AR in 2012?


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Durty
February 4, 2011, 12:57 AM
Since my wife influenced me heavily into resolving (for new years) to not purchase a firearm in 2011, I am of course already looking forward to Jan 1, 2012. So, with months and months of thinking and planning, what should I get next year? I have contemplated heavily on getting an AR but I cannot really convince myself of a purpose or use for one.. I have plenty of good rifles to shoot deer, pigs, and varmints with. I have no need for a shotgun- my Xtrema 2 has already taken the place of all my others and they werent even touched this season. I have a nice Glock and a reliable revolver.. So all my niches seem to be filled. Except I don't have an AR. But I can't see much use for one. That's why I am having a hard time justifying spending over a grand on something I don't necessarily have a use for other than just being a toy. What do yall use your ARs for? I really think mine would just be a toy to take out and play with. Shoot paper and cans and the occasional critter.. but its nothing I can't do with my 22s or my 22-250. This is why I am having a hard time justifying spending that kind of money. I know there are many AR enthusiasts on this forum so I am hoping to learn something from you.

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Lvl21nerd
February 4, 2011, 01:08 AM
you may not have a use for it now but when society crumbles...

mshootnit
February 4, 2011, 01:08 AM
Well how are you for lever actions? Might be some more 94's available by then.

As far as AR's, you may have your bases covered but they are a blast to shoot. I took out my '74 and my buddy took out his Colt M4 and we blasted the heck out of stuff, I walked away from there begrudgingly admitting to myself that the Colt "rocked" just a little bit better.

jpwilly
February 4, 2011, 01:12 AM
I find it hard to believe that one couldn't find a use for an AR-15. But if that is truely the case I'd recommend an M1A. I too have quite a few rifles in many different calibers. Plinking with an AR is a lot of fun and it ends up making it to quite a few range trips just because of that.

mshootnit
February 4, 2011, 01:14 AM
If you buy and AR for when society crumbles it may be in the hands of your great-great grandson before that happens. When society crumbles you won't want an AR. M16s are for professional soldiers, not poor holdouts. Even professional soldiers have a hard time keeping them running. Read about the dead (brave) soldiers at Wanat, Afghanistan.

Omaha-BeenGlockin
February 4, 2011, 01:28 AM
Aren't New Year's resolutions officially null and void by Feb 1st? Just sayin;)

frankenstein406
February 4, 2011, 01:33 AM
Ar 10?

patsygarret
February 4, 2011, 01:33 AM
my co worker often said the exact same thing, then he got one and shoots it constantly. then again he also got a can and 2nd gen night vision on it.

Durty
February 4, 2011, 01:35 AM
As far as lever actions, I have a model 94 limited edition 30-30 and a Henry 22. I'm set there for now. I would eventually like a Marlin to put a scope on but that's not on my radar now. For now, I am just looking for help in justifying buying an AR! I am open to buying it in parts over time. I know some recommend this and others do not.

husker
February 4, 2011, 01:47 AM
Since you have all bases covered with smokeless powders. Take the money & come over to the dark side,& try some black powder revolvers-n-rifles. Its a hole other ball game. & a ton of fun.

Durty
February 4, 2011, 01:56 AM
Yeah I shot a real heavy 9 pointer on our farm in TN with a muzzle loader a few years ago and I enjoyed it. But honestly, I don't think it gave me "the bug" if you know what I mean. But who knows. I probly ought to spend some more time with one.

husker
February 4, 2011, 02:28 AM
Putting a rifle kit together is a lot of fun. Its a lil out side the box.
I have never hunted with one yet. Some day maybe a deer.

Durty
February 4, 2011, 12:29 PM
What kind of rifle kit do you suggest? That would be fun. I always like tinkering with my toys.

Robert
February 4, 2011, 12:33 PM
I love to shoot Tactical Rifle matches. Makes me a better shot and is a heck of a lot of fun. I also shoot Prairie Dogs from time to time so my AR pulls double duty. Factor in that it is very easy on recoil I can use it as a training and education tool for some folks I know that are curious about shooting, and firearms in general.

X-Rap
February 4, 2011, 12:39 PM
I have got AR's for each of my kids and have a couple left for some close friends if needed.
They come in many shapes and sizes and even colors (my daughters is purple). To me it is one of the last guns I'd get rid of.

smokinfeathers
February 4, 2011, 05:04 PM
I like the ar's because they are easy to shoot, accurate and very easy to customize and change calibers. I have uppers in 22lr, 223,6 x45,6.8 and 7.62x39. I use them for plinking, Nra high power, deer,hog,varmints. My young kids use the one with the 6 position stock to play with 22lr and with 223 or 6x45 to hunt with. can change calibers in less than 30 seconds. my heavy barrel ar shoots under 1/2" moa and beats my custom 700 bolt guns.

get one you will like it and probably get the fever and end up with a bunch of stuff. very fun and easy to build and modify.

you can also get into one for a good bit less than 1K. I have picked up parts here and there and built them for less than half that.

high country
February 4, 2011, 06:24 PM
I second many of the posts above, an AR is just plain fun to own and shoot. They are accurate, low on recoil, and plinking fodder is pretty cheap. Little parts to make it yours can be bought here and there without too much cash outlay.

And, next time your wife makes you promise not to buy another rifle for a year, you will still have the option of buying a new upper, which is like buying a whole new gun, but technically is not :)

If you haven't had a chance to shoot one, find someone that owns one and go out for an afternoon of plinking or target shooting (make sure you are somewhere that you have the option of backing up a couple hundred yards, which is where the AR really shines).

Zanad
February 4, 2011, 06:33 PM
check out delton rifle kits (http://www.del-ton.com/ar_15_kits_s/1.htm). del-ton has the best kits for the money.


oh, and if you get a rifle kit, you technically still don't have a gun because you still have to buy the receiver (by law the part of the gun with the serial # is the gun).

Joe in fla
February 4, 2011, 06:55 PM
Mshootnit said: M16s are for professional soldiers, not poor holdouts. Even professional soldiers have a hard time keeping them running. Read about the dead (brave) soldiers at Wanat, Afghanistan.

What are you taking about? The Army has investigated and said that the USA deaths at Wanat were due to bad decisions by their officers, poor planning and poor tactics. I haven't heard a word blaming it on the weapons involved. Here's a copy of what they said:

"It its final report, the Army has absolved those top commanders and instead blames the deadly outcome on the confusing and unpredictable nature of war -- and on decisions made by the platoon commander who was killed in the battle. "

FWIW my son is an armorer in the USMC and is currently responsible for ~3,000 weapons (mostly M-16s) and has made three deployments to Iraq and he's had no complaints about the M-16s!

PS You don't need to be patronizing. You weren't there and you didn't see what happened, you don't know if those soldiers were "brave" or not. More likely they were desperate and just trying to come out of an extremely bad situation alive. Calling them "dead (brave) soldiers" while in context of complaining about their weapons comes across as extremely patronizing and just cheapens their memories and makes you sound condescending.

nwilliams
February 4, 2011, 06:58 PM
I can't imagine going more than a couple months without a new firearm purchase, let alone a whole year!

You are a stronger man than I;)

An AR is just fun to have and one of the joys of the AR platform is that you can customize it and build it exactly to your liking and it will feel more like your own gun.

high country
February 4, 2011, 07:32 PM
x2 on the del-ton kits. I started my habit with a chrome lined midlength from them. I have upgraded this and that, and added another upper to go with it since. Someone will pipe up soon and say go with BCM or Spikes, etc. - i.e. do it right the first time. There is a lot of merit to that approach, but for me, assembling a kit, and messing with it was the main draw because the gun didn't really serve a purpose other than being a neat project and fun gun. I didn't really want to do it right the first time, but rather start cheaper with the basics, figure out what I liked and didn't like about the platform (e.g. triggers, barrel length, iron sights vs. red dot vs. optics, handguards, buttstocks, etc.), and build something that fit my needs over time, while having a servicable rifle to shoot in the meantime. I'm still doing that, and enjoying every time I pull the trigger or tweak something to make it work better for me.

Durty
February 4, 2011, 08:05 PM
Fellas, I appreciate all the input. When I go to the occasional gun show I see tables full of black guns- especially ARs. But, I can never usually find what I am looking for (old classics). And I have always thought, "There must be something to the black guns if they are this popular." I have shot a mini 14 and my buddy's Remington R15 hunting platform, which is fun. It's long and heavy, which I don't necessarily mind. But I am thinking I would enjoy something a little smaller. One thing I definitely see myself having is a match grade barrel in whatever AR I eventually own. One of my favorite past times with my 22-250 is knocking a bird or squirrel out of a tree at distances past 200 yards. It's just plain fun. And I can see myself having similar fun with a super accurate AR. I am a hunter and a liar like everyone else (especially online) but I have to tell yall this: I shot the best 5 shot group of my life 2 weekends ago at our property outside Fredericksburg. It was a hair less than 2.5 inches at 400 yards with the 22-250. Wind was very gentle and right in my face and it was overcast out so mirage wasn't bad. I usually try not to shoot groups because I get all whacked out in my head over it but I just had to try because the conditions were so good. The rifle is a Rem 700 VLS and it usually groups 5 shots around .75 which is fine by my standards. But for some reason it just went lights out with that one group. Anyway, I just wanted to tell yall about it.

Durty
February 4, 2011, 08:30 PM
I have another question about ARs in general: would yall suggest buying one used? I know there are obvious risks involved, but it seems more risky than say buying a bolt action or a pump gun used because there are so many moving parts that rely on each other's performance to function properly. Higher-end AR used or lower-end AR brand new?

Polar Express
February 4, 2011, 09:03 PM
I don't mean to tell a fella how to spend his money, but I got a piece of advice from a wiser man once... you don't need a reason to buy a gun.


The way I look at it, women buy purses and shoes. Men buy guns and tools. Neither need a reason to buy what they like, it's cuz they want it.

Just a thought, coming from a single guy....

PE

mshootnit
February 4, 2011, 09:16 PM
You need to search and read more about Wanat apparently. There were several jammed rifles found among the dead men. They were brave. Suggesting that I am cheapening anyone's memory pisses me off. In this volunteer force it took balls just to be there. No-one was there against their will. They were BRAVE. And the M4 will eventually jam in a heavy firefight if the cyclical rate of fire is exceeded. It may also jam due to other factors. This is well documented and beyond reproach. God bless your son.

Quentin
February 4, 2011, 10:56 PM
mshootnit, you are right that soldiers are brave. You are wrong saying there is a major problem with the M4. It works just fine thank you. You need to read objective tests on its reliability, it is surprising how reliable it is.

high country
February 5, 2011, 12:05 AM
Durty, the insight on what you like about your other guns is helpful. The .223 doesn't shoot as fast and flat as a .22-250, but it is still pretty flat. Where I like it hunting is when I am shooting prairie dogs a couple hundred yards out. I can use the dots in the scope to estimate range based on the standing height of the p-dog, then take shot and watch the bullet hit because a 20" HBAR upper with a weight in the stock has 0 recoil. If I am off, I can immediately correct for the next shot a fraction of a second later, before the target has a chance to move, without moving my body to manipulate the action. I have hunted prairie dogs with a bolt action (admittedly never a .22-250), and my success rate is much much higher with the AR.

I wouldn't buy one used unless I knew the seller pretty well... It is up to you on that one, but make sure you do your research to make sure what you are getting is what you want, and is really cheaper than buying new. If someone bought the gun in the last few years, they may be trying to recoup the ridiculous amount of money they spent on it. Prices of AR parts have come down in the last year or so, and I have seen a lot of used ARs with asking prices that are higher than what I could build it for out of new parts.

EDIT - I agree with the comments above - no gun purchases for a year?!? What if you sell something else that is taking up space in your safe? Did she agree not to buy any unnecessary fashion accessories, shoes, purses, or accent pillows (make no mistake my friend, those accent pillows cost more than you think)?

Durty
February 5, 2011, 01:47 AM
Polar Express, I completely agree. It wasn't until she started feeling like she was playing 2nd fiddle to my obsession that I decided I could go 12 months without buying another gun. And in all truth, I can say I have never felt 2nd place to her shoes, purses, job, or friends. And she deserves the same. I am not saying I am strong enough to do it. But similar to other recovering addicts, I say, "I'm not sure if I am going to buy a gun tomorrow or next week. But I'm not going to buy one today!" Yet, at the same time, I have learned fantastic methods of justification over the years. So it wouldn't surprise me if a few months from now I open my safe and see a new shiney toy sitting there smiling at me...

Durty
February 5, 2011, 01:54 AM
High Country- good information. Appreciate it. I didn't know prices on parts have come down in the past year. That will help my decision. It is difficult and daunting looking into something so foreign to me where the possibilities are endless. And hearing how easy it is to dump a bunch of cash into one is worrisome as well.

RockyMtnTactical
February 5, 2011, 06:14 AM
Man, you gotta wait until 2012 to buy another gun? You have more self control than me...

madcratebuilder
February 6, 2011, 08:07 AM
Just a thought, coming from a single guy....

Some men are fools...others are single.


j/k

My wife may roll hers eye's when she hears me mention prices, I just bring up her last weekend at the spa retreat.

lilquiz
February 6, 2011, 08:41 AM
First of all an AR platform is very useful. It has many options for many calibers , not just 5.56. Second I and any married man here has felt your pain. I would like to inquire on just how bad your gun buying got. If you were cut down to none, it sounds like one of those comprimise things.Jst remember if you have an addiction... we will help you ,but we don't want to.:evil:

epijunkie67
February 6, 2011, 10:36 AM
I didn't read the whole thread but consider this. Just because you get/build an AR doesn't mean it has to be .223. It doesn't have to be a high speed, low drag 16" carbine. What about a .50 upper or a 6.8 upper? A long range target rifle?

You wondered why you would need an AR I don't NEED most of the guns I own. Realistically, as long as you have something for self defense and something to hunt big and little critters with you don't NEED any more guns. I've got a lever 30-30 and another in 35 Remington. I don't need both of them but they are both fun so I keep both anyway.

The AR is very modular and lends itself to a variety of user customization. After getting one assembled you can change almost everything about it just by ordering uppers and parts through the mail. It can be one gun that is many guns. That alone is an excellent reason to need one.

Quentin
February 6, 2011, 11:13 AM
Well if you have to wait a year to buy an AR, there are positives: you get a year to research (DO IT!) and no doubt new rifles and components will be introduced. I don't know if prices will be better though, it seems they've already bottomed out.

Looking back to 2010, the lightweight midlength 14.5-16" barrels were the hot new thing. No doubt we'll see something break out this year.

Hey Durty, I've got an idea to help hold you over - stock up on ammo and magazines this year! The price is right, right now!

Durty
February 6, 2011, 04:08 PM
Yeah guys I was thinking very similar thoughts. I am going to bide my time filling my brain with lots of information that mostly comes from others' experience. And yes, Q, I will begin the process of mag/reloading component purchasing as soon as I figure out which one I will aquire. Junkie- you mentioned something that I have given thought to. Perhaps the idea of long range target shooting. I am very comfy at 400 yards with my 2 main hunting rifles and I am cozy at 300 with all the others, however, I have always simply known my cartridges well enough to make accurate holdover estimates. I enjoy very much popping balloons and punching through paper at those distances. But, reliably, I cannot hold over at distances much past 400 and feel very confident. Is now the time to begin learning how to properly "dial in" a target? I would imagine a 223 would be great for this because its cheap to shoot and you really have to learn correctly because the ballistic coefficients are pretty low. I would not use this set up for hunting except for the occasional pig, squirrel, or rabbit and I doubt I would have an opportunity to shoot any of those past 200 yards or so anyway. It would be a device used for learning and simple fun. I would also imagine that I could go with a relatively inexpensive AR for this purpose. I do like DPMS's 3/4 inch garuntee. Yall heard of anyone that have experience with their Bull 20 model? Of course good glass is necessary- at our place, I will be able to shoot 700 yards or so. Will I need a 30mm tube if this is the route I eventually take? Can a very reliable target scope be had for about $400? Again, all the input is greatly appreciated.

d2wing
February 6, 2011, 06:36 PM
As far as the battle at Wanat, it is hard to blame a weapon fired continuiously until it overheats. Not only the M4's but the M240's overheated as well. That sustained rate of fire is unusual and would be hard on any weapon, even a machine gun unless water cooled. In Nam I experienced a belt delinking on a M60. Portable handheld weapons of any kind have a limited sustained rate of fire. Until someone invents something better, which hasn't happened, it will have to do. From a real combat vet, not an armchair general.

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