for all the HK haters


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Precision
February 4, 2011, 12:50 PM
a friend wrote this up for on facebook when i showed him this link:

http://larrycorreia.wordpress.com/2007/10/09/hk-because-you-suck-and-we-hate-you/

That was originally posted by a member on AR15.com. Basically all these HK haters are pissed off because their guns are in fact more expensive than other companies out there.

It really started to get bad when HK released the SL8 and USC with those fugly stocks. Of course there was nothing HK could do as they're hands were tied with export/import laws. This made people not really want them...except those that loved HK. I searched for a reasonably priced USC for quite awhile in fact, haha. Because sales were not huge they started importing them less and less. Basic economics tells us that when there are short supplies, demand and prices go up. This <deleted> a lot of people off because they were seeing a whole new era of companies making the AR15, thus a lower price tag. Compound that with traditionalist Americans who believe that we make the best stuff and whatever our military uses MUST be the best. So most of them felt threatened by these new imports. Those that liked the rifles...wanted the real semi auto rifle...not what HK was, in their eyes WILLING, in actuality ABLE, to give them. So that turned people off because they ignored the logic of the export laws.

Then you have the Mark 23...$2,000. Hefty price tag but again, low supply (due to military contracts) brings about higher prices. Then the USP comes out, along with the P2000 later. Higher price tags which pissed off gun owners that weren't able to afford it. They look at a Glock and say...hmmm plastic and cheap. HK...hmmm...plastic and...OH MY!! NOT CHEAP! *** *** GRRRR OMG OMG OMG!!! I HATE THEM. So then you got people saying "I don't know why you would buy an HK...my 1911, Glock, etc works great and its cheaper!" Well okay <deleted>...then don't buy the freaking thing! Someone else will. But, as you'll learn, that's not good enough for the HK haters.

Move on to the XM8...the rifle that was suppose to replace the M4...and damn near did. This REALLY <deleted> people off because the their precious AR15 (M16) was about to go bye bye in the eyes of the military. That guy has a lot of lies in his little rant...the XM8 was well received by the army...the only thing that really went wrong was the weight requirement. When asked about potential modification, the army requested so much <deleted> that the weight kept going up thus making it damn near impossible for HK to meet the requirements. I think a normal M4 weighs about 8-9lbs...more with accs...the original xm8 weight reqs was 5-6lbs! Completely unrealistic! Then the famous melting myth comes out. In a test, yes an XM8 melted. Course that's what everyone tells you and thats what you'll read in 99.99% of situations...what they fail to mention is that this test was a TORTURE test and the handguard slightly warped. The entire gun was still functional! The handgaurd even came off and on! it was just slightly mis shapen (due to the absence of a heat guard) Not to mention this happened after it fired more rounds than the service life of a std m16 barrel! That story is downright slander when it comes to the real performance of the XM8. The thing doesn't melt. End of story. But that's not what they want to cry about...they use it as exaggerated ammo to put down the XM8 because they don't want to see a German gun replace the famous American M16. I can understand that I guess.

Now...you come to the HK416 debacle. Larry Vickers worked with HK to fix the problems with the M4. Yes...there were significant problems with the M4, despite what everyone might try to tell you. The actual list of things wrong with it is another story for another time. HK had great success in revamping the L85/SA80 (Britin's assault rifle) so the mil asked them to do the same thing to the M4...the result...the HK416. Now the first thing added was of course the piston...and the M16 has of course, the DI. Well...again...the God Eugene Stoner designed it with a DI...so that is the only system that MUST be used...to hell with the gas piston! Then people blatantly ignore the benefits and make up <deleted> to complain about. My favorite was the dude who claimed it turned the .5moa M16 into a 4moa rifle. That one made me chuckle.

Special forces LOVED the <deleted> thing...Delta, GB's, and to a lesser extent Rangers and SEALs all order them and started using them. All of the resources HK had available went to filling military contracts...and guess what that left little room for...thats right...the civilian market. HK didn't have the time or resources to produce a semi auto export compliant HK416...nor did it make sense for them to do it as the .mil contracts were 50fold that of potential civilian sales. Guess what that did...yup, it <deleted> people off because they couldn't have it and HK wasn't willing to give it to them. Ever wonder why FN and other released their assualt rifles to the civilian market? Because they needed sales SOMEWHERE...and they weren't getting it from military sales...at least not to the extent HK had.

So that <deleted> people off and the meme "HK because you suck and we hate you" started. When they first started coming out I think 7-8 hk416 uppers hit the market. What did I say about economics? VERY low supply = skyrocketed prices. As much as $5000 for just the upper! Insane...but it was the only way at the time that you were getting your hands on the HK416...rifle of choice for Delta and other SF's out there. What do you think that did to all the wannabe's that couldn't afford it? You guess right, it <deleted> them off, especially since HK was no where near capable of producing a civilian version on any scale. So haters decided to hate...<deleted> was made up...rants like that come to life trying to cut down one of, if not thee, finest weapons manufacturers out there...and why? Because they can't have all the goodies HL makes for the SF boys...and when they do...they can't afford them.

FWIW, there were a lot of lies in that rant. I wouldn't take anything in there as truth even if offered a million bucks.

Bottom line...HK is an amazing gun maker and their prices ARE high...but realistic and quite decent when you look at the quality you are getting. That makes some people mad. Its gonna happen. I've accepted it and those people are simply brushed aside. Hell, a whole new wave it about to come about with the minimal release of the MR556A1 at like $3k...but then again that will come WAY down once all orders are met and the market saturates.

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Z-Michigan
February 4, 2011, 12:56 PM
I think Correia's rant is still pretty well on, and worth reading for anyone who hasn't read it before.

The defense above is weak and doesn't match what I've read elsewhere. Basically, HK did do a pretty good job upgrading the UK's L85, it seems, and their submission to the USMC as the IAR seems to be a very good rifle, or else the USMC wouldn't have bought it. So, they managed to improve one platform that started out mediocre, and re-engineer a different platform to make it somewhat better, for a different role than it was originally intended.

Realistically, value is a part of the equation whether you're an individual, police department or large military. It seems that HK has always been, and remains, poor at delivering value. They can deliver fairly good guns, but do so at approximately two times the cost of various other companies that deliver equal or better quality guns. Put another way, FNH has nothing to worry about.

TexasRifleman
February 4, 2011, 12:56 PM
That was originally posted by a member on AR15.com.

Well your friends credibility is suffering in his first sentence. It was originally posted here on THR, not the other site.

In fact the article even says that so, I have to ask... did your friend actually read Larry's article?

Did he notice that in the article Larry said:

as a joke

You know. Joke. Humor. Funny. To be honest your friend sounds like what Larry was poking fun at since he wasn't able to take the joke and decided to respond to a joke with such a serious writeup.

Matt-J2
February 4, 2011, 01:08 PM
The best part about reading the article linked to was the reference to Bloaty the Pizza Hog. Invader Zim FTW!

Bartholomew Roberts
February 4, 2011, 01:16 PM
Yeah, that's about the response I'd expect from a 16yr old veteran of Call of Duty. Personally, I think Correia's joke was funny precisely because there is a lot of truth to it; but then I've actually dealt with HK and used a number of their NFA products somewhere outside of a video game, so I may be biased.

earlthegoat2
February 4, 2011, 01:20 PM
Bloaty the Pizza Hog. Invader Zim FTW!

Yes, by far the best reference in the whole thing.

It is nice to see someone else has heard of that show.

Stinking Humans!!

Gelgoog
February 4, 2011, 04:54 PM
I like HK products quite a bit, having owned a HK VP70, P9s, HK91, V53, MKE 94k, USP.

They may not be the best, but they are very reliable and have excellent craftsmenship, and are ever so purrrdy. You rarely hear about an HK product being released that has to be recalled ( I can't even think of one at all). I just wish the company was more friendly to the US market.

If they would just release some of those nice weapons here...I mean come on, give me a semi-auto G36 already.

Correia
February 4, 2011, 05:49 PM
You know, I wrote that original article in 2007, which is like a billion years in internet time, and it still generates buckets of hate mail, usually about how I'm too poor to own HK (hey, did you guys see my new custom hand built 10mm longslide STI?), or technical specs of items that didn't exist in 2007, or how good the customer service is now... 4 years later. Uhm... Okay. :uhoh:

That one up there is just another rehash, including accusing me of "lies" about things that aren't even in the post. Whatever. All I know is that blog post has gotten a ton of hits, I started a meme, and from what I understand HK customer service has been trying to get better. Good for them.

TechBrute
February 4, 2011, 06:14 PM
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=3134561#post3134561

It's funny because it's true...

The stuff HK will let me have, I don't want. I don't want to pay that much for something that large, complicated, and not suited for my needs. The stuff I might otherwise want is mostly just because I can't have it, once I could, I don't think I'd get all hot for another piston AR that doesn't even fit standard AR spec parts. I might want one after I've already bought one of everything else out there.

They aren't the only player out there, and I won't support their politics by giving them my money.

TechBrute
February 4, 2011, 06:20 PM
especially since HK was no where near capable of producing a civilian version on any scale. . Hahahaha... Seriously, a few thousand 416s are ordered for a limited number of go-fasts, and HK is at max capacity? Maybe if they stopped bothering with those sad little plastic things they make for peasants that no one buys, they could manage a few more AR knock-offs.

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