Bought a KelTec RFB...what to expect in accuracy?


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Chopdoktor
February 3, 2011, 08:17 PM
Hey, shooters. I just bought a Kel Tec RFB which will arrive next week. I'd like to hear from some fellow RFB owners (folks who OWN or have extensively shot the RFB only, please) on what to expect in the field of accuracy, and what loads (bullet weight, brands, etc) have you had the best luck with? I've read a few reviews that claim possible sub-MOA accuracy with the right load. Thanks in advance for any info, or tips in general. Okay, then... Enlighten me!

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Carter
February 3, 2011, 08:26 PM
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=432775

There is some info in there.
As well other info.

jerkface11
February 3, 2011, 09:15 PM
The next RFB owner to post a real group will be the first.

Chopdoktor
February 3, 2011, 09:20 PM
I'll try to shoot some groups when I get it. I'll tell you, though, I won't come close to representing a rifle's true potential. I practice a lot more 'fast-n-dirty' combat shooting than I do precision marksmanship, though I can shoot a just-barely sub-moa group with my Savage 110 bolt-gun and some good Hornady ammo. In short: don't expect a ragged hole at 100 yards :-) haha

Girodin
February 4, 2011, 02:08 AM
I was going to say that maybe you could go shoot some groups. I've had a hard time finding any real good reports online as to the RFB's accuracy. That fact alone has made me wonder.

SpeedAKL
February 4, 2011, 09:12 AM
There just doesn't seem to be a ton of info on the gun in general either in the media or on the message boards. It's a shame because it looks like a really neat concept and I'd like to hear more about accuracy and reliability.

wally
February 4, 2011, 12:37 PM
I've only seen three offered for sale so far at a "low" price of $1695 and a high of $1899 IMHO way to high to take a chance on.

TIMC
February 4, 2011, 02:55 PM
I had been working with mine but work got in the way and I have not had time to finish load developement. I am running 168 grain berger VLD hunting bullets out of my RFB. My biggest issue during load developement was finding a comfortable shooting position on the bench with the RFB. What I have so far does work well. This is a 100 yard target the low left was me pushing the rifle over, the rest were right in there.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v369/timc/8x57mmMauserIMR4895CCIprimers300OAL.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v369/timc/RFBwithJPbrakepic1.jpg

JShirley
February 4, 2011, 02:59 PM
fellow RFB owners (folks who OWN or have extensively shot the RFB only

Good luck with that. I would bet there are very few shooters who have "extensively" shot an RFB.

i loves my gun
February 4, 2011, 03:29 PM
i just cant get my self to like that forward push ejection stuff going on.... watch all the shells fall out, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9Xqa2vwq60 , just seems ridiculous, though, however that boxer girl that was promoting them when they first came out, almost got me to buy one

^^ that video will blow your speakers out

Justin
February 4, 2011, 03:29 PM
I'd love to see someone run an RFB in 3-Gun Heavy Metal division. On paper, it seems like it would be a good choice.

Chopdoktor
February 4, 2011, 03:43 PM
TIMC looks like he squeezed out about a 1.5" group, minus the flyer he accounted for. I'm sure with further load development that could be cut down. Anyway, for those who are curious, I ended up paying $1699 for mine, and it came with 2 extra mags and set of Magpul BUIS. Discounting those 'bonus' items, I guess the cost was technically about 1600. I sold an M1A SOCOM-II to finance this little venture, so hopefully it will be worth it. At any rate, TIMC's group matches about what I could manage out of the SOCOM-II at the same distance.

zstephens13
February 4, 2011, 05:06 PM
I never knew that about the RFB. It just poops those spent casings right out the front. Very strange.

TIMC
February 4, 2011, 05:51 PM
TIMC looks like he squeezed out about a 1.5" group, minus the flyer he accounted for. I'm sure with further load development that could be cut down. Anyway, for those who are curious, I ended up paying $1699 for mine, and it came with 2 extra mags and set of Magpul BUIS. Discounting those 'bonus' items, I guess the cost was technically about 1600. I sold an M1A SOCOM-II to finance this little venture, so hopefully it will be worth it. At any rate, TIMC's group matches about what I could manage out of the SOCOM-II at the same distance.

I agree I think I can get her down to 1" at 100 yards with some more load developement. I wouldn't feel uncomfortable taking a shot with it as is out to 200 yards. I took this little doe with a neck shot right at 137 yards according to my laser range finder.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v369/timc/Hunting%20pics/deerpic2.jpg

These two pigs were close to 100 yards when I dropped them with my RFB.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v369/timc/Hunting%20pics/RFBpighunt.jpg

The one thing I had to do was add a muzzle brake to my RFB. Pig hunting requires fast followup shots because I am usually trying to drop multiple targets. The muzzle rise on the RFB was not acceptable for a pig hunter but the JP Enterprises recoil eleiminator solved that; she is just too loud now to shoot without ear protection.

Chopdoktor
February 4, 2011, 05:57 PM
Nice pics, for sure. I will be adding a PWS FSC-30 muzzle brake to mine, as I've been superbly impressed with the 5.56 version. I also ordered that quad rail you have on yours. How do you like it? I'll be running the Mako grip/bipod and an EOTech 551... perhaps with a magnifier.

TIMC
February 4, 2011, 06:13 PM
I like the quad rail a lot. I have a laser mounted on mine, it locks down tight and holds great. I did think the price was a little high but hey I already spent too much on the gun so why not on the quad rail! LOL

Chopdoktor
February 4, 2011, 06:27 PM
No joke! I'm bidding on one now, and it looks as if I'll snag it for under a hundo. That Mako grip and bipod will be fantastic, I think. Your grip-pod looks like it gets the job, done, too. Any suggestions on a progressive press for reloading? I know Dillon is supposedly the best, but I don't want to have to sell a kidney to buy one, haha...

TIMC
February 4, 2011, 10:13 PM
I've been running a Lee Classic turret press for several years now. I know Lee is not the best but I can buy turrets for $10 a piece and since I load to about 15 different calibers that is much more affordable than the Dillon turrets.

Chopdoktor
February 4, 2011, 10:46 PM
How many .308 cartridges can you crank out per hour, would you say?

TIMC
February 5, 2011, 12:31 AM
If cases are preped and ready to go I run about 50 per hour in rifle and about 100 per hour pistol.

Chopdoktor
February 5, 2011, 12:46 AM
Ok. I was thinking about investing in a Dillon progressive press. Is it worth it? (thread derailment, I know, but it is MY thread, haha)

JDMorris
February 5, 2011, 12:58 AM
I like the idea of forward ejection, if someone is shooting on the bench next to me, typically my dad, I get mad when a piece of .223 brass hits me in the head, even worse when he uses the .22 conversion and i get a spray of brass. :(
also makes it easier for a handloader.. and if used in a military situation, you wont see anything like this.. *warning mild language* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxQXBueF4Bc

Chopdoktor
February 5, 2011, 01:04 AM
Haha, JD, that's funny. My girlfriend knows better than to wear a low-cut shirt while shooting with me (handguns in particular). She's learned her lesson the hard way, once or twice before!

JShirley
February 6, 2011, 12:09 PM
Good shooting, TIMC. :) I really wanted a RFB, but a friend I spoke to, who shot one of the first SNs, said that firing it sounded...dangerous to the shooter. :what:

Hoping it was just that early model. I'm a KT fan in general, but I want adequate return on a $1600 investment.

John

TIMC
February 6, 2011, 08:07 PM
Good shooting, TIMC. I really wanted a RFB, but a friend I spoke to, who shot one of the first SNs, said that firing it sounded...dangerous to the shooter.

Hoping it was just that early model. I'm a KT fan in general, but I want adequate return on a $1600 investment.

John

Mine was one of the first 600 and not without issue. I had the gas block blow up on the second round I put through the gun. apperantly there were some heat treating issues with the first gas blocks and I wa lucky enough to get one. The repair was quick and Kel-Tec had me shooting within 3 weeks. I am very happy with the gun now and have several hundred rounds through it.
The gun is very loud because your ears are so close to the muzzle but it is not bad with ear plugs.

armoredman
February 6, 2011, 08:44 PM
I still want one. The dream is a two gun battery of RFB and KSG. A co-worker just let slip he was AT the SHOT show and handled the KSG, said it felt very well made. Add that to an RFB, aka reloaders dream, oh yeah...

Maverick223
February 7, 2011, 02:28 AM
I still want one. The dream is a two gun battery of RFB and KSG.I'm right there with you.

P.S.: Did you decide whether or not to get a M17S? The long-running champ of bullpup rifles.

:)

armoredman
February 7, 2011, 04:17 PM
Would have to find one locally, quite inexpensive, a near impossability. Darn.

Maverick223
February 7, 2011, 04:22 PM
Agreed, finding one at all (locally anyway) is a crapshoot, and the prices have been steadily creeping upwards. My best advice is just to keep looking at gunshows and you might get lucky.

:)

wally
February 7, 2011, 05:52 PM
I've seen a total of five at local gun shows these past two shows asking prices were:

$1795 & 1695 at HGCA show two weeks ago.
And $1995, 1795, & 1645 at last weeks GRB show.

I'd probably bite at $1500, unless all of a sudden every dealer had them -- which often happens with the SU-2000 models, where when they are scarce the asking price is ~$350-400, when all the major dealers have them they run $279-299.

Bud's "last sold" price was $1290, but they have been out of stock for months.

armoredman
February 8, 2011, 08:01 PM
At that price they can keep them, not going to happen. I'll wait for a good financial year to save for an RFB, and concentrate on having fun with the vz-58. ;)
Thanks for the info, guys!

Chopdoktor
February 8, 2011, 09:07 PM
Just picked up the RFB today at the shop, and I am IMPRESSED! Feels pretty great. Very hefty and solid (not heavy by any means), and shoulders well. The trigger is very crisp and seems lighter than it really is. My only gripe out of all the features is the charging handle. I would prefer a more curved hook style made of metal, like on an M1A, but that wouldn't be conducive to flipping it for ambidextrous capability, I suppose. Altogether, I love it, so far. I'll chime in again after I take it out, sight in the EOTech 551 that goes on top, and run several mags through it.... stay tuned...

JDMorris
February 8, 2011, 09:57 PM
I like the little gun, but I'd honestly rather have an M1A.

Chopdoktor
February 8, 2011, 10:39 PM
I had an M1A SOCOM-II. It weighed 14.5lbs fully loaded (25rnd mag) with a Troy MCS stock, MOE grip and ACS butt-stock, EOTech 511, and a Mako foregrip. And all that weight pretty much began 10 inches from my shoulder. Way too heavy, and way too much gun out in front for my liking. Plus, it only had a 16" barrel, whereas the RFB sports an 18", and is way shorter. I sold the SOCOM-II because it had essentially nothing on the RFB in terms of weight, velocity, accuracy or any of that. I'm not bashing the venerable M1A by any means, but the Kel Tec is simply superior for my criteria.... at least on paper. We'll see how much more (if any) that I like it. It better be a lot, because I loved my M1A, except for the bulk and weight.

henschman
February 8, 2011, 11:20 PM
M1A's are light if you don't weigh them down with a metal chasis stock and all those rails. 9.3 lbs. for a standard 22", and 8.8 lbs. for a Scout.

Still not as light as an RFB though.

I will probably buy one when they come out with the 24" barreled version. I am not a big fan of short-barreled .308s. I hope the 24" "sporter" will still have a chrome-lined barrel that is not super heavy profile. I'd like to keep the rifle light.

I like the concept, but I wish it had a front sight tower on the end of the barrel. You can't put a proper set of iron sights on it the way it is, unless you want pistol sight radius and 3 MOA clicks or something like that with AR sights.

Good iron sights are a must for a battle rifle IMO.

Chopdoktor
February 9, 2011, 12:06 AM
Good points, henschman. Considering them, I can add 4" to the sight radius by putting the forward BUIS on a riser on the rail system available for the rifle ( http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=215147825 ). There are some fine-adjustment BUIS out there, allowing for good precision. To clarify my previous post a bit, I should add that I don't mind a rifle with some weight, but I do care where the weight is balanced- in the case of the RFB, it's all very close to my chest. The same 8 lbs in an M1A feels heavier because of leverage, where the RFB holds it close and relies your frame to support much of the weight. That's a reason I dig bullpups.

A_Matthew
February 9, 2011, 01:42 AM
http://www.gunblast.com/KelTec-RFB.htm

Here's a good review on the RFB. He seems to like it quite a bit.

You ever that of putting a can on that?:rolleyes: (With a license, of course.;))

Congrats on your purchase.:) Do we get any pics? Or are you going to let us suffer.:mad::) Matthew

jerkface11
February 9, 2011, 02:22 AM
That article didn't really address accuracy. He posted a couple of 3 shot groups. One of them was good one was awful.

General Geoff
February 9, 2011, 02:42 AM
jerkface, from the article:
Federal Gold Medal 168 grain hollowpoint was by far the most accurate ammunition tested in this RFB carbine, grouping reliably under three-quarters of an inch for three shots at one hundred yards. The military ball ammo grouped closer to two inches.
Seems like the rifle is up to the task, as long as you use match-grade ammunition.

Chopdoktor
February 9, 2011, 08:35 AM
Yeah, a suppressor is always a possibility. I've recently met a very skilled machinist who would be up for assisting me in designing and machining one, per regulation on a form 1 build. If I do a suppressor, it will definitely be the 'reflex' style that contours back over the barrel, allowing for more volume, less length, and better suppression. I wanna keep the package compact.

I've read over that Gunblast review many times (I like his reviews as much as his beard, haha), and the 3/4 MOA with match ammo sounded very promising. I'll post pics soon! Definitely this weekend. Soon, fellas!

jerkface11
February 9, 2011, 01:17 PM
One three shot group tells me nothing. I'd like to see where someone has worked up a load and shot several 5 shot groups.

Girodin
February 9, 2011, 04:07 PM
Seems like the rifle is up to the task, as long as you use match-grade ammunition.

I'm going to echo the sentiment that one three shot group is not something one can reasonably use to draw any conclusions. Three shot groups are not great indicators and the sample size of one is less than ideal as well.

AnimeFanatic5602
April 23, 2012, 12:19 AM
I like the idea of forward ejection, if someone is shooting on the bench next to me, typically my dad, I get mad when a piece of .223 brass hits me in the head, even worse when he uses the .22 conversion and i get a spray of brass. :(
also makes it easier for a handloader.. and if used in a military situation, you wont see anything like this.. *warning mild language* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxQXBueF4Bc
I had a chance to shoot some Israeli surplus 9mm about a year and a half ago. While I was firing, one of the spent cases flew back and tagged me. I can imagine that the RFB would be much easier on both the shooter and those in the general vicinity.

nyresq
May 26, 2012, 10:35 PM
My 308 POF has some ferocious muzzle blast with the 14.5/16" barrel, I can only imagine what it must be like having the muzzle 6" infront of your face with some hot 308 loads!!!

I handled one in a LGS on wednesday, the smith was welding on a JP brake and blocking the magazines (NY compliant), and it felt pretty good. Decent balance and ergonomics, but I kept wondering what kind of blast the shooters gets to the face being so close to the muzzle...

TurtlePhish
May 26, 2012, 10:52 PM
I'll post pics soon! Definitely this weekend. Soon, fellas!

I wonder what happened to this. :rolleyes:

There must be some forget-to-post-pics curse on all the RFBs.

C'Thulhu
May 27, 2012, 12:12 AM
Well, I'm not the thread starter, but I'll help ya out Turtle.

jerkface11
May 27, 2012, 12:31 AM
There must be some forget-to-post-pics curse on all the RFBs.

It goes along with not posting groups.

leadcounsel
May 27, 2012, 12:54 AM
Love to handle and maybe even own one.... they are a unicorn of sorts.

TurtlePhish
May 27, 2012, 11:30 AM
C'thulhu, that's awesome. I'm jealous.

wally
May 27, 2012, 01:55 PM
My RFB, when it is working and not at Kel-Tec, suffers vertical stringing when shooting off sandbags, if typical, that would likely explain why it doesn't produce photo worthy groups of more than about three shots.

In fact I've shot tighter groups kneeling than I've gotten off sandbags, something that has never happened with any other gun in my 30+ years of shooting.

I'd guess the way the gas exits up front messes things up when shooting from a support. Last time out I tried my suppressor on it and it seemed to reduce the vertical stringing, but I was really more concerned about function testing since its last repair, so by time I got to try the suppressor the gas regulator was too hot and fouled to adjust and so much gas blew back at me I could barely stand to shoot 5 shots.

I must say I love the way it handles shooting standing, kneeling and sitting, too bad mine has not been reliable even after three trips back to Kel-Tec and two broken part exchanges, jury is still out of if the last broken part exchange has cured the issues. My longest run without a stoppage has so far been 196 rounds :(

C'Thulhu
May 27, 2012, 08:20 PM
Yeah, I haven't had a chance to do any real accuracy shooting. Just a couple mag dumps now and then. Still, once I got the gas system dialed in I haven't had a failure yet.

B!ngo
May 27, 2012, 08:34 PM
As a lefty, and often interested in unique technology, I've been interested in that gun for a while. But the more I read about Kel-Tec and the stories of their gun owners, the more I am turned off.
They market these interesting designs (e.g. the .308 of the OP, their new shotgun) and then take a year to begin selling them. Then they seem to build far too few for the market, availability is unpredictable, and they get auctioned off for more than their retail price.
Then the early customers (if not all) become beta testers and help debug their early units.
It's like buying Ferrari's. If you've bought a few, you get pushed to the top of the list for a new model, and pay quite a bit more for the honor. Most others have to wait in line for a year or more, IF your local dealer will accept your money. But at least you know this going in to the deal. And unlike Kel-Tec, Ferrari's now actually work.
But I'm sure they are profitable and it seems like an enjoyable hobby for them.
(sorry, I'm just a bit miffed at these KT folks).
B

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