Would it be legal to use a gun in self-defense in this situation?


PDA






sharpshooter74
January 31, 2011, 12:26 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBzCKGp3UNU&feature=player_embedded

In a situation like this, would it be okay to use a gun in self-defense if I were in danger of being beaten to death?

If you enjoyed reading about "Would it be legal to use a gun in self-defense in this situation?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
ekgandj
January 31, 2011, 12:35 PM
They would have not even gotten that close! Especially multiple guys obviously following you. If they persisted then at least one of them would not have gone home that night. Yes fully in your right, to use deadly force. Your life is in danger.

Sam1911
January 31, 2011, 01:24 PM
Of course it would. There is a tremendous disparity of force and obvious "ability, opportunity, and jeopardy."

Bartholomew Roberts
January 31, 2011, 01:33 PM
Not enough information to say. We don't know what happened before the video started rolling. In many states, one of the conditions of being able to use force (of any kind) in self-defense is that you don't provoke or start the incident.

If the guy is walking down the street minding his own business and the video shows all the relevant parts, then the only issue is whether a reasonable person would feel an immediate threat of death or serious injury by their actions and at what point in the video would that occur.

However, if say, before the video started, the victim yelled "Hey you goat-humping, syphillitic morons, watch where you are going!" Well, then we have a question whether that provoked the fight and how hard did the guy try to retreat/leave the fight?

As a rule of thumb, if you draw on an unarmed man (or group of men) and start shooting, expect to go to jail and need a lawyer.* If the circumstances look bad enough that this is the least of your worries, then do what you gotta do.

*For a good example of this, see Mark Abshire (http://www.thehighroad.org/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=7051211) who was attacked on his own lawn by six drunk men, in a state with good gun laws and a "Stand Your Ground" law. Mr. Abshire attempted to use non-lethal force and waited until he was down on the ground with his teeth cracked and one guy on top of him and another guy kicking him to pull his pistol. Despite that, he lost his job, house, and spent two years in the court system.

Geno
January 31, 2011, 02:00 PM
In Michigan, we have legislated Castle Doctrine. As such, so long as wherever I am, I am there lawfully, I am not obligated to attempt to run to safety. If I reasonably perceive myself, or any other person to be in eminent risk of bodily harm death sexual assault, I am in my lawful right to stand my ground and stop the attack.

The aspect of this attack that sticks in my mind is not the multiple attackers, it is the video taping. Due to wanting to get it on tape, I would assume them to be gang-bangers-wanna-bes. I assume them to be looking for an opportunity to film and attack as part of the induction into a gang. That is fairly common. It wouldn't take me long to decide that in such a situation, I best be doing my best to adhere to the law, and stop the attack before it gets physically under way.

Geno

crzyjarmans
January 31, 2011, 03:10 PM
laws vary from state to state, some say you must flee if able, some say no fee required, best to know the law in the state you are in,

TexasRifleman
January 31, 2011, 03:14 PM
In a situation like this, would it be okay to use a gun in self-defense if I were in danger of being beaten to death?

I don't mean to come of as suspicious, but why would you even ask that question?

What kind of answers are you expecting to get?

Bottom line is the law varies from state to state as mentioned, and it's not known here what preceded the attack.

Assuming the victim was completely innocent, the disparity of force alone puts this into legit self defense territory in most places.

hirundo82
January 31, 2011, 04:36 PM
IIRC, the first CHL shooting in Texas (shortly after the CHL law went into effect in 1995) was a driver shooting an unarmed man who has attempting to carjack him by punching him in the face repeatedly. I believe the case went to trial but the shooter was acquitted.

These days, I doubt such a case would even make it to trial. See for example the Joe Horn shooting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Horn_shooting_controversy), where he was no-billed by the grand jury (at least in Harris County, it is SOP for all self-defense shootings to be referred to the grand jury). If a reasonably person would be in fear for their life, and IMO it is a very reasonable fear if a pack of young men are chasing you, you are justified in using deadly force.

metalman8600
January 31, 2011, 04:41 PM
I wouldn't care if it takes place on what used to be England, I would protect myself by any means necessary.

Bartholomew Roberts
January 31, 2011, 04:55 PM
These days, I doubt such a case would even make it to trial. See for example the Joe Horn shooting, where he was no-billed by the grand jury (at least in Harris County, it is SOP for all self-defense shootings to be referred to the grand jury).

The big difference in the Joe Horn case is that he had called 911 and that a plainclothes detective had already pulled up and was witness to the shooting as it happened.

If your attackers aren't kind enough to videotape the attack and hand it over to investigators, then the he-said/she-said can get pretty bad. Note that Joe Horn had shot one of the men in the back because he angled away at the last fraction of a second. If the detective hadn't been able to give his testimony to the grand jury, Mr. Horn might have been in for a tough time.

Bigchessie
January 31, 2011, 05:07 PM
In a situation like this, would it be okay to use a gun in self-defense if I were in danger of being beaten to death?

What would lead you to believe otherwise?

rhodco
January 31, 2011, 05:18 PM
It really just comes down to two things:

1). What you have to do to survive.
2). What it will cost you afterwards.

Unfortunately, life isn't always fair. Bad guys don't always lose. Good guys don't always win.

This looks like a situation where one white guy is being attacked by a gang. If there is video/eyewitness testimony to support your version of what happened, you may not even be charged. Happy day.

If, however, there is no video or witness to be found, it will all come down to your word against the surviving gang members. Unless you have injuries to prove you were attacked, you will probably be arrested, charged with something, and stand trial. Even if the jury believes you in the end, the cost of a trial may be devastating.

The outcome may or may not be fair, but at least you will be alive.

bikerdoc
January 31, 2011, 09:04 PM
Refer to post #4 and and 7 and call it a day.

Time to put this one to bed.

TexasRifleman
January 31, 2011, 09:08 PM
Time to put this one to bed.

I think so. The video itself doesn't give the whole story. If one assumes the victim in the video had done nothing wrong before the attack it still falls to individual state laws to determine if a response with deadly force would be appropriate.

And, the OP hasn't been back in the thread.

So, there we are.

If you enjoyed reading about "Would it be legal to use a gun in self-defense in this situation?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!