Cylinder flutes don't line up perfect on each side of frame--problem???


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ExMachina
February 6, 2011, 03:08 PM
New S&W 22-4 (so, a 6 shot revolver).

Something looks weird about how the cylinder indexes--if you look @ the (unloaded) gun from the front, the chambers don't look perfectly even as they line up. It looks like the cylinder is always a tiny bit over-rotated.

Then I looked at the flutes to see how they align with the topstrap, and sure enough, on one side of the topstrap, the flute is always slightly under the topstrap while on the other there is always a little bit of the cylinder flat showing before the flute (make sense?). This strange alignment is consistent from chamber to chamber.

Sounds like a timing issue perhaps? However, if I look down the barrel with a flashlight I can't SEE a timing problem with any of the chambers.

So is this just something about how the frame was made? How the cylinder was made??

Doesn't anybody else have a six gun like this?

I'm trying to decide if it's a real problem that I want S&W to address.

Thanks for any advice.

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Jim K
February 6, 2011, 03:16 PM
A problem? Yes, I think so. But if the chambers line up and the gun is in time, it is more a cosmetic problem than otherwise.

I think a phone call or letter to S&W might be advisable. Tell them that you see a problem and you would like to return the gun so they can look at it. I think they might have you return it on their dime and fix it. Even if it doesn't affect the shooting, it won't look right and will detract from their product.

Jim

ExMachina
February 6, 2011, 03:30 PM
Thanks Jim. You are correct that it's a problem on at least one level, especially on a brand new Classic Series.

That puts the list of problems for the S&W service shop to address at 8 :what:...hope they like to read :D

fiodorpugach
February 18, 2011, 05:06 PM
I have exactly the same trouble with my brand new S&W 500 4":

http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa424/fiodorpugach/Cylinder.jpg

The flutes asymmetric is really noticeable when you look from the top. The right side of the frame continues in the flute without the step; and there is a well- noticeable step on the left side; the cylinder looks shifted to the left. I clearly understand that the trouble is cosmetic-only. But I don't want any cosmetic defects on the new gun with $1319 MSRP! I sent an e-mail to S&W; we will see how fast they will respond.

Jim Watson
February 18, 2011, 05:09 PM
I have a S&W M640 with flutes not centered between chambers.
Didn't notice it until I had it nicely engraved and the pattern did not show the same on both sides. Oh, well, it still looks pretty and shoots well.

dewalt-2
February 18, 2011, 05:56 PM
My 686-6 is perfect. I keep reading about all the problems folks are having with the new Smith's. I don't have a single issue with mine, did I just get lucky?

ExMachina
February 18, 2011, 06:15 PM
My revolver's @ S&W right now. We'll see how they handle it.

Seems like a new cylinder would not be an unreasonable solution.

gamestalker
February 19, 2011, 02:06 AM
I have a 66-2, and a 66-5, and 1980s 29. If someone were to ask me what I think of S&Ws my reply would be they are a strong and beautiful wheel gun. I also have some Ruger's but they are just plain strong and don't have the same precision functions of my Smiths. Don't get me wrong, a Super Red Hawk is one of the most beautiful wheel guns I've ever seen, but there is still something about a Smith that puts it in a class all it's own. I have no problem with other brands either, having several Taurus wheelies and auto loaders and like them for their specific plus features too. Actually, I think we, us, have an addiction to which leads us to want a little bit of everything out there, and if resources allow, to own a little bit of everything.

saemetric
February 19, 2011, 06:45 PM
I feel the same way about my Colts

Dave T
February 20, 2011, 02:06 PM
This is a sad commentary on a once proud American gun maker. Wonder how much more "corner cutting" and "production cost reductions" Smith and make before they are just another name like Taurus or Rossi. Dang!

Dave

glocking26
February 20, 2011, 02:24 PM
I think the next cost cutting measure will be making there guns over seas. Yea it's sad to see a once great company go down hill so fast. And I'm sure they will blame the unions. That's the easiest way out.

fiodorpugach
March 3, 2011, 06:38 PM
I have exactly the same trouble with my brand new S&W 500 4". The flutes asymmetric is really noticeable when you look from the top. The right side of the frame continues in the flute without the step; and there is a well- noticeable step on the left side; the cylinder looks shifted to the left. I clearly understand that the trouble is cosmetic-only. But I don't want any cosmetic defects on the new gun with $1319 MSRP! I sent an e-mail to S&W; we will see how fast they will respond.

Last week on Wednesday I was passing by Springfield MA during my business trip; and I just dropped the pistol to S&W plant for repair. Today - just in one week! - I received it back in the mail. The cylinder was changed to the new one, it is nice and neat now; b/c gap was adjusted to 0.006 (from 0.01). Good service! Thank you S&W!

OldCavSoldier
March 3, 2011, 07:30 PM
Flutes are all BS...people get wrapped around the axle on something that just does not enter into it....all cosmetic...that's why any company that makes revolvers just needs to do away with machining flutes....my opinion...........

ExMachina
March 3, 2011, 10:17 PM
FYI, S&W replaced my cylinder (for other reasons)

The new cylinder also has the flutes off-center. though not by as much.

Strange since I has always assumed that the cylinder was all machined at the same time; looks like instead the chambers and stops are machined after the flutes are cut.

ExMachina
March 3, 2011, 10:21 PM
Flutes are all BS...people get wrapped around the axle on something that just does not enter into it....all cosmetic...

It's true, but most of what we pay for when it comes to guns is cosmetic, right?

I mean heck, this is a revolver forum after all--if we truly had hearts of stone and thought that beauty was a waste of time we'd all be shooting Glocks :D

marv
March 5, 2011, 12:15 AM
You, my friend, have just opened up a BIIIIIIIG can of worms. Every revolver owner on this forum, me included, is going to check them all. Manufacturers' switchboards and servers will go into smokin' overload.

david58
March 5, 2011, 10:15 AM
FYI, S&W replaced my cylinder (for other reasons)

The new cylinder also has the flutes off-center. though not by as much.

Strange since I has always assumed that the cylinder was all machined at the same time; looks like instead the chambers and stops are machined after the flutes are cut.
But it is a very simple thing to have a jig/tool in the machine that assures proper alignment. A detail very easy to be consistent about. Especially since we are talking premium guns, and the cost to do it right should be already calculated in....

RUT
March 5, 2011, 10:20 AM
>>Every revolver owner on this forum, me included, is going to check them all.<<

Not all of us are that "anal". :p

ExMachina
March 5, 2011, 11:07 AM
Not all of us are that "anal".

i know that you're half-joking and i agreee that if it's not something that you notice then it's not a problem. but the first cylinder that shipped with my gun really looked weird.

ExMachina
March 5, 2011, 11:08 AM
But it is a very simple thing to have a jig/tool in the machine that assures proper alignment. A detail very easy to be consistent about. Especially since we are talking premium guns, and the cost to do it right should be already calculated in....

the scary thing is that if there's no quality control here, flutes that are too off center could result in chamber walls that are too thin.

therefore, we have to assume that S&W does check for this, which means that those cylinders with noticeably off-center flutes were deemed "acceptable"

Friendly, Don't Fire!
March 5, 2011, 12:03 PM
OK,
I had to check my two S&W's and they are both PERFECT.
Both are perfect through every stop of the cylinder!

Haxby
March 5, 2011, 02:42 PM
"if we truly had hearts of stone and thought that beauty was a waste of time we'd all be shooting Glocks"

I have nothing to add.

General Geoff
March 5, 2011, 03:39 PM
Flutes are all BS...people get wrapped around the axle on something that just does not enter into it....all cosmetic...that's why any company that makes revolvers just needs to do away with machining flutes....my opinion...........
Flutes do reduce the rotating mass of the cylinder, which in turn reduces wear & tear from rapid double action firing.

Guillermo
March 5, 2011, 03:41 PM
people get wrapped around the axle on something that just does not enter into it....all cosmetic

so when you buy a new car you don't care if the paint is all the same color because it is just "cosmetic"?



I would care.

And the fact that these guns make it out of the factory demonstrates just how far a once great company has fallen.

Very sad.

The Dan in Black
March 5, 2011, 04:51 PM
Man you have me all paranoid about my 22-4 now.

It doesn't look off but I could barely notice it in the picture you posted so there's no telling.

- D

Friendly, Don't Fire!
March 5, 2011, 04:53 PM
Honestly, had either of my guns been off, I more than likely would not have done a thing, as they both are really good shooters!:scrutiny:

ExMachina
March 5, 2011, 05:05 PM
Man you have me all paranoid about my 22-4 now.

It doesn't look off but I could barely notice it in the picture you posted so there's no telling.


for the record: mine was noticeably worse than the picture posted here by fiodorpugach.

ExMachina
March 5, 2011, 05:08 PM
Honestly, had either of my guns been off, I more than likely would not have done a thing, as they both are really good shooters!

the original reason i posted was that i wanted to know if flutes being-off center indicated a strange timing problem with my new gun.

if i already had a gun that shot fine and i only just now noticed it, i probably wouldn't worry too much about it either.

NMGonzo
March 5, 2011, 07:24 PM
I am going to check my Taurus.

By feel alone I know I have one that is out of spec, shoots right but feels wrong when setting the trigger.

gunboat57
March 11, 2011, 07:08 AM
Not flutes, but cylinder related.

Anybody had this problem?

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p142/gunboat57/SW%20Model%202515/25-15RATCHET1redu.jpg

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p142/gunboat57/SW%20Model%202515/25-15RATCHET2redu.jpg

This is my brand new S&W Model 25-15. The gouges look like the milling cutter wasn't lifted out of the way before indexing the cylinder while machining.

I almost never buy new guns. But I figured it was worth splurging on a new 25-15. But with buggered screw slots, razor sharp burrs, and these gouges I have to admit I'm disappointed. I do have to report that S&W is sending me a replacement screw. I haven't heard back about the gouges yet.

BTW, the flutes are OK on mine.

Remllez
March 11, 2011, 05:27 PM
I agree with those that feel this once proud great American company is going downhill and soon they will be just another gun company with overpriced second rate handguns. I will not buy anything made by them after the 1960's. Quality is a hard to find commodity in the US. and for the price Smith and Wesson charges they should be ashamed at the product they have been putting out the last few years.

Used to be you paid a premium for quality and in the past you got a finely crafted long lasting beautiful gun that was almost a work of art. Companies that rely on their name to sell substandard products will fall by the wayside and rightfully so! We as consumers are partly to blame.

Smith and Wessons Centenial line is an attempt to sell the quality firearms we all grew up with and from what I can tell they fall woefully short of the standard set by the originals.
Don't get me wrong I presently own 7 of their revolvers and over my 40 plus years of shooting have owned close to 50 Smiths.

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