45 Auto Rim in S&W revolver--extraction problems


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ExMachina
February 2, 2011, 11:35 AM
i have a brand new S&W 22-4.

i just noticed that it does not like to extract 45AR cartridges--the extracter will pull them out of the chamber and then most/all of the cases will slip UNDER the star and become jammed between the star and the cylinder :eek:

this is incorrect behavior, right???
:scrutiny:

EDIT: i would add that the star itself is not perfect and rotates slightly. my inclination is to send to S&W.

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Dave T
February 2, 2011, 11:53 AM
In their continuing effort to cut production costs S&W eliminated the locator pins that used to position and stabilize the extractor star. In at least some models they also quit making them in the form of a six pointed star and now have an odd looking rectangle for an extractor/ejector. As you are learning, these short cuts do not function as well as the original design did. A sad state of affairs for a once proud and honorable American gun maker.

Dave

highlander 5
February 2, 2011, 11:54 AM
Why aren't you using full moon clips and 45 acp ammo? Sounds like you need to call S&W and hsve them sen you slip to return to have it fixed. But just for chuckles get some Rimz full moon clips and try it with standard 45 acp ammo. Rimz full moon clips are cheap and easy to load.

Jim Watson
February 2, 2011, 11:56 AM
Gun shortcomings aside, it is best to point the muzzle up as you punch the extractor rod so the empties fall clear. And punch it briskly to throw them out, don't ladyfinger it.

Hold the muzzle down when unloading and you will be subject to cases getting under the star with any revolver.

ExMachina
February 2, 2011, 12:11 PM
highlander: full moon clips work fine but the gun should work with AR as well.

JW: agree as to proper technique but it seems like the star could just as easily sweep past the cases when the muzzle's pointed up. and i can't get my other smith to choke like this--it stubbornly holds onto the .44 cases even if i TRY to move the cases out of the star (before they are fully extracted of course)

yeah, back to S&W she goes... :(

MrBorland
February 2, 2011, 12:53 PM
I agree with Jim - it's a technique issue. A .45acp revolver has to have itty bitty star arms to fit between the cases. There's also less room for a rim - there's less actual rim than on a .38 spl cartridge. Since there's less rim and less to catch the rim, it'll be more sensitive to less-than-perfect technique.

I just pulled out my 625 .45acp and dropped some AR cases in there. Yep, they can easily slid past the ejector if you don't get the gun vertical during your reload and/or you give it a wimpy ejection stroke. But, from what I see, it's inherent in the design, and not a gun issue.

Check out this link, and the pics in #48 in particular. It was addressing stuck cases, but could apply to ejection of AR cases from an ACP revolver, too.

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=118081&st=25

ExMachina
February 2, 2011, 01:10 PM
MrBorland, does the star on your 625 rotate? Mine rotates quite a bit, enough that for every one out of three extractions (approximately) the star will not seat but will hang up on the cylinder face.

This makes it impossible to reload the gun (moon clips or ARs).

My suspicion was that this amount of rotation is out of spec. It would also explain why it is so easy for the start to slip past the rims.

But I take your point that the stars on these guns have to be smaller to accommodate the moon clips

9mmepiphany
February 2, 2011, 01:44 PM
the star will not seat but will hang up on the cylinder face.
Call S&W for a return shipping label...that is too much lateral play in the star. Their CNC machining usually works pretty good, but every now and then they get one like this.

i can't get my other smith to choke like this--it stubbornly holds onto the .44 cases
Part of it has to do with case length, the shorter/fatter cases are more likely to fall off, and under, the star because the ejection stroke is too long. The easiest preventive measure you can take is to have the gun vertical when ejecting the cases

woad_yurt
February 2, 2011, 02:53 PM
After you sort out the problems, have a go with the full moon clips and regular ol' .45 ACP. The clips are the best; they make reloading faster than with a speed loader. I wish all of my .38 SPL revolvers used the clips.

How much does that Auto Rim ammo cost anyway? Last I recall, it was $38-$39 per box.

ExMachina
February 2, 2011, 03:15 PM
Yup. got a 45ACP revolver specifically for the moon clips and to have ammo cross-compatibility with my 1911's. Still, I have several reasons for liking AR in some circumstances, not the least of which is that it's a foolproof way to load to +P and keep the rounds out of my 1911.

MrBorland
February 2, 2011, 03:58 PM
MrBorland, does the star on your 625 rotate? Mine rotates quite a bit, enough that for every one out of three extractions (approximately) the star will not seat but will hang up on the cylinder face.

It does rotate a bit, but yours sounds excessive. I agree with 9mmEpiphany, then - call S&W & get a return label...and then keep the gun vertical.

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