NRA High Power Rifle


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LtShortcut
January 25, 2011, 11:41 PM
Okay, I want to shoot in an NRA High Power Rifle competition and I'd like some help from any veteran shooters.

I've read the NRA rules and I just don't know how to get started on the gear.

I just want entry level, budget equipment.

What rifle is acceptable? And what sights? Those two questions are the ones that are killing me now.

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dzelenka
January 26, 2011, 12:37 AM
The budget rifle to start with is an AR-15 in service rifle configuration. They can be found for as little as $850 new or used. Under my theory of buy once cry once, I would get a White Oak Armament upper and any good quality lower with a 2 stage match trigger. You will need a sling, either leather 1907 or a cotton web M1. Everything else you can likely borrow at the match. Actually, if you contact your local club and tell the match director that you are interested in trying the sport, he will likely arrange for you to borrow everything, including a gun. You don't say where you are located, but if you are in Louisiana, I can take care of you.

For an equipment list on a budget:
Factory or WOA AR-15 with 1/4 MOA sights
coat (Creedmoor or Champions Choice)
scope and stand (Konus scope is good for money)
glove (work glove will work)
Mat (could be carpet scrap)
Something to keep your stuff in

Take a look at some of these websites:

http://www.6mmbr.com/highpowerbasics.html (great overview)

http://www.illinoishighpower.org/konrad/ (very good site)
http://www.odcmp.com/
http://www.odcmp.com/USAMU/Shooting_Tips.htm (excellent advice)
http://www.jarheadtop.com/chapters.htm (First 4 chapters of very good book on shooting B read them)

Forums: (must register)

http://www.nationalmatch.us/

Suppliers:

http://www.creedmoorsports.com/store/home.php
http://www.sinclairintl.com
http://www.championshooters.com/

bds
January 26, 2011, 12:48 AM
The Rifleman's Journal (http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com/p/articles-index.html) website is a bit over the top on accuracy shooting, but I get a lot of good reloading tips from them. Check out the articles in the Basics, Equipment and Reloading categories.

Get a big cup of coffee and have fun!

LtShortcut
January 26, 2011, 10:19 AM
The budget rifle to start with is an AR-15

Oh wow, great. I've got an M&P M4 witha 16" barrel. Is that a legal entry? If I enjoy the match I know I'll probably need to upgrade quite a bit.

dzelenka
January 26, 2011, 11:07 AM
You really need to read the whole sentence, not just the part you quoted. "The budget rifle to start with is an AR-15 in service rifle configuration." Your rifle is not in service rifle configuration. Although it would be legal as an NRA match rifle, trying to use your existing rifle configured as an M4 would probably leave you frustrated beyond belief. The short sight radius, lack of float tube and low velocity due to the short barrel will be serious impediments to your score. (Read this to mean that you really do not want to use your existing rifle.)

The cool part about an AR is that it is modular. If you are unable to borrow a rifle to try the sport, you could buy a service rifle legal upper from White Oak Armament, a 2 stage trigger Rock River or Geisselle trigger and an A2 fixed butt stock and be good to go for under $1000.

Where are you located? If there are local matches, contact the match director, explain your interest and that you have no rifle or other equipment. He is likely to offer to arrange for you to borrow everything you need. If you like the sport, buy the upgrades to your existing rifle I outlined. Remember, all you have to do is push 2 pins and you can change it back to M4 configuration.

Let me know if you have any further questions.

Dan

LtShortcut
January 26, 2011, 05:09 PM
You really need to read the whole sentence, not just the part you quoted. "The budget rifle to start with is an AR-15 in service rifle configuration." Your rifle is not in service rifle configuration. Although it would be legal as an NRA match rifle, trying to use your existing rifle configured as an M4 would probably leave you frustrated beyond belief. The short sight radius, lack of float tube and low velocity due to the short barrel will be serious impediments to your score. (Read this to mean that you really do not want to use your existing rifle.)

I read the entire sentence. I guess I mis-understood what service rifle stands for.

I don't mind if my score is terrible (to start), but I would like to go to this tournament. And I don't have enough time to go buy a new upper.

I'm in North Alabama.

Thanks for the help! :D

Grunt Medic TXARNG
January 26, 2011, 05:22 PM
Lt - you can shoot your M4 in the match rifle division. Have fun!

W.E.G.
January 26, 2011, 05:25 PM
Buy an AR-15 with A2-type sights, and a leather "military type" sling or one of the less expensive web slings with the lever-buckle.

Attend the nearest 100-yard highpower rifle match with enough ammo to shoot the match.

The experience will be like the poles of two magnets coming together.
One of two things will happen.
You will know which one pretty quickly.

Once you get caught up in the tractor-beam, all the other stuff you need to participate will become apparent without much effort.

coyotehunter223
January 27, 2011, 08:22 AM
Aside from the rifle (although you may be able to borrow that as well), you may be able to borrow gear to shoot the match from one or more of the other competitors. I'm still using a borrowed coat and mat, until piece by piece I get my own.

If you try to get ahold of the match director ahead of time, he may very well be able to hook you up with the gear.

dzelenka
January 27, 2011, 10:17 AM
Like it was suggested, contact the match director. He will likely be able to hook you up with everything, including a rifle. Between our club and state association, we have 16 National Match AR-15s that can be borrowed plus coats, mats, scopes, etc. Other clubs may have the same. Check.

Is this a reduced course match? or full distance?

LtShortcut
January 27, 2011, 05:02 PM
Is this a reduced course match? or full distance?

Reduced

dzelenka
January 27, 2011, 05:35 PM
I have had guys shoot M4s on reduced matches. They had fun but it was really little more than an organized plinking session for them.

W.E.G.
January 27, 2011, 05:38 PM
Remember, you do NOT need all the bells and whistles to have fun at a 100-yard or 200-yard highpower rifle match.

Once you move up to the full course at 600 yards, you are going to need some decent gear, or you will come away from it pretty frustrated.

MythBuster
January 27, 2011, 05:54 PM
You will need a good spotting scope. That is a MUST. A good one for the money is the Konus 80mm.

taliv
January 27, 2011, 10:52 PM
LTShortcut, many of CMP clubs do have loaner gear for new shooters.

it used to be that most of the CMP rifles that people buy through clubs came with strings attached... you had to bring them to club matches and let new shooters use them too.

usually, club loaner gear means a Garand. but if you borrow from an individual, usually an AR15.

if you have the time for a trip to middle-TN, i'd be happy to show you all the gear and how to use it before your match.

Pat M
January 27, 2011, 11:31 PM
Several years ago I was in the same situation as the LT. I fired one club match my first season because I felt intimidated, did not know the match protocol, did not have the gear, etc. I think I barely broke 600. I was shooting my Armalite flattop AR, no free floated barrel, combat trigger, muzzle break (nobody wanted to shoot next to me :-), and any 55 gr. ammo I could find. The next year I bought a jacket, glove, Turner sling, and shot a few matches. The year after that I was loading 69 gr. Sierras, bought a White Oak Armament service rifle upper, Rock River 2-stage trigger, Konus spotting scope, and a Freeland heavy duty stand. My score has improved to between 745 and 760. The point I am trying to make is that you do not need to buy everything at once, do not be intimidated by the great shooters (most of the guys in my club go out of their way to help and teach), and have fun. Try to find a SAFS clinic. What I need now more than anything is practice.

35 Whelen
January 28, 2011, 08:03 AM
Shoot and have fun Lt. And remember, unless your shooting in specifically in service rifle class, you can shoot almost any rifle that has open sights and the capability to be reloaded with magazines or strippers. There's nothing quite as intersting as seeing something OTHER than an AR on the line.
Hope you enjoy High Power. If it does nothing else, with time it will markedly improve your marksmanship!
35W

LtShortcut
January 28, 2011, 10:37 AM
unless your shooting in specifically in service rifle class, you can shoot almost any rifle that has open sights and the capability to be reloaded with magazines or strippers.

The only other rifle I've got is a sporter. Savage 3006 model ??.

I really like it, but it's scoped and doesn't take a clip of any kind.

It's VERY accurate at distance though. I bought it for 200 dollars at the pawn shop. :)

Here's a photo of my m4

http://postimage.org/image/5dl526nic/

I've to regular iron sights on it.

35 Whelen
January 28, 2011, 07:01 PM
As long as your Savage has a magazine capacity of five, and you're interested in using it, you're good to go. Stripper guides that mount to the rear receiver ring can be bought or made fairly easily. Mounting sights is really no big deal. Brownells sells a rear sight base manufactured by Lipski that clamps to a rear scope base and to the sight base you can mount a something like a Redfield Palma, Olympic or International. Front sights likewise aren't terribly difficult to mount if it doesn't already have one.
I have a friend with whom I shoot High Power. He shoots an old Model 70 30-06 with a heavy barrel and the sights I mentioned, and loads cast bullets over a mild charge of Red Dot.
Lately, his 17 year old son, who already has a frigging MASTER classification:what:, has been shooting it instead of his AR. Last two matches he's very narrowly missed shooting a Master score!
Point is, a half decent bolt rifle can easily compete with AR's.
35W

smokinfeathers
February 2, 2011, 10:59 PM
when I was in school way back then we used to shoot the matches every month. Show up pay a small fee get garand and ammo and have at it. If you didnt get there early enough you got a m1 carbine!! I have seen guys shooting trapdoor springfield 45/70's, sks, ak you name out there. Just go have fun, I havent shot a match in years but fixing to go whole hog and get back to shooting 200yd service rifle, f class and some 22br. I m about burnt out on 3-d archery!!

VT Deer Hunter
February 2, 2011, 11:33 PM
Its a bix exspencive at first, unless you have most of the stuff. I thought about it but it was to costly. I did watch one and there fun looking, with 3 or 4 stages and other parts you should give it a try.

35 Whelen
February 3, 2011, 12:40 AM
Its a bix exspencive at first, unless you have most of the stuff. I thought about it but it was to costly. I did watch one and there fun looking, with 3 or 4 stages and other parts you should give it a try.

I think one of the reasons it's expensive, or seems expensive is everyone seems to think they need to go out and buy all new equipment.
Both my shooting jackets were bought on eBay for almost nothing. I shot for the better part of a year without a shooting mitt. My first shooting mat was a piece of carpet, and now that I have a mat, I find it's really no better than the carpet!! Since I shoot the reduced course, I bought a spotting scope from WalMart for $60 that works perfectly. The scope is mounted to a scope stand which is partially home made.
Think outside the box.
35W

P-32
February 4, 2011, 08:30 PM
Ltshortcut, Lots of good information so far. When you can get a upper get it from White Oak. I don't know your level of income. I have two uppers from White Oak Precision which is the parent company to White Oak Armament. WOP uppers are a bit more than the WOA uppers. John and his side kick both shoot high power. I have not seen a service rifle from WOP or WOA that did not shoot.

I like their pinned sights. I went with 1/4 MOA per click on the sights. 1/2 MOA will work nicely but the upper can use the 1/4 MOA sights if you can hold it.

LtShortcut
February 5, 2011, 12:58 PM
Ok, went to the match. Unfortunately they cancelled due to weather.

I still stayed and shot with a few guys. The VP of my gun club was there and I'm going to sign out one of our club match rifles til I get my own.

My M4 had good shot groups, just couldn't get them in the right spot (something was actually wrong with the iron sights I bought).

Thanks for the advice!

Jenrick
February 5, 2011, 12:59 PM
If it's a reduced match of 300yds or less, you'll be fine with your rifle. Grab some 55gr white box stuff from walmart (or heck even Wolf for that matter) and go shoot. Everything else is secondary to trigger time. 99.9999999%+ of people who start out can't hold and shoot at what their rifle is capable of. You don't need the latest greatest space gun to go out and have fun. If it's something you end up enjoying, then you can start to invest in it.

For your first match, bring your AR, and about 150 rounds of ammo. That's enough to shoot the course w/ sighters, as well as refine your zero if need be. A GI websling, though any two point sling will work. 4 20 round mags if you've got them, else 2 20 rounders if you can. 30's are legal, they are just a pain since you can't use them as a monopod and have to stay higher off the ground. A heavy work coat like a Carhart jacket or the like, and a work glove for your support hand. A piece of camp pad or carpet scrap for shooting mat, and a bucket for your gear. Everything else like a spotting scope, range cart, etc. is just gravy.

If you get bitten by the bug, then I'd pickup in order:
rifle or upper for the division you choose to shoot (match or service) WOA as mentioned are great rifles/uppers
shooting jacket (as mentioned check EBay, I got a full leather coat for $60)
spotting scope - if you're not shooting full length matches a sporting goods birding scope will work fine. If you are going out to 600 yds, get a Konus or the like. (Konus is way cheaper then the other companies and just as good)

If you reload, it's easy to get started reloading as well. A 69gr over a sane charge of Varget, loaded to magazine length. That'll take you to 300 with little problems.

-Jenrick

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