Question regarding NC gun laws and mental status.


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Finn1916
February 8, 2011, 10:17 PM
Hi guys, had a question for anyone that might know laws better than myself(which would be anyone that understands legaleze more than someone that scratches their head at it.)

My question is this. The nc gun permit law states anyone that has spent time in a mental facility or been judged insane cannot purchase a firearm in the state of nc. The way it is worded leaves me wondering. I VOLUNTARILY commited myself seven years ago for depression. Since I voluntarily underwent psychiatric evaluation, would this stop me from getting a handgun, or does it only apply to those that have been commited against their will?

Thanks in advance.

Finn

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scrood?
February 8, 2011, 10:24 PM
If they follow the federal standard, voluntary commitments do not apply.
Also, temp commitments for observation do not apply.
Op treatment does not apply (atf says even cho the va tech killer wad not barred by federal law)

Can quote references if you want. Do you have a link to the actual wording? Notnsure if nc is more strict than federal or not.

Most state restrictions are 5 years prior anyways.

Finn1916
February 8, 2011, 10:40 PM
i don't have the link on me but all it says is commitment to a mental facility, and as i understand it, voluntary commitment does not actually fall under commitment. I know plenty of places i could buy a gun illegally but i flat out refuse to make gun owners look bad/have my rights infringed on by buying a gun illegally, so i'm hoping the law won't stop me cause i really really really want a ruger gp100, cause that gun sounds like the right one(after holding/test firing of course.)

Thanks for the response.

edit to add link:

http://www.co.gaston.nc.us/sheriff/PDFs/HandgunPurchasePermitApp.pdf

Here is the application which has the wording exactly as it is written in the law, which is like 30 pages long so i won't bore you with that.

scrood?
February 8, 2011, 10:44 PM
Does NC have a purchase permit or do they do background checks everytime? I am 99% sure your information would not even been reported. Only a handful of people in history have ever been denied due to mental illness.

However, lying on these forms could get you arrested... How long were you comitted for? How do you know it was voluntary?

Finn1916
February 8, 2011, 10:45 PM
I was in the facility for 7 days, and i brought myself in, hence it was voluntary. In nc, we have to get a permit for every handgun we buy (I should have bought one when i lived in florida much cheaper, and no waiting seven days everytime i want to buy a gun)

scrood?
February 8, 2011, 10:45 PM
Also, admitting you were in there will get you denied.

Finn1916
February 8, 2011, 10:55 PM
therein lies my other problem scrood, do i perjer myself, or do i get denied a permit because i was depressed when i was 21 years old and my wife left me? either way i'm "scrood"

scrood?
February 8, 2011, 10:57 PM
A 7 day voluntary commitment DOES NOT bar you from owning firearms. Answer NO the mental institution question.

Stay tuned I'll post som refernces

scrood?
February 8, 2011, 11:02 PM
http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulings/rulemakings/treasury-decisions/td-391.html

Search this for voluntary.

Also, a nice court precident: (will post next post, Ipad acting up)

scrood?
February 8, 2011, 11:06 PM
Not the one I was looking for but a good read:
http://www.jaapl.org/cgi/content/full/37/4/545

There is one were the guy was comitted for 2 weeks and that still did not bar him from owning guns. Stay tuned, will post.

Finn1916
February 8, 2011, 11:06 PM
thanks scrood, you set my wife and my minds at ease so we can purchase and shoot together(gotta love redneck girls.)

scrood?
February 8, 2011, 11:20 PM
btw, if you want to be safe, you can answer yes, provide notes. If they deny you can applea, and younwill be sucessful.

If you answer no, they may try to arrest you but nothing will stick. Show them the atf defninitions, the voluntary and temporary commitments do not apply.

Also keep in mind the state could have different laws, but most except california follow the federal standards.

Now for a CCW permit that is a different story!!

scrood?
February 8, 2011, 11:22 PM
BTW check back her sometime I am gong to post more precidents thatr are good reads.

AND BTW, I told the copswhen I was younger I would make them shoot me, I got put on an ECP (involuntary temp committment AKA suicide watch) for 48 hours. I have my firearms but not sure on the CHP yet. Regardless, mine is a temp commitment for observation, albiet involuntary.

Let me know when you get a gun.

scrood?
February 8, 2011, 11:26 PM
BTW just found your link for the application "Have you ever been adjudicated mentally ill'.

Answer: HECK NO.

Finn1916
February 8, 2011, 11:34 PM
thanks for all the help. i'll just answer no to save time and trouble and if they try and arrest me i'll play dumb and point out the laws where it doesn't count. will also let you know when i get my gun (hopefully the gun show in april) and how it works after putting several hundred rounds through it(a tried and true method if ever i knew one)

The funny thing is i know i can get a rifle or shotgun in nc, and yet still don't understand why, other than easily concealed, it is harder to get handgun permits...... i still miss florida gun laws.

scrood?
February 8, 2011, 11:38 PM
Do you have to have a permit to buy at a gunshow? Usually gunshows you do not need it, aka "gunshow loophole".

Regardless get your purchase permit. I bet they dont even have access to your records. 90% of the disqualifying records in the NICS system are from California, the most anti-gun state in teh WORLD.

Finn1916
February 8, 2011, 11:43 PM
in nc, even to buy froma gun show you need a permit, and they only issue five at a time so if you are a collector and want to buy more than five at a show you are sol

NavyLCDR
February 8, 2011, 11:49 PM
Do you have to have a permit to buy at a gunshow? Usually gunshows you do not need it, aka "gunshow loophole".

SERIOUSLY?!?! There is NO difference in a purchase made at a gunshow and a purchase made outside the gunshow! There are two types of firearms purchases.... those from an FFL (licensed dealer) and those from private parties. Either one may happen at gun shows. There may be private parties selling guns, and there may be FFL dealers selling guns.

In NC a purchase permit is required to purchase a handgun from either a private party or an FFL. The fact that the purchase occurs at a gunshow is irrelevant. Now, there are a couple of states that require a background check to be performed for any gunshow transaction, whether or not the seller is a private party or an FFL dealer.

Finn1916
February 8, 2011, 11:53 PM
Navy, the only states i know of laws in are nc and florida. As far as i know, in florida at a gun show you can get away with not having a background check just like in florida you can sell to a person if you are a private seller without needing a permit from them. (i could be wrong on the gun show part not needing a background check as i don't know the laws in florida as much as nc since i only lived there a few years.)

scrood?
February 8, 2011, 11:55 PM
I guess it depends n the state, but the gunshow loophole is where a NICS check is not needed for sales between private parties (Non FFL Dealers).

I know in my state the permit is required even for private sales.

NavyLCDR
February 9, 2011, 12:11 AM
The problem is "the gunshow loophole" is a term coined and created by the anti-gun groups in an attempt to demonize private sales. There is no "gunshow loophole". What there is, is the freedom of private citizens to sell guns to each other without government intervention.

scrood?
February 9, 2011, 12:16 AM
Ok I wont use that term anymore. However, there are proivate sales that occur at gunshows and it out of scope for this thread, I should not of even asked about it.

NavyLCDR
February 9, 2011, 12:50 AM
It's fine to ask about such things, I just wanted to make you aware of where the term "gunshow loophole" came from.

Just like term "hi capacity magazine" when used to describe any magazine holding over 10 rounds of ammo. For an entire plethora of guns, the standard magazine holds up to 30 rounds of ammo. A hi capacity magazine would be one of greater capacity than what the manufacturer normally sells with that gun, often times in the case of handguns, extending beyond the bottom of the grip. For example, the Taurus PT-92 holds 17 rounds in the standard magazine that the manufacturer sells with the gun, which fits flush with the bottom of the handgrip.

The anti-gun group will never use the term reduced capacity to describe a 10 round magazine for a gun that normally carries more than that.

Finn1916
February 9, 2011, 12:58 AM
Thats because the anti gun crowd don't care about our rights. they have this absurd notion that if we outlaw guns for the regular citizens criminals will suddenly stop shooting people.

Evergreen
February 9, 2011, 06:17 AM
I didn't realize NC makes you have a permit for every gun you own. Do you mean you need a permit for every gun you carry concealed? It sounds like North Carolina is like a police state. This is an even greater inspiration for me to say in the Northwest. We have a lot of liberals, but enough rational minded people still live here that keep us from being the police state that analyzes and dictates our every thought and desire. The RKBA will not be meddled with by local governing powers; when will these autocrats realize they are screwing with our country's laws.

Anyhow, I hardly believe depression can ever be thought of as a mental illness. I mean half the country has been diagnosed as clinically depressed. Maybe more sever mental illnesses like Schizophrenia, but depression? Since when does being under evaluation from a shrink mean you cannot own handguns? If that was the case, I think a lot of people in this country, including many law enforcement officers, will not have the right to possess a handgun. Do you know how many military and law enforcement officers are receiving medicine for depression? It sounds very fishy to me..

Even though I admire North Carolina for its beauty, I fear living there. This was the same state where the governor said she would take away guns from all law-abiding citizens should a hurricane hit. I could only imagine the mayhem her nazi-like decree would have wreaked upon the people in that state. I for one would have took my guns and got the heck out of there.

scrood?
February 9, 2011, 09:30 AM
The mental health stuff rarely came into play until recently due to the va tech stuff and others.

I forsee stricter enforcement but I also see more clarification coming. Once clarified well see it did not even apply to the va tech guy, or anyone except those locked up hard, because they cant function in society, which is what the original intention was.

Finn1916
February 9, 2011, 10:28 AM
Evergreen, you only need one ccw here no matter how many guns you own. incidentally a ccw takes the place of a gun permit in NC. Personally i think it's stupid to have to apply for a permit every time. i understand waiting periods so you aren't buying a gun in the heat of the moment, but once you have that first one, you don't need to buy a second one to commit a crime.

dcdub
February 9, 2011, 11:42 AM
The funny thing is i know i can get a rifle or shotgun in nc, and yet still don't understand why, other than easily concealed, it is harder to get handgun permits...... i still miss florida gun laws.
I could be mistaken, but I believe when you go to your sheriff's office to apply for a permit, they just perform the NICS and maybe a county background check, the same one that you get get by going to the courthouse and paying $10. Again, I could be wrong about this, but I think this is the case because I have friends who have gotten their permits from the sheriff's office in 10 minutes. Whatever type of background check they do, its not very extensive. I think you'll be ok

sansone
February 9, 2011, 11:51 AM
handguns require prior permit from local LE in NC.. for the OP: my buddy in NC walked into a clinic after divorce, he got quite depressed and decided he needed help. About a year later he decided to buy a new gun and nothing came up on the background check

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