AA12 for the military: anyone heard any news lately?


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Precision
January 28, 2011, 03:36 PM
Just to clarify: I'm not planning on buying one, for several legal/logistical reasons. Having said that, I haven't heard any updates on the weapon. I think it would be totally beneficial if this weapon system was implemented into the armed forces. The Marines were looking at it a lot a few years, but I have heard absolutely zero news about it.

Has anyone heard of progress with the militarized AA12/FRAG-12 rounds?

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Sam Cade
January 28, 2011, 04:02 PM
The number one reason you can't buy one is that as far as I know the AA12 does not exist beyond a few dozen prototypes.

The AA12 remains vaporware as does the Frag-12 grenade.


There are better options for an infantryman than a 15 pound shotgun.

rbernie
January 28, 2011, 04:07 PM
The big issue seems to be that the US military has found little use for a combat shotgun outside of breaching roles or in specialized 'inside the fence' guard functions. For those types of roles, there are less expensive and less demanding platforms available.

AFAIK, there is no branch of the US military that is seriously looking at adopting a semiautomatic combat shotgun.

The number one reason you can't buy one is that as far as I know the AA12 does not exist beyond a few dozen prototypes.I have heard that the Daewoo variant did sell in some numbers to non-US concerns, but I have no visbility into who bought them or how effective they proved. My suspicion is that they looked really cool on paper but proved less effective than a traditional 'general purpose' assault rifle in practice.

Hangingrock
January 28, 2011, 08:15 PM
afaik, there is no branch of the us military that is seriously looking at adopting a semiautomatic combat shotgun.

:what:M1014:what:http://www.usmcweapons.com/articles/M1014/M1014NF.htm

JShirley
January 30, 2011, 06:18 AM
That's old news.

I think that rbernie's point was that it's specialized, not a general-issue weapon. Shotguns in general just aren't as effective for most types of combat. Ammunition is heavy, bulky, and fragile, and range is limited.

I would love to have a Serbu, and I have seen US forces carry them into combat, (as a secondary weapon and breaching tool) but I don't kid myself that it's a general purpose fighting tool.

John

Grunt Medic TXARNG
January 30, 2011, 06:32 AM
Shotguns also have other specialized uses - firing less-lethal munitions for example, and when effective range is intentionally kept short, as in guarding prisoners or certain MOUT/FIBUA scenarios. And I think (or hope, at least) that rbernie meant there is no .mil branch seriously looking at adopting a fully automatic shotgun, which the AA-12 is.

LHRGunslinger
January 30, 2011, 07:14 AM
No the main reason you can't purchase one is because it is manufactured in South Korea and was designed from the ground up as a combat weapon. AFAIK no one can import a weapon into the US from another country that "has no sporting purpose"

Hangingrock
January 30, 2011, 10:21 AM
I think that rbernie's point was that it's specialized, not a general-issue weapon. Shotguns in general just aren't as effective for most types of combat. Ammunition is heavy, bulky, and fragile, and range is limited.

The same is said of certain other weapons types also which are currently in the militaries inventory.;)

Jack2427
January 30, 2011, 07:49 PM
It will be a while before the US Military adopts any new shotgun. The reasons being:
1. The shotguns now in the system are doing the shotgun job quite well.
2. The guns in inventory require much less training than a full auto weapon thas uses very diverse ammunition.
3. The military has other weapon issues to resolve before even thinking about shotguns.
4. As mentioned above, shotgun ammo is bulky and heavy.
5. The cost of a brand new shotgun either semi or full auto, will be substantial, even the R&D costs will run into 7 figures. The adoption of the M1014 was quick and dirty as such procurements go, an existing weapon was tested, found satisfactory and they bought some.

It will take some doing to pursuade the military to junk what seems to be working well in favor of something not only new, but NIH (not invented here).

Carl N. Brown
January 30, 2011, 08:40 PM
R&D for the AA12 has been going on for years, more here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atchisson_Assault_Shotgun

4thPointOfContact
January 31, 2011, 01:23 AM
Ask anyone who was a fanboy of the USAS-12; that sucker got HEAVY after carting it around for a few hours. There was a reason it came with an M60 sling.

One of the primary reasons you don't replace current shotguns with something that heavy is the same reason you don't replace M4's with Ultimax 100's even though the Ultimax has a lot more firepower going for it.

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