to an increased risk of case rupture, particularly if the brass has already been stressed by previous firing. This is especially true of .40 caliber Glocks, which tend to be a lot more problem-prone than other calibers because they're just an up-barreled 9mm.


Absolutely not true, couldnt be more false regarding using reloads. What would sharing a frame and slide with 9mm have to do with anythig? Yes the 40s have poor case support but there is nothing unsafe about reloads as long as they are done right. OP go to the reloading forum for better advice.

AK103K
January 14, 2011, 10:21 PM
I have a number of 9mm Glocks, and except for occasional factory rounds, shoot reloads pretty much exclusively, and have never had an issue. I dont use lead bullets with the 9mm, but thats mainly due to leading due to velocity.

I know the .40 Glocks have a bad rap in this respect, but I was under the impression that they addressed the unsupported chamber thing. If not, they make drop in aftermarket barrels that remedy the problem, and well as the lead issue, if thats a worry to you.

GLOOB
January 14, 2011, 10:44 PM
You can shoot any jacketed reload in any Glock, if you don't mind losing the warranty. A gun with a looser chamber is more likely to be able to chamber sloppy reloads, after all. You can even shoot lead, so long as you find the right load.

If you are the one DOING the reloading and you collect your own brass, you may want to try to avoid chambers that don't have good support. This includes early model Glocks in both .40 and .45. But RECENT Glocks have terrific chamber support. I have a Gen3 .40 and .45, and they both have very good support. I buy "Glocked" brass, run it though my dies, and when I shoot it out of MY Glocks, the brass remains perfect.

Note: chamber support and chamber tightness/looseness are not the same thing. Bad chamber support leads to bulges over the feedramp, and repeated hot loads are ill-advised. A loose chamber means the brass might not resize exactly as small as you like, but the reloads will still be fine for that gun. I see no reason to seek a tight, match chamber for reloading in a pistol, unless its a gun with expensive brass, and you want to get maximum life using high power loads.

Liberty1776
January 15, 2011, 01:05 AM
only thing I've ever fed my 17 is reloads. 50% were lead. No issues. just sayin'...

Nushif
January 15, 2011, 01:24 AM
I fed my 26 only reloads for about six months until I got bored with it. No problems at all.

No bulged cases, no exploded guns, no missing digits ... but by all means, please don't collect all that tasty brass. 8)

kelo4u2
January 15, 2011, 02:01 AM
Get a Lee sizing die and that will size the whole case. You can use this on any Glock with factory barrel.

REAPER4206969
January 15, 2011, 02:16 AM
because they're just an up-barreled 9mm.
Completely false.

SIGLBER
January 15, 2011, 02:33 AM
No lead in Glocks. The lead tends to build up in the rifling. The .40 is already a high pressure round. If the build up gets too thick BOOM! I've seen it first hand. Not pretty. I would not shoot reloads in an gun. But especially not in a Glock. I've seen several .40's of different makes blow up. Most of them were from problem reloads. Seems worst in the 180gr. rounds. Getting a good aftermarket barrel will allow for shooting lead. But unless they are your own I wouldn't shoot reloads. Have seen to many bad things happen with them.
I just got a great deal on a G22 police trade in. It is like new. Really just love the gun. Actually wanted a G17 but the deal was too good to pass up. Bought a Storm Lake 9mm barrel for it and it's been perfect. I'm not really big on the .357 SIG. But you can get a .357 barrel and if you can find one a .22 conversion kit and have a 4 caliber gun with the G22.

GLOOB
January 15, 2011, 03:37 AM
because they're just an up-barreled 9mm.
Completely false.
This isn't very far from the truth, actually. The first .40 SW Glocks were very similar to the 9mm. The extractor is slightly different, and the ejector is angled differently. The breechface is cut wider, and the barrel is bored out to .40. The actual external dimensions of the barrel are almost exactly the same. The mass of the slide is nearly identical, and the recoil springs are the same weight. But when you start out with a 9mm that can handle 100k+ rounds and which has a slide as heavy as a Glock's is, you don't really NEED to change anything.

The recent models are still practically the same, but it's because the changes they made for better durability with .40 were carried over to the 9mm versions.

They greatly increased chamber support since the first .40 and .45 versions, for starters. And they changed the locking block for better durability in the .40. The gen4's now have a much heavier recoil spring, to boot. The .45 was always robust, since it started out life as a 10mm, so the only major change was the increased chamber support.

Trigun
January 15, 2011, 04:43 AM
You can shoot reloads and why bother buy a after market barrel just because of shoot lead bullets, copper plated or jacket bullet is not that expensive. The Glock barrel on the other hand is very well made.

Edmond

The Lone Haranguer
January 15, 2011, 08:32 AM
There is nothing wrong with using good reloads in a Glock of any caliber. I would not reuse those cases too many times.

Circuit Rider
January 15, 2011, 09:31 AM
Guys, thanks for the information. Gloob, I'll be doing the reloading for Doc and won't go hot with any load just to be safe.

Sapper771
January 15, 2011, 10:08 AM
I reload for all my Glocks (26, 19 ,17G3, 17G2, 34, & 21). I only have experience with the 9mm and 45 acp versions though, no 40's. I have not had any problems shooting my reloads through my Glocks. I have some 9mm and 45acp brass that has as much as 10 loadings on them. They still have tight primer pockets and good neck tension. As long as you stay with in the boundries, you will get better case life. I dont use lead in the factory barrels. I have used moly coat bullets in the factory barrels with decent success. Jacketed and plated are good to go.

Voiding the warranty doesnt bother me.

One word of warning....... if you plan on using an aftermarket barrel, make sure that you dont use brass that has been fired through a glock barrel previously. The glock chambers have more liberal tolerances and when the brass is fired in them, it can expand to those liberal tolerances. The sizing die cant size the area around the head of the case. The 9mm is the worst for this due to its tapered case. I have not noticed it as much in my 45 acp and lone wolf barrel. Redding makes a push thru die that can fix the problem with the 40 cal and 10mm cases.

Murphster
January 15, 2011, 10:26 AM
I err on the side of caution with Glocks. With Glocks I never use lead bullets. I buy once fired brass and after I fire it in a Glock, I leave it. It's just cheap peace of mind for me. Never had a problem in thousand of rounds. (I use the brass more times if I'm firing it in a different brand of pistol.)

AK103K
January 15, 2011, 10:36 AM
I shoot and reload the same brass out of mine until it fails, which is usually a good long time. Im shooting a lot of about 2000 rounds/pieces I've been using for about two years now, and its just now starting to give me occasional cases with split necks. I shoot and reload on average around 3-400 rounds a week, so its been loaded and shot a good bit.

sharptailhunter
January 15, 2011, 12:38 PM
IMO, the only scary part about this thread is that you will be doing the reloading for someone else. By all means, that is not a slander against you. I simply think that there is too much of a liability factor there. Reloading is great fun, and if you are trying to get your friend into the sport of handguns, like you described, why not help him do his own reloads using your equipment? Maybe he'll like that part of it too.

Like others have mentioned, you can shoot lead and/or reloads in a Glock barrel. The stock barrels can lead foul faster than other barrels, but all barrels can lead foul. It can be minimized by finding the right load and being vigilent about keeping it clean. I have been shooting plated bullets in my G34 with great success. I use whatever brass I can pick up and it all shoots and reloads great.

AK103K
January 15, 2011, 01:35 PM
IMO, the only scary part about this thread is that you will be doing the reloading for someone else.
Thats a good point. I dont shoot others reloads, and I normally dont give others mine, unless they are shooting them out of my guns. Its not that I dont trust them, and I've rarely had an issue, but things do happen.

KBintheSLC
January 15, 2011, 02:48 PM
You should NOT shoot reloads in a stock Glock. Their chamber is not fully supported which leads to an increased risk of case rupture, particularly if the brass has already been stressed by previous firing. This is especially true of .40 caliber Glocks, which tend to be a lot more problem-prone than other calibers because they're just an up-barreled 9mm.

I doubt you would say this if you had any actual experience with the matter at hand. I have been reloading for Glocks in 9mm, .40, and 10mm for quite a while now, and they do just fine. I implore you not to spread the regurgitated, recycled, second-hand "knowledge" that I see all too often on the web.

PS... you can even shoot hardcast lead loads through the stock barrel in low quantities.

MAUSER88
January 15, 2011, 04:19 PM
Yawn. I have over 4000 lead reloads out of my model 23. No problems what so ever.

Ex
January 15, 2011, 08:38 PM
Yes, there is an issue with lead bullets, but properly done reloads with quality jacketed bullets present no problem.

ljnowell
January 15, 2011, 10:31 PM
Yes, there is an issue with lead bullets, but properly done reloads with quality jacketed bullets present no problem. Tell that to my g21. It has an easy couple thousand lead reloads. It only requires someone know how to properly develop a load.

Rollis R. Karvellis
January 15, 2011, 10:56 PM
You, also will find that almost all manufacturers will void there warranty over reloaded ammo. Atlest on paper.

CZ57
January 15, 2011, 11:05 PM
Check this thread it defines a classic ka-BOOM event. Pistol was a Glock 22 with reloads using a fast burning powder.http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=567184

bds
January 16, 2011, 04:14 AM
CZ57, I just posted on that thread. Can you shoot reloads out of factory Glock barrels? I have. So, why are there continuing concerns of KaBoom(KB) and reloads in Glocks?

It is true that Gen3/Gen4 have better case base support than Gen1/Gen2 barrels at the ramp area. However, Glock chambers are still quite generous and there's still an area near the ramp that doesn't fully support the case base (BTW, this area is now comparable to many other factory barrels). I think the generous chamber is still an issue as I see bulged 40S&W cases (bulge 2/3 way down the case wall) with new factory ammunition and high range to near max reloads. If the bulging and resizing of the case wall is repeated using near max/hot loads, I believe it will weaken the brass and contribute to case failure.

I have shot a lot of 40S&W reloads in my factory Gen3 Glock barrels using jacketed/plated bullets at mid to high range load data and W231/HP38. The cases usually show no bulges or very slight bulging. In recent years, I have used Lone Wolf barrels in my Glocks for added margin of safety due to their tight chambers and improved case base support at the ramp area. Also, I am now happily shooting lead bullets for reduced cost of reloading.

Here's a repost from the other thread (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=567184):

I pulled the trigger and immediately felt a sting on the inside of my right hand. I looked down and the magazine had been blown out the bottom of the gun and a piece of the magazine release fell onto the ground.
Yup, sounds like a classic Glock KB (case base fails and escaping gas blows out the magazine and mag release/internal parts also get damaged).

The load used was 4.5gr of Red Dot (max in Alliant manual is 5.1gr) behind a 170gr round nose bullet.
Alliant's website (http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/RecipeList.aspx?gtypeid=1) currently don't list Red Dot for 40S&W. It doesn't matter whether your load was mid range or near max. The case base failure could occur from weakening of brass with repeated bulging and resizing of the case or other factors.

Even though you are careful about your reloads and use mid-range load which may not bulge the case, if you pickup range brass, you could have picked up someone else's brass that's been over-stressed or reloaded enough times with bulge/resize cycles to weaken the brass.

I pick up range brass and this is the reason why I use Lone Wolf barrels in my Glocks. Case base support is better than any other factory barrels I have seen and the tight chamber minimizes the case expansion to the point that my high range 40S&W loads take hardly any effort to resize. Spent case walls are very straight.

GLOOB
January 16, 2011, 07:05 AM
I buy once fired brass and after I fire it in a Glock, I leave it.
A lot of that once-fired stuff you are buying was shot in a Glock, especially that stuff that comes from LEO ranges. :) Then some of the brass you leave on the ground might be sold to someone else as once-fired. :)

My brass looks fine after firing in a recently manufactured G27, and I'm shooting relatively stout handloads. I sometimes have to run a batch of purchased brass through a Bulge Buster BEFORE I shoot it. Afterwards, it's no longer necessary. So my Glock is essentially "un-Glocking" brass - brass which may have been originally "Glocked" by pistols other than Glock. :)

357 Terms
January 16, 2011, 07:47 AM
I've shot thousands of mid range reloads outta two different gen 3 22's. Never noticed excessive bulging of the case. I dont own a Glock now but all the brass I shoot outa my 40XDm was shot outa a Glock. I always used jacketed bullets and never had a problem.

onebigelf
January 16, 2011, 09:39 AM
I have no problem shooting my reloads out of my Glock 19. I think lead is fine at lower velocities and in lower round counts between good barrel cleaning. I'd not worry about 50-100 rounds of cast lead at standard velocity loads, but I wouldn't run 5-600 rounds at a pistol course. At some point there is probably an issue and I'm not sure where that point is. I don't really want the pistol telling me! With jacketed bullets I have no problem loading to +P and trusting it. In fact, I trust my hand-weighed and babied reloads more than I would factory ammo. NO factory is going to evidence the same care of every round that I do and the gun will handle it just fine.

John

vsteel
January 16, 2011, 05:28 PM
I have over 1000 rounds of lead reloads fed through my 17. I also have not had issues with excessive leading in the barrel. I shoot at lead velocities, shoot hard lead, and it is sized for .355. I am not sure how many remember but about 20 years ago there was a lot of press about not shooting lead down the barrel of a Glock. The problems with guns boiled down to the following.

1. Way to soft of lead/way to high of velocities with lead reloads.
2. Firing lead reloads as fast as you could to the point you had the barrel so hot it was hard to hold onto the gun causing increased leading.
3. It was recommended a long time ago that you shoot .355 lead with the glocks and not the common .357 sizing.
4. Every glock 9mm that I seen blow up with lead reloads was the barrel had EXTREME leading. As in peeling large chunks out of the barrel with a screwdriver.

If you really want to search where this came from look in old Guns and Ammo, American Rifleman, and Gun Tests from the late 80s to the early 90s.

The reason they say no reloads is because you always have the one dumbass out there how doesn't know what he is doing or says "aww it will be fine." He then does something stupid and blows up his gun and then tries to win the white trash lottery by winning a lawsuit.

KBintheSLC
January 16, 2011, 06:54 PM
So, why are there continuing concerns of KaBoom(KB) and reloads in Glocks?

Because lately, people seem to prefer blaming everyone and everything in the world for their own stupid mistakes. I have serious doubts that the KB would have happened if the reloads were done right. And any gun will KB if some knucklehead runs a double charge.

CZ57
January 16, 2011, 08:43 PM
CZ57, I just posted on that thread. Can you shoot reloads out of factory Glock barrels? I have. So, why are there continuing concerns of KaBoom(KB) and reloads in Glocks?

Chamber support has improved but is that enough? There is still a question of adequate support. The OP stated he could not have double-charged the case because a double-charge would overflow the case. I believe the problem is two-fold. Case support, or lack thereof combined with a powder that is very fast burning. The .40 S&W is a naturally fast pressure peak cartridge and I believe that fast burning powders should be avoided in loading it Combining a fast powder with a naturally fast pressure peakin cartridge is risky in my opinion. And if you pick up range brass you may pick up a case that is bulged and not notice it if you aren't very careful in inspecting it.

I am not a Glock hater, but am not a fan of their .40 S&W pistols because of the chamber support issue. Glocks aren't the only pistols that have Ka-Booms I know of a fellow that had one in a CZ-75 with a fully supported chamber. He was also using a very fast burning powder and may have picked up a bulged case/cases. I have handloaded tens of thousands of .40 S&W without incident. To be honest, none were fired in Glocks and NONE were loaded with ultra fast powders like Bullseye or Red Dot, the powder in question. Powders like V-V 3N37, Power Pistol, Vectan SP-2 and Ramshot Silhouette were used in my handloads. I shoot very little factory ammo. Ramshot Silhouette was formerly Winchester Action Pistol or WAP. I believe this is the powder that Winchester used/uses in load development for the .40 S&W. It is manufactured by Primex.

So, my advice is to stay away from very fast burning powders when developing full power .40 S&W loads. If you are loading light/medium loads there are many powders that can be used but I would tend to avoid anything faster than say W-231.

porterdog
January 16, 2011, 09:51 PM
Read between the lines, Circuit Rider. Sure seems like there can be an issue if the right elements are in place.

Regular Joe
January 17, 2011, 07:22 AM
There is no cure for stupid. I know what I'm doing, and I launch 124 gr. HP's at just bout 1,250 fps from my G-19. Stupid people will never attain this claim., but they may well become subject to it. Thank God.

Johnny Lightning
January 17, 2011, 08:44 AM
I have a G17 and now shoot all reloads. I am also new to reloading but have not had any problems w/ the loads I have made. I use Berry's plated bullets in my lee turret press and they are cheap and function perfectly if you load them properly. I would not use lead bullets in the glock because of the special barrel design which will accumulate lead and then have the possibility of a kaboom :eek:. Some people say they do shoot lead out of their glock factory barrels but then clean their glocks after every 100rnds or so...I dont think it is such a good idea...If you want to shoot lead then get an aftermarket barrel that is meant to shoot lead.

wally
January 17, 2011, 12:30 PM
Yawn. I have over 4000 lead reloads out of my model 23. No problems what so ever.

Have you done any jacketed full power loads since? That is where the issue is supposed to come up.

I don't shoot Glocks much as they don't fit me well but when I do its usually 100-200 rounds of hard cast lead followed by 5 or 10 rounds of cheap FMJ (Glock 17L or 21). Never had any troubles.

GLOOB
January 17, 2011, 03:20 PM
Have you done any jacketed full power loads since?
I somehow doubt he meant 4000 lead reloads without cleaning!
usually 100-200 rounds of hard cast lead followed by 5 or 10 rounds of cheap FMJ (Glock 17L or 21).

Bore brush? Get one, use one, don't kB your gun?

JRC45AUTO
January 17, 2011, 03:47 PM
Will one of you guys please tell me how a Glock barrel would lead-up more than a standard barrel?
Seems to me the slicker polygonal barrel would not lead as bad as a cut rifeling barrel.
I've shot many hard cast bullets thru my 9mm, 40cal & 45acp Glocks and have not noticed any leading whatsoever.
My Colt compensated race gun shows more leading than a Glock.
To be honest, I coat all my guns barrels & chambers and friction points with Kano Molyfilm dry moly lubricant. We use this a lot on Gulfstream aircraft.
Good enough for a 60 million dollar aircraft is good enough for a handgun.
Lead simply doesnt stick to this stuff.
I load just below the max loads so I don't have to worry about power factors at a match.
I feel it defeats the purpose to use whimp loads when practicing.
I usually pick a load for a gun, dial is sights and only shoot it exclusively.
For those who are buying into the Glock KB crap, think about this.
I load in Winchester cases, a 155gr Hornady XTP on top of 10.0gr of Longshot.
This is one of the best shooting rounds I have found for my G27.(1.5" @ 15yds)
I chronographed them at 1261 f/s from the baby glock G27.
If any case will fail it would be with this pocket rocket.
There are too many people out there with no experience with a Glock passing on crap that they have read.
Do you think any one that has blown up a pistol of any kind would tell that he might have had bullet setback due to a weak crimp.
If using fast burning powder, setback could blow a case easily.
Don't believe everything you read on the net about Glock KB's.

easyg
January 17, 2011, 03:51 PM
Use bare lead and reloads in your Glock at your own peril.

Personally, I don't think it's worth the risk just to save a few bucks.

AK103K
January 17, 2011, 03:59 PM
Seems to me the slicker polygonal barrel would not lead as bad as a cut rifeling barrel.
I always thought the same thing. I sometimes think its just all part of the fear frenzy that gets generated, and the internet just makes it worse.

I dont use lead in 9mm, simply because I tend to load them pretty hot, and dont want to deal with the leading, in any barrel. Same goes for any of the other calibers I load. I know lead bullets have improved a lot over the years, but I dont cast my own, and still usually only load them up to about 850-950fps max when I do load lead.

JRC45AUTO
January 17, 2011, 04:03 PM
Try the moly spray in your barrel.
I shoot lead at 900-1100 f/s and don't have the problem.

bds
January 17, 2011, 04:59 PM
Will one of you guys please tell me how a Glock barrel would lead-up more than a standard barrel?
Seems to me the slicker polygonal barrel would not lead as bad as a cut rifeling barrel.
I found this to be the case with my Glocks. However, I have seen Glocks get leading in the barrel. It all depends on the bullet type used and powder/charge.

Even though I advocate the use of Lone Wolf barrels in Glocks for tighter chamber (to minimize case bulging) and better case base support at the ramp area, I do shoot lead reloads in factory Glock barrels. When I do, I inspect the barrels at around 200 rounds or so and clean as necessary.

I think a lot of Glock KB incidents involve people hearing and believing that "Glocks never need cleaning" and either did not clean the barrel or perhaps decided to do their own endurance tests using their/other's reloads. What I have seen shooting lead reloads in Glock barrels is that there is a gradual build up of fouling from bullet lube and gas-cut lead at the chamber end. When I inspect the barrel, this fouling build up shows as dark/black smeared deposit just forward of the chamber. This is what I look for and clean as necessary.

If this deposit is allowed to build up over time/many rounds, then it will partially obstruct the bullet as the powder is ignited. If this obstruction is significant, it may increase the chamber pressure beyond maximum limits. If there is any weakness in the case, the expanding gas will blow out at that weak point (often "Glocked" bulge at the base of the case).

Anyone shooting reloads, especially lead reload, should take this into consideration and like any other barrels used for shooting, clean regularly. I shoot 200-500+ rounds per range session and clean all of my barrels afterwards.

Be safe.

bds
January 17, 2011, 05:38 PM
Here's a warning posted on Accurate Arms website (http://www.accuratepowder.com/safety/semi-automatic-handguns/) with the latest generation barrel showing:

SPECIAL WARNING CONCERNING CHAMBER DIMENSIONS OF SEMI AUTO HANDGUNS THAT DO NOT FULLY SUPPORT THE CASE.

A potentially dangerous condition can occur with certain aftermarket modifications, and also certain factory-produced semi auto pistols that have chamber configurations that do not fully support the chambered cartridge case. This modification is incorporated or done to aid in the reliable feeding of the round from the magazine. Although it might be acceptable for newly manufactured ammunition, or new unused cases, a potentially hazardous condition can be created when cases are reloaded a second time or more.

http://www.accuratepowder.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/hgsty.jpg

After firing a round in one of these handguns, a deformed case can result. We recommend inspecting each case for a bulged or “pregnant” shape from the base of the main body towards one third to half of the case body, which is a sure sign that the case is not fully supported. Although this bulged part is reformed during resizing, the case strength could be weakened. The problem occurs when this part of the weakened case again lines up with the modified part of the chamber. This may cause the case to fail, which allows the gases to be ejected into the internal cavity of the weapon.

The loading data published by Western Powders, Inc. was developed in our ballistic laboratory in strict accordance with SAAMI testing methods and equipment, and does not exceed the pressure specifications. This information is safe for use in firearms which provide complete support of the case. Failure to fully support the case with cartridges of such intensity may result in bulged cases, ruptured cases, separated case heads, or other consequences that may result in destruction/damage to the firearm and/or injury or death to the shooter and/or bystanders. This can happen with any powder irrespective of design and/or burn rate.

If you own a firearm in which the chamber does not fully support the chambered round and is producing the above mentioned symptoms, Western Powders, Inc. recommends that you either contact the firearm manufacturer to determine if the case is fully supported, or have a competent gunsmith examine the firearm and determine the amount of support provided to the case.

If your firearm does not provide complete support for the case, please take extreme care and refrain from reloading cases.


Here's my Lone Wolf 40S&W barrel as a comparison:

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=134291&stc=1&d=1295305948


Here's a close up comparison of Lone Wolf G27 barrel and Gen3 Glock 27 barrel.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=134292&stc=1&d=1295305948

wally
January 17, 2011, 05:59 PM
Bore brush? Get one, use one, don't kB your gun?

If you are getting the kind of leading that could cause a dangerous pressure increase, a bore brush doesn't really do much. I know from experience relatively recently after shooting Remington Thunderbolt in a Ruger MKII and years ago from using hard cast bullets that weren't very hard in my 16" Uzi carbine. A Lewis Lead remover was a big help.

I've followed the "a few jacketed after shooting lead" dictum given to me by an old fellow at the range (now I'm that guy :) ) and have never had any leading issues since until the issue with Remington Thunderbolts a few years ago. I shot up what remained of the Thunderbolts by mixing 50 of them in with 150 of Federal. Obviously using the hottest jacket bullets you can find would be a very poor choice here.

I don't enjoy shooting Glocks enough for it to be a problem for me, but a bore brush coming out clean does not mean there is no lead buildup remaining -- you need to visually inspect the bore with a light and take further more drastic action if necessary.

I've never been a fan of "max loads" when reloading, but especially so with the .40S&W because of the propensity of poorly supported chambers and high normal pressures, Glock is not the only one here, and based on some chamber comparison photos posted in an old thread, not the worst.

ny32182
January 17, 2011, 06:05 PM
My G34 has never seen a factory round and probably never will.

I use exclusively range pickup brass. Scary stuff. :D

I do use jacketed bullets, and clean it about once a month or so, which works out to about once every 500 rounds, roughly.

bds
January 17, 2011, 07:04 PM
Duplicate - added comparison photos on post #43.

GLOOB
January 17, 2011, 07:11 PM
but a bore brush coming out clean does not mean there is no lead buildup remaining -- you need to visually inspect the bore with a light and take further more drastic action if necessary.
I've never inspected the cleanliness of a bore brush! I just meant that a regular cleaning with a bore brush (and a lead solvent, if needed) will prevent lead fouling from building up to a dangerous level. Shooting an FMJ down a lead-fouled bore is one way to cause overpressure that's completely avoidable. If it works for you, then that's great. But if you ever change your lead handloads, you might want to inspect the bore before sending that first FMJ downrange, especially in .40 or .45.

Lead fouling will come out with the right brush. Bronze is harder than lead, so it's just a matter of finding the right brush. I heard a piece of chore boy also works.

Total sidetrack here, but the only time I had leading in a Glock was with factory loaded rounds from a major American company. I believe they were plated bullets, and the fouling only occurred in the last half inch of the barrel, not near the chamber. It certainly looked like lead. Most of it came out with regular cleaning, but the final bit didn't budge until I used an oversized bore brush push/pulled backwards! I had complete faith that the Tenifer would withstand the abuse, and the mirror finish remained intact.

frankge
January 17, 2011, 08:41 PM
With the low prices from Zero and Precision Delta - why bother with 9mm lead anymore? I load lead for 45 only now.

W.E.G.
January 17, 2011, 09:02 PM
Just checked price at Precision Delta.

34 cents per round for 9mm.
http://www.precisiondelta.com/detail.php?sku=P9MM115

You think THAT is a bargain???

I'm shooting the much-cheaper Russian stuff in my Glocks, and not bothering with reloading.

bds
January 17, 2011, 09:04 PM
With the low prices from Zero and Precision Delta - why bother with 9mm lead anymore? I load lead for 45 only now.

I think the Glock KB issue has been centered around the higher pressure loads of 40S&W, regardless of bullet types used. The KaBoom in other post (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=567184) I was referencing involved a Glock 22.

CZ57
January 17, 2011, 09:08 PM
As far as I know the Ka-boom issue is limited to Glock pistols chambered in .40 S&W. I wouldn't hesitate to fire jacketed handloads in any 9mm or .45 ACP Glock.;)

AK103K
January 17, 2011, 09:13 PM
Im not sure what your linking to there W.E.G., link just gets you to Precision Delta.

I just got an order from them last week. 2000 124 grain 9mm's FMJ's for $154. That works out to $0.08/round for the bullet (about $0.11/round loaded). Thats about the cheapest I've found for jacketed bullets, and actually cheaper than a lot of the hard cast lead being sold.

distra
January 17, 2011, 09:21 PM
I'll add my $0.02 to this thread from a first hand Glock case head separation event AKA Ka-Boom. The chamber support issue is real with a Glock stock barrel. My case head separation event was definitely not a leading issue, bullet setback issue or over charge. The gun had been cleaned the weekend before and had less than 200rds of Precision 170gr Polymer coated round nose bullets through it. I was loading with Red Dot at an average 856fps, not a hot load at all. OAL=1.134" and crimp=0.423". My mistake was not looking close enough at each case, if I could have seen the defect at all. Unfortunately, these things happen and no matter how good one thinks they are it can happen. The chamber support is an issue and should be further improved. Let's not forget these things happen with factory loads as well. I know a fellow pin shooter who ended up trading his G21 in for a Ruger SR9 due to Ka-Boom with Winchester factory ammo. He showed me the case otherwise I would not have believed him. These events are rare and should not stop people from shooting reloads through their Glock, but I would recommend being more diligent when loading them to be shot through a stock barrel. I've ordered a Lone Wolf barrel and will be checking the brass more closely. These Ka-Booms can happen with any gun, but I believe the unsupported chamber contributes to the Glock case head separation.

vsteel
January 18, 2011, 02:44 AM
The leading and the unsupported 40 cal are two separate issues.

The leading came from the G17 and G19 about 20 years ago when some people were stupid. (see my earlier post.)

The idea about why lead sticks to the barrel is from Glock talking about how the rifling is tight to better grip the bullet and be more accurate.

The 40 has to do with being unsupported at the feed ramp with the original barrel design. Which from my understanding was fixed years ago.

Honestly I am amazed that these things stick around. I guess it is true that it takes one generation for these things to go away.

distra
January 18, 2011, 09:19 AM
Honestly I am amazed that these things stick around. I guess it is true that it takes one generation for these things to go away.

Really? This event just happened over the weekend. This unsupported chamber has not totally been fixed and I know first hand the issue is still quite alive. http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=7010332

bds
January 18, 2011, 11:32 AM
Glock did respond to the loose chamber/less case base support at the ramp area of Gen1/Gen2 barrels by tightening up the chamber and increasing the case base support on Gen3/Gen4 barrels. They are now comparable to other factory barrels.

I pick up range brass and frequently compare fired brass from people shooting factory ammunition in different pistols (Glocks leave distinct rectangle primer strike imprint on the primer cup whereas other pistols leave round imprint). So why are people getting bigger case bulges out of 40S&W model Glocks than other brand pistols (Yes, other factory barrels do bulge factory new 40S&W cases, just not as much).

So I wondered, why is Glock generating bigger case bulges when the same factory ammunition is fired in different pistols?

This is my take. When Glock was first released, their claim of using hexagonal/polygonal rifling generated higher velocities compared to traditional land/groove rifled same length barrels. This has been verified more than enough times with higher chronograph velocities published when pistol comparisons were done. So, higher velocities using same factory ammunition must mean tighter Glock barrels were generating higher chamber pressures. The traditional land/groove rifling is more prone to "leaK" hot gas around the bullets. As far as I know, pressure testing fixtures various manufacturers use for their load data have traditional land/groove rifling - I do not know if any of them use polygonal rifling. If Glock rifling generate more pressure, then Glock barrels may generate more velocities than published load data using the same powder charge/length of barrel.

If this is the only variable from other factory barrels, then it may explain why KBs are more prevalent with Glock barrels and higher pressure 40S&W loads. If reloads with repeated bulged and resized brass develop weakness in the case, then even mid-high range loads may generate higher chamber pressures than other factory barrels.

So, if you choose to shoot reloads in Glocks, maybe a suggestion of not using near max or max load data may help. If you pick up range brass that may have been over stressed or reloaded several times, then you may want to lower your powder charge even more.

IMHO, YMMV

frankge
January 18, 2011, 01:50 PM
I'm talking about the bullets for reloading. I get 1000 delivered for $77 from PD. 12-15 cents a round loaded for my Glock 34

vsteel
January 18, 2011, 02:38 PM
Really? This event just happened over the weekend. This unsupported chamber has not totally been fixed and I know first hand the issue is still quite alive. http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=7010332

My bad, I should have watched a little more carefully as I pounded out the message. The taking 20 years to go away is about the 9mm leading. I don't know that much about the 40 as I don't have one and the 40 cal never really interested me.

Deanimator
January 18, 2011, 06:15 PM
It's perfectly safe to shoot jacketed reloads in a Glock.

I've shot a lot of lead bullet reloads in my Glock 22, but eventually switched to a Storm Lake conventionally rifled barrel.

With an aftermarket barrel, you should have no problems with any safe reloads.

GLOOB
January 18, 2011, 06:55 PM
Distra, I could swear I read the identical post and description of a kB a few days ago. Except in that post the OP identified the failed brass as an "FC" stamp. FC stamped .40 brass has been discontinued for over 15 years, after it was determined to be the cause of several kB's. Federal advises that it is not to be reloaded. Federal's new .40 brass is marked "Federal."

I believe they still stamp "FC" on some military .40 brass, but it is followed by a 2 digit number indicating the year. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Incidentally, I notice that "FC" luger brass is the thinnest around, by far. It weighs significantly less than any other luger brass I've come across. The walls are so thin that it resizes itself, and I can't even feel the bullet being seated/crimped. The "FC + 2 dots" brass is much thicker. I think that's the stamp indicating the brass was outsourced from a different manufacturer.

distra
January 19, 2011, 08:02 PM
Gloob, most likely coincidence, but I have notice the nickle plated brass seems more "bulged" than the regular brass. My brass might have some Federal, but no FC stamped pieces. Most of my brass is Winchester and I've stopped reloading the nickle plated, not that it caused my issue, I just want to eliminate what appears to be stressed brass.

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