[Jaywalker]

I'm thinking of buying a Win M70 6.5X55, despite its funny schnabel stock and gloriously silly looking checkering pattern.

First, do those of you who have them feel silly when other people see them?

Second, is this a long or a short action in the M70? I know they're normally considered long action cartridges, but they aren't really very long, and the USRAC spec page shows them as weighing the same as the shorter .308-based cartridges, lighter than the 30-06 set.

Third, is it hard to shoot a small group when you're giggling over the appearance of the rifle?

Jaywalker

[Colt46]

They aren't that common and don't come up on the market that often. I'm looking for one myself. I agree with you on asthetics but, as someone who carried a Remington 81 for several deer seasons, it's accuracy and mild recoil should make it a favorite during hunting season. It seems quite common for manufacturerers to use a long action when chambering the swede. Whether Winchester does I'm not certain.
Good luck,
I hate the Fleur De Lisle checkering pattern too.

[MLC]

I thought over the Winchester and went with the CZ 550 American.
I haven't shot it yet, relaoding dies are not in yet, but topped it off with a Kahles 3-9x42.
The CZ comes with an adjustable trigger, factory free floated barrel and a true Mauser action. It isn't a lightweight but should make for a superb deer rifle and fun shooter.
I got mine from the "CZ Connection" they advertise just about all the CZ ads on gunbroker.com. I paid $461 shipped plus FFL transfer. All the CZ rifles come with factory test targets .:cool:
On the aesthetics note I think the M70 FWT is somewhat attractive.
http://www.ssaa.org.au/OFFICIALREVIEWS/243boltcentrefire/Win70feather.jpg

VS

http://www.cz-usa.com/product.img/18.jpg

[JohnKSa]

despite its funny schnabel stock and gloriously silly looking checkering pattern.
I've always kind of liked the way they looked...

[Kestrel]

I find the stock of the Featherweight to look nice. I do think the checkering is cheap, though. Just pressed.

Steve

[daniel501]

FWIW, the checkering on the Featherweights I've handled is cut checkering in nice walnut. Really a nice looking gun -- I'd almost hate to do anything with it for fear of the inevitable dings and scratches. If I ever get one, it would have to be a used one with the dings and scratches already there.

[Jaywalker]

daniel501: Really a nice looking gun -- I'd almost hate to do anything with it for fear of the inevitable dings and scratches. If I ever get one, it would have to be a used one with the dings and scratches already there. Self-delusion is nice, isn't it? :D Here I was choosing this model because it was so fugly, I don't have to worry about dinging it. Sand down the dings, and if I get too happy with the sandpaper and wipe out the checkering... well. that's just an added bonus.

FWIW, all schnabels aren't bad. The FWT just has an unbalanced look to it, while the Compact has a nice-looking schnabel and better-looking checkering.

MLC, the CZ's were just a little too heavy for me, and I didn't care for them. No reason really. Stock was too long? Maybe. How did you manage to post two pics in the same thread?

Jaywalker

[JohnBT]

And I've always flatout liked the look of the Featherweights. Nothing wrong with a little styling - it's like sticking a feather in your hunting cap or having a drink around the fire out of a silver flask instead of the plastic pint bottle it came in. Now, the it's-gotta-be-tactical-or-nothing guys might have a problem because the Featherweight isn't all black or camo or something, but I don't pay them any mind anyhow.

About those CZ test targets...the guns usually shoot better than the targets that comes with them. I still want to know how they shoot test targets with guns that don't have sights. Do you figure they mount a scope on every gun or do they put the barreled action in vise like Kimber (which proves nothing to me about how the gun shoots when it's screwed together)? I dunno, they're probably just shot for function, but I like mine.

John

[Jaywalker]

Here's the Compact, if it attaches this time:

[mtnbkr]

Are you talking about the Compact or the Featherweight?

I have the Featherweight in 6.5x55 and I love it. I've never considered what others at the range or camp think of it. I had to float the barrel since it was not even centered in the stock (pressure on the left hand side of the barrel all the way down, but open on the right side). I also had to work on the trigger to get it the way I want.

As far as shooting poor groups due to giggling, I had no problem shooting a .265" group at 50yds (averaging .3" - .4" at 50) after bedding the action.

In 6.5x55, it's a long action.

FWIW, I love this gun. I may have found "The One". :D

Assuming I never get to buy a Mannlicher-Shoenauer in 6.5x54...

Chris

[MLC]

John BT,
My test target was sub MOA with 2 shots overlapping.
I am very excited to get some loads worked up.
The Lapua brass is on the way,
I think the dies need some poking as I haven't heard back from the seller.
Jaywalker, If you handload there are quite a few good recipes over at accurate reloading (http://www.accuratereloading.com/65smauser.html).
The 6.5x55 definitely has a reputation for accuracy.

[Swamprabbit]

I love that caliber and I wouldn't worry about the style of the stock. Just shoot it and enjoy!

[Jaywalker]

mtnbkr,
I wondered when you'd weigh in. I see you're still in self-denial about the appearance of your rifle, though. That's the trouble with people these days - so much regard for pure deep-down function and not enough on shallow surface appearance. :D

I'm talking about the Fwt, since the Compact only houses .308-class cartridges. I just wish the Fwt looked more like the Compact.

Even so, I fine myself thinking that the schnable may actually suit the 6.5X55.

Of course, it may just be that my taste has started to go down the long, slippery slope...

Jaywalker

[MLC]

Jaywalker you have a pm.

[Kestrel]

What would you hunt with the 6.5x55? What other calibers do the ballistics compare to?

Thanks,
Steve

[MLC]

With factory ammo it is almost a twin to the .260 Remington.
It has a longer case, overall length and a bit more capacity than the .260 so you can load the loooong heavy bullets to higher velocities.
It is ideal for deer with 120 and 140 grain bullets.
Quite a few Scandinavian Moose are taken with the 6.5 swede anually.

[mtnbkr]

I wondered when you'd weigh in. I see you're still in self-denial about the appearance of your rifle, though. That's the trouble with people these days - so much regard for pure deep-down function and not enough on shallow surface appearance

You got it backwards, I'm smitten with the appearance. Performance was a close second in this case :D

Even so, I fine myself thinking that the schnable may actually suit the 6.5X55. Of course, it may just be that my taste has started to go down the long, slippery slope

Next thing you know, you'll be shopping from the Filsons and Woolrich catalogs and becoming mildly amused at the brutes who think they need a magnum for deer. :p

Chris

[tbige]

Not to muddy the water, but the Winchester doesn't hold a candle to a Tikka. Why would you want to pay for the floating and trigger job Winchester should have done on top of what you pay for the gun?

[cratz2]

I agree on the Tikka... supurb rifle for the money. I always say they're 90% of a Sako at under half the cost.

The Winchester Model 70 Compact is a real looker as are the CZs with the nicer wood. But my money would go towards a Tikka or a used Sako.

[daniel501]

Those new Tikkas are gawd awful ugly. Why couldn't they leave well enough alone? The previous generation looked fine. I'd just as soon have a 70 featherweight with a few dings and scratches. Give me a schnabel any day.

[Jaywalker]

Tikka is functionally good - to risk raising some hackles, I'd say Tikka is what Remington should be right now. I don't care for the stock, though, and it's not just the "fugly" retro look of the M70 Fwt - it just feels cheap and is too long; YMMV. They only come in long actions, and I like them a little shorter. While I don't much care about the Push Feed/Controlled Round Feed issue, I do like the blade ejector on the Win and Sako. While the trigger is adjustable, I understand there's no adjustment that removes creep. They have a tricky recoil lug that works fine as it sits, but makes me hesitate to mess with it in bedding and such. Again, Tikka is good, but not perfect, and offers little room for home improvements. Also, Tikka stocks are like most Euro stocks, much too long for me, and I don't want to start my home improvement project on something that shows - like a pull length reduction.

Having just bought a Win M70 Classic LT, I have to say that I believe people are under-rating it lately. With minor work the trigger can be made excellent, and I'm talking about minor "unpaid" work. I'm about to launch into my first action-bedding effort, and the excellent finish on the unseen parts of the M70 gives me confidence that I won't end up with an action iretrievably stuck in the stock when I inevitably screw something up. Winchester Customer Service ("Teri") confirms that the 6.5X55 is indeed housed in their "short action." (Some short actions are longer than others, and some "long" cartridges are shorter than others, and the 6.5X55, at only 4mm longer than the .308-class cartridges, seems to fit well in the M70 short action.)

I've looked at Sako, Kimber, Tikka, Ruger, and Winchester - it really looks to me as if the balance for me is with "the Rifleman's rifle."

Jaywalker

[Mike Irwin]

I've shot MTNBKR's rifle a fair amount.

Darn nice rifle. Lightweight and easy to handle, but the recoil's not objectionable at all.

It could probably be a lot more accurate if he would stop throwing it on the ground, though... :D

[Jaywalker]

Mike Irwin,

Does mtnbkr drop it on the ground due to giggling at its appearance? I knew there was something fishy about his claiming to like its looks...

Jaywalker

Edited to say: I shouldn't complain about people buying on looks. My purchase of the Winchester M70 Classic LT was entirely based upon its appearance in a gunrack; I have no earthly need for a .300 Win Mag. In fact I'm mildly amused at people who use a Magnum on deer and I'm feeling a need for a wool hunting jacket.

If I buy the Fwt, I'll probably use a receiver sight on it in lieu of a scope...

I have a theory why the 6.5s seem to be so accurate. Eutope likes them, and so the makers build a lot of them to high-qual specs. North America makers don't make a lot of them, so the mandrells they use to form the barrels in the hammer-forging process don't get used much and so stay in top condition.

[JNewell]

I would have sworn that the Fwt was only available in long actions, but the catalog says otherwise. I'll bet they tooled up for that after the introduction of the WSM cartridges...would look silly introducing the short cases and then stuffing 'em into long actions...

[Jaywalker]

Nope - they introduced it in 1984. I have the "Shooting Times" review. I think you're right that they introduced a short action WSM recently, though.

Jaywalker

[Mike Irwin]

Jay,

I rather think it has a stylish and classic look to it that's SADLY lacking from the aesthetic monstrosoties that are being made these days.

As to why MTNBKR things it's a basketball....

Beats me.

[mtnbkr]

I drop one rifle...

I'm surprised nobody's accused me of being french :uhoh:

For Sale: One rifle, only dropped once (can't say never fired since I burned 2lbs of powder in reloads alone...). :neener:

Chris

[Mike Irwin]

You're too annoying to be French... :D

You were talking about rebedding it, weren't you?

Did you?

[mtnbkr]

I bedded the rifle after I dropped it since I had the gun apart already for stock repairs. I'm not redoing it any time soon.

Are you thinking of the ugly 30-06? I mentioned that I wanted to bed it just to see how it reacts...

I faht in your general direction you silly eeenglish kaniggits. :neener:

Chris

[tbige]

mtnbkr: You forget your meds this morning?

[mtnbkr]

You're too annoying to be French...

Dunno why that statement made me think of MT The Holy Grail...

Chris

[Mike Irwin]

Fechez la vache!



I knew you bedded it after the big drop, but for some reason I thought you had said you were going to hog it and and redo it as you weren't happy with it.

I guess I wasn't paying attention.

[mtnbkr]

I thought you had said you were going to hog it and and redo it as you weren't happy with it


ooohhhhh, ok. No, what I said (or at least what was running through my brain) was that I could hog it out and rebed it if the shooting results weren't to my liking. I only did a "skim" bed that first time around. However, due to Winchester's loose inletting, I got a lot of glass in there.

Chris

[Mike Irwin]

OK... That makes sense now.

I misinterpreted what you said.

Probably because every time I talk to you I have visions of you sitting on that can of brake parts cleaner... :D

[Jaywalker]

mtnbkr: I only did a "skim" bed that first time around. What's that?

Jaywalker

[Mike Irwin]

"skim bedding" is using only a thin layer of glass that's just smeared over the existing wood.

A more exacting way is to actually remove some wood in certain areas to make absolutely sure that the action is fully supported at all points. It also relieves any potential high points that might tend to warp the action in the stock when the screws are tightened back down.

[mtnbkr]

It's like a normal bedding job except that you don't remove any wood. If the inletting is close enough, you'll have a very thin skim of glass. If it's loose, you'll have more glass, but still less than a regular bedding job. I decided to try that first with the idea that I could always hog it out and do it over. It worked, so I'm not changing it.

Chris

[Jaywalker]

John Barsness had a good article in the November 03 "Rifle" magazine about basic bedding, and I think I'll try out his approaches. My Ruger 77 RL shows tendencies to string, for which he recommends tip-bedding as an easy and often effective approach. I mention this because he wrote that recent Winchesters wouldn't necessarily benefit from such an approach, as their tips don't appear to be in much contact with the barrel. For them, he recommended building up a contact point in the fore-end, if someone wanted fore-end contact.

He mentioned an alternate way to do the "dollar-bill" free floating, rather than to scrape out all that wood in the barrel channel. In this approach, you build up a platform just behind the recoil lug, thereby angling the barrel slightly upwards. You'd still have to remove the fore-end contact point, but it would preclude having to remove any more wood. He calculates that that would make about a 4 MOA difference.

I presume from your approaches that it is possible to remove the epoxy if you change your mind; I'd wondered.

Did you remove the hot glue from around the recoil lug? How?

Jaywalker

[mtnbkr]

I left the hot glue in place since, at the time, I felt I was working with an expendable stock (this was right after I dropped it and caused a fair amount of cosmetic damage). I simply wanted to learn how to bed a rifle and see if a quick and dirty job would do anything.

I've since repaired the damage and decided to keep the stock. With the new bedding, groups shrank from .5-.75 at 50yds to .26-.5" at 50yds. It's not a huge improvement, but a nice one nonetheless. Also, the gun's groups do not expand much after the barrel gets hot and dirty. Prior, after 10 shots or so, I was getting 1" groups at 50yds.

The action is unstressed as far as I can tell. I can loosen either action screw and retighten it without any perceptible movement of the action, a sign of a pressure point.

Chris

[JStordahl]

Well gents.........I asked the very same question concerning Winchester 70s in 6.5x55 in a long or short action. The answer I received on another forum, by a fellow that had one,is........it comes in a long action. Now can someone measure theirs from the front of the receiver ring to some specific point rearward and tell us.......interested parties really want to know.

I intend to get a 6.5x55 Swede in the Classic Featherweight 70, but they used to make them in the push feed XTR versions, too. Maybe the XTR was a long and the Classic is a short? Who can tell? Get out the rulers, please. Thank you.....your help is appreciated. :D