Interesting.... France has invited Germany...


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Mike Irwin
January 2, 2004, 11:44 AM
to next June's D-Day commemorations.


"BERLIN (Reuters) - Germany Friday hailed its first invitation to attend
ceremonies for the D-Day landings 60 years ago, when Allied forces
stormed ashore in northern France in World War II.

"It is a sign of enormous significance 60 years
after the so-called D-Day landing of Allied
forces in Normandy that not only the
victorious powers, but also the former
adversary, should be invited," government
spokesman Thomas Steg said.

Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder will be the first
German leader to attend a commemoration of the June 1944 D-Day
landings after being invited by French President Jacques Chirac.

The ceremony marks the Allied campaign launched at dawn on June 6,
1944, to storm the Normandy beaches at the start of the campaign to
drive Nazi forces from France.

Thousands were killed in the operation, but the invasion, led by
Americans, British and Canadian troops, hastened the end for Hitler's
armies, already reeling before a Soviet onslaught.

France refrained from inviting then Chancellor Helmut Kohl to the
high-profile 50th anniversary.

"You will recall the discussions 10 years ago after Germany was not
invited," Steg said. "It is a sign that times have really changed."

He said the gesture was a further sign that the post-war era was being
consigned to history.

A spokeswoman for Chirac said the invitation reflected a spirit of
reconciliation and peace.

Germany was also pleased the other former Allied powers in World War
II appeared to welcome Schroeder's presence, he said.

Ties between the German and French leaders have warmed in the past
year, affirmed by their joint opposition, along with Russia, to the U.S.-led
war in Iraq (news - web sites).

A year ago, German MPs visited France for 40th anniversary
celebrations of the Elysee Treaty which sealed their post-war
reconciliation.

This year's D-Day anniversary will take place shortly after Schroeder's
own 60th birthday. Born on April 7, 1944, he was two months old when
the Allied landings took place. He never knew his father, who was killed
in action in Romania not long after he was born.

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DigitalWarrior
January 2, 2004, 12:06 PM
I got even money that my granpa is gonna get some of the ones he missed sixty-years ago.:D

7.62FullMetalJacket
January 2, 2004, 01:25 PM
The cheese eating surrender monkeys have emasculated the Germans into sausage eating surrender monkeys. No surprise there. :barf:

Jeff White
January 2, 2004, 01:36 PM
Are you sure they aren't gathering to commemorate their joint defense of the continent against the American led coalition that invaded that day?

Maybe we did leave the Vichy government in power....

Jeff

foghornl
January 2, 2004, 01:37 PM
I have an invitation for both countries, but there is no way I can publish it on The High Road.....

:D :neener:

tiberius
January 2, 2004, 01:51 PM
Well they were there for the original, they might as well be there for the memorial. :)

I just hope/pray that the memorial is not for "those lost on both sides" :cuss: There were good guys and bad guys in that war and it must me acknowledged IMHO.

Don Gwinn
January 2, 2004, 08:32 PM
I just assumed it was going to be an invitation to occupy Paris. . . . .

Hal
January 2, 2004, 09:16 PM
"It is a sign of enormous significance 60 years
after the so-called D-Day"So called"?!?!

hastened the end for Hitler's
armies, already reeling before a Soviet onslaught. "already reeling"?!?

!Ties between the German and French leaders have warmed in the past year, affirmed by their joint opposition, along with Russia, to the U.S.-led war in Iraq
Ahh, that explains the other 2.:barf:

armabill
January 2, 2004, 09:52 PM
Does this mean that Germany will be rolling in with their tanks again?

cookhj
January 2, 2004, 11:11 PM
if they do, i say we let them this time.

Mike Irwin
January 3, 2004, 01:12 AM
""So called"?!?!"

Yep, so called because that's what it's gone down as in popular lexicon, but every invasion had a D Day, and an H Hour.

The proper name for all D Day activities was Operation Overlord.

Don't know why I thought of this earlier, but on the 50th anniversary of Overlord the Russians were pissing and moaning because they hadn't been invited to participate.

I forget who it was, maybe George Will, who pointed out that the Russians certainly didn't invite any of the Western Allies to participate in the 50th observance of the breaking of the siege of Stalingrad.

Hal
January 3, 2004, 05:26 AM
Re: Overlord

Mike - yep, I'm aware of that. I'm also aware that if you say "D-day" to 10,000 people in the USA over 40 - 9,999 are going to think June 6 1944 -
(only one sicko is going to think Doris ;))

I've never heard 6/6/44- D-day referred to as "so-called" before. I can't help but think if they tried to refer to it as "so-called" a decade or 2 ago when their were more survivors of it alive, it'd be a whole different story.

greyhound
January 3, 2004, 08:32 AM
I just hope/pray that the memorial is not for "those lost on both sides

I'd lay odds on it:



He said the gesture was a further sign that the post-war era was being consigned to history

Whatever happened to "never forget"?

:cuss:

Mike Irwin
January 3, 2004, 11:33 AM
I know 4 people for whom D-Day doesn't mean June 6, 1944.

For 1 it means February 19, 1945.

For 3 it means April 1, 1945.

Only their D-Day didn't get the monicker. They just got the same amount of blood and death. Or more.

Hutch
January 3, 2004, 03:18 PM
Aw, Mike, you're nitpicking. Even those who fought on Iwo Jima or Okinawa, like my father-in-law, would recognize that 6/6/44 was the day MOST people would describe as D-Day. Heck, you left out all the other PTO D-Days as well.:neener:

I think the whole tenor of the article, with it's use of the qualifier "so-called", and the description of the Germans as "already reeling" from the Russkies reveals an anti-US bias. But that's just me.

trooper
January 3, 2004, 05:25 PM
Yeah, right.

I could post an article about German cuisine... or about housing projects in Hamburg... or even about something as boring as the German tax reform and still there would be plenty of people around here coming up and screaming, "Yeah, I've always known that all Germans are nazis/cowards/traitors/psychos/whatever."

Sorry guys, but I'm tired of people who think that nothing good ever came from my country except quality firearms.

"Never forget" means something different than "Never cease to rub it in their faces that they're all full of crap."

I was born 36 years after D-Day and I think I don't have to feel guilty for any historical events.

7.62FullMetalJacket
January 3, 2004, 05:49 PM
I am quite satisfied with my Teutonic heritage. Germans have always been warriors, and good ones at that.

Germany was crushed twice in the 20th century for bad behavior, and rightfully so. And, due to the PC crowd, and the "never again" crowd, Germany will not be allowed to be manifestly macho for the forseeable future. The PC crowd has doomed your generation to never live down the Third Reich. I feel the same way about slavery here. I had nothing to do with it, but I happen to be the "Oppressor" by default.

This too shall pass.

BTW, you also make great cars and coffee makers.

trooper
January 3, 2004, 06:06 PM
Germany was crushed twice in the 20th century for bad behavior, and rightfully so.

Correct.

And, due to the PC crowd, and the "never again" crowd, Germany will not be allowed to be manifestly macho for the forseeable future.

Yeah, and that's what some people on this forum complained about in not-so-nice words (Germany's position regarding the Iraq war). I think I remember some suggestions that involved "Germany" and "nuclear test site".

Look, we can happily debate about all kinds of political and historical issues but posts like this

I have an invitation for both countries, but there is no way I can publish it on The High Road.....

are just as thoughtless and dumb as the uninformed and ideological anti-americanism of some of my countrymen.


Regards,

Trooper

enfield
January 3, 2004, 06:07 PM
Germany historically has invaded France every 40 years or so. They're overdue.

trooper
January 3, 2004, 06:11 PM
Germany historically has invaded France every 40 years or so. They're overdue.

What should we want from France? Cheese? Nah, we can import better one from Holland. Cars? Aw, COME ON... we're in Germany.

Hmm, maybe mediterranean beaches? Alltogether with the respective hordes of British tourists? No way...

Seems like there's no gain for us :D :D

Mike Irwin
January 3, 2004, 09:39 PM
"Heck, you left out all the other PTO D-Days as well."

That's because I don't know anyone who was a Guadalcanal, Tarawa, Kawalajine (sp?), or the Philippines.

Yes, most people do describe June 6 as "D Day," but what I'm saying is that calling it the "so called" D Day isn't a pejoritive -- it's an accurate description, as is the description of the Germans already reeling from the Russians. By the time the Normandy Invasion came off, the Soviets were extremely close to pushing the Germans off of Soviet territory. I believe in some areas they had.

Mike Irwin
January 3, 2004, 09:46 PM
"Sorry guys, but I'm tired of people who think that nothing good ever came from my country except quality firearms."

Not everyone, Trooper.

Not everyone believes that Germany was, or remains, a screaming hoard of closet Nazis bent on reinventing the Reich.

Interestingly, a man whom I consider to be a second father, the father of one of my best and oldest friends, was at the age of 10 handed a Panzerfaust and told to defend the Reich.

His Father-in-Law was one of 5,000 Germans, out of nearly 100,000 captured at Stalingrad, who lived long enough to be repatrioted -- in 1956.



All I can really say, though, is just be glad you're not French. :neener:

trooper
January 4, 2004, 07:40 AM
Mike -

I certainly didn't mean to accuse all the great folks on THR of being raving kraut-haters :)

But I'm enough of a patriot to stand up for my country when it gets insulted for no reason. Even though my generation is indeed a bunch of PC victims...

I have no personal connection whatsoever to the WW2 events... only the fact that my grandfather fought on the eastern front. He was a signals sergeant in the Luftwaffe but when the defensive lines started to crumble he became a grunt like everyone else...

He got wounded in action and when he heard in the hospital that the eastern front was being overrun completely he decided not to be captured by the Red Army. He and his buddy fled from the hospital, sneaked through hundreds of kilometers of MP-patrolled territory (who were ordered to shoot deserters on the spot), crossed the Elbe and surrendered to British troops. They got released shortly after the war. And that is the reason I didn't have to grow up in communist Eastern Germany...

He was a draftee on the "wrong" side in an unjust war. But as you can imagine I'm glad that he made it home in one piece. Even if that meant for him to use his StGw 44.


Regards,

Trooper

Mike Irwin
January 4, 2004, 10:59 AM
Trooper,

Ah, all you Germans smell like Sauerkraut and Weinerschnitzel...

Damn, now I'm REALLY hungry! :)

trooper
January 4, 2004, 11:06 AM
Well... good for you that you're in the States, then. Over here you'd be much more likely to end up eating in a burger joint... :)


Regards,

Trooper

KRAUTGUNNER
January 4, 2004, 12:21 PM
Y'all are always picking on the frogs.

O.K. granted, they are somewhat pusillanimous, arrogant and chauvinistic but aside from that, they are a merry bunch.

And their Manurhin revolvers are quite decent firearms! :)

dischord
January 4, 2004, 01:08 PM
My dad came ashore on the night of D-Day+1 with the rest of the 103rd AAA. He wouldn't have had a problem with turning the event into a celebration of the reconciliation among the nations of the West during the past 60 years (recent bad feelings over Iraq notwithstanding). When alive, he was quite critical of people who acted as if Germany and Japan should be eternally treated like enemies.

Azrael256
January 5, 2004, 12:06 PM
Grandad went ashore within the first five minutes. He's not too hot about the Germans, and, quite frankly, thinks they can all just go to hell. I can't really fault him for feeling that way, so I don't try to argue the point with him.

Reconciliation is a good thing, and I think the Germans themselves have made great progress toward that end, even without outside pressure. I think that someday WW2 will be a distant historical event, and while important, will not be such an emotionally charged issue. Let's face it, the French aren't still mad about that whole Roman invasion thing... well, they might be, but you get the point.

I do not, however, believe that it is wise to invite the Germans to the 60th anniversary. I sincerely believe that they simply have no place there at this point in time. In another 60 years, the situation may be different, but as for now, they shouldn't be there.

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