[1911Tuner]

To address a question that was posed over on the clinic, I thought I'd
share this related story, since I just got the pistol up and runnin' today.

2 years ago, I bought a NRM Colt Government Model from my neighbor
who fell on hard times, and needed the money more than he needed another 1911 pistol.

The pistol wasn't one of the better ones that I'd seen, but the price was
right, so I forked over the cash. The only real problem was that the slide had a lot of vertical play, and since I was tied up with other projects and
working the dogs, it went to the back burner. Last Saturday, it came out of the safe for a little tightening up.

I peened the frame rails down just a little, and lapped them to fit. The job
went well, and the pistol was as tight and smooth as it should have been.
Then a problem reared up when I went to shoot it. About one try in ten, the hammer either wouldn't fall, or it would fall to the half-cock. The
disconnector wasn't resetting.

Why? Because when I brought the rails down, I brought the slide down with them. The disconnector was probably at the high end of tolerance on the length, and it wasn't coming up into the timing slot far eough to reset.
I didn't check it, since I only peened the rails a little, and the largest amount was at the front, since that was where things were out of spec.
It was enough though.

The problem was remedied by scraping the slot deeper. The amount of
material removed was probably less than the thickness of a sheet of typing
paper, but that was all it needed. Sometimes a hairs breadth is all it takes to stop one cold. I took a little more out, just to be sure, and to allow for
dirt, and took the pistol to the range this morning to wring it out. Happy
to report that all is well, and the pistol is a little more accurate to boot,
due to the lower lug and crosspin being a little more cozy. To allow for
the closer up and down fit, I removed a little amount from the saddle
to let the barrel fall a little lower at full llinkdown, and this settled the
feet in the bed perfectly, and they hit the bed at the same time the barrel hits the saddle. My requisite .020 clearance between the top of the barrel and underside of the slide was maintained, and I'm a happy camper.

Sometimes even a blind squirrel finds a nut. :cool:

Chitty-Chitty, bang bang!
Tuner

[Cactus]

1911Tuner,

I'm having the same problem with one of my Series 70's. Approximately once every 30 - 40 rounds the hammer won't fall.

What part of the disconnector do you scrape? Is it the top of the hole in the disconnector and what did you use for the work?

Thanks,
Cactus

[1911Tuner]

Howdy Cactus,

First, make sure that the length of the disconnector is the problem.
At the rate of one in 40, I'd about bet that it's something else. Dirt in
the channel that's making the disconnector move sluggishly, or a weak sear spring. If it started suddenly after being reliable in the past, it's
probably not the disconnector's fault.

When it happens, can you get it to fire by racking the slide and pulling on
the trigger a few times? If you can, it's probably gunk in the channel.
Try squirting a little WD40 around the top of it and work it in with the
trigger pulled...Do it about 10-15 times and try it again. If the problem goes away, you'll need to detail strip the frame and clean the channel.

I had one stop cold one day at the range, and I had to tear it down to
clean the channel. Gunk Carb medic is good for getting all the crud out.

I've started a thread on how to detail strip the gun. Easy to do. If you
want to try it, and get stuck, I'll walk you through it on the phone if we have to go that route.

Standin' by...
Tuner

[JeffC]

Tuner I did the same with my Colt, I just peened down the front. The frame slots were as wide as .125 in some places up front, now they are down to .118-.119 just like the rear. By no means is it a tight frame to slide fit but now it's consistant front to rear.

Luckily I had no failures at the range and by the way, I did do some saddle work also. I had no gap between the throat and feed ramp and while it always fed it bugged me, just deepening the saddle a hair and widening the dimple gave me the gap I needed.

[1911Tuner]

Good show! Was that the 1918 Colt that you had the timing problem with?
If I remember right, that was the first PM that I sent you.

[Cactus]

Thanks 1911Tuner. The pistol is not dirty, I do a full detail strip quite regularly. It fires fine after I rack the slide. It sounds like I will need to get a new sear spring. And I JUST sent in an order to Brownells yesterday!:(

[1911Tuner]

Hope the sear spring does the trick. If the pistol just started doing it
out of the blue, that's probably it. Next time you have the disconnector out,
check to make sure it moves freely in the channel and check for a sharp
edge on the face and at the top and bottom of the trigger stirrup.

With the frame assembled, look into the magwell with a strong light.
If you can see the corner of the disconnector protruding into the well,
that could be it. The corner can come into contact with the magazine,
and put the disconnector in a bind. The disconnector in most newer
pistols have that corner radiused. If it's an older pistol, it may have one
with a square corner. If yours is square and sharp, radius it a little with
a fine-cut file, and polish it. The first time I ran into this, I was 14. My
uncle knew what it was, but he let me go bonkers trying to figure it out,
and stopped me just shy of taking a file to the sides of the disconnector
to create more clearance. He showed me what it was by sanding the bluing off an old magazine, and using Prussian Blue so I could see where the contact was. Then he filed some relief into the back of the magazine
to prove that was it.

Have a look. We might get lucky and nail it.

Be well,
Tuner

[JeffC]

Good show! Was that the 1918 Colt that you had the timing problem with?If I remember right, that was the first PM that I sent you.

Seems like just yesterday :)

Actually this was my NRM Gov't model. I read your response on Pistolsmith.com about having too much vertical play and being able to see the recoil spring..... that described my gun perfectly.

But my ole 1918 is still blastin' away thanks to you Tuner :cool: .

[HSMITH]

I have a beautiful hard chromed slide here that a "gunsmith" opened up the disconnector channel on, and I consider it RUINED!!!!!!. That is NOT the right way to fix it. The disconnector is a $15 wear item and the slide a $200 durable, tell me which one you want to replace?

DO NOT DO ANYTHING TO THE SLIDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! FIT THE DISCONNECTOR INSTEAD!!!!!!!!!!

Modification to the slide in the disconnector channel screams "kitchen table gunsmith" and should be avoided, you never know what you are going to get from someone that would do something so ignorant.

[JeffC]

With all due respect HSMITH, I believe the ancient scrolls say to NEVER NEVER shorten a disconnector..... it's bad juju.

[1911Tuner]

HS Smith said:

I have a beautiful hard chromed slide here that a "gunsmith" opened up the disconnector channel on,
------------------------------------

If he made the slot longer...yeah, he might have screwed the
pooch. Deeper is the way to go, not longer, although I've had to make a couple slightly longer forward...maybe .010 inch...but Jeff is onthe money again. The disconnector should never be shortened unless it's badly out of spec, in which case, it should be replaced anyway. Cutting material off
the top will allow it to reset into the slot, but then it probably won't get below the trigger and sear when the slide moves. The result is that the sear remains rotated away from the hammer hooks and the hammer rides the slide back to battery. Known as Hammer Followdown.

Do NOT shorten the disconnector. Deepen the slot.
Brownells sells a tool designed specifically for the purpose. I made
mine, but they accomplish the same thing.

Welcome to the clinic. Bigjim is to blame.:D

Tuner

[stans]

I would rather shorten an over-length disconnector than modify a slide. I do feel it is ok to slightly deepen the disconnector slot in the slide if the slide to frame vertical clearance is tightened. I once had an opposite condition. A 1911 that would allow the hammer to follow constantly. The disconnector length measured out correctly, so began measuring the dimensions of the slide. Seems this was an old Essex slide and just about every dimension was off by a few thousandths of an inch. A new slide cured this 1911's problems.

[1911Tuner]

stans said:

"I would rather shorten an over-length disconnector than modify a slide."


Overlength where? Overall or from the top of the paddle to the
tip? From the tip to the bottom of the paddle? From the tip to the
top of the paddle, you can get away with a little removal. Overall
length out-of-spec...maybe not.

Making the slot a little deeper is the tried and true method. If the location of the slot is out-of-spec, it can be made a little longer on the front or the
rear of the stem diameter can be reduced a little and the front of the
channel prick punched to force the top of the disconnector rearward
a bit. A combination of both mods often works best....better to get a
little from two areas than a lot from one.

What did ya do with that Essex slide?:) If you've still got it, send it to
me!

[Old Fuff]

John Browning was, as usual, aware of the problem of a disconector not raising high enough, and so the original 1911 pistols had a short hole bored in the center of the disconector slot. The slot itself provided a bevel for the disconector to ride up and down as the slide moved back and forth. In later years the hole was eliminated and the slot deepened – probably as a cost cutting move and to lessen wear on the disconector’s tip.

In any case, if the disconector is not rising enough, and is correctly dimensioned the correct procedure is to scrape the disconector slot to deepen it while not making it longer. Regarding the chrome-plated slide mentioned in another message, a correction should have been made to the slide, as well as other parts before the plating was applied. In this case there might be some justification in altering the disconector so that the plating on the slide’s disconector slot wouldn’t peel or flake off. Be that as it may, any competent pistolsmith will be sure that all necessary fitting and adjustments are done and working before any new finish, plated or otherwise is applied.

And yes. Tuner is right about deepening the disconector slot – a procedure that is used by military armorers as well as most civilian pistolsmiths that specialize in the 1911 style pistol. Making modifications on the disconector may solve a problem, but will likely lead to something else. Doing what is right has nothing whatsoever too do with the relative cost of the parts involved, and everything too do with having a safe, reliable pistol.

[1911Tuner]

Old Fuff said:

and so the original 1911 pistols had a short hole bored in the center of the disconector slot.

Funny story! A guy that I used to run dogs with bought an old
GI Colt at a gunshow...Nice pistol, and very clean. He brought
it for me to have a look at because he found "something wrong" and
was in a lather over being ripped off by the seller.

When he got here, he immediately field-stripped the pistol to show me
where the disconnector had worn a hole in the slide.:D I tried to
buy that pistol from him for 15 years, and finally gave up. He said
that it shot better than his Gold Cup, and would likey be buried with it.:cool:

Happy New Year! Everybody behave now...Y'hear?

Tuner

[Old Fuff]

Yup .....

I've had people bring me old 1911 pistols to have the slide replaced because the disconector had worn a hole into the slide. This was most remarkable because in many cases the original blue was still intact. I should have taken them up on this because those old slides are getting to be worth some money.

Always a day late and a dollar short. ....

[1911Tuner]

Old Fuff said:


Always a day late and a dollar short.

You ain't foolin' me. It was the Honesty and Integrity thing that your
parents put there starting when you were old enough to understand
what "NO" meant.:D My old man was one of those too. It's the same
thing that keeps us from passin' off a lemon to the next poor stiff.

have a good'un, Fuff!

Tuner

[stans]

What did ya do with that Essex slide? If you've still got it, send it to

Still got it, makes a dandy paperweight! I don't dispose of faulty parts, I just find new jobs for them!:D