Bean counter question...


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gilgomesjr
January 24, 2011, 10:37 AM
Okay... Firstly I'm not a big bean counter fan. Even though my wife used to be a cost accountant... :neener:

I've put together a spreadsheet to show how much I'm saving reloading and how it's paying off all the hardware I keep needing to buy. ;)

I've included everything that goes into making a round, including media for the tumbler, pro-rated for each type of round. (Except of course for labor... It's part of a hobby... so...)

I'm currently only reloading .45ACP and 9mm, and will eventually do .38 Special.

Including everything brings the price of the reloaded round up quite a bit. (I need to buy bullets in bulk, obviously, as that's where most of the dollars hide.

My question is... Since I'm not including any of the hardware in the price of reloading each round and am just subtracting how much I'm saving from the hardware cost... Is that a viable approach from an accounting standpoint?

Also... Can I look at this from a different perspective? Can I keep ALL expenses in one bucket and subtract the actual market value of what's produced from that? :confused:

Tanx...
-Gillis

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Rollis R. Karvellis
January 24, 2011, 11:19 AM
Can I look at this from a different perspective? Don't bother trying to justafy cost, eventuly, you will be thinking, the kid's don't need to eat everyday. So just enjoy your new life.

ExMachina
January 24, 2011, 11:27 AM
My experience on DIY hobbies: you NEVER "save" money ;)

Why? For me (and I think most people) I simply have a "hobby budget" that gets spent no matter what. If your hobby is shooting and reloading, then whatever money you save on a round-for-round basis, you will then spend on either a)more equipment or b)more rounds shot.

ngnrd
January 24, 2011, 12:25 PM
So... how do you plan to account for the fact that you wouldn't be shooting as much if you had to buy your ammo off the shelf?

I suggest that you put the calculator away and just enjoy your hobby.

RandyP
January 24, 2011, 01:02 PM
You will NEVER 'save' any money on any leisure activity for which you have to open your wallet. You WILL save money by only engaging in hobbies that are free. And shooting is surely not one of the free ones - LOL - In fairness nobody ever saved their money by spending it.

Reading books and watching movies you get from the library are pretty low cost hobbies. So is walking in the woods (discounting bear attacks or worn out hiking boots).

Reloading for me, and I suspect everyone else, lets me shoots more rounds per dollar, but either way I blow the money. My indoor range fees are set at $25 per visit.

788Ham
January 24, 2011, 01:10 PM
You buy firearms to save money? You have to shoot them to enjoy them right? Eating is kind of a need also, you go to the market and buy grub, you spend monies there correct? For me, its getting into the basement to reload, build up a reserve of ammo to take to the range, so, when you shoot these reloaded rounds, you're basically "throwing money away!", am I wrong in this so far?
Go shoot your firearms, enjoy them and reload, and buy the new toys needed to keep up with your reloading.......... or get a bigger jar to keep the beans in. JMHO

918v
January 24, 2011, 01:24 PM
The joy of assembling your own ammunition cannot be quantified.




You can't put a $ sign on reloading.

James2
January 24, 2011, 01:31 PM
You can count the beans any way you want.
We don't save money by spending it.
I suppose most of us have an amount we can spend for hobbys.
What reloading does is let us shoot more for the buck. At least that was my original goal. There are other benefits as we get into it, like trying different bullets and working up loads more accurate than factory ammo. Plus I enjoy doing it.
As far as the hardware you mention, most of it will last a very long time, perhaps your lifetime. You can just forget to add the cost of hardware to your cost of ammo.
I will end this the way I started it: You can count the beans any way you want.

MrOldLude
January 24, 2011, 01:36 PM
[SIZE="7"]You can't put a $ sign on reloading.

I can and do. I compare the amount of money on a reloading session compared to an equal amount of time spent in a stripclub. In all circumstances, reloading is cheaper. And in both cases, I leave the range/club practically empty-handed. Practically in that I leave with spent brass from the former, glitter and cheap perfume stuck to my face for the latter.

RidgwayCO
January 24, 2011, 01:39 PM
Buy your reloading hardware setup and figure the total cost. Then figure out how much each reloaded round costs for consumables (prorating for things like reusable brass, polishing media, etc). Then subtract the per round consumables cost from the per round cost of factory ammo, this is your "reloading savings per round". Finally, use the savings per round to figure out how many reloaded rounds it will take you to equal the total cost of your reloading hardware setup. Those first rounds cover your "fixed costs", and all subsequent rounds save substantially over factory rounds. Easy, huh? Please understand, however, that you'll likely add "just one more piece of hardware" to your reloading setup, multiple times. That's the way of obsessions...

Or just say, "The hell with it... I LIKE doing this" and have some fun. It's hard to put a price tag on fun...

cheygriz
January 24, 2011, 01:47 PM
:p You don't save money reloading! You just shoot more! :D:D

Seriously, buy in bulk. Join a gun club that has a FFL and buys for their members wholesale, and in bulk.

If you can't find such a club in your area, google your state laws governing non-profit corporations and get together with some friends and organize one.

gilgomesjr
January 24, 2011, 01:51 PM
Good points, guys. This actually started, believe it or not, with my wife asking me how much I'd be saving by reloading. Will it ever eventually pay for all that hardware? Since I'm not fond of the chore of removing baby oil from my right hand... My answer wasn't "who cares?":eek:

I was hoping there was an actual certified counter of beans who might answer this. But...

Long story short. Yeah. I also golf and have a project car... so... I get it. :cool:

Seedtick
January 24, 2011, 02:20 PM
Okay... Firstly I'm not a big bean counter fan. Even though my wife used to be a cost accountant... :neener:

I've put together a spreadsheet to show how much I'm saving reloading and how it's paying off all the hardware I keep needing to buy. ;)

I've included everything that goes into making a round, including media for the tumbler, pro-rated for each type of round. (Except of course for labor... It's part of a hobby... so...)

I'm currently only reloading .45ACP and 9mm, and will eventually do .38 Special.

Including everything brings the price of the reloaded round up quite a bit. (I need to buy bullets in bulk, obviously, as that's where most of the dollars hide.

My question is... Since I'm not including any of the hardware in the price of reloading each round and am just subtracting how much I'm saving from the hardware cost... Is that a viable approach from an accounting standpoint?

Also... Can I look at this from a different perspective? Can I keep ALL expenses in one bucket and subtract the actual market value of what's produced from that? :confused:

Tanx...
-Gillis

There is this -> Handloading Cost Calculator (http://www.handloads.com/calc/loadingCosts.asp) <- that might help a little.

Seedtick

:)

cfullgraf
January 24, 2011, 02:31 PM
Okay... Firstly I'm not a big bean counter fan. Even though my wife used to be a cost accountant... :neener:

I've put together a spreadsheet to show how much I'm saving reloading and how it's paying off all the hardware I keep needing to buy. ;)

I've included everything that goes into making a round, including media for the tumbler, pro-rated for each type of round. (Except of course for labor... It's part of a hobby... so...)

I'm currently only reloading .45ACP and 9mm, and will eventually do .38 Special.

Including everything brings the price of the reloaded round up quite a bit. (I need to buy bullets in bulk, obviously, as that's where most of the dollars hide.

My question is... Since I'm not including any of the hardware in the price of reloading each round and am just subtracting how much I'm saving from the hardware cost... Is that a viable approach from an accounting standpoint?

Also... Can I look at this from a different perspective? Can I keep ALL expenses in one bucket and subtract the actual market value of what's produced from that? :confused:

Tanx...
-Gillis

First of all, it is worth looking at the savings. Whether you shoot the same amount and spend less by reloading or spend the same and get to shoot shoot more by reloading, you have saved.

It is difficult to figure a cost per round for equipment/hardware. Most last virtually for ever. I used to wear out a Lee Auto Prime every year or so and potentially cutters on trimmers wear out, but in 30 years of reloading those are about the only pieces of equipment that I have worn out. If you reload enough, stuff will wear out. but the unit costs will be negligible.

Consumables such as tumbling media and case lube can be figured, but again, they last oh so long for me it is difficult on a short time basis to get a cost per round. I load 5000-8000 rounds per year.

Brass, bullets, powder and primers are easy to figure.

For me, I would take the cost of consumables, subtract it from the cost of commercial ammo and figure out how quickly I paid off the hardware/equipment.

Finally, I long since stopped figuring what a cost of my reloaded ammunition is. Most of my reloads are not duplicated by the commercial ammunition and some of it is wildcat or obsolete ammunition.

Besides, reloading keeps me out of the strip joints.

230RN
January 24, 2011, 02:55 PM
Cook the books to obtain whatever result you want... or she wants.

Works for major companies.

Don't amortize your equipment costs. It's a fixed cost at the first reloading session, and thereafter it's free.

In line with that, report only second quarter data to the former bean queen (spousie-person) who is overseeing all this.

Deduct from your expenses the projected income from possibly renting out your equipment.

Add in the projected income from recycling your spent bullet cores and their jackets as scrap material. Don't forget that the spent primers ejected from your decapping operation are made of valuable brass as well.

Don't show her the spreadsheet. Instead, distill it down into a nice, simple PowerPoint presentation. That always looks more official and believable than a bunch of those icky number-filled cells on a piece of paper or computer screen. Use pie-charts and bar graphs therein only if they support your position.

Bear in mind that accounting practices depend on the accountant and the purpose of the accounting. Rehearse this idea in your mind. Nay, fix it in your mind.

There, see?

Works for major companies, don't it?

:evil:


Terry, 230RN

ColtPythonElite
January 24, 2011, 03:28 PM
You definitely save cost per round....I wouldn't factor in the cost of the equipment, because most of it simply does not wear out. If you ever decide to sell it down the road, you will find that used reloading equipment holds a high percentage of it's original retail value. Heck, even some of it appreciates if you hold onto it long enough. I often see quality presses and dies that are 20 years old selling on eBay for more than they cost brand new.

oneounceload
January 24, 2011, 03:58 PM
You definitely save cost per round....I wouldn't factor in the cost of the equipment, because most of it simply does not wear out. If you ever decide to sell it down the road, you will find that used reloading equipment holds a high percentage of it's original retail value. Heck, even some of it appreciates if you hold onto it long enough. I often see quality presses and dies that are 20 years old selling on eBay for more than they cost brand new.

No reason not to amortize the cost of the equipment into the equation. As for appreciation, it doesn't even keep up with inflation

It is a cost, plain and simple, as are the cost of the components - one is fixed, the other variable

kennedy
January 24, 2011, 09:07 PM
figure cost of bullets, powder, primers and cases if bought, if they are your own cases than don`t include them, if it adds up to half of commercial than I am happy.

1SOW
January 24, 2011, 09:17 PM
Taking money from your wallet and firing it into a dirt berm DOES NOT save money.

$100 worth of factory ammo = xx.yz" of grin. $100 of reloaded and more tuned to your gun ammo = two times xx.yz" of grin. Quantify that.

CHALK22
January 24, 2011, 10:34 PM
That load data calculator is pretty neat. Now I can tell people how much my reloads cost when they want to "buy" them. Bookmarked just for fun!

italy176
January 24, 2011, 11:25 PM
Why reload? Because it is fun!

Why keep track of costs? Because it is yet another challenge. Who knows it may add to the fun/challenge of reloading.

When I reload 9mm I make 50 rounds for about $9.50 ($0.19/rd). Keep in mind that these 50 rounds are equivalent to Buffalo Bore standards (velocity/energy/hollow points). Now, with that said, the Buffalo Bore costs $25 for 20 rounds ($1.25/rd).

I am very pleased with my cost outcome. I have made some high quality ammo for less than than what I can buy cheap range ammo at Walmart and I have some real kick butt performance.

Perhaps in the future I may see how low I can go - buy lead bullets, use cheaper powder, buy hordes of primers online, and use minimal amounts of powder. Note: I didn't "average" in the cost of my press, dies, etc. If i did it would double the cost of the first couple of thousand rounds...

HOWARD J
January 24, 2011, 11:25 PM
Years ago I started reloading to save money--the kids were killing me with our Uzi.
It didn't take me long to forget the savings & start buying every good piece of reloading equipment I could get my hands on. I gave up trying to save & started enjoying my hobby.
I hope you will junk the calculator & start to relax & enjoy a great hobby
H

fractal7
January 24, 2011, 11:51 PM
I'm currently only reloading .45ACP and 9mm, and will eventually do .38 Special.

The 9mm savings is quite slim, even if you factor in "free brass" depending on the bullet and the load. I think you can make some pretty good dents in .45ACP, but .38 special is a giant money saver. My 38 special wadcutter loads take 2.8 grains of bullseye, and lead bullets from MBC, I think my cost comes to about $5-$7 per box of 50. I usually see a box of 38 rounds for sale at about $17 (Although I'll put the disclaimer on that statement that I'm sure that somewhere there is a deal I am unaware of but that is about the average "cheap" price that I see.)

Anyway just giving you some help to tip the balance sheet, although I know its not the accounting answer you were originally asking for.

mbruce
January 25, 2011, 12:09 AM
yes you factor in the cost of EVERYTHING. you depreciate it over the life that you think you will keep it until you replace it with a "better" one...life being # of rounds in this case. with that said...

the most important aspect of a spreadsheet is nice bold yellow colored column headers, frozen panes, and repeat headers at the top.... sorry i use to do financial analysis for an investment bank.

most reloaders on this forum will say they do it for enjoyment....it's a hobby -- what hobby actually saves you money? I do it because I have nothing else to do -- wife works in a different city 4 months out of the year and reloading keeps me out of trouble..LOL

murf
January 26, 2011, 01:19 AM
get your wife to start shooting. she wil forget about the question.

murf

bds
January 26, 2011, 01:32 AM
This actually started, believe it or not, with my wife asking me how much I'd be saving by reloading. Will it ever eventually pay for all that hardware?
Thankfully my wife likes to shoot and help me reload. When her friends ask about all the money I am spending on guns and reloading stuff, she tells them the joy and smile she sees on both our faces are "priceless". Besides, she tells them, when I am pursuing my hobby of cleaning guns and reloading, she knows exactly WHERE I am (she goes to the range with me). "Do you know WHERE your hubbies are when they "claim" to pursue THEIR hobbies of golf and fishing?" She tells them this with a wink. :eek::rolleyes:

mbruce
January 26, 2011, 10:51 AM
and when SHTF....the golfing and fishing buddies will be at your house.....LOL

RustyFN
January 26, 2011, 12:12 PM
You don't save money reloading! You just shoot more!

I would say that's true for the average reloader. There are a lot of us that also cast bullets. A lot of my friend and I cast our own. I have a pretty much endless supply of free lead. With free lead and a little time I end up with free bullets. That lets me shoot pistol calibers for $25 per 1,000 rounds. Most of my friends and I can't shoot enough to fit into that saying, we save a lot of money.

snuffy
January 26, 2011, 01:56 PM
Once, a year or so back, I decided to add up all the orders I made from Midway. They make it simple with a record of your past purchases. Since when I started buying from them, IIRC it was around 2000, the total was a smidgen over $10,000.00! That's JUST midway, I bought a lot of other stuff from other mail-order, or places like Grafs, GI brass, AND local gunshops.

Do I save money by reloading? As curly would say, cointennly! Is it an expensive hobby? Sure it is, but there's a lot more expensive hobbies than shooting/reloading.

I just relax, spend what I want, when I can afford it. Once in a while I'll figure the cost of a box,(50), of 45 ammo, just to make myself feel good. I don't have a SWMBO* to answer to. Being single/divorced definitely has it's advantages. If you're the main wage earner in the household, spend what you want to AFTER all the needs of the family are met.

Reloading for me, and I suspect everyone else, lets me shoots more rounds per dollar, but either way I blow the money. My indoor range fees are set at $25 per visit.

Holy toledo, then I guess my gun club membership @ $150.00 a year is pretty cheap! I can shoot as much as I want, any time,(key club), indoors or out.

*SWMBO= She Who Must Be Obeyed.

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