Are these AK's any good?


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RockyMtnTactical
February 1, 2011, 02:15 PM
http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/storeproduct948.aspx

Are they a good rifle in the $600 price range? I am looking to get another AK and don't know much about these.

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Z-Michigan
February 1, 2011, 02:44 PM
No experience with that rifle.

The Arsenal SGL-21 can be found for under $700 and is a brand new Russian AK-100 series... check out Gunbroker for deals.

nalioth
February 1, 2011, 03:20 PM
Arsenal does not make the SGL line. These are Russian-made Saigas they're importing and selling.

Z-Michigan
February 1, 2011, 05:24 PM
I own an SGL-21 and I'm well aware that it's one conversion of a Saiga, it just happens to be one that's done well and can be bought off the shelf. To my knowledge Arsenal is the one handling the importation and distribution/retailing, and has been putting their name on it whatever the merits of that may be. Although it's essentially a Saiga, as a Saiga is essentially a neutered AK-100, the SGL is, so I'm told, a special joint project of Arsenal and Izhmash's "Legion" division, and is imported separately from the standard Saigas that are imported by Russian-American Armory.

OP: from a quality and function perspective, some flavor of Izhmash Saiga, whether one you convert yourself, an SGL, or one you buy converted from someone else doing a good job (like a good gunsmith), is going to be the best AK by some distance. Beyond that, it's basically a matter of looks and price. The only other AK I would consider nice would be one of the gunsmith conversions by "Gunplumber" of Arizona Response Systems:

http://www.arizonaresponsesystems.com/

They do cost quite a bit more though, and it looks like there's nothing in stock right now.

Girodin
February 1, 2011, 05:48 PM
or one you buy converted from someone else doing a good job (like a good gunsmith)

I understand your statement says "like a good gunsmith" and that it is not per se an exhaustive list but there seems to be a suggestion that the work it takes to convert a saiga is not just work a professional gunsmith should do but one a particularly skilled guns smith should do.

Which parts of the process specifically, if any, of the conversion process do you think are beyond the means of the average home hobbyist who takes the time to learn what needs to be done and then carefully does the work? Which of those, if any, could you not easily and relatively inexpensively have done if one so desired?

RockyMtnTactical
February 1, 2011, 06:52 PM
I owned and converted a 556 saiga in the past. It was a great gun but I wanted something different. I will probably just keep looking around. Have also owned a bulgarian and a hungarian...

Z-Michigan
February 1, 2011, 07:31 PM
Girodin - I don't think any part of a Saiga conversion is difficult for any competent gunsmith, or for that matter any interested hobbyist with moderate mechanical skills. But I've seen and heard too many stories of appalling work (in various contexts) by people apparently in business as gunsmiths. Also, there are some shops that have put out Saiga conversions by the 100 that have skimped, like the welded bead for a bullet guide that I believe TGI was doing at one time. I don't think you can assume anything about quality when you're talking about 922(r)-compliant conversions of combloc weapons. Just look at the single biggest importer that does such conversion work.

elmerfudd
February 2, 2011, 12:10 AM
It is possible to mess up a Saiga conversion. I bought a converted S308 a few years ago for very cheap. One of the odd things I discovered while setting things right was that whoever had done the conversion had bored out the trigger group pin holes a few thousandths of an inch oversize and then had fabricated their own screws to replace the pins. They'd also installed a recoil buffer....backwards.

snakeman
February 2, 2011, 12:35 AM
It's probably fine.

snakeman
February 2, 2011, 12:36 AM
If you already have one ak though...you could always consider the saiga 308

mshootnit
February 2, 2011, 12:54 AM
Arsenal does not make the SGL line. These are Russian-made Saigas they're importing and selling.

Arsenal is making the SGL last time I checked. They are Saiga's when they get here and SGL rifles (922R compliant) when they ship out.

mshootnit
February 2, 2011, 12:56 AM
It is possible to mess up a Saiga conversion. I bought a converted S308 a few years ago for very cheap. One of the odd things I discovered while setting things right was that whoever had done the conversion had bored out the trigger group pin holes a few thousandths of an inch oversize and then had fabricated their own screws to replace the pins. They'd also installed a recoil buffer....backwards.

Sounds to me like a converter problem not a conversion problem.

mshootnit
February 2, 2011, 12:58 AM
I have sold a half dozen or so of these AK's and they are ok for what you get. i would check it for canted sights, and headspace.

Girodin
February 2, 2011, 03:04 AM
Girodin - I don't think any part of a Saiga conversion is difficult for any competent gunsmith, or for that matter any interested hobbyist with moderate mechanical skills. But I've seen and heard too many stories of appalling work (in various contexts) by people apparently in business as gunsmiths. Also, there are some shops that have put out Saiga conversions by the 100 that have skimped, like the welded bead for a bullet guide that I believe TGI was doing at one time. I don't think you can assume anything about quality when you're talking about 922(r)-compliant conversions of combloc weapons. Just look at the single biggest importer that does such conversion work.

This is one of the reasons I tend to encourage people to do it themselves. The owner tends to care about the end product and thus tends to do a better job than some of the mass commercial conversions that have been cranked out with an eye to maximizing profits. It is a process the vast majority of people can do themselves even including things like threading the barrel.

One of the odd things I discovered while setting things right was that whoever had done the conversion had bored out the trigger group pin holes a few thousandths of an inch oversize and then had fabricated their own screws to replace the pins. They'd also installed a recoil buffer....backwards.

That is pretty odd. I have a hard time imagining why they would have done that. I agree however that if you do something that is wholly not part of what needs to be done to convert the gun you can probably find a way to screw it up. Perhaps the guy lost the pins and couldn't figure out how to acquire new ones???

notasfancy
February 2, 2011, 10:33 PM
Saigas are not fancy looks but very good quality. Some businesses with gun-smith-tactical-wanna-bes are not so good quality. Do it yourself or have it properly done.

mcdonl
February 2, 2011, 10:51 PM
So, I have pictures uploading to photobucket, and I hope to get a new thread started tonight showing yet another step by step conversion.

The major part, that you need to be careful of is taking time. Dont use a grinder or dremel, use a file and step up in drill bit size. It took me an hour to do what was reportedly a 15 minute job of drilling out 2 pins, 1 spot weld and three rivets but when I was done the holes were the same shape and size that they were when I started. I can see where being lazy and trying to get too fancy you could run into problems.

elmerfudd
February 3, 2011, 01:14 AM
That is pretty odd. I have a hard time imagining why they would have done that. I agree however that if you do something that is wholly not part of what needs to be done to convert the gun you can probably find a way to screw it up. Perhaps the guy lost the pins and couldn't figure out how to acquire new ones???

I really don't know why myself. The screws appear homemade. They have two flathead ends and one side screws into the other, resulting in what looks like a double headed pin. Kind of hard to explain. I didn't really discover they were oversize until I went to replace the trigger group and found that they wouldn't fit. At that point, I decided it was at least functional, if odd, the way it was and left it that way.

nalioth
February 3, 2011, 06:49 AM
Arsenal does not make the SGL line. These are Russian-made Saigas they're importing and selling.
Arsenal is making the SGL last time I checked. They are Saiga's when they get here and SGL rifles (922R compliant) when they ship out.That's like saying that Saleen makes Mustangs or Calloway makes Corvettes.

mcdonl
February 3, 2011, 01:46 PM
Elmer... I had read about the horror stories of conversions gone bad. When I drilled out my trigger group pins I punched, then used 1/8th, 3/16th and then 1/4 inch bits to drill out... by the time I got the 1/4 the pin was spinning and I was able to finish the job off with a file.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/mcdonl/Saiga223Conversion008.jpg

If you look you can even see the some of the pin that remained after drilling out the left pin. This is good, because the drill but never once touched the reciever.

SwordRapier
February 3, 2011, 03:04 PM
I was interested in the answer to the original question but it appears this thread has been hijacked. :neener:

1stmarine
February 4, 2011, 01:36 AM
Mcdonl,
This was a good job drilling the pins out. You want to barely touch the receiver and they will come off with the punch easily.
With the bottom ribets just punch them and drill them slowly and all the way. They will eventually disconnect and the entire trigger plate
comes of. I see folks with files, dremels, etc... you do not need any of that but a good set of bits and a drill press or a good drill with steady hand.
AND PATIENCE.

Girodin
February 4, 2011, 02:57 AM
You want to barely touch the receiver and they will come off with the punch easily.

You in my experience do not need to touch the receiver.

Interestingly, in relation to the discussion above, this isn't even a step in the 308 conversion.

I wonder if the 308 discussed above is a result of someone not doing much reasearch and using this set of instructions http://www.cross-conn.com/Saiga_Conversion/ and not understanding the differences in the x39 and 308 conversion and just looking for a place to put those silly silver screws. That's my best guess.

1stmarine
February 4, 2011, 10:32 PM
Girodin,
You are 100% right this step is not needed in the .308. The trigger is all one piece connected by a long wish bone to the rest of the group vs. the other saigas that use a cantilever and those pins are for that cantilever to work. In the .308 though you need to shave the hammer hump as it interferes with the front post, at least with the G2 trigger groups. Same issue with the saiga shotguns.

Also in other calibers you do not need to touch the receiver when drilling the back pins and if you do it should be minimally, barely touching. With a drill press and very slowly it takes 5 minutes. However you do it take your time as it is better to do it right than to do it fast. There is no race and if someone is in a hurry they shouldn't be working in their carbine in the first place.

Rough flat plastic plugs found at the local ACE store look like rivets that can cover those holes nicely. Do not use the black gloss plastic plugs, those look like plastic and not metal. No need for the ugly aluminum screw-in posts in that conversion link you posted.

Cheers,
E.

1stmarine
February 4, 2011, 11:07 PM
Arsenal and Saigas. Same pedigree.

All that arsenal does is that they have a different agreement with a company Legion LTD in russia that gets them from the Izmash manufacturing plant where they make the AK 101,102,103,104,105 and 74M carbines and then this 3rd party company goes through a transition condition to get them ready for export and import in the USA. Then Arsenal they work in a regular conversion here with some US furniture and rename them SGLs. They are the same baseline carbines up the mil specs out of the same factory. There are some small details in the receiver as required by the final military rifles that after converted make them look more like the original.
Some people rather to pay double to have that and that is ok. Some people like to convert themselves the sporterized version of the izhmash as it is required like that for imports and it is ok too, whether they do it to save money or to have fun doing it.

This are the 3 options to get a nice Russian made carbine or shotgun:

First Izmash manufactures the carbines..
http://www.izhmash.ru/eng/product/weapon.shtml

Option A
1- The company Legion Customs shop gets the carbines form Izmash and prepares them for export to the USA as they original AKs cannot be imported in the USA.... http://www.exclusivegun.ru/en/index.php/catalog
2-Then Legion Customs sends the systems to Arsenal in the USA where they change the parts again to make them US 922r compliant.....
http://www.arsenalinc.com/index.htm
3-Arsenal distributes them through resellers in the USA.

Option B
1- Izmash that sends the saigas to Russian American Armory USA. They do no need any modification as they already 'sporterized' versions.
http://raacfirearms.com/Saiga.htm
2-Russian American Armory in the usa distributes them through resellers in the USA and handy buyers convert anyway they want. Make sure you make yours 922r compliant, there is no comprehensible reason for not having yours compliant but I have seen many online that are not.

Option C
Find an original Russian Preban, and pay for it. Probably too much.

Whatever you choose, buy often, put them on your gun rack and enjoy.

Cheers,
E.

nalioth
February 4, 2011, 11:10 PM
Also in other calibers you do not need to touch the receiver when drilling the back pins and if you do it should be minimally, barely touching. With a drill press and very slowly it takes 5 minutes. You should NOT have to drill anything at all on a Saiga .308 or a Saiga shotgun conversion.

The "Klinton pins" are simply held in place by their shoulders. Rolling up the shoulders with a cold chisel allows the pins to be removed and there is no chance of "Oops, I picked the wrong bit size" or other mechanized mishaps.

.zerocool.
February 4, 2011, 11:14 PM
Hey guys. woot second post, and it's something that I'm worth a damn with. AK's yeee.

Ok, the scoop. New ak's, I'd have to say Saiga and Arsenol take the crown. Many many times over. I love my Saigas and they are literally brand spankin new, not remans.

Now, I figured I'd set the story straight on ak's by linking you to an article... from a site that IMO has the best rep out of any site around. It's not a forum, so no hard feelings about me linking you here. If your in the market for an AK... please, and I mean PLEASE read this first. It will give you ALL the information you need, in one tiny, sexy, pictures included article.

http://www.shootingtimes.com/longgun_reviews/ST_akexce_201007/index.html

(btw, it's an article more aimed/ based on the arsenol ak, BUT it gives you everything you need to look for in an AK when you are thinking of picking one up. IE, you won't buy a pos... you will know what to look for when you buy one, regardless of brand. (but I have to say, Saiga is still up there with Arsenol!).

Have at it boys! :)

1stmarine
February 4, 2011, 11:28 PM
Nalioth,
I know, I have them all converted by myself. I started almost 3 years ago.
Read the ENTIRE post before you reply...

Girodin,
You are 100% right this step is not needed in the .308. The trigger is all one piece connected by a long wish bone to the rest of the group vs. the other saigas that use a cantilever and those pins are for that cantilever to work. In the .308 though you need to shave the hammer hump as it interferes with the front post, at least with the G2 trigger groups. Same issue with the saiga shotguns.

1stmarine
February 4, 2011, 11:33 PM
.zerocool.
Saigas are 100% russian and as good as any AK choice. The russian steel is supreme. Considering you can get one still at good deals convert one for very little vs. buying the Romanian junkyard systems some they are selling.
The first one I got was a Saiga in 7.62x39 almost 4 years ago for $167.
today they are already more than double.

All good stuff. successfully proven over and over again.

.zerocool.
February 5, 2011, 12:08 AM
Yea, the Saigas are made in the same plant as the Kalashnikov AK47 in Russia. So basically, not only does it not get more authentic than that, the tolerances and qc are identical to the actual Kalashnikov AK47.


Personally, I like the Saiga SKS's more than the Saiga AK47 based guns, just because well, an SKS made so good, is just such a sexy thing IMO :)


I've owned a 7.62 saiga SKS but got bored with it and felt like jumping up to a Saiga 20 (so I could deer hunt with it!. Talk about an efficient and "evil" slugger :D )


Reason I always mention Saiga. But then again, sometimes I skip over mentioning siaga because generally in cities in california and other huge urban areas, "noobie kids" are known to get saigas and be irresponsible with them. But for a gun educated adult, a Saiga is a great addition to any firearm collection. Well, as well as the Arsenol ak's.

Like you said, buyers should beware of companies claiming to sell new ak's, that in reality are poorly cleaned military surplus ak's that who knows how the original user(s) took care of them. Regardless, any AK will normally fire, no matter how "bunk" the modifications or treatment was, but if your looking for something that hits the target every time, and runs like an AR performance wise, nothing beats a brand spankin' new factory gun like an Arsenol or Saiga. I guess in the end you get what you pay for, especially for AK's.

And yea, in states that have looser / lighter gun laws, 200-500$ is going rate for Saigas of any type, and in states like California where you need to modify the gun, they run upwards of 6-900 and up. In fact I have never seen a Saiga sell for less than 500 used in California. Kinda sad being the msrp is about 350ish on them.

1stmarine
February 5, 2011, 12:27 AM
zerocool,
saiga SKS? I lost you there.

A saiga is a Kalashnikov action in this case from izmash plant in Russia
A SKS is a Simonov action .

Would you explain what the Saiga SKS system is?
Many Thanks.

.zerocool.
February 5, 2011, 01:15 AM
Uh, the Saiga sks is an SKS design, made by Saiga in the same factory as the AK. I never said the SKS was an AK design, I just said I owned one and liked it. They function the same as the Saiga ak... which is flawless. *no not function by an engineering standpoint, function as in the gun being reliable, and flawless in action*

Outside of the one I had, and the few at the gun shop, I haven't seen them many other places. Generally it's only the Saiga AK's you see, but occasionally you see a Saiga SKS pop up. Don't know if it was a limited run, a hobby run of one of the employees or what.

Saiga makes more than just AK's. They make more than just shotguns. What is available in the US markets is also different to what they sell to other countries. Many times people import firearms for the heck of it. I know a few ffl's who collect weird stuff.

Heck, my Saiga SKS was literally brand new by looks, but it could have also been one hell of a reman by Saiga. Who knows. I had no paperwork on it, only markings on the rifle told me it was a Saiga. Certainly was no AK, as I had a Russin ak to compare it to :)

1stmarine
February 5, 2011, 01:37 AM
zerocool,
many thanks for the prompt reply.
I hear you. All they make I posted in the post before...

First Izmash manufactures the carbines..
http://www.izhmash.ru/eng/product/weapon.shtml

The thing is that SKS were issued or reserved some for cermonial use. I know Zastaba and Izmash made them but I thought this was all pre Saiga.
I am trying to find in some books I have the in all the series and I cannot fin them.
The day I stop learning something new that day I will be dead so thank you for sharing.

Do you have a picture?

Thanks.

Shear_stress
February 5, 2011, 03:00 PM
Heck, my Saiga SKS was literally brand new by looks, but it could have also been one hell of a reman by Saiga. Who knows. I had no paperwork on it, only markings on the rifle told me it was a Saiga. Certainly was no AK, as I had a Russin ak to compare it to

"Saiga" is a brand name used by Izhmash for a line of rifles and shotguns that use a variation of the AKM action and basic construction. And where'd you pick up that "Russian AK"?

Pics please.

.zerocool.
February 5, 2011, 11:48 PM
Unfortunately I don't have any pics :(

I was out west for x mas one year and was showing my bro pics while playing basketball. I left them in the mail box while we played and forgot about them. I think the mailman reported them to the authorities thinking I was some crazed terrorist or something. LOL. At least it gave me a good story and memory out of the deal, but I'm po'd because it was pics of everything I've owned in the last decade. Pics I had no copies of.

I'll have to stop by the LGS and see if by any chance they are still there. Been quite a few years since I've dropped in there. Odds are they are still cobwebbed on the rack. I'll post some pics if they are. I'm starting to get really curious about what I had now, as the more I dig into it the more it looked like a custom job, or a hobby job. I do know it's not unheard of for a company employee of a firearm company to make up his own guns for himself, and probably for coolness mark them as the company name, just for the sake of it. Give me a few, I'll see if the LGS still has some next time I road trip.

1stmarine
February 6, 2011, 12:01 AM
.zerocool.
Any pictures would be awesome because as far as I know (and many folks I know too) after studying the ARs, AKs, M1s and several other classics for years never came across something like this. As Shear_stress mentioned Saiga is a brand designation for the sporterized AK version ok to import and we would never consider an SKS with AK denomination or viceversa. Both are piston driven eastern block designs but different systems. So I am still very interested to see how a SAIGA SKS looks like.

I cannot find them anywhere in the books. maybe this was a R&D project or some secret development otherwise I don't really understand.

Are you sure you are not mistaken with another Russian SKS or some other make?

I am not questioning your judgment I am just wondering as nothing is in the firearms books about this.

Cheers,
E.

Shear_stress
February 6, 2011, 12:06 PM
UnUnfortunately I don't have any pics

I was out west for x mas one year and was showing my bro pics while playing basketball. I left them in the mail box while we played and forgot about them. I think the mailman reported them to the authorities thinking I was some crazed terrorist or something. LOL. At least it gave me a good story and memory out of the deal, but I'm po'd because it was pics of everything I've owned in the last decade. Pics I had no copies of

Oooookay. But you still have this "Russian AK", right? Maybe you could somehow conjure up a way to get more pictures. We have the technology.

Ithaca37
February 6, 2011, 02:24 PM
There is no Saiga SKS. .zerocool. has no idea what he is talking about.

This is an uncoverted Saiga. There is no SKS version. The lack of a pistol grip does not make it an SKS clone or derivative.

http://neithercorp.us/npress/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/saiga308.jpg

This is a converted Saiga.

http://izhevsk.club.guns.ru/images/saiga12p.jpg

Shear_stress
February 6, 2011, 02:45 PM
There is no Saiga SKS.

That's for sure. The last Russian SKS rolled off the assembly line in the 1950s. It would just be nice if .zerocool. would let us in on what he thinks he saw or owned or whatever . . .without resorting to convoluted stories of mailboxes, etc.

There's so much misinformation out there and it kills me to let it go unchallenged.

Ithaca37
February 6, 2011, 02:51 PM
That's for sure. The last Russian SKS rolled off the assembly line in the 1950s. It would just be nice if .zerocool. would let us in on what he thinks he saw or owned or whatever . . .without resorting to convoluted stories of mailboxes, etc.

There's so much misinformation out there and it kills me to let it go unchallenged.

I have a feeling that we are dealing with a "expert" who got his degree in all things firearms from internet message boards, video games, and airsoft. I am not holding my breath waiting for pictures and a detailed story.

Shear_stress
February 6, 2011, 02:57 PM
I am not holding my breath waiting for pictures and a detailed story.

Yeah, that's about the long and the short of it.

1stmarine
February 6, 2011, 08:45 PM
I have been wondering what an SKS-saiga is? ...or even an SKS-AK ??????:confused:

I have been collecting saigas for many years now (Among other systems) and
never heard such thing in my life and I am 45 years old but also lets make sure we give the person the opportunity to explain in a cordial way before we say "they have no idea what they are talking about". If this is the case (and that might well be here) then this could be an opportunity for this person to learn something. I am open to learning from anyone every day.

W/o getting into much details these are the facts that everyone knows:

-AK is kalasnikov action.
-A SKS is a Sergei Simonov action. He also designed the AVS-36 earlier and troubled system.
-A saiga is a Kalashnikov action in this case from izmash plant in Russia that is a denomination for a series of sporterized AKs primarily oriented to hunting.
It is stamped with the same materials and quality procedures as mil spec izmash AK line of carbines. Also shotguns with a slight variation of the aK piston system are in this line of products.
- The Saiga and many other AK based systems are still being manufactured today. AK-101,102,103,104,105,AK-74M,etc... The SKS is not manufactured anymore.
-Both AK and SKS use a long stroke piston system but they are different systems.
-SKS predates the AK and it was quickly phased out by the AK47.
-The SKS was made by all the eastern block countries as well as china, north Korea,etc.. It had an important yet secondary role in some wars. Today it is still used for ceremonial use in Russia.

Cheers,
E.

atblis
February 6, 2011, 08:57 PM
I have an Interarms Tantal and it is nicely put together (much much better than Century).

1stmarine
February 6, 2011, 09:23 PM
I have been wondering what an SKS-saiga is? ...or even an SKS-AK ??????:confused:

I have been collecting saigas for many years now (Among other systems) and
never heard such thing in my life and I am 45 years old but also lets make sure we give the person the opportunity to explain in a cordial way before we say "they have no idea what they are talking about". If this is the case (and that might well be here) then this could be an opportunity for this person to learn something. I am open to learning from anyone every day.

W/o getting into much details these are the facts that everyone knows:

-AK is kalasnikov action.
-A SKS is a Sergei Simonov action. He also designed the AVS-36 earlier and troubled system.
-A saiga is a Kalashnikov action in this case from izmash plant in Russia that is a denomination for a series of sporterized AKs primarily oriented to hunting.
It is stamped with the same materials and quality procedures as mil spec izmash AK line of carbines. Also shotguns with a slight variation of the aK piston system are in this line of products.
- The Saiga and many other AK based systems are still being manufactured today. AK-101,102,103,104,105,AK-74M,etc... The SKS is not manufactured anymore.
-Both AK and SKS use a long stroke piston system but they are different systems.
-SKS predates the AK and it was quickly phased out by the AK47.
-The SKS was made by all the eastern block countries as well as china, north Korea,etc.. It had an important yet secondary role in some wars. Today it is still used for ceremonial use in Russia.

Cheers,
E.

Gelgoog
February 6, 2011, 09:48 PM
http://izhevsk.club.guns.ru/images/saiga12p.jpg

Uhg, if your going to lecture someone on the Saiga then do it right.

You posted a picture of a sportorized Saiga .308

then posted another picture of a pump action Saiga 12 gauge abomination.

A proper conversion involves more then just opening up the magwell and puting a PG on it.

http://www.k-var.com/shop/images/D/SGL21-67_i.jpg

Saiga converted to its proper form as an AK-103

1stmarine
February 6, 2011, 10:07 PM
Gelgoog,
Different people have different likes and dislikes but that's a beautiful conversion right there. I cannot tell apart from the AK103. Is that yours and made by you or the Arsenal one?

Here some converted and unconverted including the .308 tack driver. I know, not loyal to the original dressing but all the Russian pedigree from Izmash anyway. I choose the furniture for its function FOR ME. Others might be different.

http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z327/fotoeiro/Boltinator/Picture1246.jpg

http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z327/fotoeiro/Boltinator/Picture1279.jpg

http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z327/fotoeiro/30%20cal%20bullets/100_5957.jpg

http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z327/fotoeiro/30%20cal%20bullets/100_5956.jpg

http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z327/fotoeiro/100_6010.jpg

Ithaca37
February 6, 2011, 11:55 PM
Uhg, if your going to lecture someone on the Saiga then do it right.

You posted a picture of a sportorized Saiga .308

then posted another picture of a pump action Saiga 12 gauge abomination.

A proper conversion involves more then just opening up the magwell and puting a PG on it.

meh. My point was made and I did not feel like wasting time finding a good picture due to the fact that fools like the one who stated that there is Saiga rarely care to be educated. Thanks for playing though.

Girodin
February 7, 2011, 03:43 PM
A proper conversion involves more then just opening up the magwell and puting a PG on it

Why in the world would one open up the magwell on a saiga? That is not how one makes regular AK mags work in a saiga. The mag well does not need to be touched. The only reason I can think of that anyone would ever being doing anything that might be able to be classified as opening up the mag well is if they were modifying the front trunnion for use of an AR magazine adapter.

nalioth
February 7, 2011, 04:45 PM
The only reason I can think of that anyone would ever being doing anything that might be able to be classified as opening up the mag well is if they were modifying the front trunnion for use of an AR magazine adapter.That is not a valid reason either. There is no need to mess with the mag well to modify the barrel trunnion.

The answer to your (unquoted) question is "ignorance".

Girodin
February 7, 2011, 05:17 PM
There is no need to mess with the mag well to modify the barrel trunnion.

Yes that is correct, what I was trying to say with the line I have quoted below, and may not have been very clear about, is that even that is not "opening" the mag well but one might erroneously refer to it as such if not making an effort to use correct terminology.

. . . doing anything that might be able to be classified as opening up the mag well is if they were modifying the front trunnion for use of an AR magazine adapter.

1stmarine
February 8, 2011, 01:19 AM
nalioth and Girodin,
you are 100% right.


Everyone,
There is no reason to fiddle with the mag wells. You might need to 'touch' the magazine catch slightly with a stone so the magazines start easier as they get clamped in place. In the process you might want to install one of those tactical ones all together like I did in the tan AK-47 below but nothing is needed in the well. Then the bullet guide but that is a different story anyway.
Do not fiddle with perfectly ok trunnions if you value your rifle, your eye sight and even your life. So those cutting out receivers, trunnions or any other vital component good luck with that.

Cheers.
E.

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