CZ 527 .223 Rifles - Rifling Twist Question


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DougB
December 30, 2003, 04:38 AM
A friend of mine is considering purchasing a CZ 527 bolt-action rifle in .223. He likes the Lux, but would also consider the American, Varmint, or one of the other variations. He was ready to buy, but learned that the Lux has a 1 in 12" rifling twist, which is pretty slow to stabalize heavier .223 bullets (like the 62 grain and up). The heavier bullets seem to be preferred for longer ranges with this caliber. 1 in 9" seems to be a better general purpose twist, and even faster might be better for heavier bullets. He wants to be able to shoot a variety of bullet weights at a variety of ranges. He understands that this may require some compromises, but wants the best accuracy he can get. It seems odd that CZ uses such a slow twist - or people who shoot .223s from bolt rifles prefer lighter bullets? We've heard that CZ is going to a faster twist on some models.

Does anyone know which, if any, CZs have the faster twist? (This info doesn't seem to be on their web site.) Is there an easy way to tell? Are we understanding this issue correctly? Any other comments (good or bad) regarding the CZ 527s? My friend doesn't have a working computer, so I told him I'd ask the question for him and pass on the responses. Thanks in advance for your help.

Doug

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tbige
December 30, 2003, 06:10 AM
CZ makes great stuff (love my 75B and 452 ,22), but the slow twist in its .223 is an inexplicable and, to me at least, unacceptable choice.

A much nicer rifle, with better reputation for out-of-box accuracy, is Tikka, but maddenly it too has slow 1 in 12 twist. Ditto the very fine Howa. Must be a European thing.

If best out-of-box accuracy at lowest price is prime concern, nothing delivers as consistently as Savage, with 1 in 9 twist. I have one that, with a $25 trigger job, is a consistent l/4 inch shooter (with cheap white box 50-grainers).

tbige
December 30, 2003, 06:28 AM
P.S. While I don't like fact CZ doesn't disclose twist rates on its web site, I'd give them a call in Kansas City (1-800-955-4486). They're good folks to talk with.

Still think it would be a grave error to go with CZ without handling a Tikka first.

And finally, while I have an intellectual quarrel with slower twist in .223, if your friend is just going to punch paper -- as I do -- it's not really an issue because he'll be using lighter bullets. Larger varmints, such as a coyote, would be a different story. And as for better wind-bucking ability of heavier bullets, I've never found shooting in windy conditions any fun and just don't do it.

BTM
December 30, 2003, 06:52 AM
The CZ varmint in the HS Presicion stock is advertised with a 1 in 9" twist barrel. It would be a little heavier for a walking varmint rifle, but looks like a good platform for a .223 rifle (micro action).

ROAshooter
December 30, 2003, 07:06 AM
Just a comment........I do not know what twist rate my CZ 527..223..has, but I can tell you it is not a concern. I have a weakness for Mannlicher style of carbines...just love the looks...handling. Twenty some odd years ago, bought a Ruger RSI (Mannlicher style) in 308 just for a light handy rifle. In time had a few other Rugers in the same style...till two years ago.....when I saw a CZ 527FS..for the first time. It happened to be in .223..and after a couple of days thinking about it...I bought it.
The dealer had made me a deal on a Milllet scope to close the sale.....which I will confess...had nothing to do with a need for a .223 in a bolt action.....just another case of desire for the look......you know..style.
Words fail me...when I try to express my satifaction with this little carbine. Twist rate..not a clue....accuracy??..beyond belief!!!!
It is a well known fact...short barrels..combined with full length stocks...do not add to the accuracy of a rifle.....except the Cz seemed to not know the facts. I have repeatedly shot three rounds into groups you can cover with a dime...at one hundred yards!! Using Winchester 55gr cheap ammo!!
My handloads will disappear into one ragged hole......which will start a friendly arguement at the range that I am not hitting paper...till my friends shoot the same groups with my CZ.
Cz has made a believer out of me.....oh and to add.......the single set trigger has spoiled me.
Six months ago...same gun dealer saw me coming in the door.....waved me over......CZ452FS....22.......unbelievable!!!!! CZs ?????? will be selling my Rugers to buy more.
Only other rifle that comes close, is my Winchester-heavy barreled--glass bedded--tuned trigger--M70...308!!

Kestrel
December 30, 2003, 10:20 AM
ROAShooter,

Thanks for the good report on your CZs. I've toyed with getting a 527, myself. I have a question for you - over on the accurate reloading forums, I've read several reports of people with 527s having trouble with feeding from the magazine. Something about the feed lips of the magazine, I think. Also, is the mag a single stack?

Have you had any trouble with ammo feeding?

Also, what would you hunt with .223?

Thanks,
Steve

ROAshooter
December 30, 2003, 11:23 AM
Steve
The CZ uses a single stack mag. The trouble I have read,,, and experinced as well....when new... the mag feed lips are very sharp edged.
On the CZ forum board, others have commented on this, and most, myself included, would wrap a dowel with emorycloth, and smooth out the inside edges a bit. Made all the difference in the world! Now my CZ feeds exceptionaly smooth!!!

Cableman
December 30, 2003, 01:20 PM
I bought a CZ 527 Carbine a couple months ago. It is a sweet little 223, very accurate and well made. I like the fact that the CZ's come with a set trigger and detachable mags. There really isn't anything like them being made here in the US. I called CZ USA and they told me the twist rate was 1X12 in the Carbine.

Coltdriver
December 30, 2003, 02:01 PM
I have a couple of .223's

I always thought that the AR Type (bushmaster) had a faster twist because they use such short barrels. Just a musing on my part there may well be nothing to it.

The original barrel twist for the .223 was 1/12

A 1/12 twist is perfectly adequate for up to a 55 grain bullet out of a .223. It works just fine for all of the lighter varmint type bullets.

Higher grain bullets in the .223 are a result of target shooters, mostly using AR rifles!

If you want to shoot the higher grain bullets a faster twist is going to be necessary. But, since the cartidge will only get you out to about 260 yards with a 1.5 inch over and 1.5 inch under poi with a 55 grain bullet, what are you going to accomplish with a bigger bullet? Unless you are target shooting.

Kestrel
December 30, 2003, 11:04 PM
ROAShooter,

Thanks for the info. By the way, does the safety work "forward-to-fire, back-to-safe", like on the 550s? (It's not backwards, is it?)

Thanks again,
Steve

JohnBT
December 31, 2003, 08:37 AM
I don't know if I'd believe the chart in the 2003 CZ catalog without some confirmation from somebody. It lists the .22 WMR as 1:9.75" and mine is 1:16". FWIW.

JT

ROAshooter
December 31, 2003, 11:56 AM
Steve
On both my CZs..527-452....the safeties are forward..to safe....back to fire..

RayVet
January 2, 2004, 12:24 AM
I've had my 527 HS Kevelar Varmint for a month now.
The Vamint comes with a 1:9 twist. Other .223 527's are 1:12.
I love mine. It gives sub MOA (.75 in) groups with several weights of match ammo (52, 60 and 68 gr.)

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