PA Trans. & Legal Question


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randytrapper
February 4, 2011, 05:51 PM
I've often wondered why in my state of PA. Folks are always willing to sell long guns, face to face cash and carry. I'm talking individuals not shops. But when it's a pistol we always go to a shop and have them 'transfer' the gun.

I thought guns where not registered? If that's the case why do folks like to have it transferred?

Thanks in advance for clearing this up for me.

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tyeo098
February 4, 2011, 06:02 PM
Thats odd, here in Florida I drove to Tampa to buy my CZ75B. Went to the guys house with my buddy. Handed him cash, filled out a "bill of sale" and he handed me the gun. Last I saw of him.

He has 3 teeth.

Also, I dont think PA has a registry like NY does. Maybe they're buddies (him and the GSO) thats a free 25$ FFL he's getting :D

mbogo
February 4, 2011, 06:07 PM
Perhaps they think it is required under PA law.

mbogo

Sam1911
February 4, 2011, 07:25 PM
Perhaps they think it is required under PA law.

And they would be RIGHT.

Randytrapper, the reason is that PA law requires handguns to be transferred through an FFL dealer. Most people don't like committing felonies -- especially ones involving some other buyer or seller they don't really know (like the undercover cop next door) -- so they comply.

From the NRA's page on PA laws: Any individual or dealer selling a handgun is required
to sell or transfer it at the place of business of a licensed
dealer or county sheriff ’s office. Transfers of all firearms
(handguns, rifles and shotguns) by a licensed dealer are
subject to an instant records check of the purchaser. The
purchaser must sign a transfer application/record of sale
for the purchase of a handgun. No transfer application/
record is necessary to transfer a rifle or shotgun. There is a
$2 fee for the instant check and a $3 firearm sale surcharge
to cover telephone costs. Transfers of handguns between
spouses, parent and child, grandparent and grandchild
or between active law enforcement officers are exempt
from the above requirements. Rifles and shotguns may
be transferred between unlicensed individuals.

http://www.nraila.org/statelawpdfs/PASL.pdf

randytrapper
February 4, 2011, 07:54 PM
Thank you very much Sam. So it's not really the firearm being transferred as much as the buyer being 'checked out' so to speak?

Sam1911
February 4, 2011, 08:16 PM
So it's not really the firearm being transferred as much as the buyer being 'checked out' so to speak? Not sure what you mean. The firearm must be transferred through a dealer.

ANY time an FFL dealer sells a gun to an unlicensed person (anyone who isn't a dealer) that gun must be transferred on a federal form 4473 and do a NICS check.

PA also does keep the record of sale on each handgun sold. Some will tell you that isn't gun registration. Not with a straight face, usually, but they must say that as registration would be against PA law.

Read this for more info: http://www.pafoa.org/law

...While almost any casual observer can see that this database clearly violates the spirit of 18 Pa.C.S. 6111.4 (Registration of firearms), in the Pennsylvania Supreme Court agreed with the Pennsylvania State Police that because the database is not a complete record of all handgun ownership (as people bringing handguns into the state do not have to register them), it does not.

randytrapper
February 4, 2011, 08:27 PM
Thanks again. I'll take some time and read through the link. I always thought the firearm was not registered at all. I did not think we had 'gun registration' in PA, or the USA for that matter. I'm ignorant to the legality's, that's why I thought that the transfer was maybe just 'checking the buyer out'.

Thanks again for the link.

geekWithA.45
February 5, 2011, 02:35 PM
Gun registration is explicitly forbidden in PA.

The PA State police has been required by law to record all handgun transfers that have taken place in the state (With a few exceptions, such as between immediate family members, people moving in, and inheritance) since the early 40's. (Via a form that is filed, either by FFL, or you can also go to the county sheriff, which is rarely done in practice.)

The PA supreme court has (insanely) ruled, based on what they openly admit is a technical, structural defect in the statutes, that this is not a gun registry, because there are those few legal exceptions.

Sam1911
February 5, 2011, 07:33 PM
The PA State police has been required by law to record all handgun transfers that have taken place in the state (With a few exceptions, such as between immediate family members, people moving in, and inheritance) since the early 40's. ...

And which has been reportedly abused a number of times to hassle legal gun owners when their gun's serial number doesn't show up in the sale database. Oh, no. It isn't a registration... :scrutiny:

General Geoff
February 5, 2011, 08:09 PM
And which has been reportedly abused a number of times to hassle legal gun owners when their gun's serial number doesn't show up in the sale database. Oh, no. It isn't a registration...

The upshot is that, if push comes to shove, the state police cannot use their database as proof of unlawful ownership, since the only reason they are able to legally maintain their database is because they have argued that it is not a registry, before the state supreme court.

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