So have to vent about the new S&W.


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Mr.454
January 28, 2011, 03:20 AM
So finally got the 627PC, and have been using the snap caps quite a bit. And noticed there is a nice big burr on the front of the barrel. It looks like someone was cutting the barrel with a band saw and didn't finish the cut leaving a lip. On the in rear of the barrel by the cylinder there is another burr.http://www.thehighroad.org/images/smilies/banghead.gif And I noticed tool marks on the back of the hammer, not to mention if you fire it and hold the hammer down it opens up a gap between the hammer and frame about .013. Now for the real pisser on the side of the barrel with the burr the cylinder gap is .012, and on the other side is .008. What crap I have a 686+ next to me that cost not even half as much with much better finish.

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StrawHat
January 28, 2011, 05:14 AM
What did S&W say when you contacted them about the issues?

ROBBY.1911
January 28, 2011, 06:15 AM
i used to own a 686-7 PC in .38 super. i truly got one of the first as the serial number ended in #009. after a short time i noticed that the cylinder stop notches were kicking up some metal on every cylinder. i called S&W and the said send it in. it happened a second time and got sent in. that's when they accused me of sitting around day and night dry firing the gun. i got so pissed off i told them to take the gun back they finally replaced the cylinder and the gun worked from ther on in. you gotta stay on them..

jglcolosprgs
January 28, 2011, 09:01 AM
I'm amazed at how many people accept a "new" gun out of the box without even looking at it. Even if it was a mail order bride, I sure would have inspected it on receipt and sent it back to the seller right then and there. I field strip autos, I visually inspect everything. I play "dumb" and have the sales guy take them apart for me and "show" me how to reassemble.

I've handed back a number of guns to a dealer and pointed out problems. I got burned by Smith & Wesson and learned my lesson.

MCgunner
January 28, 2011, 09:21 AM
Yeah, but remember, Taurus sux.....:rolleyes:

Yeah, any time I buy a revolver I check it out thoroughly and I really prefer buying USED revolvers, especially Smiths, especially OLDER Smiths. I've got some great TAURUS and Smith used guns. New, well, just check 'em out just as you would a used one. That'll weed out 99 percent of the problems. Gotta look real close.

MCgunner
January 28, 2011, 09:23 AM
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=1430

MrBorland
January 28, 2011, 09:53 AM
So have to vent about a new S&W.

Modern CNC production can make great guns. Unfortunately, when a machine gets out of whack, it seems their process isn't very good at catching and fixing those guns before they go out. Fortunately, I hear mostly very good things about their CS. My experience with S&W CS has been very good.

Good luck to you.

Sniper X
January 28, 2011, 11:37 AM
AMEN MC Gunner! My sentiments exactly! Not only that, but I'll ad that lately the Taurus revolvers I have looked at lately, have looked and felt better than the current crop of Smith's! In fact, I have a 10-8 and loked at a brand new 10-14 in the gun store last month, it felt like a cheap copy of my 10-8! And the bluing was substandard especially for S&W.....I was very disappointed, especially with the trigger, which compared to mine, felt more like it should have been on a RG instead of a S&W.

roaddog28
January 28, 2011, 11:43 AM
Hi,
Anytime a person buys a handgun new or used they need to check the revolver out thoroughly before they buy it. That is why I don't buy handguns on the internet. I don't even buy cars or trucks too on the internet. I want to see the merchandise and check it out first before I spend my hard earn cash.
With that said, I am not surprise about your 627PC. The quality of new S&W revolvers nowadays is for me poor. I have handled a few new S&W revolvers from a 686P, 686ssr and a 620. All of them were poorly finished, had very heavy trigger pulls and just were not worth the asking price. I just bought a L frame back in late November. I wanted either 686, 620 or a 686ssr. The reason. Too compete in IDPA. After trying all of the above I decided to buy a 686-2 4 inch. This revolver has a much better trigger pull and is finished much better that the news ones I was considering. I paid $400 for the revolver. The new ones would have cost me from $800 to $900. This is in sane to pay for a new revolver when a person can get a better made used one for half the cost. Mr 454 I hope everything works out for you,
Howard
My 686-2 4 inch

http://i656.photobucket.com/albums/uu283/HPitt74985/DSC00008.jpg

nofishbob
January 28, 2011, 11:45 AM
I have a new performance Center revolver back at S&W right now to correct a bunch of assembly blunders.

Nobody at S&W seems to even look at these guns before they ship them.

My lower priced Rugers and Glocks all had much better (nearly perfect) fit and finish right out of the box than my new high dollar "Performance Center" S&W.

Once stupid, twice a fool.

Bob

Mr.454
January 28, 2011, 12:43 PM
I didn't get a chance to check it out because it was a gift, but as soon as it was given to me I noticed the burrs at once. What could I say good job dear? So I figured I'd just get some Flitz, and some lapping compound and fix the blemishes myself. But why the heck should I on a gun that cost over 1K so on a lark I figured if they didn't care about QC I should check the cylinder gap. Lets say that the cylinder gap I can't deal with, that has to be fixed. My experience with S&W CS was not as good as Taurus. The person I spoke to had no interest in what was wrong he just wanted to get FedEx to me and get off the phone.

Thaddeus Jones
January 28, 2011, 01:05 PM
Welcome to the current company calling itself S&W!

Hopefully their stock will continue to tank, and they will be purchased by a gun company. :)

Nomad
January 28, 2011, 04:42 PM
I hate to put down S&W as I have many of the older models which I will not part with. However, I bought a S&W 317 a couple of years ago as a survival tool for my line of work which occassionally takes me into remote areas. It shot like crap. The best I could get it to do was 2" at 10 yrds with trying all sorts of ammo brands. I sent it back to S&W on their dime and it came back shooting the same with no information on what if anything was done. I called a rep and he said ship it back so I did. The second trip back I called to follow up before they shipped it back. They told me it was shooting in spec so I asked what spec was. They told me 3" at 10 yds. I couldn't believe it for a $500 plus gun. It was advertised on their web-site in part as a target gun. Crap I can shoot a slingshot almost that good. I sold it and took a bit of a loss and am trying to avoid new S&Ws going forward.

SPW1
January 28, 2011, 09:19 PM
They told me 3" at 10 yds. I couldn't believe it for a $500 plus gun. It was advertised on their web-site in part as a target gun. Crap I can shoot a slingshot almost that good. I sold it and took a bit of a loss and am trying to avoid new S&Ws going forward.

Isn't that the truth. Frankly there is no reason why a perfectly average revolver shouldn't be able to shoot groups of no more than two to two and a half inches at 25 yards. If a revolver will not do at least that well there is likely something wrong with it. That isn't a hard level of accuracy to reach and a lot of production guns will do quite a bit better. I hate to think how poorly a revolver would have to be made to be capable of no better than 3 inch groups at ten yards. Even the cheapest and most poorly built revolvers you come across will usually be able to "group"(or should I say pattern) at least that well. Three inches at ten yards is certainly a pretty pitiful "standard" for a company that produces rather expensive revolvers to hold themselves to.

jad0110
January 28, 2011, 10:12 PM
Modern CNC production can make great guns. Unfortunately, when a machine gets out of whack, it seems their process isn't very good at catching and fixing those guns before they go out.

Yep, it does appear that not enough QC of the CNC machines themselves is performed. We have lots of such machines in an industrial setting I work to support, and a well oiled QC system of those machines is absolutely critical.

I've only purchased 2 NIB S&Ws, and both (particularly the 686) were perfectly fitted and asembled, if rough in the finishing department.

dewalt-2
January 29, 2011, 12:19 PM
My 686-6 4" was good to go out of the box-no obvious flaws and mechanically perfect in function-zero end shake and tight cylinder lock up, although a little stiff in DA. I gave it a good going over at the shop when I bought it. As I do with all new guns, I detail stripped it the minute I got it home. I was surprised to find it completely dry inside, no assembly lube at all. Also, internals were roughly finished with lots of ragged edges and unpolished machining. After about 6 hours of meticulous stoning and polishing it went back together(without the IL)-what a difference. DA was much smoother and lighter, and SA came in at an average of 2.4# with no creep.
Although the gun was perfectly functional as purchased, it could have been much more refined with a little effort at the factory.
By the way, it did shoot POA at 50', no complaints there.
I spiffed her up a bit...
http://i999.photobucket.com/albums/af120/Radar-1/003-11.jpg

StrawHat
January 31, 2011, 05:34 AM
dewalt-2 ... After about 6 hours of meticulous stoning and polishing ... what a difference...

Not unbelieveable, what is unbelieveable is how many $$$ 6 hours of hand work would add to the factory price. It would put them out of business.

Jim K
January 31, 2011, 01:21 PM
With all the "I'll never buy another ...." posts, it sometimes seems that the gun community is more eager to put gun companies out of business than the Brady gang.

I also wonder how many of the "I demand absolute perfection" folks are themselves perfect. Of course I don't want to meet them - I suspect absolute perfectionists are absolutely insufferable.

Jim

SWAddict
January 31, 2011, 01:57 PM
With all the "I'll never buy another ...." posts, it sometimes seems that the gun community is more eager to put gun companies out of business than the Brady gang.

I also wonder how many of the "I demand absolute perfection" folks are themselves perfect. Of course I don't want to meet them - I suspect absolute perfectionists are absolutely insufferable.

Jim

I don't think the gun community wants to put gun companies out of business. We just want the hard-earned money that we pay for guns to go to buying a quality gun that does not need any fine-tuning or a trip back to factory to correct problems that should not have made it past a final QC check. S&W's older guns very rarely had problems like modern S&W's. It seems like in the past few years, the number of S&W guns that need to have factory problems corrected is very high.

As for demanding perfection, there is nothing wrong with an imperfect person demanding perfection from a company when it is that imperfect person's money paying for a product which was promised by the company to be of the highest quality. But what many people are demanding is a basic level of quality from S&W. S&W seems to more and more have sub-standard quality.

I myself have had several modern era S&W's that have left the factory with issues. I had a 625JM that had cylinder notch which had metal peening and this caused the gun to skip a cylinder when shooting in double action. I had S&W fix it and then I sold it. I have a 627Pro that the front of the barrel was not cut perpendicular to the bore of the barrel; it has a 3-5 degree angle to it. I kept it as it does shoot good but this should not have made it out of the factory. I purchased another 625JM that has a different barrel-to-cylinder gap depending on which side of the gun you do the measurement. These are the only modern era S&W's that I currently have. I have owned others but sold them. And ALL of these modern era guns, required me to completely disassemble them to clean out metal shavings and lubricate them.

Thaddeus Jones
January 31, 2011, 02:49 PM
Well said S&WAddict ! :)

Those who excuse their favorite manufacturer, and encourage us to accept less while paying more, are responsible for the sorry crap with famous trademarks we are saddled with.

Junk is junk, nomatter the country it was produced in.

If folks would not buy this junk, the manufacturers would stop trying to foist it on the rest of us. TJ

NMGonzo
January 31, 2011, 02:58 PM
send it back to get it right

all companies eventually do that

bflobill_69
January 31, 2011, 04:14 PM
Yeah I the newest gun I own is about 25 years old... and as you would guess its arguably the worst crafted. Find a nice OLD one someone has loved and treated with the respect it deserves!

Old guns keep my young at heart,

Buffalo Bill in NC AZ

ExMachina
February 1, 2011, 09:55 AM
Don't fret. You're NOT alone :(

My brand new S&W 22-4 came with a host of issues. I only detected one of them before I bought the gun, but have since found at least 4 more...and I still haven't gotten around to test firing it :what:

So, this one will be going back to S&W. Here's hoping that the make things right for the both of us!

Mr.454
February 3, 2011, 03:46 AM
Contacted S&W last week and still waiting for that magical shipping label, getting fed up. For all the complaining I've heard over the years about Taurus they actually take care of people. I call them and FedEx is at my door the next day. Call Smith and no one really seems to care about the problem. And this isn't about being a perfectionist this gun cost as much as both my Raging bull 44, and my PT92 combined it should look good and perform.

Rxster
February 5, 2011, 02:01 PM
You are not alone. I just bought one and it had the same burr on the muzzle. Would have never saw it (I never look at the muzzle for some reason), but did after seeing your post. It is on the way back to S&W as well.
No excuse for it to happen on a PC gun. We all make mistakes, it is how they handle the issue that will make or break it for me.
Keep us posted.

OldCavSoldier
February 5, 2011, 03:11 PM
I am definitely a long-time "Smith & Wesson guy." That being said, I gotta add that of the 18 Smiths I own, 14 of them are 20+ years old. A year ago, I purchased a second 3-inch 686P NIB. I got it for several hundred dollars less than MSRP because it had a couple of rough finish spots that the dealer did not want to mess with. (He showed me his invoice and I paid him exactly what he paid for it.) I did see the spots before I bought it, and because the trigger and mechanical working of the piece were flawless....just like my 1976 era Model 19, I bought it, figuring I could definitely live with it if I had to, since it was/is to be a daily working gun and not a safe-queen or display piece.

I took some digital pix of the rough spots, included them in an e-mail to S&W with my question of how they recommend I fix the spots, and they responded that they were sending me a shipping label so I could return the revolver to them. I got the label two days later, shipped the revolver back to them, and received the revolver back from S&W five days after I sent it. It was perfectly spiffed-up. As far as I am concerned, S&W Customer Service is 100% A-OK.

I am sure that there are others who have had similar good experiences, as well as others who have had completely opposite experiences. Just thought I would tell about *one* good recent experience with S&W.

FIVETWOSEVEN
February 5, 2011, 10:20 PM
With all the "I'll never buy another ...." posts, it sometimes seems that the gun community is more eager to put gun companies out of business than the Brady gang.

I also wonder how many of the "I demand absolute perfection" folks are themselves perfect. Of course I don't want to meet them - I suspect absolute perfectionists are absolutely insufferable.

Jim
So in other words if a company makes bad guns that we should accept that and buy them because their a gun company?
That makes no sense.

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