Canada and Handguns


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hamburglar
January 19, 2011, 05:09 PM
Ok, I have done a significant amount of research on this already but I wanted to see if anyone else here had some insight.

I am planning a road trip to Alaska this summer for which, part of the journey will be through BC Canada. As a means of personal protection from wildlife I was thinking of bringing my 9mm handgun.

Please don't reply if all you have to say is a 9mm wouldn't take down a bear, that is obvious.

This being said, I've read about filing for a transport form prior to travel through Canada but in addition, there is a clause that states:

"The ATT will not be issued for hunting or self-protection purposes"...
located on this government address:
http://www.consular.canada.usembassy.gov/weapons_into_canada.asp

I do not own a rifle or have the space on a motorcycle to carry one. So it would be a handgun or nothing...

My friend and I will be camping the whole time so having a knife and handgun would provide decent protection from whatever might think we're food.

Thanks for the input,
Cole

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clamman
January 19, 2011, 05:16 PM
This has been beat to death on many forums. In short, leave the gun at home. They are not allowed.

CyBuzz
January 19, 2011, 05:56 PM
Leaving the states....you have to abide by their laws. Bummer as it is....those are the laws. I wouldn't want to end up in jail in a foreign country...in fact...I really don't want to visit a foreign country either.

atlctyslkr
January 20, 2011, 12:11 AM
I wouldn't try it since concealing on a motorcycle isn't going to be easy. What if you actually had to use it and then someone reported you?

rodregier
January 20, 2011, 12:19 AM
Read here, excellent guide:

http://www.panda.com/canadaguns/

Executive summary: Not possible in the amount of time between now and the summer,
even if you had an unlimited budget and infinite spare time to jump thru all the hoops.

Even with the proper paperwork, the best outcome possible would be paperwork to permit transport of double locked and unloaded handgun. Not a very useful result.

Kasinefect
January 20, 2011, 12:23 AM
Don't even try it! I've heard of several U.S. citizens crossing into Canada being asked if they have a gun? Canadian customs has been known to take cars apart looking for drugs; I don't doubt that they would do it if looking for a gun.

razorback2003
January 20, 2011, 03:25 AM
You can take a handgun into Canada as an American for IDPA, IPSC, other shooting type competitions. There is paperwork you have to fill out and get an appropriate temporary license from the Canadians. You can only take basically a handgun that has at least a four and a quarter inch barrel. Anything less is 'prohibited' for Americans to take in for matches across the border.

As far as a temporary transport permit to take your handgun through Canada to Alaska, contact the Canadian Firearms Centre. It still must have a 4.25 inch min barrel either way. Self defense is generally not a good enough reason for foreigners to take handguns across the border.

Paperwork must be filled out way in advance for handguns. I believe long guns are easier. If you can borrow a pump shotgun that would be nicer for bear protection/transport to Alaska. I've heard people get temp licenses on the spot at the border for long guns. Again call Canadian Firearms Center.

You'll also have to fill out a Customs/ATF type form to get your gun back into Alaska to declare. No big deal though. Good luck and stay safe. Also look into shipping/FedExing your pistol to you in Alaska...driving with a shotgun across Canada for bears/slugs/buckshot when you get to Alaska. Lots of bears where you're heading to!

Oh there are the Scout Rifle/Shotgun combos that break down easy and the Marlin Papoose 22 rifles, and the Henry Survivor breakdown airman 22 rifle that is also take apart that might be easy on a motorcycle. A 22 rifle might come in handy if a shotgun is hard to break down. Put it together in camp. 22 rifle might be easy to take since you are camping in Canada and Alaska. The papoose and Henry survivor airman breakdown rifles are pretty inexpensive and can be put in backpacks.

JohnD13
January 20, 2011, 08:56 AM
How about sending your handgun ahead to an FFL in Alaska? Pick it up when you arrive and send it home the same way. A few bucks spent would work out better than trying to deal with Canadian firearms laws.

Buck Snort
January 21, 2011, 09:47 AM
I just flat DO NOT GO TO CANADA because of their draconian gun laws. I'd really like to, there's lots of great things to see there but it just ain't gonna happen.

scaatylobo
January 21, 2011, 04:43 PM
Best you could hope for is a takedown S/S 12 bore or such that might be allowed .

I live on that border and was LEO and am not allowed to go there armed at all,unless its for hunting and you need a license .

They do NOT allow HG's for S/D under any circumstances - even if your a Canadian LEO.

I am taking a second trip to the U.P. of Michigan and have to go around through Ohio to avoid getting arrested.Going through Canada would save me 3 hours = not worth the hassle.

rodregier
January 21, 2011, 06:37 PM
Just to calibrate your expectations, if you somehow actually managed to lawfully arrange to have a handgun available for self-defense in Canada, this is the kind of reception from local LEOs and prosecuters you will likely encounter:


http://www.nationalpost.com/faces+jail+protecting+home+from+masked+attackers/4141704/story.html

oneounceload
January 21, 2011, 07:33 PM
I just flat DO NOT GO TO CANADA because of their draconian gun laws. I'd really like to, there's lots of great things to see there but it just ain't gonna happen.

That's fairly myopic as to why to not visit someplace - guess you'll exist in your own little world

OP - if you are going to AK, ship the gun ahead......or do the paperwork for a shotgun - a little easier to transport

DenaliPark
January 21, 2011, 07:57 PM
Regarding the op, you may bring your shotgun, if it conforms to the law, you will never be allowed to bring in the pistol, and it will land you in a deep pile of manure if you attempt it anyway...And yes, a 9mm pistol for defense from big dangerous game, will get you laughed at up here, as I am now...:)

GRIZ22
January 21, 2011, 08:48 PM
I live on that border and was LEO and am not allowed to go there armed at all,

Why should you? Canada is a different country. Would you expect to be able to go to Mexico, France, the Bahamas, or any other country and be able to carry.

Canada used to allow US Citizens transit through Canada enroute to Alaska with handguns. Canadian Customs would put a seal on your handgun case when you entered Canada and when you were leaving Canada going into Alaska you were supposed show them the seal wasn't broken and turn in the paperwork to show the guns left Canada. The problem was many people wouldn't bother to stop at Canadian Customs to show them the guns wre exported and just drive into Canada. The Canadians could only assume that all these guns were being left in Canada and changed the law to make it no handguns.

Sometimes gunowners screw up a good thing.

Skylerbone
January 21, 2011, 08:48 PM
Sending a pistol to Alaska won't help the OP while traveling through Canada...unless the wildlife there has been tamed as much as Canadians have.

Travel without food, bring lots of bear spray and make sure to sleep near a big fire, preferably at a Holiday Inn.

david58
January 21, 2011, 10:04 PM
Don't even try it! I've heard of several U.S. citizens crossing into Canada being asked if they have a gun? Canadian customs has been known to take cars apart looking for drugs; I don't doubt that they would do it if looking for a gun.
It does happen. I know someone that was threatened with detention just for having some spent .22 casings in the trunk of their car - no gun, just casings.

oneounceload
January 22, 2011, 07:42 PM
And don't have any of the typical gun stickers on your car, or they'll give a thorough going over

KsThumper
January 23, 2011, 02:03 PM
General Information - Firearm Users Visiting Canada (http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/fs-fd/visit-visite-eng.htm)

There are three classes of firearms in Canada:

Non-restricted (most common rifles and shotguns): These may generally be imported for purposes such as hunting, protection from wild animals in remote wilderness areas where firearms are allowed, or target-shooting. They may also be taken in transit through Canada by a reasonably direct route.

Restricted: (longer-barreled handguns, some types of long guns) These are allowed for certain purposes, such as target shooting at an approved club or range, but they are not allowed for hunting or self protection.

Prohibited: (shorter-barreled handguns, automatic weapons) These cannot be brought into Canada.


Non-restricted firearms may be brought into, transported within Canada and taken in-transit to Alaska upon completion on a Non-Resident Firearm Declaration. The Non-Resident Firearm Declaration form and $25 CAN are presented to Canadian Customs at the boarder crossing. The Declaration is valid for 60-days.

Form CAFC 909 - Non-Resident Firearm Declaration (http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/form-formulaire/num-nom/909-eng.htm)

Definition of Restricted Firearms (http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/fs-fd/restr-eng.htm) [Firearm barrel length between 105 mm and 470 mm = 18.5 inches]

Definition of Prohibited Firearms (http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/fs-fd/prohibited-prohibe-eng.htm) [Handgun barrel length less than 105 mm = 4.14 inches]

List of Restricted and Prohibited Firearms (http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/fs-fd/rp-eng.htm)

Restricted and Prohibited firearms [handguns] brought into Canada and transported within a Province for transit to Alaska require an Authorization to Transport from the Chief Firearms Officer of each Province or Territory. Generally, authorization to transit Restricted and Prohibited firearms is not granted or allowed.

Form CAFC 679 - Application for an Authorization to Transport Restricted Firearms and Prohibited Firearms (http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/form-formulaire/pdfs/679-eng.pdf)

Saskatchewan does not allow Restricted or Prohibited firearms to transit through their Province. They do allow Restricted or Prohibited firearms to be brought into the Province, used for competition and then leave.

To talk with the Chief Firearms Office for other Provinces call 1-800-731-4000 and enter these extensions when prompted:

Manitoba = ext. 8502

Alberta and Northwest Territories = ext. 9026

British Columbia and Yukon = ext. 9530

At all times it is critical to follow the transportation and storage rules.

Storing, Transporting and Displaying Firearms (http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/fs-fd/storage-entreposage-eng.htm)

Old Shooter
January 23, 2011, 02:45 PM
Just curious, would it be possible for a non-resident to purchase one of those non-restricted firearms at a Canadian gun shop and then proceed with it to Alaska?

altitude_19
January 23, 2011, 03:13 PM
OP - if you are going to AK, ship the gun ahead......or do the paperwork for a shotgun - a little easier to transport
That's a little "myopic"...he said he'd be on a motorcycle and wouldn't have room for a long gun. And go easy on the personal jabs. If somebody thinks draconian self defense laws are a good enough reason not to visit a given country, you are in no position to fault him.

rodregier
January 23, 2011, 03:34 PM
Old Shooter (and others):

To my knowledge, you would need a Canadian firearm license to make a purchase of a firearm in Canada. There are a few non-residents who have such licenses, but your average tourist would be out of luck. The paperwork that "gun travellers" get at the border would not be sufficient for making further firearm purchases. It *is* sufficient to permit ammunition purchases.

If you're serious about having a firearm along (legally), pick a small(ish) manually operated long gun and jump thru the hoops at the border. Having a casual hunting goal that you can clearly articulate to officials on demand would be good, since Canadian officialdom is not a big fan of defensive use of firearms. (Even if it is permitted in Canadian law.)

I would strongly encourage anyone residing in the USA to read this web site if you are considering any lawful activity involving firearms in Canada. It is fabuously well researched:

http://panda.com/canadaguns/

Oh, and if you bought a firearm in Canada, allow at least 4-6 weeks for BATF import paperwork to import it into the USA. (Alaska included).

Norinco firearms are sold in Canada too, but BATF won't permit their import :-) We especially like their short-barreled pump action shotguns. Similar units are AOW in the US, but are non-restricted in Canada. The details of the firearm laws in Canada and the USA are similar but not exactly the same.

Tomcat47
January 23, 2011, 04:16 PM
Seems like lets say a .... Marlin .444 / .45-70 would be allowed!

You would not need much else, and you would probably not even need it. But just in case you would have it.

We are planning a fishing trip in June and I liked the forms that were in this post. Done downloaded them.

Thanks KsThumper... One need not much more info than your post contains!

rodregier
January 23, 2011, 04:27 PM
That Marlin would certainly look like a good choice for ursine encounters :-)

The web page I suggested has some wonderful tips on how to safely interact with the Canadian Border and Security Agency staff.

longknife12
January 23, 2011, 05:50 PM
I've got a Mountie buddy in BC.....we have an understanding.....when he and wife visits the states, he shoots mine....on the rare visit I make, I shoot his. Neither one of us does the transport thing!
As to his shooting at my range, common sense prevails....most of the LEO's there think it's great to shoot with him!
Dan

Sunray
January 23, 2011, 06:26 PM
"...bringing my 9mm handgun..." Forget it. There's no CCW in Canada. And you won't get our permits for self-defense. Don't try to smuggle it in either.

Tomcat47
January 23, 2011, 06:35 PM
A 9MM Would be pointless against a Grizzly Attack for sure.

You might as well Slather yourself in Honey! :eek:

And I am not dissing your 9MM either! I Love my 9's,

But in the words of Harry Callahan: " A Man has to know his limitations "

Including carrying a handgun in Canada! :)

oneounceload
January 23, 2011, 06:48 PM
That's a little "myopic"...he said he'd be on a motorcycle and wouldn't have room for a long gun. And go easy on the personal jabs. If somebody thinks draconian self defense laws are a good enough reason not to visit a given country, you are in no position to fault him.

Refusing to visit all of the other countries in the world because you can't carry/transport/own a firearm IS myopic...............there IS a little more to life than the US and its gun culture..........

altitude_19
January 23, 2011, 10:50 PM
Refusing to visit all of the other countries in the world because you can't carry/transport/own a firearm IS myopic...............there IS a little more to life than the US and its gun culture..........
Yes, surely throwing money to oppressive governments so you can see the sights is the way to ensure the RTKBA spreads outside of our borders. A man is nothing without his principles...don't fault a guy for having them.

Tomcat47
January 23, 2011, 10:59 PM
Personally I feel OUR RTKBA keeps them safe and sound in the shroud of Freedom.

My Opinion!

altitude_19
January 23, 2011, 11:42 PM
My Opinion!
And I will never say you're wrong for it.

langenc
January 24, 2011, 12:09 AM
""I just flat DO NOT GO TO CANADA because of their draconian gun laws. I'd really like to, there's lots of great things to see there but it just ain't gonna happen."" from Snorting Buck-#9


Ditto-Stay home or hop the Alaska Ferry line and skip Canada for your proposed trip. Could get off at Haines and I think after that that it is USA all the way. Home-just backtrack. They dont trust us-keep our $$$ out.

Tomcat47
January 24, 2011, 12:22 AM
^^^ Thats a good thought too ^^^

Wonder if there is Canada like fishing around maybe MI or Maine? LOL

Thats for another Thread tho' lets not high jack this thread!

Stay on Subject....Sorry! :eek:

AlaskaMan
January 24, 2011, 01:01 AM
Ditto-Stay home or hop the Alaska Ferry line and skip Canada for your proposed trip. Could get off at Haines and I think after that that it is USA all the way. Home-just backtrack.

Haines is a beautiful town, however you have to drive through Canada (the Yukon) to get to the rest of Alaska. There is no place served by the AMHS (Alaska Marine Highway System) that will enable you to by pass Canadian Customs. The only part of mainland Alaska the ferry service reaches is Skagway and Haines.

razorback2003
January 24, 2011, 02:04 AM
Take a look at the old combo 410/22 Scout gun. Those fold up and are pretty slick. Another nice gun is the Marlin Papoose 22LR carbine that the barrel screws off and even comes with a floating carry case. Henry has the old air force AR 7 22 rifle. It is a break down 22 rifle that you can put the barrel in the stock. Those should be legal in Canada without a lot of hassle, since they are hunting type long guns.

I keep up with IDPA and you can go up there for a shoot with the right paperwork. You can't just cruise around with your pistol in your vehicle when you go up for a match, even unloaded. This transport permit gives you permission seems to let an American take the handgun directly to the match (in the lockbox) and back say to your hotel. Very strict. I have a feeling the Canadians will rake you over the coals with a pistol up there violating their transport papers as in laying the gun on the dash and having it loaded like many Americans think is normal! Nice big fine and bye bye to your pistol and never go back to Canada EVER!

Go the compact Marlin Papoose (very inexpensive) or Henry AR 7 route. They're both nice compact 22 rifles that don't seem to have the strict restrictions on going to and from the gun club junk that handguns do in Canada (for those that can legally take one up there for IDPA/IPSC).

If nothing else get you some Canadian legal bear spray. That is powerful stuff and a good straight 3-4 inch blade hunting knife. You'll be good to go. Have a great time...and have your pistol FedExed to a friend/where you're going to Alaska.

gobysky
January 24, 2011, 04:44 PM
Refusing to visit all of the other countries in the world because you can't carry/transport/own a firearm IS myopic...............there IS a little more to life than the US and its gun culture..........

I wish it was that simple. Once a government outlaws guns, then comes other threats to the freedoms we hold so dearly. Freedom of speech is one of them. Canada has tampered with that one too.

Carne Frio
January 24, 2011, 05:55 PM
For those traveling to Alaska, via Canada:
I just talked to my local FFL and he told me that
he has people ship through your ffl to Alaska ffl.
That way your shipping your gun to yourself, via
legal channels. He told me that he does this all
of the time for hunters and tourists who do not
want to drive or fly them up here, yet still have a
gun to use when they get here.

AlaskaMan
January 24, 2011, 08:00 PM
For the record, Canada only allows small arms ammunition for hunting purposes, not to exceed 200 rounds

http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/publications/pub/bsf5044-eng.html
The important part for non-residents traveling through Canada to Alaska or back to the lower 48...
Within these limits, non-residents can import 200 rounds duty free for hunting purposes, or up to 1,500 rounds duty free for use at a recognized competition.
According to the helpfull folks at Canadian Border Services Agency the recognized competition has to be occuring in Canada. Traveling from the lower 48 to Alaska does not count. (I'm traveling from Alaska to the lower 48 for a competion and that is a no go as well, and I'm a current LEO):(

Earlier threads that mentioned transporting 5,000 rounds were erroneous (unless you are a Canadian and the ammunition is remaining in Canada)

bruzer
January 24, 2011, 11:09 PM
DO NOT TRAVEL INTO CANADA WITH A PISTOL!!! If you choose too make sure you take a picture of your motorcycle before they strip it to the ground. That way you will at least have a picture of what it should look like after they get done with it. My Aunt has a real nice story of them tearing apart her motor-home after she told them she had a 22 pistol on board.
Mike

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