Adjudicated Delinquent


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huntinhound8
February 5, 2011, 11:31 PM
If you are adjudicated Delinquent (age 15) of a crime that would have been a felony (marijuana on school grounds) and recieved 1 year supervised probation, can you still purchase firearms when you are 18? My probation officer said he will "seal" it. He said expunging is taking something off that was already on. He said that he won't even put it on. He said if he files my probation "satifactory," I won't have to worry with it. I am worried about it showing up on that NCIS check. He got me court ordered permission to hunt...that's good news, right? This is in Louisiana and is really bothering me...:banghead:

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Ohio Gun Guy
February 6, 2011, 12:05 AM
You need to talk to a lawer, and ask them with the particulars of your case, etc. Then you need to stay out of trouble. Even if this one doesnt ruin it for you, the next one will. Stay Far, Far away from the drugs AND THE PEOPLE WHO GOT YOU CLOSE TO THEM IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Good luck, keep your nose clean.

NavyLCDR
February 6, 2011, 12:50 AM
You can check yourself:

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/background-checks

huntinhound8
February 6, 2011, 01:10 AM
It will be another year and a half before I am 18. He has assured me that it will not interfere with me getting a job, but the 4473 is nothing to play with.

LiENUS
February 6, 2011, 01:37 AM
huntinhound8 You really need to talk to an attorney about this, but you have said a few things in previous posts that sound like you weren't actually convicted. Did you actually go to court and plead guilty, or receive an actual guilty conviction? Or did you instead go through pre trial intervention (sometimes known as DA's probation?) I'm guessing you likely had an attorney through this, did your family hire one or did you get a public defender? I would talk to that attorney about it, not your probation officer. Those guys are overworked and underpaid (did you know your probation officer had to get a 4 year college degree and still makes less than many people who don't even have a high school diploma or equivalent?) Don't rely on him being perfect, talk to an attorney to find out the specifics of the law and what you need to do to ensure you get your firearms privileges back. IANAL but I THINK things like that are subjected to automatic sealing of your records, but with America's war on drugs you never know, it's best to talk to an attorney to be 100% certain.

NavyLCDR
February 6, 2011, 02:01 AM
IANAL but I THINK things like that are subjected to automatic sealing of your records, but with America's war on drugs you never know, it's best to talk to an attorney to be 100% certain.

War on drugs AND guns....

huntinhound8
February 6, 2011, 02:10 AM
I had three charges...I ended up being charged with one of them as a deal, I believe. I had to go to court 3 times before I was finished...I don't think I went all the way to the actual "trial." I guess it was a plea bargin? It was a court appointed lawyer. My PO has said he has multiple jobs.

LiENUS
February 6, 2011, 02:46 AM
huntinhound8 you really should talk to an attorney, I can't even find the relevant statutes to point you in the right direction, I know expungement is LA RS 44:9 and states
(5)(a) Any person who has been convicted for the violation of a municipal or parish ordinance, a traffic violation, or for violation of a state statute which is classified as a misdemeanor may make a written motion to the district, parish, or city court in which the violation was prosecuted or to the district court located in the parish in which he was arrested, for expungement of the arrest record if five or more years has elapsed between the date of the motion and the successful completion of any sentence, deferred adjudication, or period of probation or parole.

But I don't believe this statute is applicable in this instance. As it sounds like your PO is doing some form of pretrial diversion. You really need to talk to an attorney about this as even if I could find the specific statute you would be under, Louisiana expungement law is very tricky and the courts have even struck down portions of the law as unconstitutional. So what is in the actual statutes may very well be wrong (don't forget Louisiana is the state that kept, maybe even still has them, the anti sodomy statutes on the books long after the us supreme court ruled them unconstitutional. Without a well versed Louisiana attorney we're just taking stabs in the dark here.

If you have an attorney in your family or maybe if your family knows one, go to them ask their advice. If it's not their area they'll probably recommend a good attorney for you who may or may not offer you a free consultation on the matter. You're 16 now right? Why not start cutting neighbors lawns to save up a few bucks just in case you need to hire an attorney for an actual expungement. If it turns out that you don't need to hire an attorney then you could buy yourself a new hunting rifle to celebrate.

Jeff H
February 6, 2011, 10:08 AM
Each state has different laws so you'll have to look them up, but I feel pretty confident that once the required time has expired and you can get the record expunged, you'll be fine. Sealed records are not expunged records so depending on State law, some people may still have access to them.

I don't think you can get a record expunged in just 3 years, it might take longer.

vaherder
February 6, 2011, 10:21 AM
You might also have to worry about being disqualified for illegal drug use.

Folks need to remember if you had an arrest expunged at the state or local level you must also jump through the hoops to get it removed from your FBI arrest record.

Not sure I want to be out in the woods hunting or at the range with someone who was stupid enough to bring mj onto school grounds and enough for it to be a felony.

Sounds like someone was dealing. Shame you were not tried as an adult.

I dont have a problem with legalizing mj.

Va Herder

LiENUS
February 6, 2011, 11:31 AM
vaherder, it sounds like he was 15 and made a stupid mistake. Maybe he was dealing, maybe it's a bad idea to let him have a firearm, but let's let him prove that when he's older. He's halfway through his probation now and apparently so far is doing fine.

justsumstuff
February 6, 2011, 01:00 PM
First thing is to define adjudicated delinquent. A quick internet search produced this:
http://www.family-court.org/Documents/What are the definitions.pdf
Did you violate state law or federal law? Big difference between the two. The probation officer can not get anything sealed.

Contrary to popular belief, it is my understanding that your juvenile records are NOT sealed when you turn 18 years. There are many jobs and careers, for example: joining the military, CCW permit, that you must sign an agreement that they can open your juvenile records, educational records, etc. But, you are only 15 so your chance to redeem yourself is to stay out of trouble.

It is the LAWYER'S job to interpret the law. Talk to the LAWYER that defended you, or one that is familiar with the juvenile and adult systems, and the transition between the two, where you live. Make sure you take your paperwork with you for the lawyer to review.
Good Luck!

Tomcat47
February 6, 2011, 01:27 PM
Hope this all works out for you and you Hunt happily ever after!

You do need more Legal Advice and stay on top of the situation and keep your nose clean!

KEEP ALL OF THE PAPERWORK FROM COURT AND PO! DONT LOSE ONE PIECE OF IT!

I had friend that was in similar situation over alcohol.
After going through the dog and pony show all was expunged blah! blah! blah!......couple years later he tried to purchase a handgun and was denied! When he called in to find out what was wrong, they had NO record of expunged and if not for his paperwork he kept it would have never been removed. All ended well...but it took a few months and he got his gun.

We ALL need 2nd chances through life for different things!

Sounds like your PO is trying to help! Make your PO take notice of the changes you make in your life!

Heck! all this hoopla and confusion on the laws might spark an interest in some sort of law career for you....you never know!

William Lee
February 6, 2011, 01:46 PM
Marijuana is becoming an increasingly visible thing and runs up against gun rights in my state (CO) more often than I'm sure it used to. I don't really have a problem with someone who used to smoke weed owning a gun. It's the same as alcohol in my book--just don't do it while you're shooting or carrying and the world is not likely to come to an end. However, since it is still against the law, my advice to anyone who's serious about their second amendment rights is to just avoid it all together.

vaherder
February 6, 2011, 07:31 PM
Simple mistake is being busted for simple possession not being charged with three violations of the law. Simple possession gets you a slap on the wrist, fined and maybe a years worth of unsupervised probation.

I am guessing he was charged with possession, possession of pipe or something similar and possession with intent. I am also guessing he rolled.

I am all for giving folks second chances and do it all the time at my companies but this was beyond dumb.

Dumb is driving a few coworkers to another restaurant after you get off and they cutting up a half pound in the back of your parent's car. Thought it was kind of cool since these guys were older. Its was dumb and I was lucky I didnt get pulled over.

Stupid or under the influence is having any type of contraband or illegal drugs on school grounds.

My kid it would be a long time before he owned a firearm and living at home. Maybe when he turned 21 or 22yo. 18yo not a chance. And as retired Navy Officer i know just how dumb 18yo men and women can be. You get one second chance.

You need to talk with a lawyer. Not your probation officer. If you were charged as an adult and then bargained it down to a juvie offense the arrest still will show as an adult charge. Pay the ambulance chaser his/her money its one of the cost of doing something stupid.

Va herder

huntinhound8
February 6, 2011, 07:39 PM
"Sounds like someone was dealing. Shame you were not tried as an adult."

"Not sure I want to be out in the woods hunting or at the range with someone who was stupid enough to bring mj onto school grounds and enough for it to be a felony."

1. Straight A's
2. $5 worth


No, I was not dealing, you fool. I actually have only tried Marijuana once in my life. My probation officer is indeed trying to help me because he realizes that someone should have a second chance if they try to purchase a MINUSCULE amount of Marijuana.

He has said he will seal it...can you purchase if it is sealed and not expunged?

huntinhound8
February 6, 2011, 07:55 PM
I got three charges because...I don't know. I was only charged with the one I actually commited, possession within 1000 feet of school grounds. It was brought up in court that I only commited one of the three. No pipes. No papers. I only had possession of the stuff for about 20 seconds. The principle saw us and caught us. I was the purchaser.

CollinLeon
February 6, 2011, 08:12 PM
The good thing about Louisiana is that no matter whether you could get a CHL or not, you can at least still carry in your vehicle... And open carry apparently...

http://www.laopencarry.org/how-do-i-know-open-carry-is-legal-in-louisiana-t73.html

CollinLeon
February 6, 2011, 08:29 PM
No, I was not dealing, you fool.


And you think calling someone who is an elder a "fool" is going to help your cause here? Not likely...

huntinhound8
February 6, 2011, 08:30 PM
What is a "CHL?"

huntinhound8
February 6, 2011, 08:32 PM
And you think calling someone who is an elder a "fool" is going to help your cause here? Not likely...

I assume it would not...

CollinLeon
February 6, 2011, 08:34 PM
CHL = Concealed Handgun License

CCP = Concealed Carry Permit

Different states call it different things...

Looking back at your original post, I see you were just asking about the ability to just purchase a firearm, not about getting a CHL or CCP...

With regard to that, there is always the FTF type purchases...

CollinLeon
February 6, 2011, 08:37 PM
Correct... Youngsters should not call us elders "fools", no matter whether we are or not... One of these days YOU will be our age and complaining about the lack of respect shown by all the young whippersnappers also...

huntinhound8
February 6, 2011, 08:40 PM
"FTF?"

huntinhound8
February 6, 2011, 08:45 PM
Correct... Youngsters should not call us elders "fools", no matter whether we are or not
My apologies, but Sounds like someone was dealing. Shame you were not tried as an adult was uncalled for...

CollinLeon
February 6, 2011, 08:46 PM
FTF = "Face to Face"...

A firearm transaction between two people that requires no paperwork...

CollinLeon
February 6, 2011, 08:48 PM
My apologies, but was uncalled for...
That's what you get for not giving a complete description of all the pertinent facts of the incident... If you leave things open and let people fill in the blanks, you have no right to complain if the blanks didn't get filled in correctly...

Leaving things out make it look like you are trying to hide things... People don't tend to hide minor things, they hide major things... His assumptions were not unreasonable considering the way you skirted the issue...

As a father of a teenager though, I really like the fact that you teenagers are so POOR at lying... Makes my job so much easier...

tyeo098
February 6, 2011, 08:50 PM
Face to face, private transactions.
No 4473 required. Great way to get guns without the gun-shop nonsense.

HOWEVER, if you shouldnt be owning a gun in the first place, dont even try it, unless, you like 10 years min in jail. (FL law)

kingpin008
February 6, 2011, 08:50 PM
CollinLeon - Respect goes both ways. IMHO, vaherder was making an awful lot of assumptions about HuntinHound based on the posted info, and not treating him very well as a result. To me, the fool comment was a bit rude, but being someone's elder doesn't give you the right pass judgement on someone based on what you assume the story to be. It also means that you should be smart enough to give people the benefit of the doubt.

So if a lecture is in order, it should be given to vaherder as well, IMHO.

CollinLeon
February 6, 2011, 09:03 PM
kingpin008 -- To me at least, it sounded like vaherder just has had enough experience with teenagers to automatically figure that they are lying to him when they leave something out... Perhaps it's not so much that we hate being lied to, but we hate being lied to so POORLY by them... It's like they think that we can't remember what it was like to be teenagers...

kingpin008
February 6, 2011, 09:09 PM
Collin - I can see where you'd think that, but even if that's the case, it's unnecessary and rude to just jump down the guy's throat like that, especially when it's obvious that he's trying to make things right. Hence my comment about respect going both ways.

CollinLeon
February 6, 2011, 09:13 PM
Collin - I can see where you'd think that, but even if that's the case, it's unnecessary and rude to just jump down the guy's throat like that, especially when it's obvious that he's trying to make things right. Hence my comment about respect going both ways.
Sounds like you must not deal with teenagers that much... After awhile, you get tired of being lied to so POORLY... It's actually an insult to think that they believe that we are so stupid that we'll believe some of the stories that they tell... Trying to get the full story about something from them is like pulling teeth!

huntinhound8
February 6, 2011, 09:24 PM
Gentlemen, I understand both sides of this, but I would like to return to the original discussion. Now, the 4473 says: 135833 I have been given court ordered permission to hunt. I have papers. It says: "The person is not prohibited by the law of the jurisdiction where the conviction occured from recieving or possessing firearms." I have permission to possess a firearm when hunting so...

CollinLeon
February 6, 2011, 09:30 PM
As such, if I was you, I would go under the assumption that I could legally purchase a firearm in a FTF transaction. Whether you can at a gun store, I cannot guarantee it... I've known people who were denied they gave their SSN, but were allowed it when they did not give their SSN. There are too many cases of people having similar names, so there are a certain amount of purchase rejections of people who should not be rejected.

kingpin008
February 6, 2011, 09:30 PM
If you have court papers allowing you access to firearms, it seems to me that you're good to go otherwise as well. However, I would still visit a lawyer and make sure. Many lawyers will provide a consultation for free or a small charge, during which you can get an idea of whether or not you'll actually need to hire them.

If you decide to go that route (which I think would be the smartest way to go) definitely bring this "hunting permission slip" with you, as it may be useful in providing a rebuttal to any denial you may encounter.

CollinLeon
February 6, 2011, 09:33 PM
Or just go buy a firearm and if the NICS check fails, they will give you a transaction number that you can then contact the FBI with for appeal...

kingpin008
February 6, 2011, 09:40 PM
But if he answers YES to the "have you been convicted" question, he won't get to the NICS - the dealer will halt the sale right there. And if he answers NO, he'll be lying on the form, which is a bad idea.

Unfortunately, I really don't see a way through this that doesn't involve a lawyer.

huntinhound8
February 6, 2011, 09:41 PM
Or just go buy a firearm and if the NICS check fails, they will give you a transaction number that you can then contact the FBI with for appeal...
I would have already, but I will have to wait another year and a half before I am able.

Can you call the ATF or FBI and get them to run a NCIS check on you over the phone?

huntinhound8
February 6, 2011, 09:45 PM
Is a sealed record able to pass the 4473, or just expunged?

2WheelsGood
February 6, 2011, 09:54 PM
Just claim you didn't inhale. It's good enough for the president, it should be good enough to get a gun.

huntinhound8
February 6, 2011, 09:59 PM
:confused: Wow

kingpin008
February 6, 2011, 10:04 PM
Just claim you didn't inhale. It's good enough for the president, it should be good enough to get a gun.

Way to not contribute to the thread.

Huntin - To my knowledge, there is no way for a non-FFL or non-LEO to just call up and have a check run.

Why the resistance to consulting a lawyer? As mentioned earlier, it may not cost you a thing.

huntinhound8
February 6, 2011, 10:10 PM
I am 16, and if I was 18, I would contact one. I may try to contact one later, but I will stick to this thread as of now.

kingpin008
February 6, 2011, 10:16 PM
Fair enough. I just don't think you're going to get anything more specific, unfortunately. Hopefully I'm proven wrong though.

2WheelsGood
February 6, 2011, 10:40 PM
Way to not contribute to the thread.Contribute? Lighten up, Francis. Asking legal advice on an internet forum is beyond ridiculous. It's not even a forum of lawyers, it's a forum of gun enthusiasts! Threads like these should even be allowed to continue.

Tomcat47
February 6, 2011, 10:43 PM
now Hound!

-1 on the fool remark! :eek:
BUT
+1 on the apology! :)

This is The High Road You will get good advice, info, and respect here no matter your age....if you give it in return. Kudos!

NavyLT give I believe your BEST/SIMPLE option! http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/background-checks

For $18 You could have a lot of worry off your shoulders!
It already appears you have the right to hunt....so hunt!
Worry about buying a firearm later!
I would assume that since you love to Hunt you already have the tools to accomplish that.

this is from that site:
Who May Request a Copy of a Record (or Proof That a Record Does Not Exist)

Only you can request a copy of your own Identification Record.

Individuals typically make this request for personal review, to challenge the information on record, to satisfy a requirement for adopting a child in the U.S. or internationally, or to satisfy a requirement to live, work, or travel in a foreign country (i.e., police certificate, letter of good conduct, criminal history background, etc.).

And then you will have information to move on or move forward on more legal methods of getting a mistake off your record and on with life.

Heck! Im even requesting a copy of my own...for $18...I would like to have it.
Thanks....NavyLT

kingpin008
February 6, 2011, 11:08 PM
Threads like these should even be allowed to continue.

Report it to a Mod then. Otherwise, why bother posting nonsense on a thread where someone is asking for help?

huntinhound8
February 6, 2011, 11:15 PM
It already appears you have the right to hunt....so hunt!
Worry about buying a firearm later!
I would assume that since you love to Hunt you already have the tools to accomplish that.

I went squirrel hunting earlier with my bolt action 12 GA...I do have "the tools," but I would like to purchase a higher-end rifle. I have a Remington 770 in 30-06.

2WheelsGood
February 6, 2011, 11:22 PM
why bother posting nonsense on a thread where someone is asking for help?To lighten things up. No other reason. When someone with a criminal record who isn't even old enough to vote starts asking for legal advice on an internet forum, the elders should be smart enough to stop at: "talk to a lawyer". Or maybe: "talk to your parents". Nothing else needs to be said.

Tomcat47
February 6, 2011, 11:25 PM
Cool!

Send off for that record and I would say in a couple weeks you will know for sure what you need to do next.

And if you need more nonsense?....keep coming back to THR!

At least we will keep you occupied with good things to talk about!

Go hunting and be patient!

kingpin008
February 7, 2011, 10:10 AM
2Wheels - As I mentioned, if it doesn't have to go any farther, why not report it to a Mod for closure and leave it at that? What's the point of lightening up a thread that needs closed anyway?

2WheelsGood
February 7, 2011, 10:28 AM
What's the point of lightening up a thread that needs closed anyway?I guess for the same reason I don't call the police every time I see a group of kids loitering, or someone speeding, or someone wearing white after Labor Day.

Since when has lightening up a thread been such a bad thing? Or are you just bothered that someone made a joke while you're trying so hard to be a lawyer to a 16 year old? Are you a lawyer? I didn't think so.

kingpin008
February 7, 2011, 11:00 AM
Since when has lightening up a thread been such a bad thing? Or are you just bothered that someone made a joke while you're trying so hard to be a lawyer to a 16 year old? Are you a lawyer? I didn't think so.

I'm simply wondering why you'd spend time commenting to a thread that you think should be closed, instead of reporting it to a Mod and leaving it alone.

I'd love to hear your explanation behind that "trying to be a lawyer" bit. I've commented multiple times suggesting that the OP contact an ACTUAL lawyer to settle his problem. Even when I've offered what I thought the solution was, I still suggested contacting an ACTUAL lawyer. So I'd think it's pretty obvious that I'm not one, wouldn't you? :banghead:

Anyway, that's the last thing I'll say on the subject, in the interest of keeping this thread on track. If you think it needs closed, notify a Mod. If you'd like to continue our discussion, feel free to PM me.

CollinLeon
February 7, 2011, 02:12 PM
It seems to me that every time a thread starts getting interesting, the censors (moderators) close the thread and stop discussion. I really hate that...

dirtykid
February 7, 2011, 02:47 PM
i'd agree that was pre-judgemental of LEON,, i had many charges as a juvenile,, starting at 13,,B+E, trespassing,possession of small amount,possession of paraphenelia,allowing open bottle,carrying a loaded handgun,, all before i was 18 except the handgun charge, which i got 3-months on the later side of 18yrs,, when i went to apply for my permit i was almost POSITIVE i would encounter some resistance, but no problems whatsoever i got my permit in the standard time to process, and have had for many years,, point is not everybody who makes mistakes early in life by smoking pot ,or drinking and driving,, etc isint gonna be a bad person ALL his life !!

hso
February 7, 2011, 03:28 PM
He's 16 and can't legally purchase any firearm so there's no point in attempting a NICs check.

He's a minor.The only advice we should provide to him is to work with his parents and PO to find out if he is in a pretrial diversion program or was actually convicted of a felony (or "no contested"). He could certainly engage an attorney to find out if he was convicted of anything or not that will affect his ability to own and purchase firearms, but that seems like an expense that isn't needed for a couple of years. Once he's 18 it becomes more relevant to work with an attorney. Using the FBI criminal record system sounds like a good use of the money, but because of his minor status and possible data delays may not net him any information. Still, the cost is less than a trip to the movies with pizza.

DenaliPark
February 7, 2011, 08:49 PM
No, I was not dealing, you fool. I actually have only tried Marijuana once in my life. My probation officer is indeed trying to help me because he realizes that someone should have a second chance if they try to purchase a MINUSCULE amount of Marijuana



You should know that any conviction for illicit narcotics is considered a predicate disqualification to purchase a firearm....

huntinhound8
February 7, 2011, 09:42 PM
You should know that any conviction for illicit narcotics is considered a predicate disqualification to purchase a firearm....

i had many charges as a juvenile,, starting at 13,,B+E, trespassing,possession of small amount,possession of paraphenelia,allowing open bottle....when i went to apply for my permit i was almost POSITIVE i would encounter some resistance, but no problems whatsoever i got my permit in the standard time to process, and have had for many years

He says it isn't "possession of small amount,possession of paraphenelia"

NavyLCDR
February 7, 2011, 10:24 PM
You should know that any conviction for illicit narcotics is considered a predicate disqualification to purchase a firearm....

Care to post a statute that backs up your theory?

cskny
February 7, 2011, 10:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingpin008
why bother posting nonsense on a thread where someone is asking for help?
To lighten things up. No other reason. When someone with a criminal record who isn't even old enough to vote starts asking for legal advice on an internet forum, the elders should be smart enough to stop at: "talk to a lawyer". Or maybe: "talk to your parents". Nothing else needs to be said.


2wheelsgood, your point isn't lost on all of us. Nonsense masquerading as "valuable" is worse nonsense. In some cases, it's probably dangerous.

Internet legal advice for a convicted underage criminal from a host of non-lawyers certainly seems to fall into this category.

And Kingpin008, how can you take this post so seriously? The OP doesn't even know what he was charged with or pled too! He doesn't know what steps he took in the process. He doesn't think he went "all the way" to actual trial...what?!?

2wheelsgood's level of seriousness is exactly what this post deserves. This kid FIRST needs to read his own court papers and understand the legal process he went through. He apparently isn't even clear on what he pled guilty too (or has been hinted, isn't being quite transparent). THEN, he needs to talk to his parents and a lawyer. That's it.

He doesn't need the internet trying to help him avoid the hard and real consequences. Or worse, getting him in more trouble.


"I had three charges...I ended up being charged with one of them as a deal, I believe. I had to go to court 3 times before I was finished...I don't think I went all the way to the actual "trial." I guess it was a plea bargin? It was a court appointed lawyer"

hso
February 7, 2011, 10:34 PM
How does a straight A student at 16 not know what he was charged with nor what he's serving and under what terms?

The short answer is that an internet forum isn't the place to get legal questions answered when you're in the legal system.

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