whats wrong with 10mm?


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Warp
August 31, 2011, 10:55 PM
The problem with 10mm is it isn't more popular. 10mm is the best semi-auto round period. I don't care what anyone wants to come and argue. 10mm is better than .45ACP, .40 Short and Weak, 9mm, .357Sig, etc. Yeah I understand that to house it you need a .45ACP size gun, but it's called being a man

Being a man? Really? That is what you call being able to conceal a large pistol regardless of work attire, work rules, local climate/weather or local political climate?

:rolleyes:

Mind telling us what your daily carry setup is? Belt, holster, gun, clothing, etc...

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JROC
September 1, 2011, 01:31 AM
^ Go back and read everything I wrote. The last sentence I stated that a G20(or really any other full-size Glock for that matter) doesn't make the best CC weapon. But that it's a great gun if CC isn't your priority with it.

My daily carry setup is my G20SF in my trucks glovebox. I rarely carry on my person, but if I do I carry my Glock in a cheap Glock holster and wear pretty baggy clothing. It conceals well enough, but if I print a little bit then so be it as it's legal in the state of SC. IMO it's easier to conceal than a full-size 1911,(I do have a magwell, and magazines that hang down on my 1911 so that doesn't help) but probably not quite as easy as my CZ75, but is more comfortable to carry than my heavy CZ.

I've been looking for a good price on a Gen3 G19 do CC, but it's just not at the top of the priority list for me right now.

The point I'm making is I feel people way overemphasize making sure a gun feels good in your hand. Every modern pistol I've handled or fired has felt good enough where I could easily adapt to it, be very comfortable operating the gun, and have it feel normal to me after spending a little time with it. Any given LEO agency or the Military isn't going to ask you "which gun/guns do you prefer, and want us to assign to you," they're likely to say here here's your gun, man up to it, learn it, get comfortable with it, etc. Unfortunately there are very few 10mm's out there. I can think of 1911's, EAA Witness, and Glock 20/29 that are currently in production. So being so limited I feel the Glock is the best all around choice when considering things such as cost of the weapon, capability, reliability, aftermarket, and whatever else. Glocks are very good SD weapons and the 10 is an awesome round. Don't let the guns slightly larger size compared to 9's and .40's put you off as it isn't that bad, and I've had no one complain to me about its size or grip angle that I've let hand or fire it even women I've let handle it aren't offended by it's ergonomics in their hands. Actually most everybody think it feels and fires great. The only complaints I every hear about it other than a couple of people I know who hate Glocks just to hate Glocks(and who don't even have experience with a Glock including mine) because they are 1911 fanboys, or their envious of their popularity or whatever are people over the internet.

jeepmor
September 1, 2011, 02:41 AM
Really the bottom line with the 10mm is that it had its chance to be something special, instead it ended up out of favor with LE and with the shooting public at large.


I think this is largely due to the recoil being beyond .gov norms and that fact that the 10mm will blow holes through most assailants in the .gov studies. It's a stout round. I pack it in the woods, not on the street.

jeepmor
September 1, 2011, 02:44 AM
Really the bottom line with the 10mm is that it had its chance to be something special, instead it ended up out of favor with LE and with the shooting public at large.


I think this is largely due to the recoil being beyond .gov norms and that fact that the 10mm will blow holes through most assailants putting those beyond in peril. It's a stout round. I pack it in the woods, not on the street.

10.mm4life
September 1, 2011, 06:07 AM
almost all ammo makers make loads for the 10.mm hornady xtp is only around $16 a box, you do have to order it or get it at gun shows, insted of wally world. I keep glaser silver tips in my glock 20 for home defense with a factory glock light and laser

10.mm4life
September 1, 2011, 06:15 AM
I have shot most modern duty type pistols and i own a 1911, xd,glocks,sigma,ruger p series, cz-52. but my glock 20 sf shoots and points best, with the fastest most natural sight picture, its lined up as soon as it reaches my field of view. i have true glow night sights. the glock 21 sf is the same way. they got those slim frame glocks in .45 acp and .10mm right its for me any way the perfect pointer, the only thing that comes close is the 1911. if your looking to get a glock in 10 or 45 go with the sf verson, you will not be dissapointed unless you have the hands of aundre the giant

10.mm4life
September 1, 2011, 06:29 AM
eaa witness, the glock 20, the colt delta 10.... I wish more companys would add .10 to there platforms. one of the guns on my wish list is the smith and wesson 610, they also made a 3inch nightguard in 10, but they stoped makeing them both. the cool thing about the smith .10mm revolvers is they also fire the 40s@w round. the way a .357 will shoot a .38 special. Hk had a mp5 chambered in .10mm I bet a full auto one of thouse would go for $30k on gunsamerica. i wish some one would make a 5 to 6 pound 30 shot carbine in .10mm for the civilan market I know i would buy one

Warp
September 2, 2011, 12:52 PM
My daily carry setup is my G20SF in my trucks glovebox. I rarely carry on my person,

You really should. It's called being a man

JROC
September 2, 2011, 07:05 PM
You really should. It's called being a man

You sound like a coward. You're saying you need to have a gun on you to feel like a man I guess? So without your gun you'd be too scared to "man up" and take up for yourself? I would suggest growing a pair, and quit depending on your gun to give you some sort of power, and making you feel like a man.

I have no problem with someone CC, and will if I feel the need to, and there's always a gun in my truck, but I would never consider CC a requisite to being a man. In fact I know more women that CC then men.

kozak6
September 2, 2011, 07:28 PM
Best? Best for what? Best semiauto round, or best semiauto pistol round? If I like to do a a lot of shooting, is it cheaper than .22 lr? How much is a box at Walmart? How well does it suppress? What's a good subcompact carry pistol in 10mm?

10mm is an interesting cartridge, but it's not for me. It's a specialty magnum niche cartridge for reloaders. I don't reload.

There's not much of a range of pistols in the caliber. There's the Glock (also not for me), the EAA, and everything else is an expensive niche pistol.

For nearly identical ballistics, the .357 mag is a better choice for me and probably most other shooters.

The_Armed_Therapist
September 2, 2011, 07:58 PM
In addition to it not being as readily available or affordable, it never will be. I mean, I guess I can't say "never," but it is highly unlikely. The 10mm was developed for a specific purpose (law enforcement) and it only lasted a few years. Too many couldn't handle it and the .40 was created (shorter and weaker). It has already run its course and it wasn't even a very long course.

The truth is that it is a great round and I have a hard time understanding why so many law enforcement officers struggled to shoot it... it's not that bad. :rolleyes:... But because it never caught on, no one (besides Glock, really) is making 10mm in the competitive markets. I've never seen a 10mm for less money than the brand new Glock 10mm. Add the expensive ammo and it puts it into niche category.

Loosedhorse
September 2, 2011, 08:09 PM
What's wrong with 10mm?

Why it's folks like Double Tap loading a ridiculous variety of ammo for it, from 125 gr Barnes all-copper HPs at 1600 fps to 230gr hardcast loads at 1120. It's like Mike McNett is trying to rub the caliber's versatility right in our faces!

And you've got your choice of currently produced Glock or 1911 platforms; only two of the most popular pistol platforms ever.

That's what's wrong!

;):D

(I wish to make clear I have only high appreciation and regard for both Mr. McNett and his products.)

Warp
September 2, 2011, 09:30 PM
You sound like a coward. You're saying you need to have a gun on you to feel like a man I guess?

Context. Please read the thread. You will see that another poster said using a lesser caliber in a smaller gun than his almighty 10mm was unsatsifactory, that choosing a big pistol in a caliber like 10mm was called "being a man". Upon further discussion it turns out that that big ol 10mm is too big and he does not ever even carry it. My statement is a way of responding to his asinine statement that selecting 10mm is "called being a man".

My point was that, as we all should know, a smaller gun you actually carry is better than the larger/larger caliber gun you leave at home or in your glovebox due to size

You suggest I 'grow a pair', I suggest you use your brain.

DammitBoy
September 2, 2011, 10:28 PM
In addition to it not being as readily available or affordable, it never will be... it never caught on, no one (besides Glock, really) is making 10mm.

Nonsense. The ammo is readily available and affordable.

Besides Glock, I count 7 other manufacturers making very nice 10mm's to shoot. :rolleyes:

Warp
September 2, 2011, 10:32 PM
If the ammo was readily available it would pass the Walmart test.

DammitBoy
September 2, 2011, 10:34 PM
It passes the 'mouse click away' test - which means it's readily available.

Warp
September 2, 2011, 10:36 PM
So what do you call ammo that passes the Walmart test?

dcarch
September 2, 2011, 10:41 PM
Lootable. :D :D :D

Warp
September 2, 2011, 11:11 PM
touche

legion3
September 3, 2011, 08:00 AM
Nonsense. The ammo is readily available and affordable.

Besides Glock, I count 7 other manufacturers making very nice 10mm's to shoot

I guess readily availble and affordable is subjective.

Very nice 10mm's to shoot, other than Glock and Witness, = expensive 1911's!

And you've got your choice of currently produced Glock or 1911 platforms; only two of the most popular pistol platforms ever.

That's what's wrong!

I agree with you that is what's wrong! Not everyone wants a 10mm 1911 for 1K and up - LEO's don't use single action guns hardly at all anymore and I know lots of 1911 fanboys who wouldn't take a 10mm 1911 if it were given to them.

And not everyone likes Glock and do not like the big fat Glocks like the 20.

Any new modern polymer service pistols coming out?
Any modern top of the line police ammo coming out in 10mm?
How did the Vltor new Bren ten work out?

Other than very expensive DT (with questionable numbers) and Swamp Fox is there any non watered down factory ammo for SD? Hornady? Silvertips (which are dated and not full power)? Is Corbon DPX hot? I know its expensive per box.

Heck even 45GAP comes in HST, Ranger, and Speer GD.

Seems like there is a fairly limited choice of ammo too. Looks to me like reloading is the way to go with the 10mm.

All in all it seems like the 10mm has a limited appeal for many reasons.

Warp
September 3, 2011, 12:32 PM
All in all it seems like the 10mm has a limited appeal for many reasons.

Completely agree.

I had one (G20). Sold it. And now I have a G21SF

Fiv3r
September 3, 2011, 01:54 PM
I'd only own a G20 if were to go down the 10mm path. Not because the Glock is the be all end all, it's just one of the most affordable guns in that caliber to buy. On top of that, it would be a multiple caliber tinkering gun. I like that with barrel swaps, it can shoot different calibers.

I do find it a niche caliber in and of itself. For carry, over penetration (to me, anyway) is a drawback. I certainly don't want to be responsible for ending the life of another person because I was trying to save my own skin.

I can see it as a viable woods side arm. However, critters are thinner skinned in my neck of the woods. I feel pretty good with just a 30-30 rifle. If I carry a side arm, a .357 is more than enough.

I don't reload. If I did reload it would be for common calibers. The only time I would take the time to do any reloading would be if there is another ammo drought and I can't pick up a box or two of ammo at my leisure.

Neat caliber. Proven performance. However, I've got no use for it.

JoelSteinbach
September 3, 2011, 02:00 PM
Nothing is wrong with10mm, there are a variety of guns available, Glock, Kimber Wittness as examplesa, ammo is available maybe not plentiful, reloading is an option that kees my 100's fed and allows me to customize my rounds to my applications.

Oceanbob
September 3, 2011, 02:19 PM
There is nothing wrong with 10MM..!!


I own and shoot all calibers. I also have been reloading for 25 + years.

The 10MM is my favorite cartridge. :D My favorite handgun is the GLOCK 29.

Second, the GLOCK 20. I also run a Glock 20 with a 9X25 conversion barrel, 20 round mag and a red dot zeroed at 150 yards. Makes a good little carbine-like package that fits into my Rucksack.

http://i51.tinypic.com/14dlvsk.jpg

Glock 20 OD
http://i55.tinypic.com/j6r869.jpg

9X25 Glock 20 with red dot and 20 round mag. A real HOOT to shoot.
Extremely accurate.

http://i55.tinypic.com/1z37xo6.jpg

JROC
September 3, 2011, 02:36 PM
Context. Please read the thread. You will see that another poster said using a lesser caliber in a smaller gun than his almighty 10mm was unsatsifactory, that choosing a big pistol in a caliber like 10mm was called "being a man". Upon further discussion it turns out that that big ol 10mm is too big and he does not ever even carry it. My statement is a way of responding to his asinine statement that selecting 10mm is "called being a man".

My point was that, as we all should know, a smaller gun you actually carry is better than the larger/larger caliber gun you leave at home or in your glovebox due to size

You suggest I 'grow a pair', I suggest you use your brain.

You really look like an idiot. You need to quit acting like a know-it-all, and stop quoting everyone in this thread.

Read exactly what I wrote in my first post below:

I understand that it can be a little bigger than what most want for CC, but if you just want to have a big, powerful, manageable gun that does everything well/right a 10mm, and a G20SF is hard to beat.

Can you not comprehend that people don't always buy pistols for CC purposes? Do you feel that all full-size pistols are poor guns? You must not like Government size 1911's or full-size Glocks/Sig's/M&P's/XD's, etc because they don't make the best CC weapons? Again I can CC my Glock easier than I can my Colt Combat Elite, or CZ 75. A 10mm is a .45ACP sized gun. If you can CC a .45ACP gun you can CC a 10mm.

You seem to believe that the reason I don't CC is solely do to I have a gun that's too big and I don't want to aggravate with it. Am I correct in this? Well it goes beyond that, and what you need to understand is that if CC was overly important to me then I would do it, and if I felt I needed another gun for it then I would get one. Again I wouldn't mind a G19 for easier CC, but again it's not a huge priority for me. I fully support CC but you sound like a fanatically. All you see is CC. Get over that. If you want to CC with a small gun and have it be a 10mm then get a G29SF. My Glock rides everywhere with me, and I carry it on the lake, or in the woods, etc. I don't carry it into work with me as I'm not allowed to.

BTW you must be pretty dumb for buying a G21SF as it's pretty much the exact same size as a G20SF. Why would you buy a gun that's not as good as a compact gun for CC? With your mentality it's a pretty useless gun right?

10mm is a much better round than .45ACP, and that was kind of the intent when it was designed. 10mm is a great round. It has accuracy, range, and power. What it doesn't have is huge support from the gun, and ammo companies which I find unfortunate.

I feel people must just be wrongly intimidated by it as I find it to be a very manageable round even with full power loads. That's where "being a man" comes into play. Yeah it's got a little recoil to it, but it's not that bad. If you can handle the recoil of a .40S&W or .45ACP you should be able to handle 10mm. Actually my Glock produces a very desirable type of recoil, and is more comfortable to shoot than my 1911 even though you can feel that it fires a more power round. Also if you have or can handle a .45ACP gun with a double stack magazine then a G20/G20SF is not too big for you as they are the same size.(in general. Glocks aren't going to have the exact same dimensions as a XD or HK for example)

Justin Holder
September 3, 2011, 04:36 PM
"The 10mm is a niche cartridge"

If the 10mm is a niche cartridge then so is the .357 magnum. If you compared the two without any preconceived biased opinions you would see that they are more alike than not. They do exactly the same things, just from different platforms.

The only problem with the 10mm is that the major manufacturers and the shooting public at large refuse to give it the same attention as the big 5. (9mm, 40S&W, 45acp, 38 special, .357 mag.)

"The 10mm is a niche cartridge" BS!!!

There is no other mainstream semi auto handgun cartridge with anywhere near the same level of versatility that the 10mm has.

Just because the bean counters at wally world decide not to carry it in their stores, says nothing about the cartridge itself.

Warp
September 3, 2011, 04:55 PM
Yeah I understand that to house it you need a .45ACP size gun, but it's called being a man.

uh-huh


BTW you must be pretty dumb for buying a G21SF as it's pretty much the exact same size as a G20SF. Why would you buy a gun that's not as good as a compact gun for CC? With your mentality it's a pretty useless gun right?



1. There is this thing called open carry. Big pistols are not a problem

2. My S&W 642 and Glock 26 and Glock 19 already cover my concealed carry requirements quite well.

3. There are advantages to a pistol for home defense. Big pistols are not a problem.

Unlike you I do carry so that I am likely to actually have it if I should need it. ;)




If the 10mm is a niche cartridge then so is the .357 magnum.

...if you could buy 10mm pretty much anywhere ammo is sold, even Walmart...if you could fire less expensive .40 in your 10mm (straight up, no changes to the gun at all)...if virtually every handgun manufacturer produced ammo for 10mm...if there were more guns than you can count chambered in 10mm in all sizes from tiny airlites that disappear in a pant pocket to full size behemouths....then you might have a point. But since all of those things apply to .357 and NOT 10mm...

legion3
September 3, 2011, 05:17 PM
Just because the bean counters at wally world decide not to carry it in their stores, says nothing about the cartridge itself.

No but this

The only problem with the 10mm is that the major manufacturers and the shooting public at large refuse to give it the same attention as the big 5.

says a whole lot about the cartridge.

I am not sure refuse is the proper word, more like reject. And there must be more than "the only problem" because if it were profitable it would be given attention, and its not.

The 10mm had its chance and it did not get the traction so many of us hoped for back when it was introduced. No amount of hope from its supporters can make the 10mm acceptable to the shooting world at large.

Warp
September 3, 2011, 05:20 PM
If law enforcement agencies or the military used it production would increase, people would take notice and the major ammo manufacturers would give more/better options. Price might come down as well. This will probably never happen, though, and it will continue to be a niche cartridge

Oceanbob
September 3, 2011, 05:49 PM
quote: If law enforcement agencies or the military used it production would increase, people would take notice and the major ammo manufacturers would give more/better options. Price might come down as well. This will probably never happen, though, and it will continue to be a niche cartridge


True..the 10 was only mainstream for a short time back in the early 90s.

But I have noticed that more and more people are shooting 10MM these days.

The good thing about the Glock platform is I can run .40/.357SIG or 9X25 out of any Glock 20 or 29. So I will always be able to feed my Glocks. :D

Be well, Bob

Casefull
September 3, 2011, 07:47 PM
I shoot various 10mm but have found that reloading 40sw gives me very close to 10mm performance with plentiful brass. Of course if I want 1500fps I use the 10mm. Some call the 40sw a weak round but definitely not so if you handload. I shoot 40sw in my sig at 1200fps with 180g hp. I am a 45 guy at heart but like the 40 the more I shoot it.

JROC
September 3, 2011, 09:00 PM
uh-huh

Whats your point? If you are looking for a full-size gun you are likely not looking to make it your primary CC weapon, and if a double stack .45ACP gun isn't too big for you to handle then neither is a G20SF and people who fit that criteria shouldn't be offended by the size of the gun. I have a co-worker who has a regular G20, and the G20SF has a better feel to it. You brought the CC thing into the discussion after I'd already said that a G20 isn't the best gun to consider for CC purposes so why did you want to turn this into an argument? If someone asked me what are some good CC weapons for them to consider I wouldn't tell them to look at G17's, full-size 1911's, XD's, M&P, SIG P226's, or CZ 75's either. In all my purchases I've never prioritized CC because I like bigger guns. Again I would like a G19 as it's an easier weapon to CC.


1. There is this thing called open carry. Big pistols are not a problem

2. My S&W 642 and Glock 26 and Glock 19 already cover my concealed carry requirements quite well.

3. There are advantages to a pistol for home defense. Big pistols are not a problem.

Unlike you I do carry so that I am likely to actually have it if I should need it.

Are you a LEO carrying on duty? I don't remember open carry being legal in the state of GA, and I lived and grew up there for a long time. Has this changed since 2003?

Your 3rd option pretty much covers one of the main reasons I purchase firearms. That and it's legal in SC to carry a gun with you in your vehicle. I'm glad you are starting to understand. Another good reason is while you could get thrown in a situation where you need to use your firearm it's likely not to happen, and so I like to shoot my guns, and I would rather have a full-size handgun to shoot than a compact handgun.

I agree with others for the 10mm to become a mainstream round it need to get some LE/Military support which seems unlikely in this day and age as it is perceived that women and smaller guys can't handle it. IMO 10mm is easily more manageable than .357 Mag and I feel that if 10mm had been invented 20/30 years before it was that it would have become a popular round.

10mm reminds me of .280 Rem for a handgun. It's a great round that just hasn't hit it off in the mainstream, but it's so good, and enough people support/use/appreciate it that it keeps it around and popular enough where buying a gun to fire it isn't really a bad idea as you can get ammo for it. Both are also popular rounds for people who load their own.

Warp
September 3, 2011, 09:01 PM
Are you a LEO carrying on duty? I don't remember open carry being legal in the state of GA

I've been here since 2007 and I've been paying attention to nationwide carry laws since 2005. Open carry, in my memory, has always been legal in GA.

psyshack
September 4, 2011, 04:44 AM
I'm getting my G20 this month. :)

And if I was so inclined to purchase retail ammo it can be bought at several LGS in my area. Wal-Mart need not apply. Last time I was in a China-Mart was to purchase my hunting Lic. Will do it online next time. Thus I look forward to reloading for the 10mm and shooting it a lot.

The 10mm is getting a better following as time goes by. Two of my LGS are now keeping them in stock. And they never stay on the shelf long at all. Two years ago 10mm anything was a special order.

I can't think of one bad thing concerning the 10mm.

DammitBoy
September 4, 2011, 12:26 PM
So what do you call ammo that passes the Walmart test?

Mostly ammo that I don't buy, I prefer the good stuff.

---

ps - all the good stuff is just a mouse click away...

Warp
September 4, 2011, 12:32 PM
Mostly ammo that I don't buy, I prefer the good stuff.

---

ps - all the good stuff is just a mouse click away...


I would like to buy practice/range ammo for my 9x19 handguns. What is the good stuff and where do I get it?

intercooler
September 4, 2011, 02:04 PM
Shot two more 10mm offerings today:

- Underwood 165gr HP 1431.7 FPS/ 751.2 LBS
- Buffalo Bore 200gr FMJ 1179.6 FPS/ 618.1 LBS


Loving the Underwood and almost have enough brass to send in for .36 a shot reload. Love shooting the 10!

Sheet is updated:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ak5OC6bPsjO8dEh6eGZ3N3hpUU13SXM5cm9pZy16T0E&hl=en_US#gid=0

DammitBoy
September 5, 2011, 09:11 PM
I would like to buy practice/range ammo for my 9x19 handguns. What is the good stuff and where do I get it?

Midway USA baby. Click here (once) (http://www.midwayusa.com/)

I was on gunbroker today and did a search for 10mm pistols/revolvers. There were eight different brands for sale out of something like 45 offerings.

Warp
September 5, 2011, 09:12 PM
I see nothing good. Try again.

atblis
September 5, 2011, 09:33 PM
Do they have Wal-mart in Georgia?

Old krow
September 6, 2011, 12:10 AM
I don't reload. If I did reload it would be for common calibers

It is a common caliber in terms of reloading. The dies are .40SW, the bullets are the same, the powder probably is too if you're loading for multiple calibers, the primers are the same as a .45 ACP. The only thing that is unique to the 10mm that makes it less common is the brass.

I'm getting my G20 this month.

Congrats!

10mm in all sizes from tiny airlites that disappear in a pant pocket

Okay fine! You win! The 10mm is a niche cartridge... just dont make me shoot a 10mm from a airweight :what:

Warp
September 6, 2011, 12:25 AM
I wouldn't want to shoot it from an airweight either. Nor .357 mag for that matter

psyshack
September 7, 2011, 06:53 PM
I ordered my G20 today from Sooner State Pawn in OKC. They beat Bud's, Davidson, my local FFL, a out of state FFL buddy and the Tulsa market hands down.

I look forward to picking up my 10mm next Sat. And combing the OKC market for reloading supply's. :)

DammitBoy
September 8, 2011, 11:06 PM
I see nothing good. Try again.

You'll have to try with your eyes open...

http://www.midwayusa.com/browse/BrowseProducts.aspx?pageNum=1&tabId=3&categoryId=7550&categoryString=653***691***

:rolleyes:

I myself prefer the 20 rounds Hornady 180 grain xtp jacketed hollowpoint for $16.99

---

Surely you can find something of interest in their 12 pages of 9x19 ammo?

http://www.midwayusa.com/browse/BrowseProducts.aspx?pageNum=1&tabId=3&categoryId=7508&categoryString=653***691***

:rolleyes:

Warp
September 8, 2011, 11:58 PM
Surely you can find something of interest in their 12 pages of 9x19 ammo?





Nope. It is all over priced and/or unwanted.

If you have a specific example please give it.

Or do you like paying $16.29/50 of WWB 9mm? Gimme a break. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Robert101
September 9, 2011, 11:51 AM
I consider the 10MM to be the ultimate combat handgun. My reasons are as follows:
1. True handgun magnum ballistics.
2. Larger diameter of bullet.
3. Relatively flat shooting (for a handgun).
4. Able to penetrate reasonable barriers.
5. Heavier bullet weight (above 150 grains).

Now I'm not concerned about over-penetration, slightly higher recoil, reduced magazine count, heavier pistol, or larger pistol size. I do not CCW my 10MM. I do consider it the better combat round and prefer the 1911 base.

Is my post subjective? You bet it is, and I know it. It is soley my opinion based on my interpretation and experience relative to ballistic charts, shooting recoil, wound data, follow up shots, etc. It is simply my personal choice and free opinion. Have a good one guys.

legion3
September 9, 2011, 01:17 PM
I consider the 10MM to be the ultimate combat handgun.

Well at least one military unit agrees with you

The Danish troops that patrol Greenland carry the Glock 20 for polar bear protection. Although the combat with the polar bears is limited ;)

But alas they do go back to the Sig p210 9mm when "back in the world"

dcarch
September 9, 2011, 02:27 PM
I don't know. I done heard somethin' about a right ta keep an' arm bears, or somethin' like that.

Robert101
September 9, 2011, 04:08 PM
that's funny.....

Hunt480
September 9, 2011, 04:46 PM
I don't know about the ultimate combat thing but the G20SF I have is a fine woods gun. I tricked the gun out ith some after market springs and barrell and taylored some good loads for it. I plan on doing some huntin with the gun. I am a revolver man at heart and load for just about all magnum handguns. The 10 MM is powerful and accurate in a nice size carrying package. This G20 in particular is my favorite auto and will be my bow hunting companion in the morning. There is nothing wrong with the 10 MM IMO.

Skribs
September 9, 2011, 08:20 PM
I'm one of those that has just read and hasn't shot a 10mm, but my philosophy with pistols is that unless you need the extra penetration that greater power gives you, you should only accept an increase in recoil if it comes with an increase in caliber. Thus, I will take a .40 S&W over a 10mm any day, as my intended platform is an HD round, which will not involve shooting armored targets, bears, or people behind brick walls. So for me, the 10mm is a useless cartridge. For someone who has an application for the extra power and accuracy, I could see it being useful.

Jitterbug
September 9, 2011, 08:50 PM
What's wrong with the 10mm?

Nothing, it's the most versatile semi-auto pistol cartridge to come down the pike in many years, 125-230 grains at 800-1800 fps.

JROC
September 9, 2011, 10:44 PM
I'm one of those that has just read and hasn't shot a 10mm, but my philosophy with pistols is that unless you need the extra penetration that greater power gives you, you should only accept an increase in recoil if it comes with an increase in caliber. Thus, I will take a .40 S&W over a 10mm any day, as my intended platform is an HD round, which will not involve shooting armored targets, bears, or people behind brick walls. So for me, the 10mm is a useless cartridge. For someone who has an application for the extra power and accuracy, I could see it being useful.

Oddly enough most people seem to prefer the recoil the 10mm produces to the recoil a .40S&W produces. Especially Glockers, and especially when firing a round with .40S&W ballistics.(it's like firing a Cadillac with FBI type loads) Even with some very hot Swampfox ammo my G20SF is as easy to shoot as my 1911 with plan old 230 FMJ rounds. Maybe slightly more recoil, but it produces a very desirable/manageable type of recoil. More of a firm push that uses more of your elbows instead of a snappy jerk that likes to flip your wrists around.

montgomery381
September 9, 2011, 11:22 PM
Only a couple of companies make a gun chambered in 10mm. Glock, for sure, makes two models and Colt did, not sure if they still do. That said 10mm is an excellent round, plenty of stopping power.

csa77
September 9, 2011, 11:24 PM
whats wrong with 10mm?
nothing I guess.
whats wrong with 45 super?

But since this is really an argument about power and ballistics....what wrong with 460 Rowland?

303tom
September 9, 2011, 11:31 PM
ive been lookin around and it just seems to me more people would rather have 9mm, 40s&w, 45 acp and .45gap whats the deal?
They can`t handle the 10mm !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

kozak6
September 10, 2011, 02:58 AM
Or they don't reload. Or they like cheap ammo. Or they like cheap ammo they can buy at Walmart. Or they want a concealable carry pistol. Or the .357 mag is more convenient.

intercooler
September 10, 2011, 08:55 AM
These are all pretty valid points. As for the firearm size a G29 is about as small a 10mm package as you can get if you want to CCW with it. I see no problems at all with using as such if you don't shoot 10mm in the upper end of loadings. I do, so I have a fairly hefty Witness that couldn't be a carry piece. In owning about all the calibers out there in the Semi World (as well as a .357) it is at the top of the food chain in the useable Semi World. Like stated up there you can go from 125gr to 230gr and from 850 FPS up to 1700FPS easily. I like the cartridge so much I'm looking for a 610 to sell my .357 for. Reason? Actually I can get cheaper 10mm ammo than the .357, more power and more bullet choices. Most of what I found only the 125gr moves out good in .357 but it is tough on the revolver and that is why most prefer the 158gr loads. In 10mm you can get 1500 FPS out of 150 + gr out of a revolver. Versatile!

DammitBoy
September 10, 2011, 11:00 AM
do you like paying $16.29/50 of WWB 9mm? Gimme a break. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

9mm? Why would I be buying that sissy round? :neener:

Warp
September 10, 2011, 11:12 AM
9mm? Why would I be buying that sissy round?

So you concede the point, then. Good. I like being right. :)

Jitterbug
September 10, 2011, 11:23 AM
I don't think it's a matter of being able to handle 10mm, because due to it's versatility it's still very capable and sometimes even preferable when downloaded...as in .40 S&W.

And has been pointed out above the recoil impulse is more unpleasant in the 40 with the 40 being a sharp snap in many pistols and loads, that's been my experience with the .40 and is probably due to the pressure curve of the high intensity .40. Most .40's are loaded hot, already on the edge of it's performance curve, while at .40 velocity's the 10mm is just beginning to purr.

In my opinion the main advantage the .40 has is the ability to be stuffed into a 9mm frame and offer double stack capacity...more bullets, better for the average Joe who can't hit a target and prays and sprays. Or for LE which has a valid reason for more capacity, I'm not nagging on capacity, it's just highly unlikely that as a civilian CCW holder or sporting enthusiast I'd ever need more then the 9 + 1 rounds my 1911 Dan Wesson CBOB holds.

And for obvious reasons the .40 is available in a wider variety of platforms as well as offering cheap low quality ammo being available at Wally World.

The 1911 CBOB carries very nicely by the way, both IWB or OWB.

I use very mild loads a 180 FMJ/Cast bullet doing 850-1000 for practice and general plinking, a 125-180 H.P. going from 1100-1600 fps for CCW and a 200 grain XTP/Hard Cast bullet doing 1150 fps for woods protection and I can do all this with a magazine change.

It will go faster/slower if I wanted to develop the loads for it which is pretty simple to do, loading data abounds for the 10mm, if I were to go to a 5" or 6" barrel the velocity increase is substantial as is the handling characteristics of the pistol during the recoil cycle, my next 10mm will probably be a 1911 with a 5" barrel. I've owned Glock's before and now with the slim frame the newer G20's are very attractive, as is the G29SF, they're nice pistols to.

One of my next project's is a 125/135 grain bullet going around 1000 fps, like in a 9mm plinker round to train my wife in the use of the 1911. And I may go down in weight with my plinker load to say a 150-170 range bullet...just because I can.

I think of the 10mm as basically the ballistic twin of the .357 Magnum in a semi-auto offering the same if not more versatility.

It's not for everybody, but, it's a wonderful round and reloader's dream cartridge.

JoelSteinbach
September 10, 2011, 11:26 AM
It's not for everybody, but, it's a wonderful round and reloader's dream cartridge.

Jitterbug, yes it is a reloaders dream.

Bobson
September 10, 2011, 02:38 PM
I own a Glock37 (45GAP) and really love the round, recoils like a 40 and hits like a 45. (before someone jumps down my throat, thats the company line).
Every .40 I've shot had more recoil than a .45. That's why I sold my XD 40 (and why I'm buying an XDm 45). Not jumping down your throat, just saying. I thought the general consensus is that .40 S&W has more recoil than the .45ACP. I've had numerous people agree.

Jitterbug
September 10, 2011, 03:36 PM
Bobson

.45acp is another favorite of mine, and I'd agree, more or at least different recoil then .40. But for me I'd go .45acp over .40 S&W any day of the week.

More snap in the .40 whereas I find the .45acp more of a push.

With all due respect do those who do, personally, after owning a few, I have no use for a .40 S&W, but I understand the market that does, usually not for shooter types or reloaders, I suppose it's appeal is more for the masses.

.22, .38 Special, 9mm, 45ACP, 10mm and .44 Mag., cover all my handgun bases. I would like a nice .357 Mag. and a 45 Colt, both revolvers obviously, then I'll be more or less complete in the handgun department.

agtman
October 20, 2011, 08:13 PM
"What's wrong with the 10mm?" is the wrong question.

There's nothing wrong with the 10mm cartridge. It's always had "user issues." :rolleyes: The cartridge chooses you, not the other way around.

The question is, what's wrong with some of the 10mm's (prospective) users?

If you're recoil sensitive or have acutely soft and supple hands like, say, little Jimmy Schwartz :eek: , then shooting a 10mm pistol is like being on the receiving end of a Jim Harbaugh handshake - which is to say, you won't be happy. :evil:

http://i372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/agtman/motivatorb1e9472e259df71cdf008b9e32.jpg

:cool:

MCgunner
October 20, 2011, 08:16 PM
If i bought a 10, it'd probably be a Smith and Wesson revolver. That way I wouldn't have to worry about losing expensive brass. Auto pistols are really wasteful of brass, or can be. Some seem to launch the brass into orbit no matter what recoil spring you have in it. A friend had an IAI Javelina that was like that....when it wasn't jamming. That thing was a POS.

Anyway, for revolvers, there's plenty of more powerful magnum calibers to choose from if you're needing power. I still want a Freedom Arms in .454 Casull. :D I don't need no WUSSY 10. I already have a .45 Colt Blackhawk. :D

Warp
October 20, 2011, 11:20 PM
Too many of the 10mm guys are super macho personas who act as though they are god's gift to MEN because they chose a different caliber than most other people. Few want to be associated with those guys

legion3
October 21, 2011, 07:05 AM
Oh did this thread get resurrected?

Nothing has changed with what's wrong with the 10mm since September.

It still out of favor with LE and with the shooting public at large.

And the vast majority of the shooting world has rejected the 10mm.

There are no new affordable or compact 10mm platforms on the horizon.

Ammo is still an issue.

intercooler
October 21, 2011, 12:15 PM
All false statements

TexasRifleman
October 21, 2011, 12:34 PM
Nothing has changed with what's wrong with the 10mm since September.

LOL very true, and not likely to change. So, done.

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