PTR-91 or SA-58


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Boba Debt
February 1, 2011, 08:32 PM
IF money is no object, which would model would you choose from of these 2

PTR-91 K4M4 (Adjustable M-4 Stock, Tri Rail Hand Guard)

Or

DSA SA58 Tactical Carbine With the Extreme Duty Scope Mount, Rail Interface System and Para Stock.


I have read tons of threads and lots of horror stories about both rifles so I'm not sure if I'll go with either.

If you're a fan of either platform try to sell me on it.

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armoredman
February 1, 2011, 08:55 PM
Original post modified with more info, post here removed as irrelevant now. :)

ilove2shoot
February 1, 2011, 09:00 PM
I think he is refering to the SA58 from DSA.....hmmm PTR 91 or a FAL......personally for me, I would choose the FAL rifle.....but I love the FAL.

I do not know if you reload, but if you do.....remember the Ptr has a fluted chamber.

RX-178
February 1, 2011, 09:01 PM
I used to recommend PTR-91s based on how good mine is.

I don't anymore. Don't get me wrong, my PTR-91 is still great, but it's just impossible to deny just how bad the recent production ones are. The 'accurized' barrel that PTR started using is just a bad idea in a delayed blowback weapon, and leads to ammo-pickiness and stuck cases, and the new US-made bolts have a habit of breaking.

I'd go with the FAL nowadays.

Z-Michigan
February 1, 2011, 09:21 PM
Between those two I'd go with the FAL (SA-58) without a second thought. In fact, I once owned, then traded, a PTR-91, and now own an SA-58 and some other FALs. My PTR was fairly well made but I just hated the ergonomics and felt recoil. For me, the FAL is better in every way.

HM2PAC
February 2, 2011, 05:42 AM
FWIW.......

I've reloaded cases from the PTR and original HK. The flute marks are cosmetic only, they do not affect the ability to reload. Neither does the small dent made by ejection. The problem with reloading is that the G3 style rifle flings the brass about 1/4 mile.

As far as pickiness with ammo, my PTR does not seem to display this at all. Most people have difficulty feeding ammo because they do not get the chamber properly cleaned. All dealyed blowback designs are what my friends and I refer to as pigs.....they eat where they $&!^. This can be remedied by purchasing the proper chamber brush.

What turns most people off of the G3 is the ergonomic set. You can not simply expect it to operate as an FAL, M1A, or AR. If you want to make the G3 work for you, you must learn to use it. The charging handle is on the left, there is no bolt hold open after the last round, there is more perceptible recoil, and the trigger is heavy, (around 11 lbs.) The gun itself is not light, weighing in around 10 lbs.

The trade off is that you don't have to take your eyes away from the sights to reload, the chamber is closed when the last round ejects, it is ammo insensitive (no tuning the gas system), it can take a 30 foot drop and the trigger will not be tripped by the impact, you can beat it on a tree, run over it with a tracked vehicle, and still fire the thing. It also has fewer moving parts and field strips quickly.

All that being said, try them both and buy what you like. I love mine, but that's just me.

NWCP
February 2, 2011, 06:14 AM
I would take the CZ SA VZ58 over the PTR any day.

451 Detonics
February 2, 2011, 07:42 AM
If money is no object why not go with a pre ban HK 91? That would be my choice for that platform.

Personally for me it would come down to optics or irons. I prefer the FAL for irons sights and that is the way I shoot mine while I have optics on my Cetme.

fireside44
February 2, 2011, 08:17 AM
DSA SA58 Tactical Carbine With the Extreme Duty Scope Mount, Rail Interface System and Para Stock.

This is exactly what you want. When you have it, you will have a rifle that can do any job well enough.

Get the FAL, you won't be disappointed.

Robert
February 2, 2011, 10:14 AM
FAL

henschman
February 2, 2011, 02:16 PM
FAL.

The PTR-91 is not available with a chrome-lined barrel. The ergonomics are better on a FAL. I like the sling mounts better on the FAL (for use with a GI web sling).

ol' scratch
February 2, 2011, 02:20 PM
I can't speak for the SA, but I owned a PTR and it was ok. I sold it because it destroyed brass. I have never seen a rifle destroy brass like that thing. Because I got into reloading, I sold the rifle.

For the price in a 7.62 Nato, I personally would look for a used M1A. I would say AR 10, but that is out of the price range of the PTR.

ol' scratch
February 2, 2011, 02:21 PM
If money is no object why not go with a pre ban HK 91? That would be my choice for that platform.

Personally for me it would come down to optics or irons. I prefer the FAL for irons sights and that is the way I shoot mine while I have optics on my Cetme.
Probably because they are $3000+, but that is just a guess. You could get a REALLY REALLY nice M1A for that that would shoot rings around an HK 91

Z-Michigan
February 2, 2011, 02:24 PM
I would say AR 10, but that is out of the price range of the PTR.

You can get a new Armalite AR-10 from several places, including several different sellers on Gunbroker, for $1200-1250. That's more than a base PTR, but a lot less than the $1450+ that any SA-58 is going to run, not to mention the $1900 or so for the specific model the OP is asking about. (Of course, there are other quality FALs starting at only $1000 or so.)

ol' scratch
February 2, 2011, 02:27 PM
I just got back from their site and you are right. I can't believe how much they charge for that rifle! It was $1900! Have you considered an AR 10? That AR is more inherently accurate than an FAL.

MRH
February 2, 2011, 05:18 PM
If you reload, how far do you want to go to find your brass? The G3 action throws brass a LONG way, and sometimes really dings it up.

Bushido81
February 3, 2011, 08:56 PM
that breaks my heart b/c i am IN LOVE with the G3/91 and i really wanted to like the PTR-91 but it looks like im gonna have to get a real HK and its gonna be a WHILE before i can afford $3000+ for a rifle

451 Detonics
February 3, 2011, 09:16 PM
You could get a REALLY REALLY nice M1A for that that would shoot rings around an HK 91

I have yet to see a demonstration of this mythical accuracy in person, despite shooting a NM M1A1 myself. My M1A1 is not nearly as reliable as either my FAL or CETME to boot. I don't have any experience with the PTR91s, I am however a school trained HK armorer and built up my CETME myself. It gauges properly, is reliable to a fault and with PRVI will shoot right at 1 inch at 100 yards. For someone unfamilar with the platform I would suggest you find a good smith or go with the FAL. The FAL is the most proven .308 MBR platform made to date. They are reliable and with a good trigger by someone like Williams Trigger Specialties they can be a very accurate rifle as well.

1858
February 3, 2011, 11:04 PM
Or

DSA SA58 Tactical Carbine With the Extreme Duty Scope Mount, Rail Interface System and Para Stock.

I have a DSA SA58 PARA with the EDSM but no RIS. My only complaint is the trigger which is basically terrible, but I plan on having it improved by WTS any day now. It's one of the softest shooting .308s out there, soft enough that I index the scope by pushing my nose up against the rear site. It's heavy, well built and reliable ... lots to like. I doubt that it'll ever be as accurate as my POF P308 and the optic on there is probably overkill. Once I'm done working up a load for it, I'll find a FFP 1-5x or similar which would be a better choice.

http://128.171.62.162/hawthorn-engineering/thr/rifles/dsa/sa58_para/photos/fal_right_side.jpg

HorseSoldier
February 4, 2011, 03:23 AM
FAL

Moose458
February 4, 2011, 10:33 AM
I can't comment on the PTR. I have an orginal HK91 and a DSA FAL, and they are both good guns. Pinned down, I'd have to go with the FAL. Both are reliable, and with a scope mounted and a full mag, they both weight a ton. HK brass is fluted, but I have no problem reloading it. It may not look great, but it works in any of my .308s.

Boba Debt
February 4, 2011, 08:41 PM
Thanks for all the opinions so far.

I'm still undecided on this. I'm actually thinking about building up a Saiga 308 into a SoCom style rifle.

bwsmith
February 4, 2011, 09:15 PM
I love my 2009 PTR MSG91
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=571575

iamkris
February 4, 2011, 09:34 PM
Here's my synopsis of your choices:

FAL

http://i31.tinypic.com/2w1xz0i.jpg

Pro
+ reliable design
+ full power cartridge
+ extremely good ergonomics
+ cheap mags
+ extraordinarily easy to break down, field strip, clean
+ adjustable gas system
Con
+ sights are adequate but better A2 style sights exist
+ triggers not known to be great but they can be improved

HK91/G3/PTR91

http://i35.tinypic.com/19xv7b.jpg

Pro
+ reliable design
+ full power cartridge
+ cheap mags
+ somewhat easy to break down, field strip, clean
+ sights are adequate
Con
+ no bolt hold open
+ abysmal ergonomics - safety selector is near impossible to reach, cocking + handle is in terrible place, mag release is hard to reach
+ Triggers are absolutely horrible but they can be improved

Also, I have a couple of audio podcasts / gun reviews I've posted on the FAL and the G3/PTR91 that you should listen to.

Good luck...they are both great rifles with a storied past...but I prefer the FAL

CETME and PTR91 http://gunreviewpodcast.com/ptr91-and-cetme-kris-from-sw-michigan/ (CETME and PTR91)
FN-FAL http://gunreviewpodcast.com/fn-fal-kris-from-southwest-michigan/ (FN-FAL)

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