THR Lemat club


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Hatchett
February 10, 2011, 07:06 PM
http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/3282/lemat.jpg

It's big and ugly. The shotgun doesn't always fire. The lever cranks the wrong way and chews at the side of the barrel. It takes a thumb as strong as most arms to cock and even the trigger tries to eat a piece of your finger if you're not careful. We love them anyway. Our membership may not be quite as numerous as most. That just means we're exclusive.

If you enjoyed reading about "THR Lemat club" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
BHP FAN
February 10, 2011, 08:59 PM
Damn right you're exclusive...you're alone!I may haveta sell a coupla Colt clones and join you!

DammitBoy
February 10, 2011, 09:01 PM
I really want one, just not right now - too much on the plate...

Hatchett
February 10, 2011, 10:43 PM
Whaaat. Someone else must have one.

Shoot The Moon
February 12, 2011, 02:19 PM
Hatchett, great idea for a club - sadly I can't join - these are legal here in the UK (amazingly) but I have been put off by the many stories about their lack of reliability. I'm very interested in your practical experience of shooting the LeMat?

Hatchett
February 13, 2011, 03:03 AM
Well, as my first post implied, it's definitely an acquired taste or if you're lucky its at least not an acquired distaste. Nothing about it is convenient, from cocking to loading to cleaning. The nine shots do work great and shoot very straight. I've also never experienced any of the problems with the shotgun barrel yet but it's very new so we'll see once the springs start to break in if it will continue to ignite the caps with such a short throw (and it really ought to, considering how hard it is to cock -- really awkward with one hand). It really comes down to whether the novelty and the cool factor are worth the price (I got a deal on mine, so I'm not disappointed), because on almost every other level its inferior to a basic Colt or Remington pattern mechanism.

madcratebuilder
February 13, 2011, 06:39 AM
The loading lever is far from robust! I use a loading stand most the time.
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d37/madcratebuilder/PICT0011Small-1.jpg

If you carefully sand the face of the caps you use on the center barrel you well have better reliability with ignition.
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d37/madcratebuilder/lemat01.jpg

The LeMat is different to say the least, I have become very attached to mine. With nine rounds of .451 RB and a .625 RB or shot from the center barrel you well not find more firepower in a single cap and ball revolver.
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d37/madcratebuilder/lemat01-1.jpg

mykeal
February 13, 2011, 07:23 AM
That's a fine looking revolver, mcb. I've not seen a LeMat that looked as well cared for before.

madcratebuilder
February 14, 2011, 01:50 PM
That's a fine looking revolver, mcb. I've not seen a LeMat that looked as well cared for before.
Thank you sir. It's starting to show some wear in the chambers and some blue wear on the screw slots. It has about 100 rds now.

snidervolley
February 25, 2011, 09:11 AM
madcratebuilder & hatchet
i to am also a lemat fan and owner .
i have two albeit both are in my work shop being converted to carbines .
i t is just the neatest piece (yes it does take tlc ) but given that holding the revolver in your hand is just plane impressive
are you a crate builder? as i would be interested in buying some for homes for the twins
kymm

earlthegoat2
February 25, 2011, 10:55 AM
I dont visit the BP section too often but when I see a thread with LeMat in the title I will definitely be taking a little look. These are very cool I think and humongous. Probably the only cap n' ball revolver I would ever consider but there a bunch of cartridge firearms that are behind this on the "To Buy Oneday List".

Who makes reproducitons out of curiosity?

Engineer Bill
February 26, 2011, 07:13 PM
Hello The LeMat Club!
Picture is my LeMat. I made a lighter hammer spring and have shot it in SASS matches, slow, but the style points were immense.
A removable loading lever was made which fits on a headless pin, which replaced the original loading lever retaining screw,visiable in picture.
Regards,
Engineer Bill

arcticap
February 27, 2011, 04:26 AM
Who makes reproducitons out of curiosity?

Pietta makes reproductions of the LeMat.
Dixie Gun Works sells three LeMat versions:

Army:

http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_92_187_189&products_id=3496&osCsid=815ca415bef18e3b9f94490c7f2f55b7

Navy:

http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_92_187_189&products_id=3498&osCsid=815ca415bef18e3b9f94490c7f2f55b7

Cavalry:

http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_92_187_189&products_id=3497&osCsid=815ca415bef18e3b9f94490c7f2f55b7

madcratebuilder
February 27, 2011, 06:49 AM
A removable loading lever was made which fits on a headless pin, which replaced the original loading lever retaining screw,visiable in picture.

Excellent idea!

cheatin charlie
February 27, 2011, 07:27 AM
Hello The LeMat Club!
Picture is my LeMat. I made a lighter hammer spring and have shot it in SASS matches, slow, but the style points were immense.
A removable loading lever was made which fits on a headless pin, which replaced the original loading lever retaining screw,visiable in picture.
Regards,
Engineer Bill
Could you post picture of your new loading lever?
Thanks Charlie

Cap n Ball
February 27, 2011, 09:22 AM
Got one but I don't shoot it very often.

snidervolley
February 28, 2011, 10:05 AM
http://http://britishmilitariaforums.yuku.com/topic/8837/lemat

snidervolley
February 28, 2011, 10:08 AM
C:\Documents and Settings\kkw7394\Favorites\102_1582.JPGhttp://C:\Documents and Settings\kkw7394\Favorites\102_1582.JPG

Ole Humpback
February 28, 2011, 01:31 PM
I'm assuming that these are all Pietta reproduction LeMat. If not, Congrats to you who have original LeMats, they are near priceless. If they are reproductions, why are they so unreliable. I understand the need to keep them authentic, but sometimes a newer and better thing is warranted on a reproduction like this.

Maybe theres a market for modern level of reliability LeMats.

tripe1917
February 28, 2011, 01:47 PM
I haven't shot mine yet because of my lack of knowledge on loading the shotgun tube. Any pointers? Also, I understand the shotgun barrel should be capable of being removed for cleaning, but mine doesn't want to budge. If I am looking down the barrel, which way should the shotgun barrel be twisted to unscrew?

Engineer Bill
March 1, 2011, 12:52 AM
LeMat Club,
A number of folks have questioned the reliability of lock up of the LeMat action, I'm wondering how many are aware of the action adjusting screw. It is located on the right side of the pistol, just behind the hammer screw, and controls the timing of the drop of the cylinder lock up pin as the hammer is cocked. The is a factory adjustment, not to be adjusted lightly, to be considered maybe after cleaning, deburring & oiling.
Regards,
Engineer Bill

Engineer Bill
March 1, 2011, 01:32 AM
The LeMat Club
Photos show new loading lever in place, and removed.
I took just the original loading lever bolt to the Industrial supply store and they were able to match the thread. I hacksawed off some of the threaded end so that no threads showed when screwed in, cut the rest to length, put a screwdriver slot in the top, and fire blued it with a propane tourch. I made a model out of wood to arrive at a simple shape that would work for the lever. A pice was cut from 1/2" aluninum plate and worked with drills & files. The aluminum can be blackened with a permenant black felt tip pen ( leave it shinney, easier to find when dropped ).
My second favorite mod is to replace that ineffective loading lever catch. The one in the photo is made from 3/4" bandsaw blade that was anealed, shaped, retempered, and fire blued. It's in photo.

Regards,
Engineer Bill

PS How about a postal shoot? Entrants share load & data for sake of the Club?

madcratebuilder
March 1, 2011, 08:45 AM
I'm assuming that these are all Pietta reproduction LeMat. If not, Congrats to you who have original LeMats, they are near priceless. If they are reproductions, why are they so unreliable. I understand the need to keep them authentic, but sometimes a newer and better thing is warranted on a reproduction like this.

Maybe theres a market for modern level of reliability LeMats.
I wouldn't say the Pietta LeMat is unreliable, it suffers some of the same issues of the original. The loading lever can become unlatched and jam the cylinder, just like the old ones. The ram rod for loading the center barrel comes out on recoil and is lost. Very few originals have the ram rod.

Getting the center barrel cap to ignite can be challenging with modern caps.


Engineer Bill, that lever is very nice, great mechanical advantage. I may infringe your copy right.

Vermonter
March 1, 2011, 02:38 PM
How much powder can they hold? What's the difference between the different models?

arcticap
March 2, 2011, 11:04 AM
The differences between models are mentioned beginning in post #17:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=461019&highlight=lemat

Plus more by Rachen in post #8:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=272012


Here's a little guide:
Spur trigger guard, spur hammer switch, lever barrel release: CAVALRY
Round trigger guard, lever hammer switch, knob barrel release: NAVY
Round trigger guard, spur hammer switch, knob barrel release: ARMY

I load the grapeshot barrel of my Navy model with 55-60 grains of Pyrodex RS or Goex 2F and a charge of about 1-1.5 ounces of OO Buckshot.

More detailed loading info. including velocity figures:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=465836&highlight=lemat

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=506259&highlight=lemat

DammitBoy
March 2, 2011, 11:57 AM
Spur trigger guard, spur hammer switch, lever barrel release: CAVALRY
Round trigger guard, lever hammer switch, knob barrel release: NAVY
Round trigger guard, spur hammer switch, knob barrel release: ARMY

Is there any advantage to any one of those combinations over the others?

arcticap
March 2, 2011, 01:25 PM
At least 2 posters recommended the Navy Model, IIRC it was the latest model.
From Rachen's post #8:

PS, FLORIDABOY, if you are thinking of getting a LeMat, get the Navy model. It is more rugged due to the knob barrel release, different from the lever that would not flip down when the weapon fires. Go to the Dixie Gun Works website, find the LeMat Navy, and read the comments about it. My comments (name: Raymond Chen), Mec's and others are all on it. Just be sure though, nobody gave the weapon a rating lower than a 4-star. Many people are impressed.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=272012

From Das Jaeger's Post #17:

Jaeger Post #17 Das Jaeger , and don't get me wrong I would buy the Cavalry model in one second too , just prefer the Navy is all .

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=461019&highlight=lemat

Hatchett
March 2, 2011, 11:54 PM
Anyone thinking of buying the Cavalry version should keep an eye on the one you can buy from the Cabelas site. Its price fluctuates quite a lot, almost monthly. Sometimes it's 900, right now its 800. When I got mine it was on sale for 700 and a rebate I had brought it down considerably more and with free shipping. It may go even cheaper -- so just make sure to watch and wait a while if you get the bug to join the club.

Engineer Bill
March 4, 2011, 02:33 AM
Was out shooting with some six shooter friends, and took some time showin them the loading of all 9 shots. My turn to shoot, and they all started counting out loud after the 6th shot. They said they was impressed. I said "Check this out", and fired the shotgun barrel, which took out the center of the targe entire. (I had loaded it with shot before they came along). I have trouble getting the shotgun to fire, also. I gently place the hammer on the cap and then thump the hammer with a bit of broom handle when I want it to go off.

Engineer Bill

madcratebuilder
March 9, 2011, 08:06 AM
I have trouble getting the shotgun to fire, also. I gently place the hammer on the cap and then thump the hammer with a bit of broom handle when I want it to go off.


If you carefully sand the face of some caps to thin the material they well ignite easier on the center barrel. I use a small dowel and a belt sander. Go slow so you don't build up heat.

snidervolley
March 10, 2011, 11:05 AM
i was thinking that you could make more of point to the shot gun flip hammer by dremeling of a bit ??

elnielsen
March 18, 2011, 02:23 AM
:what::evil::eek:

Engineer Bill
March 22, 2011, 12:40 PM
I was at a match where I saw a Le Mat converted to fire .38 special cartdriges. Wondering who did the work and if the shotgun was converted also?

Engineer Bill

col.lemat
April 3, 2011, 02:19 PM
any lemat owners in so.cal? I have alot of knowledge on these pistols and how to make the reproductions function reliably.

Fingers McGee
April 3, 2011, 05:10 PM
Here's a model to own.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c86/fingersmcgee/lematrifleright17.jpg

Wish I did.

Used to have a Cavalry model; but, someone wanted it more than I did & made me an offer I couldn't refuse. Used the proceeds to buy a couple 2nd Gens.

DammitBoy
April 3, 2011, 09:18 PM
Is that revolving carbine lemat a replica available for sale?

Fingers McGee
April 4, 2011, 12:05 PM
Is that revolving carbine lemat a replica available for sale?


I wish. But; sadly it's a picture of an original. No one makes repros of them

col.lemat
April 24, 2011, 07:32 PM
I have put nearly 1,000 rounds down range with mine. Blueing looks like crapp but still no broken parts, and I load the shotgun real heavy!

snidervolley
April 25, 2011, 08:11 AM
i am building two replicas and alas they will be the only ones on the planet under fifty thousand dollars and shootable

snidervolley
April 25, 2011, 08:12 AM
thats awesome ! not as fragile as everyone would have you believe aye

col.lemat
April 25, 2011, 01:25 PM
40 gr. 2fg +18 .27 cal. buck shot or a buck & ball load @.58 round ball + 9 of the buck. Pushing 1.5 oz. of lead. Have gone higher than 60 gr. with bb shot. Using dixie mold to get conicials over 20gr. powder. tried 25gr. but very little room to seat the bullet. Would have the room with R.B. #11 Remington caps no misfires. Tried CCI and had misfires. Also tried bogus powders (pyrodex) don't care for it. I'll stick to the real stuff.

mholstein13
July 29, 2011, 04:32 PM
any way to get the takedown lever on the cavalry model to stop flipping open? kinda new at this

Red October
July 30, 2011, 08:59 AM
Count me in!
Big, heavy, takes two hands to operate, and I love it.
DGW repro. Haven't had any issues so far with ramrod movement during firing.

col.lemat
July 30, 2011, 02:17 PM
I would like to welcome the new members. I hope to post some photos of my LeMats when the wife gets back mid Augest.

Dnaltrop
July 30, 2011, 02:58 PM
From what I understand, the Shotgun reliability problem used to be overcome by hitting the cap with a hammer-strike before the final loading of the shot barrel. It's been a "feature" of this weapon since day one.

Don't have a BP gun yet, but that LeMat has had my attention since my days shopping for my first Cowboy action revolver purchase (the Schofield) I've been told that the Colt Walker is a better beginners BP gun, but there's just SOMETHING about this awkward, finicky tank of a gun that gives me that itch.

col.lemat
July 30, 2011, 03:24 PM
Not true. A simple fix. Do it right first time and be done with it. Most of the pistols leaveing the factory now days have it that I have seen, But if you remove the nipples and do not pay attention to details in reassembling it will result in miss fires. It's in the nipples & brand of caps

snidervolley
August 1, 2011, 10:03 AM
my lemat carbine project in the early days with prototype modeling stock rough fitted and prior to that my daughter holding roughed in barreled conversions

DammitBoy
August 1, 2011, 11:12 PM
That is completely awesome snider!

snidervolley
August 2, 2011, 04:48 PM
thanks it been a long road with a lot of work but well worth it

Tattooed Bard
August 2, 2011, 10:16 PM
I owned an original in the late 80s. bought it at a yard sale in west va for 50 bucks. Unfortunately, it and alot of others I wished I still had got caught in a very ugly divorce in 95. Seeing these and having recently got into blackpowder shooting with my 10 year old makes me still want to cry. Yeah, I made out when I sold it but damn I miss the old girl.

Good to know there are more repros out there besides the Navy Arms

bprevolver
August 7, 2011, 04:15 PM
Did you know that Pietta made the LeMat with with both a plain cylinder (early models) and an engraved cylinder? Did you also know that they were available with case hardened frames? There were also some fully engraved models and models in the white engraved but not readily available in the U.S. Little tid bits for the collector.

col.lemat
August 7, 2011, 04:49 PM
147025

Some of my confederate pistols.

snidervolley
August 28, 2011, 12:45 PM
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=248762696

snidervolley
August 28, 2011, 03:39 PM
heres a shot

snidervolley
August 30, 2011, 02:22 PM
other side of first carbine made to match patent dwg from 1861

jolasa
September 25, 2011, 01:22 PM
Purchased Pietta LeMat from Cabelas. I was aware of the shotgun cap misfire situation, but I see another problem.

I put a cap on the shotgun nipple, lower the swivelling hammer down, cock the hammer, pull the trigger. The hammer hits the shotgun cap, the cap does not fire, but then the hammer swivels up and returns to the "up" and then continues on to hit a nipple on the cylinder. So I sent this back to Cabelas and ordered a replacement.

The replacement does the SAME thing, shotgun cap misfires, hammer rotates up and hits the cylinder nipples.

Can I fix this? Or do I need to go to a gunsmith? Or should I just send it back again and give up on LeMats?

Any gunsmiths reading this?

Jon

col.lemat
September 25, 2011, 02:19 PM
The Cavalry model is the most accerate of the reproductions as far as following the original design. The barrel locking lever is the biggest complaint. It was not made correctly and springs open when it should spring closed. The shotgun barrel nipple usually needs a slight modification for reliable ignition + I only use Remmington caps as I had misfires with CCI brand of caps. As far as cap size, I have found differnt sized nipples on the differnt model guns. Some are 11's while other are 10's = Use what fits the best

jolasa
November 1, 2011, 08:35 PM
Finally got to the range after Col LeMat made some excellent repairs so that the shotgun caps would fire, barrel could be removed easily, machined the barrel securing latch to work better, etc. (contact Col LeMat via this Forum - click on col. lemat in message above and send him an email or private message).

Firing cylinder rounds, no problems also. Used 20 grains of Swiss FFFg (with 25 grains, I could not get enough leverage on the loading handle to push the ball below the level of the top of the cylinder, so guess I will just use 20 grains under the 0.451” balls). I am using a lubricated wad about 1/8” thick which may be the problem with 25 grains in the cylinders to raise the ball too high (not deep enough in the cylinder holes).

And I got some ¼” cork, and cut some wads with a 5/8” cutter for the shotgun. Shotgun, as recommended by Col LeMat, 40 grains FFFg, then add a 1/4" cork wad, then add 1.5 oz. # 4 buckshot (about 33 of the 0.24" balls), then add a final 1/4" cork wad. Used remington # 11 blackpowder caps.

The pistol now works fine overall: fired shotgun 5 times, fired the first time every time; fired 4 full cylinders of 0.451" balls.

One minor problem, the loading handle still pops up when firing the shotgun with 40 grains of Swiss FFFg and 1.5 oz of # 4 buckshot, so guess I will use a loop of rawhide to tie it down each time like they used to do.

FUN STUFF!

Indy4570
November 13, 2011, 10:07 PM
I wish I could afford to join this club! been a fan of the Le Mat for many years.

col.lemat
November 13, 2011, 10:20 PM
Cabelas raised their prices some months ago to about $850 on sale?
Dixie Gunworks is now the cheepest priced at $825.
I noticed Dixie lowered their prices some more last week for their Christmas sale.
Also I think there is one on Gunbroker with no reserve at $600

Indy4570
November 13, 2011, 10:30 PM
I just dropped about $550 for A NIB Uberti Walker with a spare cylinder and a shorty 1858 remmy from Cabelas. I buy anything else right now and I will be sleepin outside with the horse and the mule!

JDBoardman
May 1, 2012, 12:34 PM
Count me in as a new member. I just acquired a "Navy" LeMat. In my case, the purchase of this fine revolver was not only inevitable, but virtually required. I am a direct lineal descendant of Gen'l P.G.T. Beauregard, inherited the sword he was given at Graduation from West Point in 1838, which I carried as a Company Grade officer in the 1960's, so it became essential that I complement my cutlery with this firearm which he did much to promote.

col.lemat
May 1, 2012, 05:35 PM
I still have a few spare cylinders left if any one is interested. 2 used in the blue engraved, 1 in the white no engraving that can be blued. $150. ea + postage.
Have several spare rammers complete, Pietta manufractured, plus some other small parts.
Should have heavy duty rammers by months end, manufractured to Lemat's origional specs for those of you who have bent their Pietta ones like i did.

runs.for.beer
May 3, 2012, 09:32 PM
I was lucky enough to pick up one of the Col. Cylinder's and I am quite glad I did. It is quite nice to load two at a time on a loading stand.

I am looking forward to getting one o the heavy duty loading levers when they become available.

JDBoardman
May 19, 2012, 09:34 AM
Went to the range for the first time yesterday after work - what a hoot. Recoil with the revolver cylinders was no big deal (25 gr. fffg, .454 ball) but the shotgun barrel - well that's another kettle of fish (45 gr fffg, 9 .32 balls). My question now is how do I get the shotty barrel loose for cleaning. I know it is threaded but mine won't come loose. All 10 nipples came out with no problem, but that dang big tube just won't come loose. Should I use a strap wrench maybe, or just leave well enough alone.

This sucker is surprisingly accurate as a revolver - easy 4" groups "duelist style" at 17 yards, and the shotgun is certainly intimidating, if not very long range. Besides, you can always run away ('strategically advance in a retrograde direction') behind the smokescreen.

lionrobe77
June 6, 2013, 04:26 PM
Hi all, as french owner of a Lemat, let me show you original photos I made of the graveyard of Dr Lemat, buried near Eiffel tower (?) cemetary of Passy :

http://www.zimagez.com/miniature/lemat0.jpg (http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/lemat0.php)-http://www.zimagez.com/miniature/dsc048637.jpg (http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/dsc048637.php)

and some pics extracted from french comics :

http://www.zimagez.com/miniature/pustule-krystal-020.jpg (http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/pustule-krystal-020.php)-http://www.zimagez.com/miniature/bouncert04lavengeancedumanchot24.jpg (http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/bouncert04lavengeancedumanchot24.php)-http://www.zimagez.com/miniature/35380.jpg (http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/35380.php)
http://i24.servimg.com/u/f24/11/74/35/51/th/bois-c10.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=423&u=11743551)

http://i24.servimg.com/u/f24/11/74/35/51/th/bois-c11.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=424&u=11743551)
http://www.zimagez.com/miniature/lemat.jpg (http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/lemat.php)-http://www.zimagez.com/miniature/img39129.jpg (http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/img39129.php)

BTW do you know Alain Serpette and his books about Lemat ?

elhombreconnonombre
June 6, 2013, 05:13 PM
Howdy from Bandera, Texas. I havn't seen a post here fir some time. I just scored a brand new 20 year old Pietta Le Mat at a local gun show for barely $200 U.S. Do these things really go for like $1,000 Euros over in Europe.

PRD1
June 6, 2013, 05:35 PM
a friend bought a LeMat repro from Cabellas a while back. It looked good and we shot it with fair results.
Recently, I borrowed it as a companion piece for a 'movie LeMat' (a crudely-made simulation probably from Mexico, which would fire blank charges, but did not have the mechanism to automatically rotate the cylinder, etc.) which I wanted to show-and-tell at a meeting of the Historical Arms Society of Tucson.
I discovered that the manufacturer of the Cabellas repro had overlooked a minor detail in producing the gun: the .44 barrel was unrifled. It was smooth reamed, but had never had any rifling in the bore.
Cabellas refused to make it good, and there appears to be no interest in doing so by the manufacturer.
If you buy one from Cabellas, check it closely.

PRD1 - mhb - Mike

FiveStrings
June 6, 2013, 09:18 PM
Lionrobe thank you for an excellent post. I really enjoyed the comics.

WardenWolf
June 6, 2013, 10:14 PM
a friend bought a LeMat repro from Cabellas a while back. It looked good and we shot it with fair results.
Recently, I borrowed it as a companion piece for a 'movie LeMat' (a crudely-made simulation probably from Mexico, which would fire blank charges, but did not have the mechanism to automatically rotate the cylinder, etc.) which I wanted to show-and-tell at a meeting of the Historical Arms Society of Tucson.
I discovered that the manufacturer of the Cabellas repro had overlooked a minor detail in producing the gun: the .44 barrel was unrifled. It was smooth reamed, but had never had any rifling in the bore.
Cabellas refused to make it good, and there appears to be no interest in doing so by the manufacturer.
If you buy one from Cabellas, check it closely.

PRD1 - mhb - Mike
A smoothbore pistol is an NFA item, and I don't think black powder is exempted. You may have a problem.

col.lemat
June 6, 2013, 10:51 PM
The LeMat is exempt. It already has a smooth bore shotgun barrel. Besides who is to say the rifling is not just shot out.

PRD1
June 6, 2013, 11:22 PM
I am saying there was never any rifling in the pistol barrel - the piece was bought new from Cabellas, and is still in essentially new condition, having been fired fewer than 30 rounds altogether.
I am, myself, a barrel maker, and have the means to inspect, measure and otherwise evaluate barrels, as well as the experience in doing so.
I know well what worn and damaged barrels look like, and this wasn't one.
I have no idea how many rounds it would take to wear a rifled barrel smooth with BP and pure lead, but doubt it could be accomplished in a lifetime of shooting, if ever, or that the piece would endure the mechanical wear and tear to permit such a number of rounds to be fired.

WardenWolf
June 6, 2013, 11:35 PM
The LeMat is exempt. It already has a smooth bore shotgun barrel. Besides who is to say the rifling is not just shot out.
It's exempt for the shotgun barrel. Not the revolver barrels.

All I can say is, you have a problem. I would strongly recommend you be rid of the piece.

elhombreconnonombre
June 7, 2013, 12:05 AM
Well my LM has rifling, came from DGW 20 years ago.

On the related topic of smoothbore pistols etc, Cabelas and many others online sell the smoothbore Pedersoli sxs 20 gauge Howdah 11 inch long barrel pistol and detachable stock and the Pedersoli 12" barrel 20 gauge sxs baker Cavalry shotgun. I know for a fact you can walk into Cabelas or order from DGW, etc. and buy either of these with no FFL paperwork. If you're an old guy like me they won't even ask for your DL. From what I understand these short barrelled percussion c&b muzzle loaders are not a regulated item, not SBOs. nor even a firearm, under NFA , the GCA, or Texas state law. Likewise the Pietta Buffalo Revolver with the detachable stock is not considered a SBR. Your milege may vary considerably in other states/local jurisdictions.

WardenWolf
June 7, 2013, 12:29 AM
The difference is that these are accurate replicas of old firearms. An unrifled Lemat, on the other hand, is not an accurate replica and thus would not receive the same exemptions. In that case, it is making a change to the weapon's design that would make it an NFA weapon, specifically an AOW. Fortunately, the solution is just a $5 tax stamp. But having it in the mean time is just trouble.

elhombreconnonombre
June 7, 2013, 12:48 AM
IMHO the Pedersoli Howdah is more in the fantasy category as opposed to a true replica of a real item. Most true Howdahs used in India and Africa were cut down from Nitro Express double rifles. The Howdah looks like the double barrel Frontier Davy Crockett toy pistol that Hubley made in the 50s, based on early sxs 1800s flintlocks. That was my fav until Mattel came out with the Fanner 50 line.

PRD1
June 7, 2013, 01:31 AM
that non-cartridge firing arms are not covered by the provisions of GCA 34.

There are many smoothbore ML pistols currently available, some of which are not accurate copies of any particular original arm.

I'm also pretty sure that, were the provisions of GCA 34 applicable to percussion or flintlock arms, the current crop of short-barreled ML shotguns would not be available.

PRD1 - mhb - Mike

lionrobe77
June 7, 2013, 02:22 AM
Interesting books I have.


http://www.zimagez.com/miniature/091109lematrevolver.jpg (http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/091109lematrevolver.php)

http://www.zimagez.com/miniature/00137ad97dc448e25de20b3e5e104743426.jpg (http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/00137ad97dc448e25de20b3e5e104743426.php)- http://www.zimagez.com/miniature/002cd3bec22cb32b265dfe132897b8c4d32.jpg (http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/002cd3bec22cb32b265dfe132897b8c4d32.php)- http://www.zimagez.com/miniature/003de8c9f1f0a3d3331e6d22d61104c56d1.jpg (http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/003de8c9f1f0a3d3331e6d22d61104c56d1.php)

My own LeMat (replica) mildly customized
http://www.zimagez.com/miniature/dsc042059.jpg (http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/dsc042059.php)- http://www.zimagez.com/miniature/dsc0420711.jpg (http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/dsc0420711.php)- http://www.zimagez.com/miniature/dsc0420814.jpg (http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/dsc0420814.php)

http://www.zimagez.com/miniature/dsc0420912.jpg (http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/dsc0420912.php)- http://www.zimagez.com/miniature/dsc0421012.jpg (http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/dsc0421012.php)


A french friend made recently 2 good posts with a lot of photos of his original guns and others, but in our mother's tongue
I could use babelfish for translation, you can too, but the result would be pitiful, as you know.
My question : am I allowed to repost a text in french language ? Of course, I can try to translate some parts if any question....
???

elhombreconnonombre
June 7, 2013, 02:27 AM
I love this site. One day you're looking into a stale year old thread
Somebody from France posts a comic strip featuring the item your interested in
and pics of the burial site of the inventor of the item and winds up in a discussion
in a discussion of U.S. legal issues.
You gotta love this site...really. You can learn so much stuff.
How about the late 50s Western series The Ringo Kid, who carried
I think 2 Le Mats. I.looked all over for the pics of the
shooters used during the production. They were likely studio props since even in 1959 real
Le Mats were near priceless collectables and wouldnt be used.

elhombreconnonombre
June 7, 2013, 02:39 AM
What a stunning case and original Le Mat. I have started making some
French velvet lined fitted revolver cases from wooden flatware cabinets off ebay. See what I meant from my previous post?...down the rabbit hole we go.

elhombreconnonombre
June 7, 2013, 03:17 AM
I found a production still of the Ringo Kid with his "Le
Mat". I'll try to post it. DANG cant post pic from my
phone and my laptop os dead. Just search The Ringo
Kid tv on imdb and there is a photo with him drawing. I think its a prop,
made from a six shooter, but it does have a bunch
of cylinder bore holes and closely resembles a
real Le Mat. The running gag on the show was that the
bad guys would always assume he had run out of rounds after
after 6 shots, but he had 3 left in the cylinder and another
in the smoothbore. The bad guys would simply throw up their
arms and give up. FUN STUFF

elhombreconnonombre
June 7, 2013, 04:03 AM
The still of the Ringo's Le Mat appears to have at least 6 boreholes on half of the
cylinder face, which makes since if it was mocked up from a 6 shooter. There is entire
episode on youtube called The Posse. The stock show intro shows Ringo
firing 6 shots then firing the shotgun barrel, so the gag was that
it was a 7 shooter. One scene shows Ringo cleaning and loading
the shooter. He asks his deputy for a 410 shell. The
shooter is a breaktop revolver with six brass cartridges and a
central 410 shotgun barrel made up by the studio
armorer probably. Even so, its pretty cool.

snidervolley
June 7, 2013, 09:10 AM
the Johny Ringo tv lemat is an original percussion lemat converted to cartridge with a top break (albeit flimsy ) break open DOA!.
p..s. love the cartoons comics details they even got the rammer pooping up on firing awesome, thanks

snidervolley
June 7, 2013, 09:20 AM
i am finishing up on my lemat and cant wait to take it out and actually see what it can do(havin some probs with timing.?)

snidervolley
June 7, 2013, 09:30 AM
http://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg578/snidervolley/IMG_3420_zps6befafa6.jpg (http://s1244.photobucket.com/user/snidervolley/media/IMG_3420_zps6befafa6.jpg.html)
back sight in work and stock sling ring ,and getting the chamber timing back on track(not fun) ?

elhombreconnonombre
June 7, 2013, 09:59 AM
Very nice work on the carbine. I'm thinking about adapting a Pedersoli Howdah pistol detachable stock to my LM. The geometry and lines are a close match to the LM grip. That would fit into my collection of detachable stock revolvers well: 1851 Colt, 1848 Dragoon, and 1858 Remmie Buffalo "Fantasty".

Also I found a site that describes in detailed pics the Johnny Ringo LM, acquired by the show's producer Dick Powell from Harrahs back in the 50s and I guess converted back then?????

Also, one of the show's directors was Paul Henreid, who played Victor Lazlo, in Casablanca, a French actor I believe.

elhombreconnonombre
June 7, 2013, 11:09 AM
Pic of my detachable stock idea.

elhombreconnonombre
June 7, 2013, 12:41 PM
Quick cross draw shoulder rig made from over chest belt threaded through two slits in a long sleeve shirt and a Triple K Walker Colt leather holster, worn over a t shirt w/ the shirt buttoned up. No visible means of support...kind of like my last girlfriend.

lionrobe77
June 8, 2013, 01:50 AM
Not sure if Howdah shoulderstock fits or not for LeMat (any other idea ?), but at least for a schofield (replica) after some work

http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/6858/dsc05255n.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/26/dsc05255n.jpg/)


http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/5241/dsc06482t.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/36/dsc06482t.jpg/)



http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/7305/dsc06481a.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/41/dsc06481a.jpg/)



http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/8130/dsc06478f.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/831/dsc06478f.jpg/)

mykeal
June 8, 2013, 07:25 AM
What's the LOP on those?

elhombreconnonombre
June 8, 2013, 08:57 PM
That's what I'm talking about. Nice looking shooter. stock, and box. I went to my local Cabelas and took a lot of measurements of the Howdah grip and a took pics of the grip shape. The grip cross section and curve of the Howdah grip matches the Le Mat nearly perfectly. Dittto on mykeal's request for the LOP. I might have to get a shooter like yours AND a Howdah to justifiy buying a stock that fits 3 shooters.;)

lionrobe77
June 9, 2013, 12:51 AM
To be honest, and it would probably be the same for the LeMat, the shooting with the shoulderstock is a pain in the ass, in the sense that you receive the blast of ashes (sorry, can't find appropriate words) directly in the face.
Cant' explain why, but I have'nt at all this problem with my Walker....?

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=341028&page=141

elhombreconnonombre
June 9, 2013, 09:37 AM
hMMM...I don't have that problem with either my 1858 Remmie Buffalo .44 or 1851 Navy .36 repros using an Italian repro Colt-style stock and Pyrodex bp substitute. I haven't heard of anybody complaining about the Pedersoli stock with the Howdah, except that the stock was too low for proper line of sight in some of the earlier production runs of the stocks, which has now been fixed. My Cabelas didn't have a Howdah stock to measure to compare length and line of sight.

What's the length of the stock from the back edge of your Schofield's grip to the end of the butt. Maybe it's just really short and puts you too close to all of the "action". Perhaps I will not pay the $200 for the Howdah stock and just hit ebay for a nice rifle stock and cut it down to fit with a proper line of sight and put my face further back.
I have been thinking about the Le Mat stock since I got this shooter. I initially came up with a design consisting of metal strap drilled and tapped with two holes that would attach to the backstrap of the grip via tapped holes near each end of the bracket. The metal strap would be attached to the stock first via holes and long wood screws drilled through the bracket. I only thought of the Howdah stock because of its period look and that I wouldn't necessarily have to drill and tap the grip of the Le Mat.

elhombreconnonombre
June 9, 2013, 09:42 AM
hMMM...I don't have that problem with either my 1858 Remmie Buffalo .44 or 1851 Navy .36 repros using an Italian repro Colt-style stock and Pyrodex bp substitute. I haven't heard of anybody complaining about the Pedersoli stock with the Howdah, except that the stock was too low for proper line of sight in some of the earlier production runs of the stocks, which has now been fixed. My Cabelas didn't have a Howdah stock to measure to compare length and line of sight.

What's the length of the stock from the back edge of your Schofield's grip to the end of the butt. Maybe it's just really short and puts you too close to all of the "action". Perhaps I will not pay the $200 for the Howdah stock and just hit ebay for a nice rifle stock and cut it down to fit with a proper line of sight and put my face further back.
I have been thinking about the Le Mat stock since I got this shooter. I initially came up with a design consisting of metal strap drilled and tapped with two holes that would attach to the backstrap of the grip via tapped holes near each end of the bracket. The metal strap would be attached to the stock first via holes and long wood screws drilled through the bracket. I only thought of the Howdah stock because of its period look and that I wouldn't necessarily have to drill and tap the grip of the Le Mat.

elhombreconnonombre
June 9, 2013, 10:32 AM
I caught your post and pics in the Walker Club you mentioned here. I was considering mounting a modded Italian detachable shoulder that perfectly fits both my Pietta 1851 Colt Navy and 1858 Remmie Buffalo stock right out of the box to a Walker or 1st Series Dragoon for versatility. Some of the old hands here say can't be done without some major work: including frame is way too wide for the stock mounting hardware, stock has to fit on a drilled 4th frame screw like on the 3rd Dragoon, the recoil shield would have to be cut both sides of the frame, the grip is too long for the hook to work, etc. Yesterday I went and measured a Colt 2nd generation 1st Model Dragoon I was considering purchasing using a machinist caliper.
The stock brass mounting hardware is definitely not wide enough for the Dragoon frame and grip, but not by much. There is still enough meat in the brass mounting hardware to allow removal of some material to fit around the frame still allow engagement of a longer hammer screw. I would have to measure carefully but if done properly I think I could still use the stock for my other shooters.
Your pics on your Walker appear follow the same idea I had with your Walker grip notched for the Italian repro stock hook. Anything else I should know about this mod?

lionrobe77
June 9, 2013, 01:15 PM
With my terrible english, and my 2 left hands, it's a bit difficult to say more. I know that my friend needed to enlarge slightly the shoulderstock.
OK, please, let me know if a french text is offending or not, so I'll edit, or I'll try to translate some parts or answer if any questions ????

A friend of mine made once this post :

Le Dr Le Mat et ses revolvers à percussion

Arme de poing à la silhouette incomparable et reconnaissable au premier regard, le revolver Le Mat à percussion est un symbole à lui tout seul.
Sa simple évocation emporte le collectionneur dans un tourbillon vers le passé ou se mêlent les images romantiques et celles, tragiques, de la terrible guerre fratricide qui déchira les Etats-Unis de 1861 à 1865.


1) LE GENIAL INVENTEUR


Né à Bordeaux le 21 Avril 1821, Jean Alexandre François Le Mat se destine d’abord à devenir prêtre. Au bout d’un an, il change radicalement l’orientation de sa vie et décide de faire des études de médecine, sanctionnée par un diplôme de la faculté de Montpellier le 15 juillet 1842. Il travaille alors pendant 16 mois à l’hôpital militaire de Bordeaux avant de quitter la France pour rejoindre la Louisiane. C’est ainsi qu’il arrive à la Nouvelle Orléans le 7 février 1844.
Plutôt que d’exercer la médecine, il choisit la voie des inventions, du commerce et des affaires.
De 1844 à 1859, il fut impliqué dans le commerce de tabac vers la France, se maria avec la fille du plus important banquier de la ville, développa d’importantes relations influentes, déposa plusieurs brevets d’inventions relatives au domaine maritime. Surtout, il forma un partenariat avec le Major Beauregard de l’US ARMY (formalisé le 4 avril 1859) et déposa le 21 Octobre 1856 un brevet révolutionnaire pour un revolver dont l’axe autour duquel tournait le barillet était un canon à âme lisse (« grape shot revolver »).


http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/8264/56069385.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/13/56069385.jpg/)




Les premiers prototypes de ce revolver ne seront construits qu’à partir de l’année 1859, ces rarissimes exemplaires seront manufacturés par l’armurier John Krider de Philadelphie.
Sept exemplaires sont actuellement recensés dans le monde, en plus d’avoir un design différent des armes produites en séries, ils sont marqués sur le canon : « MADE BY JOHN KRIDER PHILADA. LE MAT’S GRAPE SHOT REVOLVER PATENT ».




http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/2313/24033188.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/843/24033188.jpg/)



Grâce à l’appui du MAJ Beauregard, Le Mat tente de séduire les milieux militaires avec son nouveau revolver. Le 16 Avril 1859, le Dr Le Mat est promu aide de camp du Gouverneur de Louisiane et reçoit le titre honorifique de Colonel.

Le 9 mai 1859 le revolver est testé à l’arsenal de Washington et reçoit un accueil chaleureux de la commission, suggérant quelques ajustements mineurs et surtout que l’arme soit distribuée à titre de test sur le terrain aux formations de l’US Army.

Mais en cette période de paix, l’US Army n’est pas intéressée pour produire à ses frais ce revolver.
De mai 1859 à juillet 1860, le Maj Beauregard, en tant que représentant américain du partenariat avec Le Mat, prit contact avec toutes les principales entreprises d’armes à travers le pays en vue de faire construire ce revolver en série.
Pendant ce temps le Dr Le Mat effectuait les mêmes démarches en Europe.
Il est probable que les revolvers Kryder N°1 et N°2 aient servis de modèles de présentation pour les 2 hommes auprès des armuriers.
Ces revolvers Kryder sont très probablement les seuls revolvers Le Mat qui furent produits en Amérique.

Les 2 hommes se trouvaient alors dans une situation paradoxale, leur revolver pouvait potentiellement intéresser l’US Army mais ils n’étaient pas capables de réaliser la production industrielle de cette arme.

Le Mat s’associa alors avec un riche confrère Français, le Dr Girard, probablement dans le but de faciliter cette mise en production.
Cette association provoqua une brouille entre le Major Beauregard et le Dr Le Mat et aboutit à la dissolution de leur partenariat le 2 juillet 1860.
Ainsi naquit le nouveau partenariat entre le Dr Le Mat et le Dr Girard le 10 juillet 1860, le Dr Girard possédant alors 75% des parts de l’entreprise.
Après plusieurs mois de travail, les deux associés décrochèrent le 15 novembre 1860 leur premier contrat de 400 revolvers pour la Garde de la Nouvelle Orléans : une composante de la milice de Louisiane.
Avec le déclenchement de la guerre de sécession en 1861, cette commande sera incluse dans les futures commandes des armées de la confédération (le 12 Août 1861, le Dr Le Mat passa un contrat de 5000 revolvers)

Devant le peu de ressources industrielles du Sud, les associés décidèrent d’installer la fabrication dans une petite usine à Paris située au 9 passage Joinville à Paris, afin de produire leur revolver.
C’est ainsi que débute réellement l’histoire des revolvers Le Mat avec la production en série à Paris du célèbre modèle à percussion à destination des armées de la CSA (Confederate States Army). Certains auteurs affirment que les 450 premiers revolvers Le Mat furent produits à Liège et non à Paris : quelques zones de mystères persistent!


2) LES REVOLVERS LE MAT A PERCUSSION

Traditionnellement, les revolvers Le Mat à percussion sont classés en plusieurs modèles distincts, en fonction de leurs caractéristiques extérieures :

a) Les premiers modèles de revolvers Le Mat (numéro de série de 1 à 450) comportent les caractéristiques suivantes :
• un pontet repose doigt,
• le levier de chargement à la droite de l'arme
• Système de clef pour le démontage sous la forme d’une petite pédale
• Un anneau de calotte flottant
• Un canon octogonal au départ puis rond.
• Le marquage LM en lettres anglaises entrelacées dans un ovale à côté du numéro de série sur le coté droit de l’arme

http://www.zimagez.com/miniature/clemat1ermodautorantiquefirearms-01.jpg (http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/clemat1ermodautorantiquefirearms-01.php)-http://www.zimagez.com/miniature/dlemat1ermodautorantiquefirearms-06.jpg (http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/dlemat1ermodautorantiquefirearms-06.php)- http://www.zimagez.com/miniature/eemat1ermodautorantiquefirearms-09.jpg (http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/eemat1ermodautorantiquefirearms-09.php)


http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/9451/flemat1ermodautorantiqu.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/17/flemat1ermodautorantiqu.jpg/)

http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/5879/77103351.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/534/77103351.jpg/)



b) Entre les numéros de série 450 vers 1000 (environ), apparaissent les modèles dits « de transition », combinant les caractéristiques des 1ers modèles et celles du 2eme modèle.

c) A partir du numéro de série 1000 (environ), on voit apparaître des changements qui caractérisent les revolvers Le Mat « second modèle », à savoir :

• Suppression du pontet repose doigt pour laisser à la place un pontet rond
• Levier de chargement à gauche de l'arme
• Démontage du revolver par une grosse goupille sous le canon
• Anneau de calotte intégrée dans l’armature de la poignée
• Canon supérieur octogonal sur toute la longueur
• Marquage LM en lettres capitales surmonté d’une étoile à coté du numéro de série sur le coté droit de l’arme


http://www.zimagez.com/miniature/hlemat2ememodautorantiquefirearms-03.jpg (http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/hlemat2ememodautorantiquefirearms-03.php)- -http://www.zimagez.com/miniature/ilemat1ermodautorantiquefirearms-02.jpg (http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/ilemat1ermodautorantiquefirearms-02.php)-http://www.zimagez.com/miniature/jlemat2ememodautorantiquefirearms-11.jpg (http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/jlemat2ememodautorantiquefirearms-11.php)

Il existera tout au long de l'évolution de ce revolver des variantes mineures concernant la forme du chien à 2 têtes et des variantes de marquages sur le canon associées à chaque évolution.



Ainsi un changement notable de marquage sur le canon est observé à partir des premiers revolvers autour du numéro 1800. Avant ce numéro le marquage est « Col Le Mat Bte sgdg Paris », le nouveau marquage devient alors « Syst Le Mat Bte sgdg Paris » en lettres gothiques ou capitales.

http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/9245/kp6232272.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/708/kp6232272.jpg/)

http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/7276/llemat2ememodautorantiq.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/856/llemat2ememodautorantiq.jpg/)




Curieusement on a pu observer certains revolvers portant ce marquage en lettres capitales avec une faute de frappe : SCDG au lieu de SGDG.

Le revolver Le Mat de fabrication parisienne portant le plus haut numéro observé est le 2494, on ignore si la production continua longtemps après ce numéro à Paris.

d) Les revolvers Le Mat produits en Grande Bretagne.

Une certaine zone de mystère entoure encore la production de ces armes outre-manche.

Dans le but de diversifier et d’augmenter les capacités de production de leur revolver les deux associés se tournèrent alors vers l’industrie armurière britannique.
La numérotation des Le Mat Anglais est confuse, certaines armes comportent des numéros de série faibles (un spécimen numéroté 5 est connu) puis la numérotation saute directement
autour du chiffre 100 puis dans la tranche des 1000, 3000, 5000, la grande majorité de ces revolvers étant numéroté entre 8000 et 9000.

D’après les recherches les plus récentes sur le sujet, il semble probable que les revolvers produits en Angleterre soient divisés en 2 catégories distinctes :

• Les armes produites par de petits armuriers indépendants (Aston & Francis, Robert Jones…)

• Celles incluses dans le cadre d’un contrat de 2000 armes clairement défini avec l’entreprise Tipping & Lawden (seuls 1000 exemplaires de ce contrat furent en réalité produits)


Les revolvers portant un numéro de série bas (inférieur à 8000) ont toutes les caractéristiques des revolvers produits à Paris dans les premières années.
De plus ces armes comportent des variantes au niveau du marquage du canon et une numérotation complètement chaotique suggérant la fabrication par des petits armuriers indépendants.
En réalité en observant de près ces revolvers on remarque des similitudes d’usinage avec les armes produites à Paris, indiquant très certainement que ces revolvers furent produits à Paris et expédiés pour finition (numérotation, marquage sur le canon …) chez différentes petites entreprises en Angleterre.



A l’inverse, les revolvers dont le numéro de série est compris entre 8000 et 9000 sont quasiment tous identiques au niveau finition comme au niveau mécanique, suggérant ainsi leur fabrication par une entreprise unique.
De plus ils comportent des différences d’usinage significatives avec les modèles tardifs produits à Paris, confirmant ainsi l’hypothèse d’une production entièrement anglaise.
Ces armes sont marquées sur le canon : « LEMAT & GIRARD’S PATENT LONDON » en lettres capitales.

http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/8923/97100483.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/826/97100483.jpg/)







La production effective de ces armes du contrat Tipping & Lawden débuta au début de l’année 1865, devant les difficultés financières croissantes du gouvernement de la Confédération, le Dr Girard ne fut payé que pour les 1000 premiers exemplaires et le reste de la commande fut annulé.

Il est peu probable qu’un seul de ces revolvers fut utilisé au combat par les armées du Sud, en effet le dernier document officiel témoignant d’une livraison effective de revolvers Le Mat par un bateau ayant réussi à forcer le blocus maritime du Nord date du milieu de l’année 1864.





e) Un autre critère de classification :

En réalité, si les différents modèles de revolvers Le Mat sont aujourd'hui désignés par les collectionneurs de la façon décrite ci dessus, il existe une différence importante dans le mécanisme de l'arme qui est transverse à la classification décrite.
En effet sur les premiers modèles de revolvers Parisien compris entre le numéro 1 et 2000 (environ), le verrouillage du barillet est assuré par un petit axe en métal qui, lorsque le chien est à l'armé, sort à coté de la barrette pour s'emboîter dans des petits trous (diam 1.5 mm) creusés dans la face arrière du barillet.
Ce mode de verrouillage ne convenait pas à l'utilisation pour de nombreuses raisons :
manqué de précision d'ajustage dans la fabrication, encrassage du à l'emploi de la poudre noire et de résidus divers qui bouchaient les trous dans le barillet, casse du petit ergot en métal....

http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/3770/m2ergot.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/202/m2ergot.jpg/)




http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/9914/nlemat2ememodautorantiq.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/94/nlemat2ememodautorantiq.jpg/)



Il faut souligner que les revolvers portant des marquages anglais avec des petits numéros de série comportent ce système de blocage du barillet.

lionrobe77
June 9, 2013, 01:23 PM
Suite à ces problèmes, le mode de verrouillage fut changé (à partir environ du numéro de série 2000) au profit d'une came s'emboîtant à l’arrière du barillet dans de larges encoches, assurant ainsi un verrouillage de bien meilleure qualité !
Les revolvers fabriqués à Londres dans le cadre du contrat Tipping & Lawden (numéro de série 8000 à 9000) comportent tous ce nouveau système de verrouillage.


http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/126/37545662.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/248/37545662.jpg/)


http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/7377/72452094.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/546/72452094.jpg/)



Cette différence fondamentale de mécanisme est visible au premier coup d’œil en observant le côté droit du revolver. En effet, la présence d’une petite vis à côté de la grosse vis de l’axe du chien indique d’emblée que le système de verrouillage est du premier type (cette petite vis est la vis de tension du ressort du petit axe s’emboîtant dans les trous à l’arrière du barillet)


http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/1511/38512102.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/849/38512102.jpg/)



http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/5120/37530855.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/15/37530855.jpg/)








f) La fabrication et la livraison des revolvers Le Mat

Le Docteur Le Mat et son associé le Dr Girard signèrent un contrat de 5000 revolvers pour les armées du sud, ce contrat ne sera jamais honoré totalement pour plusieurs raisons.
Tout d'abord, au niveau de la production, le revolver se révèle compliqué et long à produire.
De plus, le temps passant la confédération rechignait à payer les revolvers pour des problèmes de trésorerie.
Ainsi, les relations entre les Dr Girard responsable de la production à Paris et le major Caleb Huse, inspecteur des armées du sud responsable des achats d'armes en Europe, devinrent extrêmement tendues, Huse refusant de nombreux revolvers à l'inspection.
Un des reproches du Maj Huse portait sur le jeu que comportait le barillet à l’armé, imputable à un mode de verrouillage fragile. C'est suite à ces remarques, qu'il fut décidé de changer le système de verrouillage.
Cette modification ne désarma ni l’hostilité évidente du major Huse manifeste, ni sa mauvaise volonté certaine à accepter les revolvers Le Mat. Il fut même accusé par les 2 docteurs d'être corrompu et de privilégier l'achat du revolver anglais KERR produit par la London Armoury (de fait le revolver KERR avait clairement la préférence du MAJ HUSE).
Enfin, aux problèmes de production du revolver, s'ajoutait le problème de leur livraison car le temps passant, le blocus maritime des côtes de la confédération par la marine du nord s’avérait de plus en plus efficace, coulant de nombreux navires sudistes tentant de forcer le passage.

Ainsi, on estime que les derniers revolvers Le Mat fabriqués à Paris à avoir pu traverser l'atlantique et combattre aux mains de soldats confédérés ont des numéros de séries inférieurs à #1850 (environ).

Le total de production des revolvers Le Mat à percussion toutes productions confondues (France, Angleterre) est estimé à environ 3500 exemplaires dont à peu prés 1500 furent effectivement livrés aux armées de la Confédération.
Une écrasante majorité des revolvers utilisés par la CSA furent produits à Paris, quelques revolvers finis à Londres par des petits armuriers indépendants ont peut être pu forcer le blocus et rejoindre le Sud.[/quote]

Gaucho Gringo
June 9, 2013, 05:53 PM
Lionrobe77, no problem with the French text. I just went to Bing Translator and got the translated text. Interesting reading.

snidervolley
June 10, 2013, 08:56 AM
Wow
Lionrobe thanks for the post
found out after digging into my lemat thayt the main spring retainer pawl is broken %$^#()!! not sure if im capable of going that deep into this

elhombreconnonombre
July 5, 2013, 02:22 PM
I saw this on gunbroker. I don't think this is an Italian repro bp cyl. May be a fake, from a non firing repro, or perhaps could it be an original? What do yall think?

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=351382872#PIC

Dan D
July 17, 2013, 01:56 AM
The first time they listed it, I believe they said it was Uberti made. However, Uberti never made Lemat's did they? It should be pretty easy to tell if it's italian made or original as the threads would be metric on a repro.

elhombreconnonombre
July 18, 2013, 04:10 PM
I suggested to the seller that since they
were in Lost Wages to take it over to the
Pawn Stars gun guy. Dont know if they did. If
it was a genuine sn 333 cyl, it might have been
a cyl from one of the first shipment of Le Mats that
made it through the Union blockade.

col.lemat
July 18, 2013, 06:35 PM
Would the Italian made repro have metric threads? what about the original Lemats that were made in England France and Belgium. I some how guess that they just might be metric also.

elhombreconnonombre
July 19, 2013, 01:07 AM
I believe all modern Italian repros have metric threads including the nipples. I have no
idea what mechanical std was used in the 1860s in Europe.
Maybe mssr. Lionrobe will chime in from France.
I caught the Pawn Stars show where Rick offered a guy
$ 12k for an original Le Mat. I think the seller wisely declined.

elhombreconnonombre
September 20, 2013, 12:08 PM
Bonjour and a bighowdy from deep in the heart of
Texas.
A couple of Le Mats came up on gb lately. An early model with a plain non engraved
cylinder sold for $925 with 20+ bidders. There is another fancy gilded
"limited edition collectable" Le Mat with no bids at $1300.

flibuste
September 20, 2013, 02:00 PM
here is some shooting at 25 meters with my pistol (has been polished) :

http://i42.servimg.com/u/f42/11/02/14/58/01910.jpg

http://i70.servimg.com/u/f70/11/02/14/58/lemat_13.jpg

http://i70.servimg.com/u/f70/11/02/14/58/lemat_12.jpg

http://i70.servimg.com/u/f70/11/02/14/58/lemat_11.jpg
http://i70.servimg.com/u/f70/11/02/14/58/lemat_10.jpg




But here is an engraved model :



http://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/448219DSCN0035.jpg

snidervolley
September 22, 2013, 08:55 AM
went on a vacation to Thailand (wifes choice) and went here there and every where not expecting to find a thing truely interesting to me .
on the final days of the trip she wanted to see a palace ,so away we went in 95 degree heat which is ok but it was 95 percent humidty as well (PLeH!)
and as i was getting done for the day went into a building and low and behold it was an armoury and in the back of the armoury and in glass cases where three lemat percussion carbines WOW

kBob
September 22, 2013, 09:47 AM
AND YOU DID NOT TAKE A PICTURE?!?!?!?!

Sorry for the shouting.....

-kBob

snidervolley
September 23, 2013, 09:43 AM
http://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg578/snidervolley/IMG_4734_zpsdf25af7d.jpg

i did but being behind glass and not being alowed to take pics they didnt turn out so good

elhombreconnonombre
October 30, 2013, 12:21 PM
My Le Mat with horizontal cross draw Walker holster.

snidervolley
October 31, 2013, 07:34 AM
nice rig and picture thereof

lionrobe77
January 24, 2014, 04:38 PM
Unfortunately, Flibuste, the skillfull shooter and reloader, passed last month.

RIP, good friend.

elhombreconnonombre
January 24, 2014, 04:58 PM
Vaya con dios mi compadre flibuste. We will all Miss you. Thanks for informing us mssr. Lionrobe.

jolasa
February 12, 2014, 05:35 PM
Col. Lemat,

You tuned up my LeMat back in 2011.

Are you still doing tune ups on the Pietta LeMat pistol, for general fit and reliable shotgun firing?

Jolasa

snidervolley
February 13, 2014, 08:33 AM
col lemat i would like mine tuned too if your available

elhombreconnonombre
July 17, 2014, 01:55 PM
I came across some posts somewhere related to the Le Mat shown in the gun case aboard the "Wanderer" Pullman car in the "Wild Wild West" movie. It appears to be a steam punkish Le Mat prop gun with an interesting double ball-jointed shoulder stock. It got me thinking.....maybe?????

elhombreconnonombre
September 3, 2014, 12:58 AM
Is There an updated "club" membership roster?

snidervolley
September 4, 2014, 08:47 AM
elhombre
nails it

snidervolley
November 19, 2014, 10:34 AM
i'm in market to buy a navy lemat revolver any body sellin

snidervolley
November 20, 2014, 08:58 AM
going to try this weekend to get video of the lemat carbine shooting ,http://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg578/snidervolley/IMG_4857_zps73aa2690.jpg (http://s1244.photobucket.com/user/snidervolley/media/IMG_4857_zps73aa2690.jpg.html)
its finally done . after the internal pawl broke from the new straight and stronger spring made for it i tried every gunsmith and lemat guy i could find and all refused . so last night i made the tools to disect it and took it apart and made a titanium pawl and succes !

snidervolley
November 20, 2014, 08:59 AM
http://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg578/snidervolley/IMG_3480_zpsf350dd2e.jpg (http://s1244.photobucket.com/user/snidervolley/media/IMG_3480_zpsf350dd2e.jpg.html)

elhombreconnonombre
November 20, 2014, 10:58 AM
SV
Very nice. You da Man! Cant wait to see the video shooting the shotgun and the revolving rifle and how you hold it with your off hand using that big trigger guard.

I love your work creating your LM Long gun. I have gotten into Bulldog style revolvers of late. Do you think a firing short barrel Bulldog Le Mat is doable? I made a photoshop drawing of a prototype. It looks pretty interesting...safe and accurate? Maybe not so much.

snidervolley
November 22, 2014, 10:40 AM
the lee 44 mold mics bullets out at 451 this seems awful big to shove in the chamber holes???

snidervolley
December 2, 2014, 07:52 PM
im so lemated

snidervolley
December 5, 2014, 07:26 PM
got a cylinder loading press (way exciting) im getting along

Ephraim Kibbey
December 8, 2014, 12:29 AM
Your creation is beautiful but safety first! I have read that those shooting revolving carbines in the "old days" lowered the loading levers and held the front of the gun by them after they watched their friends experience doubling of cylinders with their hands in the way. With the LeMat loading lever on its side, is it still possible to do the same with it? I have not experienced doubling of a revolver (LOTS of grease) but I have with a BP side by side and it was quite an experience. Stay safe!

Ephraim Kibbey
December 8, 2014, 12:46 AM
The Metric System was officially adopted by the French in 1795 but suspended by Napoleon in 1812. It was again made compulsory there in 1840. My guess is that original LeMat screws would have had metric threads. Does anyone have a thread gauge and an original LeMat from which they are willing to pull a screw?

kBob
December 8, 2014, 05:54 AM
Ephraim,

Take note of the front of the trigger guard on Snidervolly's LeMat Carbine. That flat bit is for wrapping the support hand around to keep the hand to the rear of the barrel cylinder gap.

-kBob

snidervolley
December 8, 2014, 09:34 AM
Kbob & Ephraim
Kbob is so right if you keep your hand on the trigger gaurd front as purposly designed by dr lemat ( and very comfortable ) you hold no risk at all and the hold is very stable .
and chain fire in the cylinder is not to risky if loaded right (and i feel )most of the risk of chain fire is from the cap not being securly pushed down as the bullets are shaved to cylinder size with wadding under and above little or actually no room for it .
i will at first chance get some vid posted of shooting this

Ephraim Kibbey
December 8, 2014, 11:02 AM
I noticed the trigger guard but I wasn't quick enough to get its purpose. I'm glad to know that you and the good Doctor L. are proactive types.

snidervolley
December 10, 2014, 01:11 PM
there is a pic from the old west right after civil war of an farmer exchanging guns with another farmer , the one handing over to the other a colt revolving rifle for a spencer I believe ? and the man handing over the revolving rifle has his for arm hand bandaged (most likely an uninformed and the colt had a wood for arm that gave the impression that it was the correct hold)
ouch

elhombreconnonombre
December 10, 2014, 11:40 PM
It is interesting that while there was a known safety issue with the 1855 Colt's revolving rifle that limited their use, did not the Paterson revolving rifle have the same issue, but this is not mentioned as frequently as with the later rifle? The Paterson revolving rifles were reportedly used by the US Army during the Seminole War and by US Marines during the landings at Vera Cruz during the Mexican War.

I also hold my Le Mat Cavalry in a two hand hold using the spur trigger guard to keep my off hand out of harms way.

snidervolley
December 13, 2014, 09:54 AM
doesn't seem to be many lemat members ;(

elhombreconnonombre
December 13, 2014, 01:34 PM
SV
I guess just you and me compadre. Looking forward to a video of your LM carbine in action? How about some muzzle velocity data, shotgun shot spread, even a ballistics gelatin test...hmmmmm? :)

col.lemat
December 13, 2014, 01:47 PM
I'm still here! I have some new to me LeMats that I will need to photo and add for those that are into the historical aspect of the pistol

snidervolley
December 13, 2014, 02:00 PM
tres amigos !

Ephraim Kibbey
December 13, 2014, 05:54 PM
May I join, May I, May I, PLEASE!!!

Hopefully you will see my Pietta cavalry in its Hampel Wood Products custom case. This my first attempt at a picture. The preview looks good so here goes.

elhombreconnonombre
December 13, 2014, 07:15 PM
EK
Nice case there and very reasonable in price too.

Ephraim Kibbey
December 13, 2014, 07:29 PM
Thanks, El Hombre!

I just sent him outlines of the revolver and my accouterments along with some photos of cased sets from the internet and it arrived a couple of weeks later.

He also repaired my Walker case after the guy I bought it from on GB mailed it with the Walker (Cimarron COTL) inside. When I got it, all the little partition walls were kindling.

snidervolley
December 13, 2014, 07:42 PM
Ephraim
welcome welcome
nice gun and WOW nice case for sure I want one :)
wow again those are impressive prices how does he do it , I wont build my own ever again

Ephraim Kibbey
December 13, 2014, 07:48 PM
Thanks, Snidervolley! I'm sure he can fix you up. I miss quoted the name - its Hampels Woodland Products.

elhombreconnonombre
December 13, 2014, 09:47 PM
I thought I had found some inexpensive cases at Old South Firearms, but these beat Old South's case prices by a mile.

PainlessWolf
December 14, 2014, 12:19 AM
Good Evening,
For reasons of auditory related health, I am switching to black powder shooting. My first revolver is a birthday gift to myself, a Pietta Calvary model Lemat. I am in love with this revolver and haven't even fired it yet. ( still collecting odds and ends ) May I be allowed to join the Club?
regards,
Painless

col.lemat
December 14, 2014, 01:20 AM
Welcome Painless, we would love to see a pic of what you have and any comments if you have fired it. Later next week I hope to post some new pictures of additions to the collection that I have picked up.
Colonel LeMat

snidervolley
December 14, 2014, 09:09 AM
welcome painless to our ranks of those who collect the coolest pistol of c/w

PainlessWolf
December 15, 2014, 01:08 PM
Good Morning,
Here are a couple of photos of the LeMat. I purchased the revolver used from a gentleman in Albuquerque, NM. It was missing the ram rod from the first and only time he shot it. I purchased that piece from Dixie Guns and am really pleased with the overall fit and finish of this LeMat. Thank you for the warm welcome!
regards,
Painless Wolf

snidervolley
December 15, 2014, 01:35 PM
she is a beauty aye!

snidervolley
December 15, 2014, 01:37 PM
col lemat
im totally into the history as im sure the others are and looking forward to further posts on the subject
if you have any knowledge on the loading of the carbine vs the pistol I would be particulary interested .

PainlessWolf
December 15, 2014, 02:06 PM
Gentlemen, thank you again. I have a couple of ideas about things to do when actually firing the LeMat to keep from losing another ramrod when the loading lever jumps up during recoil. I think that putting a small, elastic hi temp silicon O ring around the end of the barrel and ramrod while out shooting it would keep the lever from jumping up and flinging the ramrod as well as eventually breaking the loading lever clamp on the side of the barrel. The O ring could be easily removed while reloading then slid back on when ready to fire again. I don't expect to be caught up in a calvary charge while out for a pleasant afternoon of shooting so the extra time spent reloading should not matter. What do you all think?
regards,
Painless

elhombreconnonombre
December 15, 2014, 03:46 PM
I have used a leather thong tied tightly around the loading lever and barrel ala Colt Walker, like back in the day, before elastomer o rings.

Ephraim Kibbey
December 15, 2014, 04:17 PM
Very Nice PainlessWolf!!!

PainlessWolf
December 15, 2014, 05:37 PM
Elhombre!,
An excellent idea. *bows* Should I ever get into Action Shooting sports where they grade ( so I hear ) for appearance points, the leather thong will be in my saddlebag and on the muzzle of my LeMat. Thank you again for the idea refinement.
regards,
Painless Wolf

PainlessWolf
December 15, 2014, 05:39 PM
Ephraim,
Thank you, Sir. I have saved the link for the Wooden Case website and plan to have that fellow build me a case like yours with red or oxblood felt.
regards,
Painless

frgood
December 15, 2014, 07:45 PM
Also, looking forward to having one in the future as well.

It was Doc Tanner's primary weapon

snidervolley
December 15, 2014, 07:52 PM
doc tanner?

PainlessWolf
December 15, 2014, 08:48 PM
Before I was lucky enough to find the LeMat, I knew what I wanted so I had the holster made. It is a strong side cross draw. Then I spent almost a year forming the holster with a very nice Denix replica of the LeMat. So the LeMat fit it perfectly from day one. A few more pictures to illustrate.
regards,
Painless Wolf

snidervolley
December 15, 2014, 09:23 PM
I want to do thst to my holster , some body else suggested alchohol soak and steretch??

PainlessWolf
December 16, 2014, 04:23 PM
Snider,
Sir, I just left the Denix replica in the holster all of the time and kept the leather treated with a conditioner. The holster will never be one of those formed jobbies where the leather is shrunken around a mold of the gun but it holsters and unholsters fairly well. ;o)
regards,
Painless Wolf

snidervolley
December 16, 2014, 04:33 PM
painlesswolf thats all im after as well thanks

PainlessWolf
December 16, 2014, 10:11 PM
Snider,
Please call me Painless. ;o) My Mom called me Painless Wolf or my whole name Painless Black Wolf if whatever I had done was sufficiently bad to warrant it. ( It usually was ;o)
Thanks again for the invitation here. I've been practicing cocking the LeMat with one hand. It has a fearsome spring!
regards,
Painless

snidervolley
December 16, 2014, 10:27 PM
Lol painless

elhombreconnonombre
December 18, 2014, 12:01 PM
Has anyone ever seen someone in CAS use a pair of Le Mats in competition?

snidervolley
December 21, 2014, 08:36 AM
truly impressive fire power ! somebody has to have done it?

elhombreconnonombre
December 21, 2014, 12:41 PM
If nothing more than for the style points :)

PainlessWolf
December 24, 2014, 12:36 PM
Happy Holidays and Merry Christmas, Gentlemen!
May your Tree or Shrub of choice be covered in accessory goodness. Enjoy your Grapeshot Revolvers over the holiday season.
regards and salutes with Nog'
Painless

TurnTheMapRed
December 25, 2014, 02:06 AM
The LeMat loading lever has always and will always be removed by yours truly the moment one is placed into service. Through the use of a thick rubber disk (think hockey puck or engine mount rubber) and a bolt with a thick two inch washer on each side (rivets into one washer in a perfect 9 cylinder formation so that they press in the shot to the cylinder bores when loading) and one hex nut on the end with two ratchet wrenches you can load the LeMat fast and reliably. If you use the loading lever, you are either crazy or like breaking parts that are difficult to replace. I can load powder, slide the cylinder down the bolt, place 9 lead balls on each chamber, place the top washer with rivets over each ball...screw down the hex nut and tighten with the ratchet wrenches until the lead forms the rings and the balls disappear...shortening grease on the balls, replace on the 20 gauge barrel and screw back the 44 barrel...cap each one - done in about 2 minutes. I have not been able to load a LeMat's 9 chambers any faster than about 2 minutes...if you can, please tell me how!!

The shotgun works very well if you put shortening grease over a thin cloth and wrap the 20 gauge over powder cards until they are very tight in the bore (use two cards, be sure they fit TIGHT)....use a shotgun load for three 44 cal. balls - take a 20 gauge sabot and heat it to set a twist of 15 degrees...put the three 44 cal. lead balls in it, then the over powder card. The "twist" in the sabot gives a slight rifling effect and will enable three devastating holes to actually hit near your point of aim at 10 yards. It is the only way I know of to make the entire weapon work quickly, accurately, and with sufficient power to actually be of meaningful use...

There is something remarkable about this piece when a burglar is confronted with it - hence the nickname "pant soiler".

PainlessWolf
December 26, 2014, 12:46 PM
Good Morning,
I looked into pelletized BP when I was researching all things LeMat because I wanted to be able to count on this revolver as a home defense weapon if I had to. The more I learn about the gun and the components used, I think I would be safer ( for both revolver and myself ) to keep using one of my regular firearms if the need arose. I've never gotten a clear consensus on how long I could leave the chambers loaded ( not capped ) and be able to count on it firing even here in a dry climate like CO. It is an amazing weapon and is the current envy of my little local shooting circle.
regards,
Painless

TurnTheMapRed
December 26, 2014, 02:30 PM
If you do a search on Robert E. Lee's son, you can find out how long a black powder percussion pistol can be loaded and still be relied upon to fire (many years).

If you live in a heavily restricted state, sometimes the law is more tolerant of a replica or pre-1899 black powder pistol in a home defense situation. By the time you have the trigger locks off of your modern weapon or have it out of the safe, you might be dead. Loaded with 777 you can expect to approximate modern velocities and with a pure lead projectile the expansion is rapid and devastating upon impact. It is genuine stopping power. You should wax or grease the sides of the nipples against moisture and seal the bullets in with a mixture of beeswax and shortening (70/30 respectively). It will be ready when you need it for at least 14 years. 9 shots of a 44 and a three 44 shot cluster, all pure lead, approx. 1100 fps, with a heavy pistol to steady your hand. It is a viable home defense option for some of us who can't sleep with a modern pistol holstered to our person. I will continue to test one once a year, thus far not a single misfire (CCI #10 with some black powder in the nipple of the shotgun works EVERY time!).

snidervolley
December 26, 2014, 02:40 PM
the gun is a perfect home defense weapon and perfectly reliable home defense weapon , my humble opine is that it wouldn't take saddle abuse for months on end and still be in great shape .sitting next to your bed itlll ast for long time .

PainlessWolf
December 26, 2014, 04:25 PM
Gentlemen,
Thank you for the information and tips. I'll adjust my thinking accordingly.
regards,
Painless

PainlessWolf
February 19, 2015, 05:35 PM
Good Afternoon all,
Not a lot going on but to ping the Club current, I do have a little news. I sent an email to Hampels to have a gun case for the LeMat built. Similar to Mr. Kibbeys save for red felt and a glass insert to view the revolver and accessories with the lid closed.
How is everyone? Awakening from a cold winter and looking forward to Spring and warm days at the range I hope.

snidervolley
February 20, 2015, 08:58 AM
thanks for the wakeup,
i am looking forward to taking out the le mats in the warmer weather for sure

PainlessWolf
March 1, 2015, 02:00 AM
Evening all,
I've got the Hampels case underway and am searching around for stuff to put in it. I've got a nice nipple wrench and snail cap loader already. A couple of days ago I located this beauty and won it at auction. Spout is 24 grain which should work well with a lead ball and wonderwad. Back to the search, still need a bullet mold and a old fashioned percussion cap tin.

PainlessWolf
May 6, 2015, 10:48 PM
I got a nice .451 bullet mold today from a cased 1860 Army, won at another auction. The mold completed my accessory hunt so here is my Lemat's Grapeshot Revolver at home in it's new digs.
Pictures and regards,
Painless

Garret
June 21, 2015, 04:14 PM
Greetings fellow LeMat enthusiasts!
I've been fascinated by these works of Victorian innovation for years and had to take the plunge. I recently acquired an unfired early Navy Arms so-called Army model. Overall it's in really great condition and is mechanically good. As a bonus it came with one of the replica molds (probably not much practical use, but cool....) as well as a rather light duty presentation case with pseudo French fitted interior. This will take quite a bit of work to make useful, but it's a starting point.

I've read through the LeMat club postings and have noted a number of comments on a couple of points that I would like advise on.

First is the mainspring. As most have posted, mainsprings on most of these are quite strong for what I take to be a good reason, mainly to be able to fire the shotgun barrel. I have found on mine that it literally takes a two-handed technique to cock in order to get the last locking "click". I would like to be able to do this one-handed, and would like to know if there is a smith that can be recommended for doing this. If it's a tricky point, my first priority is shooting reliability and would prefer two-handed use to a questionable shot barrel reliability.

Second is the loading lever. As most experience it, I too find the arrangement quite "wanting" for practical use. If it were just the inconvenient placemant of lever, etc. I could live with it, but at least on mine the ram plunger doesn't ride tightly in the groove cut for it, so when lining up for seating the ball, it can wobble out of a straight line. Are there any out there that have worked on this and modified either the plunger or barrel groove to have it ride straight?

I've also noticed a little discussion of fitting a shoulder stock. Has anyone been able to do this? I thing it would be a fantastic accessory and make for a very handy add-on.

Thanks so much for the opportunity to address the group and I look forward to future posts.

elhombreconnonombre
June 21, 2015, 06:14 PM
G
Welcome to this club of very discerning gentlemen pistoliers of this very interesting yet complicated piece of engineering.
Some folks will no doubt come along to comment, I believe Col. Le Mat is the man to answer your questions. He kindly offered to take a look at my Cavalry model to maybe lighten the main spring cocking effort, while at the same time ensure there is enough force to whack the shotgun cap.
I had the crazy idea to get 2 LeMats for CAS style points. I even worked out every day cocking the trigger with each hand and thumb without assistance until I felt I could do it with ease. They are fun and are like money in the bank. I have gotten decent pawn shop loans on mine a couple of times. I assume your mould is from Pedersoli. What size bullet does it make? My LeMat Pietta box says they take a .451 bullet.
As far as the loading lever issue, you can simply unscrew the barrel assembly, take off the cylinder and load on a cylinder press or get yourself a steel tube with an I.D. that fits over the ram handle, after taking off the ramrod. That way at least you will minimize the bending moment on the ram tube.
As far as stocks, you probably have seen LionRobe77's posts. My ideas are a little different. I am thinking about a wire stock affair hooking into a steel or aluminum block attached via machine screws into holes tapped into the lower portion of the back of the grip. Ill find a pic of what I am talking about.
ps If you need a cheap strong side right belt holster or left side cross draw holster check out the Triple K Walker holster from Cabela's. It is a little long, but you can always cut the closed toe off the holster for an open look. I wear mine in a D.I.Y. shoulder rig.

PainlessWolf
June 21, 2015, 11:56 PM
Good evening and Welcome!
I was right on the verge of selling my cased LeMat to buy a Colt Dragoon but sanity prevailed. The Colt can be found when the time is ripe but own a LeMat and you've got something. I've had no trouble cocking this massive revolver one handed but as ElHombre did, I had to practice to do it repeatedly when firing a full cylinder off. I must have gotten lucky with the loading lever as it works as it should when reloading. When firing the gun tho', I take the ram out and put it away in a pocket. Enjoy your new revolver and if you decide to wear it on your belt, ensure that your belt is as heavy duty as your holster will need to be.
regards!

elhombreconnonombre
June 22, 2015, 02:07 AM
Well said Painless
I must say the spectacle of myself brandishing a Le Mat in each hand has some appeal, but I'm not sure how their rules apply to such a revolver. I think you might still be limited to 5 shots in each revolver per stage Quien sabe?

Although I have been thinking about ordering a Denix replica LeMat just to see if the plastic grips fit the Pietta and perhaps paint them an ivory color to fake some fancy checkered ivory grips.

PainlessWolf
June 22, 2015, 11:49 AM
Good Morning, ElHombre,
Sir, the Denix replica is slightly oversized and the plastic of the grips, while thick, is brittle. While waiting for my own replica to arrive some time ago, I read up on cosplayers' work with the replica to turn it into a fictional revolver used by the Captain of a ship on a popular Sci-Fi series. Their attempts to use spare wooden grips from the real Lemat on the Denix model formed a central thread of the difficulties involved in working with the replica. Your money and time might be better served with a spare set of wooden grips that have been sealed then stained ivory using one of the modern tinned stains that incorporate a primer in the mix.
with all regards!

elhombreconnonombre
June 22, 2015, 12:07 PM
Thanks for the tip. Maybe Ill make a rubber mold of the original grips and cast some in acrylic and paint those.

Garret
June 23, 2015, 12:50 AM
Thanks for the Welcome! I had noticed references to Col LeMat doing some tuning on these and would like to see if he'd consider working on mine. Is the best way to PM through the forum?

The problem I've experienced with the loading lever isn't the lever itself so much as the ram plunger. It won't travel straight inline with the chamber and wants to go cockeyed once it contacts the ball. I started with .451 RB and did get a "partial" ring of lead. The force didn't seem too bad, so I may try out a .454 to see if I get a tighter fit. I have made an inquiry with one of the cylinder loading ram tool vendors to see if it can work with the LeMat. I'm a bit of a purist, so I'd prefer to do this with the original style rammer if I can get the plunger to run parallel to the chambers! Any suggestions or thoughts on that one? I'll ask The Colonel on that as well.

I haven't cast any ball in the mold yet so don't know what size it throws. I'll try it next casting session.

I was intrigued by the potential of the Pedersoli Howdah shoulder stock. The contours look about right. ElHombre, I was curious whether you had looked into this stock any further after your comments on LionRobe77's posts. From your post to my initial inquiry it sounds like you've passed that idea in favor of the skeleton type. That's cool too, but I'm liking the wood stock idea. If anyone has actually been able to "dry fit" a LeMat up to the Howdah stock, I'd like to know the results. With a little work it could be a winner......

Yesterday, after posting here, I sat down with my pistol to clean after my first outing just on Saturday. I must say I was pretty pleased overall with the first go-around. It was'nt a long session as I'd have preferred but with the temp over 100 where I was, I didn't stay too long. The biggest problem I ran into was that with my last round, the hand spring must've snapped. I packed up and came home only to find the cylinder jammed when I took it out to clean! It looks like Taylors or VTI will be the only choices as far as that part goes. Any recommendations on who may have the part? I've sent inquiries and am waiting for their replies.

That'll do for now. Any tips and suggestions will be greatly appreciated. Thanks All!

G

elhombreconnonombre
June 23, 2015, 05:08 PM
G
As you may have noticed LionRobe77 posted pics of a Schofield 44 with a howdah stock attached, which appears to have similar contours to the Le Mat, but it appears that the hammer will interfere with the top of the stock attachment at full clock, plus the stock is a very short length of pull, possibly putting your face too close to the caps being fired. With a wire stock you can make it as long as you wish and adjust up and down. Somewhere I had a link to a pic of the gun wall in the train on the Wild Wild West movie that had a Le Mat with an omni directionally adjustable shoulder stock...very steam punk. http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Wild_Wild_West

Garret
June 24, 2015, 12:02 AM
EH,
Thanks for the note. I know what you mean about the LOP on the howdah stock. I also noticed on closer inspection that is doesn't have a butt plate! No good!!!

My first priority is to get it tuned up and functioning nicely. I had a pm from the Col., who is willing to do the work on my pistol. Once that is done I can start thinking about accessories such as shoulder stock. As they say, first things first.

Thanks again and I'll stay in touch.
G

col.lemat
June 24, 2015, 01:41 PM
Gary ;
When we hook up I will pass on to you my idea for a detachable shoulder stock along the lines of that of Mr. Colts on his .44 Army model. I never got around to fabricating one for a prototype and have since lost interest in the project.
COL J.F.A. LeMat

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