Shooting and Rx glasses


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Patriotme
January 16, 2011, 04:57 AM
I've seen a few people recently write about shooting in Rx glasses. Someone mentioned that they told the doctor that they were shooters and the optometrist changed the prescription or cut the lenses differently.
Why?
Has anyone run across this and is it something that I need to worry about when changing from regular Rx glasses that I've been using for years to bifocals?
Thanks for the help.

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BigN
January 16, 2011, 06:32 AM
My Rx glasses sit kind of low on my nose and they're equipped with bifocals. It's a major pain in the butt to look through a scope with them. I have to slide them all the way up onto the top of my nose to see through the scope. If not, I get a double crosshair picture. I wasn't aware that shooters could get a special kind of glasses. Could come in handy.

Pete D.
January 16, 2011, 06:57 AM
I've seen a few people recently write about shooting in Rx glasses. Someone mentioned that they told the doctor that they were shooters and the optometrist changed the prescription or cut the lenses differently.
Why?
Has anyone run across this and is it something that I need to worry about when changing from regular Rx glasses that I've been using for years to bifocals?

I have done this. My normal wear glasses are the varilux type where the distance correction changes continually from bottom (reading) to top (distance). Looking at iron sights on a pistol requires that I hold my head at an awkward angle.
I took a set of steel framed shooting glasses to the optometrist and explained that I was a shooter yada yada yada. I had him make a lens for my dominant eye (right) that allows clear focus on the front sight of a firearm held at arms length.
The other lens was left as a plano so that I could have distance vision without changing glasses (this is called "monovision" - one eye doing one thing and the other something else - and not everyone is comfortable with it. I did it for years wearing one contact lens for reading and a clear eye for distance so I was used to it).
I believe that one can do the same kind of thing with cheap drugstore reading glasses if the correct diopter is chosen. Don't know how well they'd work as shooting glasses though.
Pete

MarkDozier
January 16, 2011, 07:43 AM
I am n the process of this issue currently. I hope to have a good resolution in a few weeks. When I do I will post the details in a brief.

wrench
January 16, 2011, 01:28 PM
I've worn prescription glasses since I was a kid, nearsighted. Now age has caught up with me, and I need bifocals on top of that.:rolleyes:
Like the other poster, my everyday lenses are varilux, and don't work well for shooting.
I had a pair made with my normal distance prescription, and normal bifocals.
Then I added to that, a half strength bifocal cut into the top of the right (dominant) lens. That focuses my right eye on my front sight.
I have to say I like the way it works.

Smokey Joe
January 16, 2011, 03:52 PM
I've gone both ways. Had a special prescription pair of glasses ground for league pistol shooting, cost a pretty penny, and when it was done & paid for it didn't work that well for me.

Went to a Wal-Mart, tried on the various--and CHEAP--reading glasses they sell until I found a pair that was nicely focussed on my arms'-length fist plus a little bit, bought them, and have used them successfully. (At least, the glasses are successful. My pistol shooting is, um, OK.)

My current optometrist does shooting glasses as a regular part of their business. If I start having trouble w/the Wal-Mart glasses, mebbe I'll try a special pair once more. Mebbe not--they're pricey.

menacingsquirrel
January 17, 2011, 11:15 AM
I also have bifocals Rx glasses. I have a pair of Rx wrap-around safety glasses that I use for shooting. I just had the bifocal removed and it seems to work well with me.

I wouldn't use regular glasses for shooting. They aren't up to the task of safety glasses if something happened. Just my $0.02.

gregj
January 18, 2011, 07:46 PM
I did this a few years ago, and it's one of the best things I could have done to help my shooting. I wear progressive bi-focals, and tilting my head back to get the front sight in focus was a PITA, and was impossible during IDPA matchs. So I had my eye doc make me a pair of shooting glasses. My right eye (dominate eye) is single Rx with focus about 27" in front of me, which is about where the front sight normally would be, and the left eye is single RX for distance. Takes some getting used to when walking around, but once you start shooting, all is good!!

Sauer Grapes
January 18, 2011, 08:18 PM
I am using cheapo reading glasses. 125 or 150 depending on what my peepers are doing that day.

Sheepdog1968
January 18, 2011, 10:19 PM
I've worn perscription glasses for 20+ years. Not quite at the point for bifocals. I've been told/advised that when I reach the point that I need bifocals I need to have my shoot safety glasses made so that the bifocals are "upside down" relative to how they are normally done.

rfwobbly
January 18, 2011, 10:59 PM
So I had my eye doc make me a pair of shooting glasses. My right eye (dominate eye) is single Rx with focus about 27" in front of me, which is about where the front sight normally would be, and the left eye is single RX for distance. Takes some getting used to when walking around, but once you start shooting, all is good!!

I wear the same thing. Got special lens set put in the largest safety glasses frames. Deducted them on my taxes too. Required for work you know.

mbruce
January 19, 2011, 01:02 AM
http://www.sportrx.com has the best prices and best service. I have purchased many prescription glasses for other sports from them and they always take care of me. Get a script then fax or email it to them and they'll do the rest. Only added info needed will be your PD (Pupil Distance).

their customer service has instant chat which is cool these days.

-eaux-
January 19, 2011, 01:17 AM
I'm astigmatic in both eyes, fortunately(?) more so in my weak eye. When I close my weak eye to aquire a sight picture my depth perception goes away completely. This newfound inability to hit a squirrel in the head with a .22 in my mid-20's was the reason I went to the eye doctor. My prescription has only changed by a fraction over the years, but it sure is nice to be able to take headshots on squirrels with iron sights. The only drawback is having to drop a few hundred bucks every year or two for a fresh set of spectacles. (scrip doesn't change, but I'm rough on 'em)

M2 Carbine
January 19, 2011, 01:46 AM
Has anyone run across this and is it something that I need to worry about when changing from regular Rx glasses that I've been using for years to bifocals?
Thanks for the help.
To give you an idea of the state of my eyes, I am 73.

I wear tri-focals and have for a number of years.
The top lens is a normal lens for distance.

The center lens, the important lens for shooters, is focused at about 36 inches. This I call my shooting or computer lens. Actually I started using this center lens years ago because I flew helicopters for a living and needed this center lens to see the instruments. It made the front seat passenger nervous if I asked him, "What does that gage read now". :D
So the center lens is focused at about pistol front sight distance and computer screen, instrument panel distance.

The bottom lens is a normal close up reading lens.


So when I'm shooting I use the center lens to see a sharp front sight. This makes the rear sight slightly blurred and the target more blurred.
Does that sound familiar? It should, that the same thing that's going on with strong eyes.


When you first start using bi/tri-focals it takes a little getting use to, but after a little bit it becomes normal.

Do properly focused tri-focals work OK for shooting? Judge for yourself. The black target at 52 yards is my 2-3 inch barrel S&W J Frame target, and I seldom miss.
http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x464/Bell-helicopter-407/52yards38Smith.jpg

Or how about close up shooting with tri-focals?
http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x464/Bell-helicopter-407/KimberUltraCarry10yds7shts1hole.jpg

JohnBiltz
January 19, 2011, 01:55 AM
I have hopes for these guys. Supposed to hit the marker in March.
http://www.pixeloptics.com/empower/

M2 Carbine
January 19, 2011, 02:04 AM
My Rx glasses sit kind of low on my nose and they're equipped with bifocals. It's a major pain in the butt to look through a scope with them. I have to slide them all the way up onto the top of my nose to see through the scope
Because my (center) shooting lens is mostly too low to see the rifle sights through the lens I had a pair of glasses made with just the center prescription in the whole lens. So no matter how I have to look through the glasses I'm looking through my shooting lens. Works fine. Nice sharp front sight.

The only problem is the lens is focused at about 36 inches, so everything is a little blurred. So I have to swap back to my tri-focals when I'm done shooting.

Cookie45
January 19, 2011, 04:00 AM
I wear tri-focals normally. Mostly pistol shoot, so last year asked my doctor to make me a pair of glasses just for shooting them. They are bi-focal with the bottom part set for the sights at my normal shooting stance and the top for distance [the target]. He also had the sights portion ground higher than normal so I don't have to tilt my head to see the sights. A slight movement of the head down and the targets are sharp and clear. It has helped a tremendously!!

M2 Carbine
January 19, 2011, 11:14 AM
Excellent idea Cookie. I believe I'll do that also.

As I said, when rifle iron sight shooting, I have to keep swapping glasses between my shooting lens and my regular tri-focals. I could probably go the whole shooting session wearing the two lens glasses.

I'll have to take note of where I'm looking through the (shooting lens) glasses at the rifle sights and have the distance lens come down only that far.

Yes, a very good idea.:)

brickeyee
January 19, 2011, 12:34 PM
I've seen a few people recently write about shooting in Rx glasses. Someone mentioned that they told the doctor that they were shooters and the optometrist changed the prescription or cut the lenses differently.
Why?

It really helps if you can actually see the front sight (at least).

M2 Carbine
January 19, 2011, 01:48 PM
It really helps if you can actually see the front sight (at least).
When I'm updating my eyeglass prescription I hold my hand out like I'm shooting. The Optometrist measures the distance from my eye to my hand and adds several inches more to the front sight. He then prescribes the (center) lens that allows my eyes to focus at that distance.

So when I'm looking through that center lens it's about like shooting with good uncorrected vision.

But bi/tri focals do take getting use to so you automatically look through the correct lens without thinking.
Whether I'm fast point shooting while looking through the top (distant) lens or fast aimed shooting looking through the center lens at the front sight, I give it no thought. I just do it.

Patriotme
January 20, 2011, 11:05 AM
It really helps if you can actually see the front sight (at least).
Thanks. This really helped. This was a lot better than the comments about placement of the bifocal or trifocal lenses and focal points.

rodregier
January 20, 2011, 12:42 PM
If you're trialing off-the-rack reading glasses take a sample of small print text along for arm-length testing. If you figure out the correction that works for you you can order mechanics glasses from safety product vendors with the same correction. Mechanics glasses have side shields and impact rating - a good feature for the range.

unterlegend
January 20, 2011, 04:37 PM
In boot camp at the range they had us put Mole-Skin or a boot band around the bridge of our glasses, they said since it sits farther away it helps you focus on the front sight post better. Although I strongly recommend ballistic rated eye protection (I've had a few close calls), I have some Oakley Minute 2.0s in my perscription that work very well.

SwampWolf
January 20, 2011, 04:41 PM
Anybody heard of or know about the stick on, peel off "decals" which come in a set with different optic ranges? They supposedly allow you to apply the strength/range of correction you need for specific applications (for instance, a Bullseye shooter could select a corrective "lens" that would permit him to see his front sight clearly at arm's length) by sticking it on your shooting glasses and peeling it off when you're through shooting. I've heard that a set is relatively inexpensive and a particular decal can be used over and over again.

SwampWolf
January 20, 2011, 04:47 PM
I am using cheapo reading glasses.

But, as menacingsquirrel opined, aren't you compromising the very reason all shooters should wear safety glasses when shooting-to help save your vision in the event of a mishap ?

Pete D.
January 21, 2011, 08:06 AM
Anybody heard of or know about the stick on, peel off "decals" which come in a set with different optic ranges?
Yep. I have a set. They work. Used them before I got the "improved" version that I mentioned earlier.
Pete

M2 Carbine
January 21, 2011, 11:47 AM
Keep in mind that if you ever had to use your gun for protection, you will be wearing your every day eye wear, not whatever you might use just for shooting at the range.

So, practice enough using your normal glasses.

Also practice some without your vision correction. Actually you might be surprised how well you do when those sights are so blurred you can't hardly see them.:)

SwampWolf
January 21, 2011, 02:34 PM
Anybody heard of or know about the stick on, peel off "decals" which come in a set with different optic ranges?

Yep. I have a set. They work.

So where do you get these things at? Thanks.

gym
January 21, 2011, 03:50 PM
As M2 said unless it's a permanent fix, they won't likely be available if you need to pull your pistol in self defense. The contact lens I have heard from several folks works well, either just 1, or 1 for close up, and one for distance if needed. You wear them all the time. The problem with specialized equiptment is you must have it with you. Contacts on the other hand you put in either once a day or once a week and that's the end of it. And they do have them for astigmatism now.

ExtremeGunCare
January 21, 2011, 04:50 PM
Hello All,

I have been a certified ABO Optician and physically Manufactured glasses for numerous years. With in the past two months, I step out of the field. I worked for two of the top 15 Optical Companies in the nation and took pride in being one of their top Opticians dealing in Shooter RX.

I have contemplated in creating my own lab to just service the Shooter Industry. I am a shooter, and until 2008 when I had Lasik, I wore glasses since I was 5. I was OD -2.00 -1.75 axis 180, OS -1.75 -1.50 axis 70.

I was the go to person in my company in dealing with Shooters. Pending on your RX and what base cure you had been accustom to would dictate the kind of wrap/base curve you could go into for shooting glasses. Also pending your RX would dictate the kind of base material one should use. As far as tint, that is strictly a personal preference.

A very good rule of thumb is: If you have the means, always choose your thinner option in plastics. There are High Index Plastic Lenses, typically a 1.56, 1.60, 1.66, 1.67, 1.74. Single Vision should always go for the 1.66 because it is the most durable out of all the high indexes. A high end Progressive lens, say Variloux series, go for the 1.74 option. Your Line Bifocal, most of the time, comes in the 1.60.

I am always a fan of Polycarbonate because of the impact resistant capabilities it has. I say that because most people tend to be very hard on their shooting glasses. But the draw back with Polycarb is there could be a slight aberration pending script, or if you're a poly non-adapt and poly do not take well to tints. There is Trivex, but not worth the weight issues it can bring.

What ever you decide on, please do not choose your basic plastic lens. If you are going to buy shooting glasses, bit the bullet and go with a High Index Lens!

Now if you are a Progressive wearer, you know who you are. Do not go with one of the more economical lenses because the technology in that lens make-up takes away your peripheral. Try a lens like Accolade, Kodak Unique or Varilux Physio 360. Progressive Lenses needs to be measured the same as if they were your daily wears.

I might not suggest using a Progressive Lens for shooting, where a Line Bifocal may meet your needs. There are a few options in Line Bifocal. They have 22 round, 25 Straight Top, 28 Straight Top, 35 Straight Top, Trifocal 7x25 or 8x35 (Please Note Trifocal should be treated like Progressive).

Have the Optician measure right below your lower eyelash. Then take another 3 mm below that. Keep in mind that you should have at least 10mm of vertical space for your reading area. If you do not at least get 10mm of vertical reading, then pick a bigger lens/frame with a "B" Measurement. You will tilt your head back a little bit for reading, but it is a catch 22. You either have the Line Bifocal in your normal set and it could be a distraction or lower it to keep it mostly out of your peripheral.

The Best Option, in my opinion is just do Single Vision. SV comes in basic plastic, polycarbonate, aspheric polycarbonate (thiner option than regular poly), high index 1.56, 1.66, 1.74. It isn't like you are reading a book while you are out there shooting. You already know your gun, or you at least should. You are not taking score while you shoot. Less distraction with Single Vision.

Single Vision is a bit more diverse, especially with your larger lens shapes. SV will always be cheaper then any multi-focal. I would rather see a person choose a SV 1.74 than a Line Bifocal Basic Plastic Len.

Please contact me at ExtremeGunCare if you have any questions. I will give you my honest opinion in regards to your glass needs. We can talk about various options in regards to frames, lens options to meet your needs.

Good Shooting,

Jason Lumetta
ExtremeGunCare

PS. I am not here to sell you anything, but you need a good optician to ask numerous questions in like regards to your stance, kind of shoot, other needs you may have for the glasses, etc.

gym
January 21, 2011, 08:01 PM
Thanks for that very usefull info , "Extreme", I am in the market for a change in the way I vision area, and your post has some good info on it. I was going to go with the lasix also, but was told by a couple folks that it didn't turn out all that well for them. I spend 8 hours a day on the computer so all of my glasses are set for that distance, a 2 1/2 feet away instead of closer for reading. My distance is fine, I have a slight prescription for it, and seperate distance glasses, but never use them. I am going to try thr contacts again, a few years ago they were still having trouble getting them right with the astigmatism. I had tried twice and given up, also they were very expensive, like over $1000.00 a year. I still would have done it if they worked, but my glasses were clearer both for reading and distance. It seems if they make them clear for close up you loose the distance clarity, and vice versa. If I tuned them in for the computer, when I looked away, it was no good. Perhaps they are better now.

brotus2
January 21, 2011, 09:08 PM
bump to save

climbnjump
January 21, 2011, 09:44 PM
So where do you get these things at? Thanks.

Here is one source, there are probably others:

http://optx2020.com/p-38-hydrotac-stick-on-bifocal-2-pair-offer.aspx

They are easy to trim to size. I trim mine to fit in the upper left corner of the right lens of my shooting glasses. This allows me to shoot with my head tilted in a more "normal" angle than trying to find the "sweet spot" in my progressive trifocals. (My shooting glasses are wrap around style that fit over my regular glasses.)

oldfool
January 21, 2011, 11:55 PM
been wearing progressive lenses for >20 years now, progressively thicker

don't know what will work for you, but what M2 Carbine said works for me
for some of us, it's maybe just getting over ourselves (and keeping prescriptions updated every other year) and practicing with what is in front of our retinas every day,
vs. looking for tech fixes or pills
reasonably "up close and personal" doesn't really depend on 20/20 the way it no doubt does for world class comp shooters, but COM at 10-15 yards ain't all that small, specs on or off (fuzzy will do with a handgun you shoot enough), and setting a 20X scope to your own focus and consistent head position isn't as tough as some suppose, if you don't out think yourself

or maybe not.. nobody sees thru your eyes except you
foolish to suppose otherwise

SwampWolf
January 22, 2011, 02:03 AM
Thanks climbnjump. I'll check them out.

bhk
January 22, 2011, 11:23 AM
I use progressives and they work just fine for handguns, less so for rifles. With handguns, I just tilt my head a little until the front sight comes into perfect focus. I have been doing this for so long that it is now automatic for me. Most of my long guns have scopes and focusing the scope for my long distance vision is no big deal. My scopes my look blurry to you, but they are perfect for me.

Long guns with a traditional notch year sight are a problem. Adding a rear peep really helps. Not as good as a scope, but better.

doubleh
January 22, 2011, 04:30 PM
I'm on my second set of progressive lens. I love 'em. Don't get me wrong. No glasses can compare with good eyesight but with age comes farsightedness. I didn't like lined bifocals and absolutely hated trifocals so I went to progressive lenses. In my case there is no comparison to lined lens and I got the ability to use iron sights back. Not everyone can wear progressives. My wife can't.

waidmann
January 22, 2011, 11:27 PM
I consulted a shooter/opthamologist. The answer for me was "cockpit trifocals" a very exaggerated center lenses with the focus more-or-less at arms length. A style apparently favored by professional pilots. I have worn this style for three years, front sight in good focus, acceptable fuzz front and rear.

I recommend any over fifties check it out.

Stever
January 23, 2011, 09:35 AM
Anybody heard of or know about the stick on, peel off "decals" which come in a set with different optic ranges? They supposedly allow you to apply the strength/range of correction you need for specific applications (for instance, a Bullseye shooter could select a corrective "lens" that would permit him to see his front sight clearly at arm's length) by sticking it on your shooting glasses and peeling it off when you're through shooting. I've heard that a set is relatively inexpensive and a particular decal can be used over and over again.
The stick on lenses are Fresnel lenses and usually the optics aren't what people want let alone what shooters want.

M2 Carbine
January 23, 2011, 11:22 AM
I consulted a shooter/opthamologist. The answer for me was "cockpit trifocals" a very exaggerated center lenses with the focus more-or-less at arms length. A style apparently favored by professional pilots. I have worn this style for three years, front sight in good focus, acceptable fuzz front and rear.

I recommend any over fifties check it out.
Yes, I've had the center lens for some years not. I called it my instrument panel or shooting lens.


Funny story.
Before I needed to wear glasses full time I carried a pair of cheap "granny" "reading glasses" while flying. I didn't need them yet to see the instruments but did need them for reading close up.
One morning, without knowing it, I dropped my glasses when getting in the helicopter.

When I got in that evening I asked the Lead Pilot if anyone had found a pair of glasses on the ramp. I said I missed having them today.
The Lead Pilot was a serious type of guy and said, wide eyed, "You been flying all day without your glasses?:eek:

I said, "No problem. When I needed to, I'd just ask the passengers, "What does that instrument read now, or "If that needle gets close to the Red line you let me know". :D

evlgreg
February 1, 2011, 07:36 PM
I will throw in my $0.02

We have been making polycarbonite custom high curve lenses for athletes and shooters for over a decade. Back before the industry said it could be done our Owner, Bret, decided he needed to figure out the solution. Our formulas are proprietary and our machines are custom build by us, for us.
We make ANSI z87.1+ high velocity impact resistant lenses (not inserts) that fit directly into the best shooting frames on the market.

For example, our lenses for the Rudy Project Rydon Z87.1 frame replace the ImpactX factory non prescription lenses and are virtually indistinguishable from an off the shelf pair of sunglasses. The difference is we hand sculpt the lens and finish it to any style you like, and it's been independently certified ANSI z87.1+ in the Rx format. We can do heavy prescription in high curved frames as well WITHOUT using inserts.

A review from the industry magazine 20/20 in 2005 well after we had perfected the high curve lens technique. http://www.2020mag.com/ViewContent/tabid/136/content_id/240/Default.aspx
and a review from the cycling industry where eye protection is also a must. http://pezcyclingnews.com/?pg=fullstory&id=2963 - this guy REALLY loved our product.

Bret and I are both shooters and recently returned from the SHOT show in Las Vegas. We were again looking at the best possible options for shooting glasses. Does your Optician go to the SHOT show every year to look at optical stuff? We do.

We can make ANYTHING that has been mentioned in this thread. We are a true custom shop and make our own lenses in-house. If you want in inverted bifocal with an adjusted reading Rx, we call that our "almost" lens and it's included in our shooting glasses. (check the pricing page)

We stock Rudy Project, WileyX, Smith Optics Elite Division, Numa Sport Optics, and 5.11 tactical among others.

We are running a web special right now on the MIL-PRF (ballistic rated) WileyX Romer II with our Rx ANSI z87.1+ lenses. Buy the Romer II as single vision prescription sunglasses, and get a free set of Rx interchangeable clear lenses. $274 http://www.tacticalrx.com/page23.php



Feel free to IM or email me with any questions.

Greg
greg at tacticalRx dot com

www.tacticalrx.com

http://www.tacticalrx.com/attachments/Image/tacticalRx/sportsopback.jpg


Is this your sight picture?
http://www.tacticalrx.com/attachments/Image/tacticalRx/blurryfrontsight-s.JPG We can change it to this.
http://www.tacticalrx.com/attachments/Image/tacticalRx/clearfrontsight-s.JPG

www.tacticalrx.com

Pete D.
February 2, 2011, 01:17 PM
Here is one source, there are probably others:

http://optx2020.com/p-38-hydrotac-st...air-offer.aspx

They are easy to trim to size. I trim mine to fit in the upper left corner of the right lens of my shooting glasses. This allows me to shoot with my head tilted in a more "normal" angle than trying to find the "sweet spot" in my progressive trifocals. (My shooting glasses are wrap around style that fit over my regular glasses.)

Yep....those are the ones that I referred to earlier. Sorry I wasn't able to supply the link but I figured some one else would be on the ball with it.
Pete

Melix
February 3, 2011, 03:02 PM
Better late than never. I had two pair of Rx shooters made. One has no bifocal & is used for skeet/trap only. The second pair was made with the (lined) bifocal moved up on the lenses & is used for pistol shooting so I can see the sights better than I see the target. The optometrist says he makes them this way for plumbers, electricians and others who do a lot of work over their heads. Keeps my head down and comfortable & has improved my scores at the range.

84B20
February 3, 2011, 07:03 PM
I recently ordered these from Opticsplanet.com. I have been wearing progressive lenses since they were offered and could not do without them. I tried bifocals once and they nearly drove me crazy. I paid about $60 for the ESS ICE 2X / ESS ICE 2X NARO Interchangeable Eyeshield Safety Glasses Kit (http://www.opticsplanet.net/ess-ice-sunglasses-2x.html) and about $160 for the prescription lens insert (http://www.opticsplanet.net/ess-ice-and-profile-rx-insert-lab.html). The site indicates about $90 but since mine were progressive they were more expensive. I priced them at a local Sams Club as well as a couple of local optometrist and they were about $200 more.

The trick is to first order the insert (which comes with a plastic dummy lens) and the kit. Then take the insert with the eye shield to an optometrist to measure your Pupil Distance and have them mark the plastic dummy. Then send the insert to Opticsplanet to make the lenses. By the way if you use coupon code bx5sm9s you get a 5% discount which will make up for some of the extra shipping charge when you send the insert back.

evlgreg
February 12, 2011, 02:22 PM
We have made many sets of the inverted bifocals for plumbers, mechanics, and shooters.

www.tacticalrx.com

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