Can I give a handgun to my son who lives in a differnet state?


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tbeb
January 18, 2011, 01:33 PM
I live in Indiana. My son lives in Kentucky. If I give him a handgun without using a FFL holder, am I breaking state and/or federal law. I think I know the answer and you might to, but I hope to hear from those of you who know for sure. Thanks.

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teumessian_fox
January 18, 2011, 02:03 PM
It's been awhile, but IIRC, you'll have to go through a FFL.

TrakHack
January 18, 2011, 02:20 PM
I was actually researching this last night as my dad wants to give me one of his handguns. I was unsuccessful in finding any federal laws that specifically address this kind if interstate transfer, but it's entirely possible I wasn't looking in the right place. Lots about interstate transport, not so much about interstate transfers among family and friends.

I'm going to check my state's law next.

dogtown tom
January 18, 2011, 02:30 PM
TrakHack I was actually researching this last night as my dad wants to give me one of his handguns. I was unsuccessful in finding any federal laws that specifically address this kind if interstate transfer, but it's entirely possible I wasn't looking in the right place. Lots about interstate transport, not so much about interstate transfers among family and friends.

I don't know where you did your researching, but the ATF website is as good a place as any: http://www.atf.gov/

"Family and friends" don't get any special treatment or exemption from the Gun Control Act of 1968. Transfers between residents of different states are exactly the same as if between two strangers.

From the ATF Firearms FAQ's:
Q: To whom may an unlicensed person transfer firearms under the GCA?A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his State, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may loan or rent a firearm to a resident of any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may sell or transfer a firearm to a licensee in any State. However, a firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(d), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]

Q: From whom may an unlicensed person acquire a firearm under the GCA?A person may only acquire a firearm within the person’s own State, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee’s premises in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]

-By "license" they refer to a Federal Firearms License.
-the little numbers below each FAQ answer are the citations from the US Code of Federal Regulations (the law)

Meaning...........

Your father must ship the gun to a licensed dealer in your state, where you must complete a 4473 and pass the NICS background check to receive your firearm.

CoRoMo
January 18, 2011, 02:44 PM
Tom's right. One thing I could add is that, if the handgun is technically defined as an antique, then it is not a firearm, and you can ship it, even via the USPS, right to him. Even in this situation though, state and local laws might still get in the way. I'm certain that this is not the case, but anyways.

Sam1911
January 18, 2011, 02:56 PM
Listen to Tom. He's given you the info straight from the source.

Interstate transfers go through a dealer -- unless the giver is DEAD and the gun is listed specifically in the will as going to the receiver.

SaxonPig
January 18, 2011, 05:56 PM
You know, I'm just about tired of being told to obey BS laws that don't affect criminals or deter crime in the least but only inhibit the law abiding.

If I wanted to give my son a gun I believe I would just send it to him.

Sam1911
January 18, 2011, 06:07 PM
If I wanted to give my son a gun I believe I would just send it to him.

SEND? Wow. Now I'm losing count. That's a federal felony for the transferer who's giving, a federal felony for the transferee who's receiving, and a federal felony for shipping a gun across state lines to a non-licensee. Any more?

Magoo
January 18, 2011, 06:15 PM
More than likely you can find a handful of FFL dealers in his area that can do the transfer. Often times it'll only cost $20. Cheap price to pay to stay on the good side of the ATF.

Put his zip code in at this link and see what you can find: http://www.gunbroker.com/FFL/DealerNetwork.aspx

teumessian_fox
January 18, 2011, 08:25 PM
If I wanted to give my son a gun I believe I would just send it to him.


Yeah, make your son a felon. Maybe you both could lose your rights to own firearms. Smart.

swinokur
January 18, 2011, 09:17 PM
You can lend for "sporting purposes". Open ended loan?

Jim Watson
January 18, 2011, 09:51 PM
if the handgun is technically defined as an antique, then it is not a firearm, and you can ship it, even via the USPS,

I do not think so.
The USPS definition is stricter than the BATF's.
As I recall, it would have to be a muzzleloader to be mailable by an American Commoner. Heck, I had to get my FFL to sign off when mailing a pellet pistol to the service center.

SaxonPig
January 18, 2011, 10:10 PM
S1911 & TF- I don't believe the average person can go 72 hours of their normal daily routine without violating numerous laws without even trying. There are too many and 99% are BS.

As someone once observed, it's only illegal if you get caught... and convicted.

As John Adams observed, it is our duty to ignore bad laws.

Black Butte
January 18, 2011, 10:28 PM
If I wanted to give my son a gun I believe I would just send it to him.

Family reunion in cell-block C.

TrakHack
January 18, 2011, 10:45 PM
Thanks for the info and the actual letter of the law. Since I don't really want it, I'll tell my dad to hang on to that gun until he's dead. Shouldn't be a problem.

tbeb
January 18, 2011, 11:26 PM
I didn't thing I could.

(I guess I should've gave him the handgun a couple years ago when he lived in Indiana. Wait... I could give him a handgun that I owned when he lived in Indiana, along with paperwork showing a date back then...)

OcelotZ3
January 18, 2011, 11:48 PM
Heck, it's not that far to drive to KY from Indiana... Used to do it all the time from Terre Haute.

Drive to an FFL in KY, do the transfer, all done...

dacavasi
January 19, 2011, 12:14 AM
In my own experience, I had to use an FFL on both ends of a transfer from my Dad's estate for a pistol, from MI to TX. YMMV

Brass Rain
January 19, 2011, 02:39 AM
If two people live in the same state and one gives another a gun and the receiving party leaves the state with said gun, is there any legal issue there?

Losov
January 19, 2011, 05:19 AM
Can he not lend the firearm to his son for sporting purposes?

ultradoc
January 19, 2011, 07:58 AM
what if you visited him and 'accidently' left it there?

Sam1911
January 19, 2011, 08:09 AM
In my own experience, I had to use an FFL on both ends of a transfer from my Dad's estate for a pistol, from MI to TX. YMMV If the gun was left to you, specifically, in the will, then that was not necessary. You could have picked up the gun and brought it home with you. Of course, if the gun needed to be shipped, that complicates matters.

If the gun was not left to you specifically, but was part of the estate that passed to your mother or something like that, then yes, it would have had to be transferred via. FFL dealers.

swinokur
January 19, 2011, 08:11 AM
Can he not lend the firearm to his son for sporting purposes?

I mentioned this a few posts back. It is perfectly legal to lend a weapon for "sporting" purposes without an FFL transfer. I lent my G22 to a very close friend in Atlanta over a year ago. Perfectly legal. Go read the BATFE web page. It is in their FAQ IIRC

Sam1911
January 19, 2011, 08:12 AM
If two people live in the same state and one gives another a gun and the receiving party leaves the state with said gun, is there any legal issue there?


As long as your state's laws do not require an FFL dealer to transfer guns between individuals, then no, that would be fine.

(Here in PA, for example, all handgun transfers must go through a dealer. Rifles and shotguns can be done person-to-person.)

What the resident of your state who receives the gun does with it afterward is not an issue at all. Moving to another state with a gun you already own is perfectly legal (so long as you follow the laws for owning that gun in the new state of residence).

Sam1911
January 19, 2011, 08:18 AM
Can he not lend the firearm to his son for sporting purposes?

As swinokur mentioned, the ATF says:

Q: To whom may an unlicensed person transfer firearms under the GCA? ... A person may loan or rent a firearm to a resident of any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law....[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(d), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]


What is "temporary?" A week? A month? Ten years? For life?

What are "sporting purposes?" A hunting trip? Self-defense in perpetuity?

The ATF has an AWFUL lot of leeway in interpreting these rules. Hate to have to prove it was just a temporary loan for sporting purposes.

And, of course, that gun cannot be SENT to him via the mail or common carrier, it would have to be hand-delivered. It could only be sent to an FFL holder in his state, and the FFL would have to transfer it on a 4473, thus making the question moot.

Sam1911
January 19, 2011, 08:21 AM
what if you visited him and 'accidently' left it there? I'm sure no one's ever tried claiming, "whoops," as a defense in a federal prosecution before.

The judge would be very impressed with your creativity, no doubt.

swinokur
January 19, 2011, 08:29 AM
I shipped the weapon to myself via UPS addressed to me. I flew to Atlanta and took his kids shooting. A range is certainly a "sporting" purpose. Since the ATF does not define "lending" nor length of time nor "sporting purposes" IMO I doubt very seriously you could be successfully prosecuted. IMO all perfectly legal. If BATFE doesn't mean this, they need to be alot more specific than the current wording in their FAQ.

Going through an FFL transfer would be around 100 bucks each way. IMO not necessary. YMMV

Sam1911
January 19, 2011, 08:47 AM
I shipped the weapon to myself via UPS addressed to me. I flew to Atlanta and took his kids shooting.That's all very clearly legal. As long as you shipped the package and YOU were the one to open the package on arrival. (Someone else may receive it, but not open it.)

I don't see where a loan or interstate transfer entered into your situation.

SaxonPig
January 19, 2011, 08:50 AM
To sum up on this discussion, this sort of thing happen all the time. Many times each day.

Maybe the dire warnings of prison term folks can cite one example of someone actually being charged and convicted of a crime for passing one personal gun to a family member.

swinokur
January 19, 2011, 08:52 AM
Sam:

I don't see where a loan or interstate transfer entered into your situation.

It was a loan because I left the firearm with my friend to take his kids shooting.

Sam1911
January 19, 2011, 09:07 AM
SP,

Your point is well taken, but we can't, don't, and won't advocate or discuss breaking federal laws here.

And I'm reasonably certain that there have been charges like that brought somewhere along the line since 1968. If someone wants to find them and post them that's great, but -- like with a great many other gun law violations -- the fact that you could get away with it doesn't matter at all here.

CoRoMo
January 19, 2011, 11:09 AM
More than likely you can find a handful of FFL dealers in his area that can do the transfer.
Tried that and failed. I bought a rifle for my Dad who lives in another state. I called dealer after dealer, and none of them were interested in it. They even told me, call after call, to just hand him the gun and accept his thanks. I actually had to tell them the law and force their hand at a transfer. Finding a dealer who knows these specifics can be a chore.
Me
if the handgun is technically defined as an antique, then it is not a firearm, and you can ship it, even via the USPS,
Jim Watson
I do not think so.
The USPS definition is stricter than the BATF's.
Maybe, I don't know. I was in fact referring to the USPS definition itself. As I read it, antiques are exempt from the regs that 'true firearms' have. Here's what I'm talking about...
USPS Regulations:
http://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/601.htm#wp1065404

....

g. Antique firearm means any firearm (including those with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898, or any replica thereof, if such replica:

1. Is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition.

2. Uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition that is no longer manufactured in the United States and that is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.

....

11.2 Antique Firearms
Antique firearms sent as curios or museum pieces may be accepted for mailing without regard to 11.1.3 through 11.1.6.

11.2 is the exemption to the mailing regs for non-antique firearms. I may be reading it wrong, but that is what I'm reading.

451 Detonics
January 20, 2011, 09:00 AM
Why even ask these questions in public? Unless you live in a state where firearms registration is mandatory I don't see why anyone would want to make it anyone's business other than their own.

Sam1911
January 20, 2011, 09:18 AM
Why even ask these questions in public?

Maybe because firearms laws are complicated and often non-intuitive, the penalties for violating them are very high, and someone wants to be sure they're not inadvertently becoming a felon.

Breaking the law really shouldn't be taken lightly. Even if you think you might get away with it.

NavyLCDR
January 20, 2011, 12:15 PM
Per Federal law, it is actually illegal to receive a gun in your state of residence as a loan. The loaning exception is for loaning a gun to an out-of-state person in your own state.

Examples,
I live in Washington, I want to hunt in Wyoming, it's legal for the Wyoming resident to loan me a gun while I am there.

My buddy wants to hunt in Washington with me. It is illegal for him to bring a gun to my state of residence from Wyoming and loan to me in Washington while he is here.

18 USC 922 (a)(3) and (a)(5). The loaning exception is ONLY in 18 USC 922 (a)(5) and is NOT in (a)(3).

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00000922----000-.html

(a) It shall be unlawful—
(3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State, except that this paragraph (A) shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State, (B) shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a firearm obtained in conformity with subsection (b)(3) of this section, and (C) shall not apply to the transportation of any firearm acquired in any State prior to the effective date of this chapter;

^^^^ NO loaning exception for receiving a gun in your own state of residence from an out of state source (except long guns obtained from an out-of-state FFL).

(a) It shall be unlawful—
(5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides; except that this paragraph shall not apply to

(A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence, and

(B) the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;

^^^^ the loaning exception ONLY applies if the person receiving the gun isn't taking it back to or receiving it in his home state.

Here on THR, we don't discuss breaking laws just because they are stupid, we don't agree with them, or there is next to zero chance of getting caught.

Sam1911,

You left one felony out. If SaxonPig mails his handgun to his out-of-state resident via USPS, that is another felony.

Sam1911
January 20, 2011, 12:31 PM
Yes, you are right. I was assuming the best of the worst there, I guess. :uhoh:

Never put two-and-two together on the loan issue like that! Great info!

NavyLCDR
January 20, 2011, 12:57 PM
Well... what I should say is that it is illegal for the Wyoming hunter to LEAVE his gun with me in Washington as a loan. Obviously, if he is here with his gun, it's OK for me to shoot it. That's just shooting his gun..not really a loan. But if the gun left his presence, and I was in sole possession of it, then it would become an illegal loan.

The same requirement is placed upon FFLs who loan and rent guns for shooting ranges. They do not have to do a 4473 or background check to loan or rent their guns on premises. But if the gun is going to leave their premises as a loan or rental to a person, then they do have to do a 4473 and background check.

451 Detonics
January 20, 2011, 04:04 PM
After reading some of the responses to my post I suddenly realized...oops...my bad, I forgot common sense was extinct these days. I don't advocate breaking the law at the same time, unless conditions were such as I stated above, I really doubt I would transfer through an FFL...I would just give it to him next time I saw him in person. I was answering the OP...not loaning a buddy in another state a gun when I wasn't there.

And I just bet none of you ever exceed the speed limits either...

swinokur
January 20, 2011, 04:46 PM
I sure wish that the BATFE FAQ made this clear. If you read it it only states you can lend a firearm for sporting purposes. Leaving out the salient points you just brought up will get you in big trouble.

Thanks for the read on this. Guess when I go to Atlanta to shoot with my friends I'll have to bring the gun home with me.

NavyLCDR
January 20, 2011, 04:55 PM
Maybe a few posters on here need to move out of the United States to a place where the firearms laws are less oppressive since it is impossible for you to follow them here.

Sam1911
January 20, 2011, 07:39 PM
I forgot common sense was extinct these days
These days? Really? You do realize that, since 1934 -- that's nearing 77 years now -- it has been illegal to change the barrel on your shotgun from 18" long to 17-15/16" long? As in BIG jail time illegal. Where is the common sense in gun laws? Again, the OP asked what the law is. We told him. That's what we do.

I don't advocate breaking the law at the same time, unless conditions were such as I stated above, I really doubt I would transfer through an FFL...I would just give it to him next time I saw him in person.
And both of you would be committing federal felonies. If that is ok with you, wow, whatever, but we don't condone, advocate, or discuss willfully breaking the law here.

I was answering the OPBut the OP asked if this is against the law. You didn't answer that question at all.

If there's nothing more to be learned here maybe we aught to close this before it gets any farther off the High Road.

JNewell
January 20, 2011, 07:47 PM
SEND? Wow. Now I'm losing count. That's a federal felony for the transferer who's giving, a federal felony for the transferee who's receiving, and a federal felony for shipping a gun across state lines to a non-licensee. Any more?

Well, there's posting an intent to commit a federal felony, and encouraging and advising others to commit a federal felony, on a public forum; does that count??? :eek: :( :uhoh: :what:

Hunter125
January 20, 2011, 10:50 PM
I can't speak for KY, but I just recently went through the same thing. My dad lives in IN and I, unfortunately, live in IL. It did take me about 3 weeks to get through to the IL State Police Firearms line, but they confirmed that all I needed to do for a legal, cross state line transfer was for my dad to keep a bill of sale with our names, addresses, phone numbers, and gun make, model, and serial number. Just to be safe my dad and I both kept copies of the transfer record. With IL being as ridiculous as they are with gun laws and not letting us have our rights and all, I was impressed that it was that easy.

As I was trying to figure out how to do it legally I talked to a local gun shop owner and FFL dealer. He told me that the extent of registration was that he took the buyers information, put it all on the correct form, and stuck his record book in the drawer until the Police or FBI called and asked for the information on a particular gun.
He said that if I wanted to pay extra for no good reason I could have my dad pay $30 on his end and me pay $30 on my end to ship between two FFL dealers, but it would end up the same either way.
I would suggest calling the KY state police and asking them how to do a person to person transfer across state lines.

Sam1911
January 20, 2011, 11:09 PM
but they confirmed that all I needed to do for a legal, cross state line transfer was for my dad to keep a bill of sale with our names, addresses, phone numbers, and gun make, model, and serial number.
If I'm understanding you clearly, and they really told you that you don't need an FFL to do a transfer across state lines, then they instructed you and him to both commit federal felonies. I'm not saying that they didn't tell you this. It is NOT uncommon for police officers to have a poor understanding of even their state laws, let alone federal ones.


As I was trying to figure out how to do it legally I talked to a local gun shop owner and FFL dealer. He told me that the extent of registration was that he took the buyers information, put it all on the correct form, and stuck his record book in the drawer until the Police or FBI called and asked for the information on a particular gun.That's correct.


He said that if I wanted to pay extra for no good reason I could have my dad pay $30 on his end and me pay $30 on my end to ship between two FFL dealers, but it would end up the same either way.
Right. He's saying you could ship the gun across state lines from one dealer to another, but that isn't required. You can ship TO an FFL as an individual, if that FFL chooses to accept shipments from non-dealers. You can also simply bring the gun to the buyer's dealer (in the buyer's state) and do the transfer paperwork right there.

Hunter125
January 20, 2011, 11:11 PM
Sorry for the double post. Internet screwed up and now I can't figure out how to delete one.

CDW4ME
January 21, 2011, 09:33 AM
My boys are considerably under 18, much less 21.
Couldn't I "give" (without any paperwork) them the firearms I want them to have now but just continue to keep them in my safe for them until later?
When they become an adult, if they do become a resident of another state, during a get together I could personally give them thier gun I'd been keeping for the last 14+ years. No shipping across state lines. Anything wrong with that?

NavyLCDR
January 21, 2011, 04:11 PM
My boys are considerably under 18, much less 21.
Couldn't I "give" (without any paperwork) them the firearms I want them to have now but just continue to keep them in my safe for them until later?
When they become an adult, if they do become a resident of another state, during a get together I could personally give them thier gun I'd been keeping for the last 14+ years. No shipping across state lines. Anything wrong with that?

If they are handguns, the initial permanent transfer to the <18 year old person would be illegal.

18 USC 922(x):

(x)
(1) It shall be unlawful for a person to sell, deliver, or otherwise transfer to a person who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe is a juvenile—
(A) a handgun; or
(B) ammunition that is suitable for use only in a handgun.
(2) It shall be unlawful for any person who is a juvenile to knowingly possess—
(A) a handgun; or
(B) ammunition that is suitable for use only in a handgun.
(3) This subsection does not apply to—
(A) a temporary transfer of a handgun or ammunition to a juvenile or to the possession or use of a handgun or ammunition by a juvenile if the handgun and ammunition are possessed and used by the juvenile—
(i) in the course of employment, in the course of ranching or farming related to activities at the residence of the juvenile (or on property used for ranching or farming at which the juvenile, with the permission of the property owner or lessee, is performing activities related to the operation of the farm or ranch), target practice, hunting, or a course of instruction in the safe and lawful use of a handgun;
(ii) with the prior written consent of the juvenile’s parent or guardian who is not prohibited by Federal, State, or local law from possessing a firearm, except—
(I) during transportation by the juvenile of an unloaded handgun in a locked container directly from the place of transfer to a place at which an activity described in clause (i) is to take place and transportation by the juvenile of that handgun, unloaded and in a locked container, directly from the place at which such an activity took place to the transferor; or
(II) with respect to ranching or farming activities as described in clause (i), a juvenile may possess and use a handgun or ammunition with the prior written approval of the juvenile’s parent or legal guardian and at the direction of an adult who is not prohibited by Federal, State or local law from possessing a firearm;
(iii) the juvenile has the prior written consent in the juvenile’s possession at all times when a handgun is in the possession of the juvenile; and
(iv) in accordance with State and local law;

NavyLCDR
January 21, 2011, 04:14 PM
I can't speak for KY, but I just recently went through the same thing. My dad lives in IN and I, unfortunately, live in IL. It did take me about 3 weeks to get through to the IL State Police Firearms line, but they confirmed that all I needed to do for a legal, cross state line transfer was for my dad to keep a bill of sale with our names, addresses, phone numbers, and gun make, model, and serial number. Just to be safe my dad and I both kept copies of the transfer record. With IL being as ridiculous as they are with gun laws and not letting us have our rights and all, I was impressed that it was that easy.

I dare you to take your transfer records to your local ATF field office and show them to an ATF Federal agent and see what they say or do. Local police enforce local gun laws and have no authority, and in this case, no knowledge of Federal firearms laws which are applicable to interstate movements/transfers of firearms.

SharpsDressedMan
January 22, 2011, 03:24 PM
Who is ever going to know if said son got the gun before he left the state the father is living in, or after? The story would always be that the son got the gun when he was a resident of Dad's state. Let the government make THEIR case (I think they have bigger fish to worry about).

Sam1911
January 22, 2011, 04:22 PM
The story would always be that the son got the gun when he was a resident of Dad's state.

That's fine, if the story is TRUE. We aren't going to advocate lying -- OR committing felonies, and lying to cover it up.

That's not The High Road way.

BlkHawk73
January 22, 2011, 05:09 PM
So let me toss in a scenario... A person passes away and their firearms are to be sent to someone in another state. The person w/o knowing just sends the guns to the recipient. With the aging population, I'm sure many older folks, especially widows, wouldn't think twice about this type of scenario.

Sam1911
January 22, 2011, 05:14 PM
So let me toss in a scenario... A person passes away and their firearms are to be sent to someone in another state. The person w/o knowing just sends the guns to the recipient. With the aging population, I'm sure many older folks, especially widows, wouldn't think twice about this type of scenario.

If the firearms in question are mentioned specifically in the will as going to a named individual, that individual can come pick them up and take them home with no 4473 needed.

If they must be shipped interstate, then they must go to an FFL.

They cannot be "sent" interstate via mail or a common carrier without going through a dealer.

"Without knowing" the law is not an affirmative defense -- even for old folks in an aging population.

SharpsDressedMan
January 22, 2011, 05:29 PM
In a perfect world, everyone obeys the laws all the time. We try to be perfect here on THR. Thanks to all the lawful information offered here, I now know what I should do if the situation comes up.

Sam1911
January 22, 2011, 05:54 PM
In a perfect world, everyone obeys the laws all the time. We try to be perfect here on THR

Alas, all we can do is educate and try to help folks stay out of trouble.

earlthegoat2
January 22, 2011, 06:06 PM
Here is a hypothetical example. This is intended to be both educational and satirical. I hope you all see the implications.

You have a double shotgun.

If you move to another state you can bring your shotgun with you right? Yes. (double shotguns are legal in all 50 states)

You become a resident of that state.

Your son lives in that state as well and you give him that double shotgun.

You move back to the state you just came from.

Nothing illegal happened.

Just sayin......

Sam1911
January 22, 2011, 06:17 PM
That is correct. There are specific legal definitions for what constitutes becoming a resident of a state, and while they are not exactly what most people think they are, they are going to be a whole lot more bother and expense than taking that shotgun to an FFL and doing a transfer the normal way.

So...what is the point of this hypothetical? WHAT are you "just sayin?"

texas bulldog
January 22, 2011, 10:37 PM
It's pretty impressive how many folks on this thread have openly suggested their intent and/or methods to flout federal firearms laws. You know that things you say on the internet can, in fact, be linked back to you, right? That'll make that whole "Oh...I didn't know" defense a lot harder to pull off (not that it would've worked anyway).

earlthegoat2
January 22, 2011, 11:59 PM
Im just saying people can cook up a story that is both believeable and slides under any prying eyes.

Usually as long as you are smart about things you wont get caught. If you make a business SELLING guns across state lines you WILL get caught. If you bring a family member a gun and give it to them odds are small of getting caught.

Once again though we are talking about a 20-30 dollar fee here.

Just man up and do it the right way.

Sam1911
January 23, 2011, 10:24 AM
Just man up and do it the right way.

Agreed.

As the question has been VERY thoroughly answered, let's put it to bed, lest more folks come and preemptively incriminate themselves.

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