EAA Zastava P.A.P AK-47 question


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cirwin2
January 27, 2011, 12:29 AM
For a while now I've been looking at the EAA Zastave PAP due to its fine workmanship, accuracy, accessories and PRICE! I think it's by far the best AK-style rifle out there for the money. I can get these for under $400 brand new. My ONLY concern is that they take single stack mags. If I decide to buy one I plan to mill out the receiver but I know this brings about some legal issues.

So my question is, if I mill out the magwell so the PAP can take standard AK mags, what else would I have to do to make this rifle legal in the US? Also, what would be the cheapest way to make it legal (swapping which parts, etc...)?

Thanks for any and all information!!

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Gord
January 27, 2011, 12:38 AM
So I just looked it up. As far as I can tell it's... a sporterized single-stack with a railed dust cover? Those, FYI, are crap. They shift around and don't hold zero. Other than that, it looks pretty run-of-the-mill.

Just start with a Saiga. The mag well is already double-stack and you can get easy-peasy conversion kits in full from places like Dinzag Arms. You can also get them for "under $400 brand new." A conversion should run you maybe $100ish in parts and takes a couple of hours, tops.

If you're dead-set on the Zastava, the answer to your question is that you'll be subject to 922(r) which means you'll need 10 US-made parts on the gun... which will probably cost about as much as converting a Saiga.

nalioth
January 27, 2011, 12:48 AM
As far as I can tell it's... a sporterized single-stack with a railed dust cover?No railed dust cover on the factory models (maybe you're looking at some reseller's page?).

These are just like factory WASRs and SSR-85s. All of them come into the USA in single-stack "sporting" form, and some of the importers add 922r parts and mill open the mag well (which is what the OP will need to do if he opens his up).

Aaron Baker
January 27, 2011, 12:53 AM
Why does adapting a gun to take double-stack mags suddenly mean you have to be 922(r) compliant?

If the theory is that changing a rifle to add "non-sporting" features means you have to make sure it has US-complaint parts, what makes a double-stack mag "non-sporting"? The issue isn't with stacking of rounds but with "high-capacity" magazines being non-sporting, as I read it.

Anyone?

Gord
January 27, 2011, 01:00 AM
No railed dust cover on the factory models (maybe you're looking at some reseller's page?).

I did a Google Image for "zastava pap". Most of the results have a dust cover rail. :)

Birdmang
January 27, 2011, 01:06 AM
The dust cover rail moves all over the place, looks alright, but wont hold any zero at all. Also the receiver is cut on a slant, so it might be difficult to put on another stock if you wanted to.

cirwin2
January 27, 2011, 01:08 AM
The Zastava is much better quality than a WASR and is on the level of a Saiga which is why I want one. However, buying a Saiga and then buying a thumb hole stock for it and polymer furniture and rail, I could have 2 Zastava's. That is why I'm considering the Zastava or I would just buy a Saiga in the first place. The WASR is pretty much the only AK in the same price range as the Zastava which includes everything I want...except for the stamped receiver. However when you look at the guns side-by-side it's like comparing a Kel-Tec to a Glock. Both will function but there is a huge difference in quality.

Birdmang
January 27, 2011, 01:10 AM
I don't agree with your statements, have you held the rifle?

Also for the 922-r question: When I read into the law it seemed that a manufacturer needs to change to a certain number of US parts when modifying the rifle in question. I don't consider to be a manufacturer so I don't need to be compliant. I also have got the news from forums that the above reading of the law is not the case, and anyone who modifies the firearm in question needs to keep it 922-r compliant. So to be safe, be compliant...but has anyone ever been convicted of this, other than a MANUFACTURER or business? Has a person gotten in trouble. Either way be compliant.

Girodin
January 27, 2011, 02:15 AM
If you're dead-set on the Zastava, the answer to your question is that you'll be subject to 922(r) which means you'll need 10 US-made parts on the

It means you need no more than 10 foreign parts form the list of countable parts. You can get there with less than 10 countable US parts.

what makes a double-stack mag "non-sporting"? The issue isn't with stacking of rounds but with "high-capacity" magazines being non-sporting, as I read it.

I believe readily being able to accept the standard (30 round) magazines may be the issue, hence why saigas are imported with a mag catch that prevents this and the need for a bullet guide as opposed to just imported with a 10 round double stack in the box.

Really though if you are not going to run 20 30, or greater round mags why bother with modifying the mag well? Also 922r is very easy to comply with.

I don't consider to be a manufacturer so I don't need to be compliant. I also have got the news from forums that the above reading of the law is not the case, and anyone who modifies the firearm in question needs to keep it 922-r compliant.

I believe the language of the statute is "It shall be unlawful for any person to assemble from imported parts any semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun which is identical to any rifle or shotgun prohibited from importation under section 925 (d)(3) of this chapter as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes except that this subsection shall not apply to— " the word used being assemble not manufacture. To the best of my knowledge there is not definitive law as to what would count as assembling. The ATF has issued conflicting interpretations. ATF interpretations are NOT law but rather what they believe the law to be. One interpretation is that installing a magazine alone would count. It is conceivable to say that if you stripped the firearm that that you then assembled it when you put it back together. I am just astonished by the number of people that do not understand the legal significance of an ATF letter answering someone's questions. The long and short of it is that they are not the law and you cannot rely on them, people that cite to them like the are a statute or a regulation are woefully ignorant of how administrative law works.

Giving your own "common sense" reading to the law is just asking for trouble, particularly when you don't even bother to get the language of the statute right.

All in all there is zero sense in having a non compliant weapon or counting on unsettled law coming out your way if it ever came to that. It is pretty to easy and relatively cheap to be compliant.

the Zastava which includes everything I want...except for the stamped receiver.

Might I kindly assure you that a milled receiver itself offers no practical advantage over a stamped one. It does however weigh more and tends to cost a good deal more. I wouldn't lose any sleep over the stamped receiver, and I certainly wouldn't pay hundreds more for a milled one.

However, buying a Saiga and then buying a thumb hole stock for it and polymer furniture and rail, I could have 2 Zastava's.

I'm not telling you which to buy, just consider that if you follow through on your plan to hog out the magwell and use double stack you will need account for the costs and changes to keep the gun legal. New FGC is easy and 3 parts but then you need to swap another countable part. You could go with US magazines (or magazine parts such as a base plate) only but that is IMHO a poor way to do it for a number of reasons. You could swap the stock, but the slant cut receiver may be an issue with finding a stock you like and you may also need to add a US PG at that point, you could do the hand guards. At any rate there will be more expense and work than just modifying the mag well and you may want to put paper to pencil on how it compares to modifying a saiga.

HorseSoldier
January 27, 2011, 04:10 AM
Serious meh-factor and not a thing that stands out as quality or noteworthy -- Yugo AKs were never considered high quality, just different and a lot of the AK ignorant get all excited about the heavier receivers.

Better course of action would be to just buy some flavor of RomAK and send it off Jim Fuller for a tune up. Or the previously mentioned Saiga conversion.

cirwin2
January 27, 2011, 07:49 PM
Thanks Girodin! That's the kind of answer I was looking for. Was trying to see if it would be worth it or not to buy the zastava after all that. And yes I have shot a wasr and zastava side by side and did prefer the zastava quite a bit.

zamboxl
April 13, 2011, 01:20 AM
ok not hijacking but where are you guys finding saigas for under 400?

nalioth
April 13, 2011, 01:25 AM
ok not hijacking but where are you guys finding saigas for under 400?Forum software provides dates for posts.

Timing is important.

As of now, there is pretty much nowhere you can find a Saiga for under $400.

Wait a bit, and you'll see them everywhere (according to sources, the next shipment is due any time).

zamboxl
April 13, 2011, 02:03 AM
you know i was looking at my post and i know i should have added a line to acknowledge the obvious fact that this baby was a little out of date. a well i guess i'll make sure to next time, either way thanks for the tip, i'll keep my eyes peel since i am looking for an ak.

Davek1977
April 13, 2011, 02:30 AM
http://classicarms.us/

currently accepting Saiga orders for $379.99 to $399.99, dependent on caliber

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