No Firearms signs in New Mexico


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captainofiron
February 2, 2011, 02:35 PM
Recently I have been noticing man "No Concealed Carry" and "No Firearms" signs going up all over here in Las Cruces

It is a bit disconcerting to say the least.

I am curious as to what these signs mean in terms of legality and enforcement.

This sign is posted on the entrance to the Electric company
http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/8784/01072011313.jpg

This sign is in an obscure corner of the waiting room at the Texas Roadhouse
http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/3429/01012011294.jpg

And finally, this sign is in the corner of the entryway of the Liquor section of the Walgreens, and not visible until you leave
http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/3932/01022011303.jpg

As you can see the signs refer to either NMAC 10.8.2.16 (E) or 30-7-3

Anybody know the legality? I cant seem to find a good link to read these paragraphs

The only thing I found was a draft of the 10.8 that had many errors in grammar, spelling, and apparently had "track changes" left on

Basically what I am trying to find out, is if I walk into a place that has one of these signs hidden away in a corner, can I get into problems?

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TexasRifleman
February 2, 2011, 02:39 PM
Document here:

http://www.nmcpr.state.nm.us/nmac/parts/title10/10.008.0002.htm

Text of .16

10.8.2.16 TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF LICENSE:
A. Carrying only handguns listed on license. No person shall carry a concealed handgun of a different category or higher caliber than is indicated on the license issued to that person by the department. A licensee shall only carry one (1) concealed handgun at any given time.
B. Consumption of alcohol prohibited. No person shall consume alcohol while carrying a concealed handgun.
C. Carrying while impaired. Pursuant to NMSA 1978 Section 30-7-4, no person shall carry a concealed handgun while impaired by the use of alcohol, controlled substances, or over-the-counter or prescribed medications.
D. Display of license on demand. A licensee carrying a concealed handgun on or about his person in public shall, upon demand by a peace officer, display his license to carry a concealed handgun.
E. Prohibited acts. A licensee shall not deface, alter, mutilate, reproduce, lend, transfer, or sell a license. A licensee shall adhere to NMSA 1978 Section 30-7-4 as it pertains to negligent use of a deadly weapon.
F. Carrying prohibited on private property. In addition to other limitations stated in the act, a licensee may not carry a concealed handgun on or about his person on private property that has signs posted prohibiting the carrying of concealed weapons or when verbally told so by a person lawfully in possession of the property.
G. Carrying prohibited in preschools. As used in Subsection C of NMSA 1978 Section 29-19-8, preschool means a child care facility, whether home-based or center-based, whether or not the facility is licensed, registered, or regulated, that provides care to infants, toddlers, and children aged 5 and younger.
H. Indicia of licensure. No person who is not a law enforcement officer, may carry a badge, patch, card, or any other indication of authority to carry a concealed handgun in New Mexico other than the license issued by the department or a license issued by a state that has been accepted by transfer, recognition or reciprocity by New Mexico pursuant to the act.
I. Notice of change in circumstances. A licensee shall, within 10 calendar days, notify the department in writing of any of the following:
(1) adjudication of mental incompetence;
(2) commitment to a facility for the treatment of mental illness;
(3) commitment to a facility for treatment of addiction to alcohol, controlled substances, or other drugs;
(4) issuance of an order of protection by a court;
(5) indictment for or charge with a felony or one of the misdemeanor offenses described in Subsection B of NMSA 1978 Section 29-19-4;
(6) is no longer a full time salaried law enforcement officer; and
(7) is required to turn in the license within 10 calendar days of the change.

Not sure what the actual crime would be (if any), but it's at least against the Administrative code.

captainofiron
February 2, 2011, 02:53 PM
Thanks

the New Mexico law always confuses me because it seems to point to so many different places which say seems to say nothing in so many words

In the past people have pointed me to

NMSA 1978 Section 29-19-12.C, 30-14-6, 30-7-3 and of course 10.8.2.16

So basically there are no rules for what the sign must look like in Texas, and the private property owner can hide the sign away in the corner. Great

bobbarker
February 3, 2011, 09:48 AM
http://www.handgunlaw.us does a great job of breaking stuff like this down by state. Looks like you already got your answer, but if you haven't checked out this site, it's a great resource for checking any CC questions you have about your state (or any other, for that matter.) I like to go in and periodically read the stuff about my state, as they update any time there is necessity, and recently underwent a huge overhaul. Like I said, worth a look, anyways.

JellyJar
February 3, 2011, 12:31 PM
I believe I have the answer. New Mexico Statues Title 10 Chapter Chapter 8 Part 2.27 states that:

PROHIBITING THE CARRYING OF CONCEALED HANDGUNS ON PRIVATE PROPERTY: Pursuant to Subsection C of NMSA 1978 Section 29-19-12, any person lawfully in possession of private property may prohibit the carrying of concealed handguns on such private property by posting notice in accordance with NMSA 1978 Section 30-14-6 or by verbally notifying persons entering upon the property.

[10.8.2.27 NMAC - N, 11-26-03]

http://www.nmcpr.state.nm.us/nmac/parts/title10/10.008.0002.htm

Well, NMSA 1978 Section 30-14-6 is the NW law that governs no trespassing notice; sign contents; posting and such. That statue states that:

A. The owner, lessee or person lawfully in possession of real property in New Mexico, except property owned by the state or federal government, desiring to prevent trespass or entry onto the real property shall post notices parallel to and along the exterior boundaries of the property to be posted, at each roadway or other way of access in conspicuous places, and if the property is not fenced, such notices shall be posted every five hundred feet along the exterior boundaries of such land.
B. The notices posted shall prohibit all persons from trespassing or entering upon the property, without permission of the owner, lessee, person in lawful possession or his agent. The notices shall:
(1) be printed legibly in English;
(2) be at least one hundred forty*four square inches in size;
(3) contain the name and address of the person under whose authority the property is posted or the name and address of the person who is authorized to grant permission to enter the property;
(4) be placed at each roadway or apparent way of access onto the property, in addition to the posting of the boundaries; and
(5) where applicable, state any specific prohibition that the posting is directed against, such as "no trespassing," "no hunting," "no fishing," "no digging" or any other specific prohibition.
C. Any person who posts public lands contrary to state or federal law or regualtion [regulation] is guilty of a petty misdemeanor.

NM 30-14.1.1 states that:

A. Any person who enters and remains on the lands of another after having been requested to leave is
guilty of a misdemeanor.
B. Any person who enters upon the lands of another when such lands are posted against trespass at every roadway or apparent way of access is guilty of a misdemeanor.
C. Any person who drives a vehicle upon the lands of another except through a roadway or other apparent way of access, when such lands are fenced in any manner, is guilty of a misdemeanor.
D. In the event any person enters upon the lands of another without prior permission and injures, damages or destroys any part of the realty or its improvements, including buildings, structures, trees, shrubs or other natural features, he shall be liable to the owner, lessee or person in lawful possession for damages in an amount equal to double the amount of the appraised value of the damage of the property injured or destroyed.

In other words if the signs are not in a conspicuous place and/or at the entrances of businesses and of a certain size then they are apparently not legal.

Please note that I am not a lawyer so I would just not go to any place that I know is posted in anyway just to be on the safe side.

Take Care

JJ

Edit: Here is the last link http://www.emnrd.state.nm.us/FD/ForestMgt/LE/Law.htm

Harley Quinn
February 3, 2011, 12:39 PM
I think you are going to see more of that in all states that have the ability to carry ccw...One thing to carry and have in Vehicle another to go into private property and not expect some sort of demand by those who are in control...

It makes sense to me about responsibility and not wanting to be sued down the road for a problem concerning AD or ND on premise, of private property...

Your rights, do not trump others rights:D

sansone
February 3, 2011, 12:49 PM
las cruces is on the border with mexico. Recently I was returning from there to my property in alamogordo and got surprised by a border patrol inspection. They had the road blocked and searched my truck. Everybody coming up from las cruces got this treatment, but not the other direction.. back on topic, maybe there is trouble in that town. Still I would want to CC regardless of the sign. Another reason for me to make certain my cc weapon is very concealed

JellyJar
February 3, 2011, 01:00 PM
After making my post above I went back and looked at the sign in the first picture in the OP's orginal post. That sign references 10.8.2.16 (E). Well here is that part of the statue:

E. Prohibited acts. A licensee shall not deface, alter, mutilate, reproduce, lend, transfer, or sell a license. A licensee shall adhere to NMSA 1978 Section 30-7-4 as it pertains to negligent use of a deadly weapon.

I think the owner of that store is confused He really meant part F!

F. Carrying prohibited on private property. In addition to other limitations stated in the act, a licensee may not carry a concealed handgun on or about his person on private property that has signs posted prohibiting the carrying of concealed weapons or when verbally told so by a person lawfully in possession of the property.

I am unsure if the part in my first post about posting in conspicuous places, applies here but I don't see how it doesn't. After all I don't see any part of 10.8.2 that proscribes any penalty for carrying where posted.

Again I am not a lawyer. Perhaps the OP should consult one.

RobXD9
February 4, 2011, 04:13 PM
The posted sign at Texas Roadhouse is required for restaurants which served alcohol.

Now that the law has changed to allow carry in beer/wine licensed establishment we're not sure what exactly is required as far as posting.

At this time there's no sign required on the door of restaurants with a full liquor license.

The new legislation proposed in Santa Fe this month would end all of that however.

Joe in fla
February 4, 2011, 04:19 PM
I think you are going to see more of that in all states that have the ability to carry ccw...One thing to carry and have in Vehicle another to go into private property and not expect some sort of demand by those who are in control...

It makes sense to me about responsibility and not wanting to be sued down the road for a problem concerning AD or ND on premise, of private property...

Your rights, do not trump others rights:D
When they first passed CC here in Florida back in the 1980s a lot of stores had those signs up but I don't know of a single one that's still posted. I guess their gun owning customers made a believer out of them or else they realized that there was nothing to fear. I expect that they'll disappear in NM before long too.

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