I'm starting a guns of WWII collection, what should I get?


PDA






shotcalla
December 30, 2003, 10:34 AM
For 2004 I am starting a "Main Battle Rifles of WWII Collection" I hope to acquire the main battle rifle for all the major allied/axis powers. Give me a hand in deciding what I need. Heres what I have decided I need so far.

US - Garand
England - lee enfield 303
Germany - k98
Japan - type 99

Help me out with what I am missing from some of the other countries.

If you enjoyed reading about "I'm starting a guns of WWII collection, what should I get?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
foghornl
December 30, 2003, 10:59 AM
Don't forget to add a Mosin-Nagant variant or several. Those have been around since WWI time frame, but they were still heavily used in WWII. The Italian Carcano is also a WWI & II, unless I am grossly mistaken.

And the US 'War Baby', the M-1 Carbine.

I don't know if they are available here in the US, but if you are looking to include the semi-auto's of other countries, add the German Gewehr 43, Russian Tokarev 1940.

I am sure there are many more, but that is all that come to mind right now.

Tropical Z
December 30, 2003, 11:04 AM
For the Mosin,id get a 91/30 and keep the bayonet attached.

Z_Infidel
December 30, 2003, 12:11 PM
The Springfield '03 was still important in WWII.

RustyHammer
December 30, 2003, 01:05 PM
M1 Garand !

DMK
December 30, 2003, 01:44 PM
The Springfield '03 was still important in WWII. I agree with Z_infidel. The '03 Springfield doesn't get the recognition it deserves. It was the Marine's main battle rifle thoughout most of the war in the Pacific.

The Russins used the 91/30 rifle and the 1938 carbine for most of the war. The 1944 carbine is interesting with it's folding bayonette, but it came late.

The Brits had an interesting combination of Enfields: the No. 1 MkIII (these were used widely by New Zealand troops IIRC)and the No.4 MK1 rifles as well as the No. 5 carbine for use in the jungles of the Pacific theatre.

DonP
December 30, 2003, 02:01 PM
Cover all the major participants weapons:

US
Garand
M-1 Carbine

UK
Enfield IV Mk II
Enfield V, Jungle Carbine

Soviet Union
Mosin-Nagant 91-30

Germany
K-98

Italy
Carcano Carbine

Japan
Arisaka (any kind as a wall hanger only. If it still has the chrysanthemum on the receiver it's even better)

France
36 inch dowel with piece of recently stained bed sheet attached

Just my opinion

jamz
December 30, 2003, 03:08 PM
France
36 inch dowel with piece of recently stained bed sheet attached

:p

Cosmoline
December 30, 2003, 03:27 PM
Throw in something from Finland, since it was one of the bloodiest parts of the war. An M-28 or M-39 would be good.

Also you could toss in an M-38 Mosin carbine.

SMLE
December 30, 2003, 03:49 PM
And don't forget the "US Rifle, Calibre .30 1917" AKA the "Eddystone" or "American Enfield". We made more of them than '03s in WWI, and there were still hordes of them in service, especially in the Philippines. The Japs there even used 1917 after we cut their supply lines.

Badger Arms
December 30, 2003, 04:05 PM
French MAS rifle: Don't put a sling on it; these rifles must be easy to throw down! They don't have a safety because they were never loaded! The barrel has an attachment point for the White Flag! Instruction manuals were printed in German, Spanish, Polish, and Italian but not French! At least the Italians got to shoot their guns when the Nazi's told them they could!

Seriously, isn't it strange that the Germans adopted virtually every rifle and pistol under the sun, but I've never heard of them using captured French weapons?

Andrew Wyatt
December 30, 2003, 04:13 PM
Enfield IV Mk II

the mark 2 was post war.

the brits used the pattern 14, the number1 mk3 and the number4mk1, primarily.

Detritus
December 30, 2003, 04:55 PM
The '03 Springfield doesn't get the recognition it deserves. It was the Marine's main battle rifle thoughout most of the war in the Pacific

I'll very gently beg to differ on that one (the marine usage that is)....

from Tarawa (Nov. '43) onward most frontline Marines (ie those slated for use in assualt landings) were issued garands. Guadalcanal was the last MAJOR fight in which the frontline Marines went in with the '03 as THE main battle rifle.
the marines did continue to issue '03s for use in roles where either the '03 was better suited or garand was not yet able to preform (ie scout/snipers and for use with rifle grenades ect.). but after guadalcanal the advantages of the garand over the springfield were noted, and issue to the "landing teams" begun.

the misconception of the Marines going through the majority of the pacific war without the garand is most likely due to teh fact that they DID go through close to 2 years of the war with the Springfield, fighting such highly remembered battles as Wake Island, and then Guadalcanal and all the preceeding not-as-well known fights with the the old warhorse.
But again from Gilberts campaign (Tarawa/Apamama) onward, to Okinawa the garand was the main battle rifle of the USMC as well as the Army.

Detritus
December 30, 2003, 05:55 PM
as to "what to get" to complete the collection...

that all depends on how "complete" you want to be, whether you want to limit the collection to only certain national origins, and how much money you have at your disposal..... :D :evil:

so here's MY list with dividers for "should get", stuff that was second/rear echelon etc, and "how much cabbage you GOT jack?" (note: since this is the rifle area i'll limit to rifles and carbines)

US: Rifles NEEDED
M-1 Garand, M-1 Carbine, M1903(A3/A4)
rifles of secondary usage
1917 enfield
things limited by cash flow/rarity
M1941 Johnson Rifle (Mil-tech has some of these but the "refurb" they do kills alot of collector value)

Japan:
Type 99 and 38 Arisaka rifles

UK:
SMLE (No1 Mk3), No.4 Mk1 and No.5 Mk1 Enfields, with a P14 (upon which the M1917 "enfeild" was based, difference being chambering) thrown in to Represent the homeguard (if you can find one that is)

Germany:Must have
K98 Mauser
if you can afford and/or find
Gewehr43 and K43 semi-autos (aka "hitler's garand"), STG44, FG42

also remember that the Germans never tossed away anything that actually worked, even if it WAS the enemy's gear, so it was entirely possible for member of the wehrmacht or a volksgenadier to be armed with a Garand or SVT-40

Russia:
whichever example of the Mosin-Nagant family you're most comfortable with/can find easy but a 91/30 is probably most representative.

Then there's the SVT-40 (or slightly earlier SVT-38)

Smoke Rizen
December 30, 2003, 07:18 PM
Don't leave out the 45's! The Thompson,and the Grease Gun likely gave a warm fuzzy in close combat,and cover fire. "I may not hit much but,I can keep their heads down !" S.R.

Cortland
December 30, 2003, 07:44 PM
Arisaka (any kind as a wall hanger only. If it still has the chrysanthemum on the receiver it's even better)

Whatcha mean as a well hanger only? :scrutiny:

You're not implying they're unsafe to shoot now are you?

GD
December 31, 2003, 08:53 AM
I would add a Finn rifle, especially a M27, M28, or M28/30 as these would have been used in the Winter War at the beginning of WW2. The M39 would have been used later in the Continuation and Lapland Wars of WW2.
Also quite affordable right now are the Czech VZ24s which have quite a bit of history behind them. Germany captured the BRNO factory early and then used these rifles in their armed forces.
I don't know if anything French would be considered a Main Battle Rifle of WW2. The Vichy French were our ememies but the only people they terrified were their own. They did have a little action in North Africa though - most of it without their rifles.

vmi93
December 31, 2003, 04:37 PM
There were Frenchmen fighting on both sides in WW2. DeGaulle's Free French used entirely US equipment. There was also a French SS division (Charlemagne) that fought to the end in the Battle for Berlin. I think they had all German equipment. I'm reading Anthony Beevor's "The Fall of Berlin 1945" now and I also seem to remember a brief mention of Volkssturm (kids and old men) units armed with captured French weapons.

The MAS 36 was the last pre-war French rifle, and they are fairly easy to find on Gunbroker and C&R "for sale" forums.

Good luck, I started a similar themed collection 2 years ago and I am still working on it (I need to build another gun rack). :D

The-Distinctive-Edge
December 31, 2003, 05:00 PM
wow, I know little about guns, a knife guy and all, but this sounds like the beginning of a heck of a collection! Paul

Hkmp5sd
December 31, 2003, 06:42 PM
BTW, Inter Ordnance and a few others currently have a batch of German Kar 98K rifles that were captured by the Russians and arsenal refinished before being put it storage. They have all original German markings and codes intact. The prices vary depending on codes/markings, ranging from $185 to P.O.R.

Baba Louie
December 31, 2003, 07:16 PM
I agree fully with Smoke Rizen
Well, its not really an MBR (but neither was the M1 carbine technically), don't forget a Thompson M1... even tho you can't really get a real one unless you've got big bucks and patience, you can get a longer snouted semi-auto version from Auto Ordnance... I hear that they're going to be offering a 10" barreled version soon, but more legal hoops to jump through on that.
And its not an old firearm, it'd be new...
But the cool factor is high for an 11 lb .45acp firing carbine. Almost as high as the price.
And even tho Sweden sat it out, if you can get a Swedish M-38 or M-96/38 Mauser, you'd never regret it, I promise. Few of them saw any hard duty, all are a ball to shoot. Not as cheap as some and supplys are kinda drying up.

MuzzleBlast
January 1, 2004, 04:12 PM
I can't believe all y'all forgot the all-important first step:

GET A C&R LICENSE!

shotcalla
January 1, 2004, 11:31 PM
Thanks for all the reply's, I am going to probably start with getting my C&R, it will go in the mail this week. So far this is what it will begin with, I've also put the prices I expect to pay for shooters with original parts.

US
Garand ($750) Springfield Select Grade

UK
Enfield IV (300)

Soviet Union
Mosin-Nagant 91-30 (200)

Germany - no groundouts of the proofs
K-98 (200)

Italy
Carcano Carbine (200)

Japan - I want one with the Mum
Arisaka Type 99 (350)


So it looks like for under $2k I can get an entry level MBR Allied/Axis collection. I suspect the value of such will only increase with time.

Andrew Wyatt
January 1, 2004, 11:58 PM
not to nitpick or anything, but I have never seen enfields labelled with roman numerals.


It's the Number4 mark 1 (or 2).

Houndawg
January 2, 2004, 12:28 AM
A Springfield Garand from the CMP is only $500 plus shipping.

You can get Mosin Nagant 91/30's for under $70 all day long.

SMLE
January 2, 2004, 01:04 AM
not to nitpick or anything, but I have never seen enfields labelled with roman numerals.

Then you haven't seen a #1 MkV

http://www.geocities.com/lee_enfield_rifles/Mk5Buttsocket.jpg

Or a Lithgow #1 MkIII

http://www.geocities.com/lee_enfield_rifles/LithgowbuttS.jpg

Here is a later version of the Lithgow marking.

http://www.smellysmleshooters.net/lithgowmk3_01.jpg

The #4 could be marked Either Roman or Arabic.

http://www.geocities.com/lee_enfield_rifles/LBStmpSm.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/lee_enfield_rifles/electropencil.jpg

jrhead75
January 2, 2004, 07:30 PM
SMLE's right.

As for the Brits' MBR... The Lee-Enfield Rifle No1MkIII or III* was used by the "colonial" troops, as well as the Brits early war, in the Med or Africa. The Rifle No4MkI or I* was used for the rest of the war.

Rifle No5Mk1 (AKA the "Jungle Carbine"), was first produced in 1944.

Note: the above are generalizations, YMMV.

If you enjoyed reading about "I'm starting a guns of WWII collection, what should I get?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!