[vega]

Hi guys,

I got a Remington 700 ADL in .308, I originally want the 30-06 but the guy at the store said that the 06 is overkill. I am in SoCal and this is my first hunting so I have no idea how big the deers are. Do I have enough fire power in the .308?

I have this on a lay-away and I can still change the caliber. I plan to put a Lupey 3-9x40 scope.

http://www.remington.com/images/firearms/700ADLS.JPG

TIA,
vega

[mtnbkr]

The 308 and 30-06 are close enough in power to be about the same in most loads. I'm surprised (no, I'm not really) that the salesdroid poopoo'd the 06 while selling you the 308. He must've wanted to move that 308. The 30-06 is the quintessential deer caliber, but the 308 is becoming that as well.

Either way, unless the deer where you hunt are undead monsters with ninja skills, the 308 should do just fine.

308 ammo is cheap, shoot a lot and become proficient before the season opens.

Chris

[ACP230]

My first good deer rifle was a .30-06.
It's still not a bad choice and not overkill for deer.
It can be loaded down too, if you reload.

If I was buying a first deer rifle today, I'd get a .308.
There's a lot of surplus ammo around for it, brass is cheap, and some of the .308s I've shot have been very accurate.

[El Tejon]

vega, focus on software, not hardware. The .308 is just fine.

Do you have competent instruction arranged? An area to dry practice? Time to zero and "know" your weapon?

Good luck in your hunt. You'll do great!:)

[Art Eatman]

Yeah, as far as "hardware", any deer in California within 300 yards belongs to you. Sight in for about two inches high at 100 yards; this puts you dead on at 200 and about six inches low at 300.

After you're sighted in, you're pretty much through with using a benchrest. Work at developing skill in shooting offhand and with using some informal, "hasty" rest like you'd be doing out in the real world of hunting.

I still hold with the belief that if a person can fairly regularly hit a tin can at 100 yards from the offhand position, the world is yours. That's one of the reasons for having a bolt-action .22 of about the same characteristics as your main hunting rifle. It's a cheap way to work on eye-finger coordination.

:), Art

[vega]

Thanks for your great replies.

mtnbkr - The salesguy and me have the same height and he has got more beef than me. We were not blessed with good height and he did explained the recoil. I don't think he just want to move the .308. He gave me 3 choices, the 308, 243 and the 06.

When me and my brother-in-law came to the store they did not breath under our neck, they let us handle all the rifles.

ACP230 - Yeah I do reload for my pistols and this will be my first time for the rifle. I plan to get the lee die set.

El T - There are three good open ranges in my locality and the rifle shooters there are willing enough to teach. And I do believe you guys here in the forum are great instructors.

Art - I just want to get this straight. With my cross hair dead on at the bullseye at 100 yards the bullet should go 2 inches high?

Again guys, thanks.

vega

[Guyon]

vega, you've already got some great advice.

BTW, I have the exact same rifle as you--a Remington 700 ADL in .308. Shot a deer with it as recently as Thanksgiving. Plenty of power.

While a .30-06 will allow you to experiment more with loads if you reload, a .308 does offer the advantage of cheap milsurp ammo, as ACP230 points out. Do keep in mind that the .308 milsurp might be labeled by its NATO designation, 7.62x51. Most of the milsurp .30-06 is long gone and more expensive if you do find it. If you go to gun shows at all, you should be able to find .308 milsurp at a good price. You can also buy it online from a number of dealers.

Why bother? Well, it'll allow you to practice with that new rifle at a fraction of the price of hunting rounds. Just make sure you get rounds with non-corrosive primers. You can do a search in the rifle forum on .308 milsurp and find a lot of options. Some of the more popular are Hirtenberger (Austrian), Radway Green (British), and South African.

However, once you decide to sight in for hunting, make sure that you do use the exact round that you'll be using in the field. The ballistics will likely differ a bit from the milsurp rounds.

Art is exactly right (of course). To zero that rifle at 200 yards with a 150 gr. bullet, you should be right around 2 inches high. It varies a little with load to load, but you can pull up ballistics tables online for any popular hunting round by going to the maker's website.

For instance, I use Winchester Super-X PowerPoints in 150 gr. It's a fairly economical cartridge you can pick up almost anywhere. Plenty accurate. According to the ballistics chart over at www.winchester.com (http://www.winchester.com/ammunition/store/cfrproductsheet.aspx?symbol=X3085&qrystr=Y2FydGxpc3QrQUQwLU16QTRJRmRwYm1Ob1pYTjBaWEkrQUNVLTNkK0FDWS11c2VsaXN0K0FEMC0yK0FDWS1icmFuZGxpc3QrQUQwLTIrQUNZLWJ1bGxldHR5cGUrQUQwLVBQ), I need to hit paper 2.4 inches high at 100 yards to hit dead on at 200 yards. That's because a bullet rises a bit before gravity begins to affect it.

If you're making your own loads, you'll simply need to experiment to find out that load's precise ballistics. 2 inches high is a good rule of thumb for 150 grains though.

Congrats on the new rifle, whatever caliber you decide on. Good hunting to you.

[Art Eatman]

vega, yeah, with the crosshairs centered on the target, the bullet should hit two inches high at 100 yards.

Something that might prove helpful to you over a long number of years would be the purchase of the Sierra Reloading Handbook. Aside from being quite helpful in comparing the relative performance of numerous cartridge/bullet combinations, it has an excellent treatment of external ballistics.

Trajectories of various bullets at varying distances; uphill/downhill shooting; the wind's effect on bullet flight, and many other features. It's a great reference book.

And if you ever take up reloading, it's quite good there as well...

:), Art

[vega]

Art - I got the 13th edition since I reload for my pistols. I plan to reload for my rifle too.

vega

[Dave R]

Confirming the .308 will do fine.

Speer's reloading manual says the .308 is fine for anything except the great bears. I tend to agree.

[Art Eatman]

vega, you got the world by the tail on a downhill pull!

:), Art

[Guyon]

vega, what's a Lupey scope? Short for Leupold?

Get good glass. I have a Tasco on mine, and I'm getting ready to upgrade to something nicer--probably Leupold or Nikon. Can't afford Ziess, Swarovski, etc.

[Mike Irwin]

The .30-06 is overkill, but the .308 isn't?

Gunshop people... :rolleyes:

Your .308 is more than enough gun for animals up to elk or even moose with the proper considerations being taken.

[vega]

Guyon - Lupey, nickname for Leupold.

Art and the rest - I changed my order for the 30-06 on the last minute. I figured since I reload I could always adjust my powder.

Thanks all.
vega

[Art Eatman]

Since 1950 I've been using 4064 and various 150-grain bullets for my deer hunting. Start out with 50.0 grains; I worked up to 52.5 and have never had signs of too-high pressure. I think the chamber on my Weatherby is a bit on the "loose" side, though, since almost any once-fired brass will chamber.

While I've had overall excellent results with the Sierra SPBT, I've found they'll blow up on mule deer at close range. I therefore recommend the Spitzer-type Sierras in 150-grain, because of the slightly thicker jacket. (Hornady and the Rem Bronze Points have worked well.)

For varmints, the 110-grain Hornadys are great. Start with 50.0 grains of 3031.

For real "exploding varmints", run the 100-grain plinkers on the hot side.

For general plinking, whatever bullet is cheapest (lead gas checks work well) and some 20 grains of 2400 for around 1,900 ft/sec.

Based on comparative "dings" at 500 yards on steel, I'd use the Sierra 180-grain SPBT on elk.

:), Art

"There ain't many things that a feller cain't fix,
With a few hunnerd dollars and a thutty ought six."

[vega]

Art - which 4064 are you referring to? IMR or XMR or it doesn't matter as long as its 4064?

vega

[Art Eatman]

IMR. It's apparently no different in burn rate than back in the dark ages when it actually was a DuPont product. I've been using 52.5 grains behind a 150-grain bullet since 1950. Lord knows, a half-dozen different '06 rifles. (I suggest starting at 50.0, of course.)

FWIW, my father always used the military load in 4895, behind 150-grain Hornady bullets. Bambi never noticed any difference between my father's loads and mine...

:), Art

[Geezer]

Hey, all those responses and no one addressed that part of the question!

California deer range from tiny, coastal blacktails along the coast south of Monterrey, to big enough to ride, (literally), Rocky Mountain subspecies muleys in the X zones.

Biggest darn deer I ever saw in my life, so big I thought it was an elk at first, walked through our campground in Yosemite. It was so big I won't actually tell you how big it was because you will think I am a liar.

Silliest deer was a pretty small burro subspecies mule deer outside of Picacho State park, middle of desert, not a blade of grass or a leaf of shrub to eat for miles, I have no idea what this doe lived on.

The mule deer around LA are pretty small, not as small as the little blacktails, but still small. You could probably pick up a full grown deer and sling it into your truck without unzipping it.

It doesn't matter...308 or .30-06, either one will kill any deer, elk, black bear, inland grizzly bear, moose or caribou deader 'n' a doornail if you do your job.

God bless and y'all be careful out there.:cool:

[cocked]

Vega,

Where are you located?
I am in Santa Monica....
Going to do some deer hunting this fall...
I have a few spots located..
I shot at Angeles..

Regards,
Dan

d825@netzero.net

[vega]

Art - Couldn't wait for your answer this morning, anyway I got the IMR (good thing I made the right choice). I also bought a box of winchester X 150 gn. Too bad they run out of Fiochi, it was only $7.99.

Geezer - I wouldn't mind getting a small buck. I just hope I get one.

cocked - I'm in Ventura county but I shoot at Angeles too, I compete at Gunnex and Norco with my pistols. I hope I could hook up with you and get some pointers re hunting and rifle shooting.

vega

[H&Hhunter]

Vega,

great rifle/caliber chioce. I've killed many a deer with the 06 and the.308 as well. For all intensive purposes they are ballistic twins.

The best advice you can get is never listen to a gun store commando.....:barf:

[Mike Irwin]

You've been using 4064 since 1950, Art?

Wow.

I've heard that back then they extruded it through hollow birds legs with stone hammers and cut the grains to length with flint knives... :)

[Mornard]

Vega -

Perfect gun - it will kill any deer ever born. I favor 150 gr in my 308's. Buy all affordable ammo you can and shoot, shoot, shoot - (targets) . Get familiar with this gun and you'll love it. You'll be amazed at the accuracy and it'll last a lifetime, along with that scope.

You can't go wrong with this combo for your intended purpose.

Best of luck.
Liberty

[MeekandMild]

vega, when I got back into deer hunting a few years ago I was worried just like you were, afraid of being undergunned. Then I found out the object of the sport was entirely to narrow down the target to the area which resulted in a quick kill. Now I'm comfortable with a .243, which is a smaller version of the .308.

I would suggest that the first deer you kill you don't just skin out but you spend some time looking at where exactly in its body lie all the important organs: heart, lungs, arteries and where in its neck runs the spinal cord and arteries. That lesson will be a lot more important than a bigger gun.

[vega]

Please stop telling me another caliber. I'm already broke. ;)

vega

[mtnbkr]

Please stop telling me another caliber. I'm already broke

Then I won't tell you about my 6.5x55... ;) :evil:

Other than it's very accurate, easy on the shoulder, and supposedly kills better than it's paper balistics would indicate (I haven't shot it at a living creature yet :( ).

:)

Chris

[Mornard]

Vega, dude -
That's integral to enjoying this sport - always broke and always looking to buy the next one. Gee, if one deer rifle is good, 12 must be better, right? (Now if I can only convince my wife...)

[Art Eatman]

Okay, so I won't tell you about my little tack-driving .243, or the twenty-some-odd deer I've killed with it, or how well it does on coyotes...Or the story about the "Cactus Buck"...

But I still think of my '06 as "Ol' Pet". :)

Art

[mtnbkr]

We're an evil bunch, aren't we? :evil:

:neener:

Chris

[Tactical]

I would have gone with the 458 Lott, But I LOVE overkill. Thats why I love the 30-06.