Colt 38 rimless Info

I have my grandfathers Colt pistol in a 38 rimless. It aslo has a US stamped holster as well.
The Serial No is 287xx.
Here is a few pics of it. Would anyone beable to give me some more info on it.



134597

134598
Thanx for any info.

It is a Colt Model 1903 Pocket Pistol, caliber .38 ACP (not .38 Super). It is often called the Pocket Hammer to distinguish it from the smaller Model 1903 Pocket Hammerless.

They were good guns but have a serious flaw in that they can be fired without the front "wedge" (Colt called it the slide stop) and if so fired the slide will come back in the shooter's face.*

That gun was made in 1912. It has been heavily buffed and reblued so its value is considerably lessened. I would take a WAG at $500 or so.

The holster is a standard WWI type military holster. The gun was never adopted or used by the armed forces, though it could have been carried by a serviceman as a personal weapon.

*To remove that slide stop do NOT try to drive it out; push in on the dished "button" under the muzzle and the slide stop will drop out to the left.

Jim

Thanx Jim for the reply. I dont get on here to often so sorry for the slow response. Now I had talked to my grandfather and he had mentioned that he has owned the pistol for over 60 yrs and he never reblued it or has had it polished so that was the way he has kept it. He has never shot it so it might be possible that it is in this good of shape or not? My great Uncle had carried it in the war so it has been in the family ever since. So at most its quite valuable to me more so than money cause of the family has owned it only. SO again thank you for the info. It is greatly appreciated.
Galen

Looks like it retains the "peacock blue" on the trigger.
If it is original, not reblued, it is worth a lot.

Don't even THINK about putting .38 Super ammunition in it.
I do not know a source for .38 Auto.

.38 Super ACP brass is the same size as .38 ACP, and so are the reloading dies, so it's possible to load up some mild rounds that would work. Just make sure to never feed this old-timer any commercially loaded .38 Super ammunition.

I won't say anyone is wrong, but I will call your attention to the slide markings, like the word "patented" and the Colt legend, which have been almost removed by something. They were not heavily stamped, but certainly will not wear that heavily in normal use and if they do the slide will be worn down and no longer blue.

FWIW, in spite of the markings on guns, the .38 ACP and .32 ACP are not really rimless; they have a small rim in the style that is called "semi-rimmed". Of course they were rimless in comparison with the revolver cartridges of the day.

Jim

Thats a good point Jim about the blueing so it very well could have been reblued. So no matter thoughits still a great find a a good piece of history. Thanx for the info.

So another question for ya Jim, You wouldnt happen to have an idea where to locate 30 Remington ammo? I aquired my grandfathers Model 8 remington rifle and would like to put a couple of rounds thru it, but I am having trouble locating some. I heard they quit making it and mostly now is if some one reloads or has it stashed somewhere. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. Thanx
Galen

I'd give $500 for a reblued .38 that good looking. I don't know why, but that is one of the few cool factor guns left that I admire without an immediate use in mind.

Buffalo Arms lists .30 Remington. Not cheap but it is a small market.
http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/4,4172.html

Well, I did give $400 for a Model 1903 Hammer that had been reblued, though the job is a bit better than that one. In nice condition they bring will over a grand today, and one LNIB would run $6k or so. Mine had a home made firing pin, so I ordered one from Numrich and got a brand new bronze one, in the original waxed cheesecloth wrapping, just like they came from the factory in 1903. Amazing! Talk about "new old stock."

.30 Remington is hard to get. I got some at a gun show a year or so ago just so I could shoot my Standard Model G and see if it worked. (It did, but I wouldn't want to depend on it!)

Jim

Nice looking gun you have there.

I think it is a predecessor to the M1911a1

Article on the ammo:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.38_ACP

And on the gun:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colt_M1903_Pocket_Hammer

I would be delighted to see some pictures of the dual barrel links if you're willing to strip it and break out the camera again.

There was a whole series of locked breech pistols designed by Browning and made by Colt prior to the design and ultimate adoption of the Model 1911 in .45 ACP. Except for those made specifically to address Army concerns/requirements, they used the dual link system and were mostly in .38 ACP. Only the Model 1905 was in .45 ACP.

While Browning reportedly considered his pistols perfectly OK as they were, the Army saw the deficiencies clearly and demanded changes which were (reluctantly?) made by Browning. The first was to a system that would not allow the slide to do in the shooter; others were safety devices and a much simplified takedown scheme. While Browning is correctly given credit for the design of the M1911, major features were the result of Army demands. It is not too much to say that the pistol was a cooperative effort among Browning, Colt, and the various officers who sat on the trial boards. They, together, made a far better pistol than Browning would have on his own.

Jim

I too have a 1903 hammer. It was my great grandfathers and has been passed down since he bought it new. It will go to one of my sons for certain.

When I got mine from my dad it had not been shot in 50+ years and the magazine was missing. I managed to locate a magazine and clean up the pistol a bit. Unfortunately, mine had been stored since new in a similar leather holster. There is only about 40-50% of the original bluing on mine.

Mine is marked .38 rimless smokeless. After much research I too found that this round was the forerunner of the .38 Super but they are WAY different in terms of ballistics / power.

I have a 38 Super so I loaded up 125 g bullets using load data for 38 special in some .38 super brass guessing that would get me close. It worked fine. Amazingly this gun feeds HP and LRN bullets no problem. It is very reliable but, in my case, not so accurate.

I don't shoot it much but it was a hoot to have my dad shoot it after getting it from his grandfather and never shooting it!

Enjoy,

JD

I do like mine and do still have a few boxes of factory ammunition for it left over from the 60's. Bought mine with the ammunition.
Nice looking pistol you have and I would guess the price to be around 1k.