Talk with a current Marine and TSA madness


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hillbilly
December 31, 2003, 11:32 AM
Just before Christmas, I got to meet for two hours with a former student of mine who is now in the US Marine Corps.

He's the only Mongolian in the Marine Corps. His name is Hos.

Had a great visit, saw lots of pictures, heard lots of stories about going into Baghdad.

He has to go back sometime around Feb. for 6 to 9 more months....you know, being vague for security purposes, plus he's not sure himself exactly when he's going back.

Anyway, one story he told me put me on the floor. The USMC used civilian airliners to ferry troops back home after their tour was done. He told of huge receptions at San Diego with cheering crowds, and handshakes all around.

But what was funny was the bit about the TSA Nazis.

They searched all the Marines getting onto the flight for nail clippers, small scissors, and other small, bladed instrumentts, but allowed the Marines on with their small arms---M-16s, M-9s, etc. etc.

Paging Barney Fife, paging Barney Fife. You're needed at gate 11. Barney Fife, report to gate 11, it's a matter of utmost double-secret-probationary National Security.

How Long, Oh Lord, must we suffer the expensive idiocy of the TSA???????

hillbilly

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RAY WOODROW 3RD
December 31, 2003, 11:35 AM
The TSA is here to stay. I only see it expanding. Are you ready for TSA road check points?

Just my .02

geekWithA.45
December 31, 2003, 11:45 AM
I don't believe I've ever read the law that is the root authority to search airliner passengers, nor have I ever seen the result of the innevitable constitutional challenge to it on the basis of the 4th amendment....any legal scholars out there got the links?

Leatherneck
December 31, 2003, 11:58 AM
Sad to say, but Marines have always been prone to "scrounging cool stuff" in combat zones, and the authorities know that. I'll bet the searches turned up more contraband than the average flight of citizens anywhere in the rest of the USA.

That's not in defense of TSA or searching US citizens, Marine or not.

Imagine Hos's trip home: start out in-theater with a ride to the airhead in a chopper armed for bear; end up in Hometown USA being strip-searched by the goons of TSA. :fire:

TC
TFL Survivor

riverdog
December 31, 2003, 12:23 PM
They searched all the Marines getting onto the flight for nail clippers, small scissors, and other small, bladed instrumentts, but allowed the Marines on with their small arms---M-16s, M-9s, etc. etc. K-Bar knives??

These TSA stories are great, sorta like tales from the front. We have met the enemy and it is us. Every story justifies why I haven't set foot in a commercial airport since 9/11. I used to fly 4 times a year; now I drive -- it's much more pleasant.

wingman
December 31, 2003, 12:29 PM
Consumers hold the key, "money" stop all travel via commerical airlines unless its an emergency.:cuss:

Waitone
December 31, 2003, 01:19 PM
It is traditional for war fighters to bring home mementos. Some go "bang" or "whoosh" or "pfsssst." Makes sense to me to search.

However, TSA-mandated treatment is a bit much.

TSA as it is currently configured has numbered days. The airline industry is in deep yogurt and getting worse. Alot of the problems are based on bad business decisions. However, the TSA is creating the most customer unfriendly environment possible. Airlines will figure it out and will adopt to the new business reality. One step in the process will be to tell fed.gov to go pound sand. TSA will change because it is a cause for financial trouble in the airlines. And we all know we can't inconvenience corporations.

RAY WOODROW 3RD
December 31, 2003, 01:42 PM
Quote:
General question....
I don't believe I've ever read the law that is the root authority to search airliner passengers, nor have I ever seen the result of the innevitable constitutional challenge to it on the basis of the 4th amendment....any legal scholars out there got the links?


I was told by a friend who is a high ranking customs officer up in Newark that TSA gets around your "rights" by not being a sworn officer. An officer would have to have cause to search or detain you. TSA does not and the officers hate them for having that power.

No link or law for ya, just straight from one of the horses mouths.

Standing Wolf
December 31, 2003, 05:06 PM
Saddam Hussein is in custody. Norman Mineta isn't.

Waitone
December 31, 2003, 05:28 PM
I was told by a friend who is a high ranking customs officer up in Newark that TSA gets around your "rights" by not being a sworn officer. An officer would have to have cause to search or detain you. And that, sir, is a danger to outsourcing law enforcement tasks to private security agencies. As private companies they are not concerned with hinderances like due process and probable cause, etc. Area 51 has perimeter security provided by a private corporation. Bounty hunters are very useful to LE because they work on contingency and because they are not hindered by law.

Here in my hometown we had a problem with drivers running red ligts. So city council hires a company to install cameras at key interestions which take pictures of cars running red lights. License is snapped and flat $50 fine is mailed out. No court hearing, no points, insurance company is not notified. Failure to pay the fine results in a nast note being placed in you credit report because the fine is payed to the company which ownes the cameras.

Program is so successful it will be expanded to radar camers. Speed, get photo'd, issued a bill, no points, no court, no insurance reports, nasty note on your credit report and no appeal.

I don't like it one little bit.

hillbilly
December 31, 2003, 06:38 PM
I was flipping through Hos' pictures, and I paused on one.

I looked at it a second, and said, "Hey, is that Kid Rock you're shaking hands with there in the barracks tent?"

"Yep," said Hos.

The same packet of photos showed him patroling in Baghdad, shaking hands with Kid Rock, visiting his parents in Mongolia along with the three-star Marine Lt. General who went with him when Hos was welcomed back as a national hero of Mongolia.

Quite a life Hos has had........

hillbilly

MicroBalrog
December 31, 2003, 06:41 PM
Sad to say, but Marines have always been prone to "scrounging cool stuff" in combat zones, and the authorities know that

Sad?:banghead:

BowStreetRunner
December 31, 2003, 06:55 PM
the only logic for the TSA confiscation of small pointy things and such and the leaving of government issued small arms is that you can "lose"knives, nail clippers, etc, on the plane, either accidentally or intentionally, thereby creating a "hazard" on the plane which is past their checkpoints
i guess they would be thinking that a m-16 is harder to mislay
that still doesnt make their search right
i think our soldiers deserve more credit than that
BSR

MicroBalrog
December 31, 2003, 07:05 PM
i guess they would be thinking that a m-16 is harder to mislay

They should be told about the 250-liter water tank...:D

AZRickD
December 31, 2003, 07:48 PM
"you can "lose"knives, nail clippers, etc, on the plane,"

Nope, still doesn't make sense. The Federal Air Marshmallows can (and other LEOS have) lost hand guns in planes.

Rick

4v50 Gary
December 31, 2003, 10:15 PM
TSA may not have powers to detain/arrest, but they have the authority to levy fines. Read the post about the one fellow who was fined $1,600 for not declaring his declared AR. I hope he wins and sues the snot out of TSA.

TarpleyG
January 1, 2004, 12:18 AM
Last time I flew commercial for USMC, we were delivered to the aircraft via bus directly on the tarmac. No TSA, no anything. We took all our gear either on us or in the belly switching records as well. Two planes. One pane gets records of the other plane's passengers, etc.

Anyway, this was an all marine flight, these may not be. Maybe some civilians on board too.

GT

NukemJim
January 1, 2004, 01:15 AM
The TSA is here to stay. I only see it expanding. Are you ready for TSA road check points?

That is very interesting and scary thought. From my understandingthey also have control over security for busses and trains. I could imagine them taking over "security" on the Interstate system first and then work their their way down. (may in fact be seeing now from initial reports out of NYC for tonights celebration ).

All to protect the people.

Scary.

IMHO much scarier than the terrorists in the long run.

NukemJim

BowStreetRunner
January 1, 2004, 01:47 AM
AZRickD
it doesnt have to make sense :)
its the TSA!

Fly320s
January 1, 2004, 10:07 AM
I was told by a friend who is a high ranking customs officer up in Newark that TSA gets around your "rights" by not being a sworn officer. An officer would have to have cause to search or detain you.

That does not sound correct to me.

The reason we are all free to be searched inside the secure area of an airport is because we have given our permission to do so by way of argreeing to the conditions printed on the back of your boarding pass/ticket. Have you ever read those notices?

Just like the local court house doesn't need probable cause to search you via metal detectors and X-ray machines when you enter the courthouse.

We give our consent to be searched when we choose to enter the secured area. Ever listen to the announcements made via the P.A. system in an airport? "All passengers and bags are subject to search" or something like that.

You have the right to remain secure in your possessions until you entered the secured area.

I don't like it either, but I tolerate it, for now.

Brian Dale
January 1, 2004, 03:25 PM
I agree with what Fly320s has written, and would add a bit more: since airlines are private companies and airports are more or less, kinda-sorta like their private property (whatever the actual ownership), the Feds, as well as local governments, have happily used that notion as they've created all kinds of hoops for the traveling public to jump through if they wish to travel by air. The airlines' procedures are intimately tied to the Feds' wishes, and we've ignored being treated like cattle in exchange for the convenience of air travel.

There's a lot of history and momentum there, from the "no more CCW on airline flights" of the 1970s to the absurd rigamarole of the present day. I hope you don't mind if I quote you, geekWithA.45:Until every flight over American airspace has a trustworthy armed American aboard, domestic security initiatives are entirely posturing, pretense, and [what comes out of the North end of a southbound bull].I hope you don't mind that I edited for Art's Grandmaw; the principle is sound. What we have now is a huge, expensive mechanism for posturing and pretense on the part of those who have arrogated to themselves the responsibility for our security.

Flying's just no fun any more. One day, we'll be over our national grief and shock enough to stop jumping every time a bunch of pre-industrial bandits shake their AK47s. A while back, Bill Whittle wrote, Me, personally, I'll take an American flag on the moon over free health care. I can buy health care. I wish to hell I could go to the moon. (Some of us in the Mojave desert may still have few tricks up our sleeve on this one. We're still free to build airplanes and spacecraft and fly the g*ddam* things. From our garages. Try and keep up with a nation that builds working spacecraft in the garage. As a hobby. For FUN.)Nothing has changed who we are. Let's remember that.

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