THR Lemat club


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Hatchett
February 10, 2011, 07:06 PM
http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/3282/lemat.jpg

It's big and ugly. The shotgun doesn't always fire. The lever cranks the wrong way and chews at the side of the barrel. It takes a thumb as strong as most arms to cock and even the trigger tries to eat a piece of your finger if you're not careful. We love them anyway. Our membership may not be quite as numerous as most. That just means we're exclusive.

If you enjoyed reading about "THR Lemat club" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
BHP FAN
February 10, 2011, 08:59 PM
Damn right you're exclusive...you're alone!I may haveta sell a coupla Colt clones and join you!

DammitBoy
February 10, 2011, 09:01 PM
I really want one, just not right now - too much on the plate...

Hatchett
February 10, 2011, 10:43 PM
Whaaat. Someone else must have one.

Shoot The Moon
February 12, 2011, 02:19 PM
Hatchett, great idea for a club - sadly I can't join - these are legal here in the UK (amazingly) but I have been put off by the many stories about their lack of reliability. I'm very interested in your practical experience of shooting the LeMat?

Hatchett
February 13, 2011, 03:03 AM
Well, as my first post implied, it's definitely an acquired taste or if you're lucky its at least not an acquired distaste. Nothing about it is convenient, from cocking to loading to cleaning. The nine shots do work great and shoot very straight. I've also never experienced any of the problems with the shotgun barrel yet but it's very new so we'll see once the springs start to break in if it will continue to ignite the caps with such a short throw (and it really ought to, considering how hard it is to cock -- really awkward with one hand). It really comes down to whether the novelty and the cool factor are worth the price (I got a deal on mine, so I'm not disappointed), because on almost every other level its inferior to a basic Colt or Remington pattern mechanism.

madcratebuilder
February 13, 2011, 06:39 AM
The loading lever is far from robust! I use a loading stand most the time.
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d37/madcratebuilder/PICT0011Small-1.jpg

If you carefully sand the face of the caps you use on the center barrel you well have better reliability with ignition.
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d37/madcratebuilder/lemat01.jpg

The LeMat is different to say the least, I have become very attached to mine. With nine rounds of .451 RB and a .625 RB or shot from the center barrel you well not find more firepower in a single cap and ball revolver.
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d37/madcratebuilder/lemat01-1.jpg

mykeal
February 13, 2011, 07:23 AM
That's a fine looking revolver, mcb. I've not seen a LeMat that looked as well cared for before.

madcratebuilder
February 14, 2011, 01:50 PM
That's a fine looking revolver, mcb. I've not seen a LeMat that looked as well cared for before.
Thank you sir. It's starting to show some wear in the chambers and some blue wear on the screw slots. It has about 100 rds now.

snidervolley
February 25, 2011, 09:11 AM
madcratebuilder & hatchet
i to am also a lemat fan and owner .
i have two albeit both are in my work shop being converted to carbines .
i t is just the neatest piece (yes it does take tlc ) but given that holding the revolver in your hand is just plane impressive
are you a crate builder? as i would be interested in buying some for homes for the twins
kymm

earlthegoat2
February 25, 2011, 10:55 AM
I dont visit the BP section too often but when I see a thread with LeMat in the title I will definitely be taking a little look. These are very cool I think and humongous. Probably the only cap n' ball revolver I would ever consider but there a bunch of cartridge firearms that are behind this on the "To Buy Oneday List".

Who makes reproducitons out of curiosity?

Engineer Bill
February 26, 2011, 07:13 PM
Hello The LeMat Club!
Picture is my LeMat. I made a lighter hammer spring and have shot it in SASS matches, slow, but the style points were immense.
A removable loading lever was made which fits on a headless pin, which replaced the original loading lever retaining screw,visiable in picture.
Regards,
Engineer Bill

arcticap
February 27, 2011, 04:26 AM
Who makes reproducitons out of curiosity?

Pietta makes reproductions of the LeMat.
Dixie Gun Works sells three LeMat versions:

Army:

http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_92_187_189&products_id=3496&osCsid=815ca415bef18e3b9f94490c7f2f55b7

Navy:

http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_92_187_189&products_id=3498&osCsid=815ca415bef18e3b9f94490c7f2f55b7

Cavalry:

http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_92_187_189&products_id=3497&osCsid=815ca415bef18e3b9f94490c7f2f55b7

madcratebuilder
February 27, 2011, 06:49 AM
A removable loading lever was made which fits on a headless pin, which replaced the original loading lever retaining screw,visiable in picture.

Excellent idea!

cheatin charlie
February 27, 2011, 07:27 AM
Hello The LeMat Club!
Picture is my LeMat. I made a lighter hammer spring and have shot it in SASS matches, slow, but the style points were immense.
A removable loading lever was made which fits on a headless pin, which replaced the original loading lever retaining screw,visiable in picture.
Regards,
Engineer Bill
Could you post picture of your new loading lever?
Thanks Charlie

Cap n Ball
February 27, 2011, 09:22 AM
Got one but I don't shoot it very often.

snidervolley
February 28, 2011, 10:05 AM
http://http://britishmilitariaforums.yuku.com/topic/8837/lemat

snidervolley
February 28, 2011, 10:08 AM
C:\Documents and Settings\kkw7394\Favorites\102_1582.JPGhttp://C:\Documents and Settings\kkw7394\Favorites\102_1582.JPG

Ole Humpback
February 28, 2011, 01:31 PM
I'm assuming that these are all Pietta reproduction LeMat. If not, Congrats to you who have original LeMats, they are near priceless. If they are reproductions, why are they so unreliable. I understand the need to keep them authentic, but sometimes a newer and better thing is warranted on a reproduction like this.

Maybe theres a market for modern level of reliability LeMats.

tripe1917
February 28, 2011, 01:47 PM
I haven't shot mine yet because of my lack of knowledge on loading the shotgun tube. Any pointers? Also, I understand the shotgun barrel should be capable of being removed for cleaning, but mine doesn't want to budge. If I am looking down the barrel, which way should the shotgun barrel be twisted to unscrew?

Engineer Bill
March 1, 2011, 12:52 AM
LeMat Club,
A number of folks have questioned the reliability of lock up of the LeMat action, I'm wondering how many are aware of the action adjusting screw. It is located on the right side of the pistol, just behind the hammer screw, and controls the timing of the drop of the cylinder lock up pin as the hammer is cocked. The is a factory adjustment, not to be adjusted lightly, to be considered maybe after cleaning, deburring & oiling.
Regards,
Engineer Bill

Engineer Bill
March 1, 2011, 01:32 AM
The LeMat Club
Photos show new loading lever in place, and removed.
I took just the original loading lever bolt to the Industrial supply store and they were able to match the thread. I hacksawed off some of the threaded end so that no threads showed when screwed in, cut the rest to length, put a screwdriver slot in the top, and fire blued it with a propane tourch. I made a model out of wood to arrive at a simple shape that would work for the lever. A pice was cut from 1/2" aluninum plate and worked with drills & files. The aluminum can be blackened with a permenant black felt tip pen ( leave it shinney, easier to find when dropped ).
My second favorite mod is to replace that ineffective loading lever catch. The one in the photo is made from 3/4" bandsaw blade that was anealed, shaped, retempered, and fire blued. It's in photo.

Regards,
Engineer Bill

PS How about a postal shoot? Entrants share load & data for sake of the Club?

madcratebuilder
March 1, 2011, 08:45 AM
I'm assuming that these are all Pietta reproduction LeMat. If not, Congrats to you who have original LeMats, they are near priceless. If they are reproductions, why are they so unreliable. I understand the need to keep them authentic, but sometimes a newer and better thing is warranted on a reproduction like this.

Maybe theres a market for modern level of reliability LeMats.
I wouldn't say the Pietta LeMat is unreliable, it suffers some of the same issues of the original. The loading lever can become unlatched and jam the cylinder, just like the old ones. The ram rod for loading the center barrel comes out on recoil and is lost. Very few originals have the ram rod.

Getting the center barrel cap to ignite can be challenging with modern caps.


Engineer Bill, that lever is very nice, great mechanical advantage. I may infringe your copy right.

Vermonter
March 1, 2011, 02:38 PM
How much powder can they hold? What's the difference between the different models?

arcticap
March 2, 2011, 11:04 AM
The differences between models are mentioned beginning in post #17:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=461019&highlight=lemat

Plus more by Rachen in post #8:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=272012


Here's a little guide:
Spur trigger guard, spur hammer switch, lever barrel release: CAVALRY
Round trigger guard, lever hammer switch, knob barrel release: NAVY
Round trigger guard, spur hammer switch, knob barrel release: ARMY

I load the grapeshot barrel of my Navy model with 55-60 grains of Pyrodex RS or Goex 2F and a charge of about 1-1.5 ounces of OO Buckshot.

More detailed loading info. including velocity figures:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=465836&highlight=lemat

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=506259&highlight=lemat

DammitBoy
March 2, 2011, 11:57 AM
Spur trigger guard, spur hammer switch, lever barrel release: CAVALRY
Round trigger guard, lever hammer switch, knob barrel release: NAVY
Round trigger guard, spur hammer switch, knob barrel release: ARMY

Is there any advantage to any one of those combinations over the others?

arcticap
March 2, 2011, 01:25 PM
At least 2 posters recommended the Navy Model, IIRC it was the latest model.
From Rachen's post #8:

PS, FLORIDABOY, if you are thinking of getting a LeMat, get the Navy model. It is more rugged due to the knob barrel release, different from the lever that would not flip down when the weapon fires. Go to the Dixie Gun Works website, find the LeMat Navy, and read the comments about it. My comments (name: Raymond Chen), Mec's and others are all on it. Just be sure though, nobody gave the weapon a rating lower than a 4-star. Many people are impressed.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=272012

From Das Jaeger's Post #17:

Jaeger Post #17 Das Jaeger , and don't get me wrong I would buy the Cavalry model in one second too , just prefer the Navy is all .

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=461019&highlight=lemat

Hatchett
March 2, 2011, 11:54 PM
Anyone thinking of buying the Cavalry version should keep an eye on the one you can buy from the Cabelas site. Its price fluctuates quite a lot, almost monthly. Sometimes it's 900, right now its 800. When I got mine it was on sale for 700 and a rebate I had brought it down considerably more and with free shipping. It may go even cheaper -- so just make sure to watch and wait a while if you get the bug to join the club.

Engineer Bill
March 4, 2011, 02:33 AM
Was out shooting with some six shooter friends, and took some time showin them the loading of all 9 shots. My turn to shoot, and they all started counting out loud after the 6th shot. They said they was impressed. I said "Check this out", and fired the shotgun barrel, which took out the center of the targe entire. (I had loaded it with shot before they came along). I have trouble getting the shotgun to fire, also. I gently place the hammer on the cap and then thump the hammer with a bit of broom handle when I want it to go off.

Engineer Bill

madcratebuilder
March 9, 2011, 08:06 AM
I have trouble getting the shotgun to fire, also. I gently place the hammer on the cap and then thump the hammer with a bit of broom handle when I want it to go off.


If you carefully sand the face of some caps to thin the material they well ignite easier on the center barrel. I use a small dowel and a belt sander. Go slow so you don't build up heat.

snidervolley
March 10, 2011, 11:05 AM
i was thinking that you could make more of point to the shot gun flip hammer by dremeling of a bit ??

elnielsen
March 18, 2011, 02:23 AM
:what::evil::eek:

Engineer Bill
March 22, 2011, 12:40 PM
I was at a match where I saw a Le Mat converted to fire .38 special cartdriges. Wondering who did the work and if the shotgun was converted also?

Engineer Bill

col.lemat
April 3, 2011, 02:19 PM
any lemat owners in so.cal? I have alot of knowledge on these pistols and how to make the reproductions function reliably.

Fingers McGee
April 3, 2011, 05:10 PM
Here's a model to own.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c86/fingersmcgee/lematrifleright17.jpg

Wish I did.

Used to have a Cavalry model; but, someone wanted it more than I did & made me an offer I couldn't refuse. Used the proceeds to buy a couple 2nd Gens.

DammitBoy
April 3, 2011, 09:18 PM
Is that revolving carbine lemat a replica available for sale?

Fingers McGee
April 4, 2011, 12:05 PM
Is that revolving carbine lemat a replica available for sale?


I wish. But; sadly it's a picture of an original. No one makes repros of them

col.lemat
April 24, 2011, 07:32 PM
I have put nearly 1,000 rounds down range with mine. Blueing looks like crapp but still no broken parts, and I load the shotgun real heavy!

snidervolley
April 25, 2011, 08:11 AM
i am building two replicas and alas they will be the only ones on the planet under fifty thousand dollars and shootable

snidervolley
April 25, 2011, 08:12 AM
thats awesome ! not as fragile as everyone would have you believe aye

col.lemat
April 25, 2011, 01:25 PM
40 gr. 2fg +18 .27 cal. buck shot or a buck & ball load @.58 round ball + 9 of the buck. Pushing 1.5 oz. of lead. Have gone higher than 60 gr. with bb shot. Using dixie mold to get conicials over 20gr. powder. tried 25gr. but very little room to seat the bullet. Would have the room with R.B. #11 Remington caps no misfires. Tried CCI and had misfires. Also tried bogus powders (pyrodex) don't care for it. I'll stick to the real stuff.

mholstein13
July 29, 2011, 04:32 PM
any way to get the takedown lever on the cavalry model to stop flipping open? kinda new at this

Red October
July 30, 2011, 08:59 AM
Count me in!
Big, heavy, takes two hands to operate, and I love it.
DGW repro. Haven't had any issues so far with ramrod movement during firing.

col.lemat
July 30, 2011, 02:17 PM
I would like to welcome the new members. I hope to post some photos of my LeMats when the wife gets back mid Augest.

Dnaltrop
July 30, 2011, 02:58 PM
From what I understand, the Shotgun reliability problem used to be overcome by hitting the cap with a hammer-strike before the final loading of the shot barrel. It's been a "feature" of this weapon since day one.

Don't have a BP gun yet, but that LeMat has had my attention since my days shopping for my first Cowboy action revolver purchase (the Schofield) I've been told that the Colt Walker is a better beginners BP gun, but there's just SOMETHING about this awkward, finicky tank of a gun that gives me that itch.

col.lemat
July 30, 2011, 03:24 PM
Not true. A simple fix. Do it right first time and be done with it. Most of the pistols leaveing the factory now days have it that I have seen, But if you remove the nipples and do not pay attention to details in reassembling it will result in miss fires. It's in the nipples & brand of caps

snidervolley
August 1, 2011, 10:03 AM
my lemat carbine project in the early days with prototype modeling stock rough fitted and prior to that my daughter holding roughed in barreled conversions

DammitBoy
August 1, 2011, 11:12 PM
That is completely awesome snider!

snidervolley
August 2, 2011, 04:48 PM
thanks it been a long road with a lot of work but well worth it

Tattooed Bard
August 2, 2011, 10:16 PM
I owned an original in the late 80s. bought it at a yard sale in west va for 50 bucks. Unfortunately, it and alot of others I wished I still had got caught in a very ugly divorce in 95. Seeing these and having recently got into blackpowder shooting with my 10 year old makes me still want to cry. Yeah, I made out when I sold it but damn I miss the old girl.

Good to know there are more repros out there besides the Navy Arms

bprevolver
August 7, 2011, 04:15 PM
Did you know that Pietta made the LeMat with with both a plain cylinder (early models) and an engraved cylinder? Did you also know that they were available with case hardened frames? There were also some fully engraved models and models in the white engraved but not readily available in the U.S. Little tid bits for the collector.

col.lemat
August 7, 2011, 04:49 PM
147025

Some of my confederate pistols.

snidervolley
August 28, 2011, 12:45 PM
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=248762696

snidervolley
August 28, 2011, 03:39 PM
heres a shot

snidervolley
August 30, 2011, 02:22 PM
other side of first carbine made to match patent dwg from 1861

jolasa
September 25, 2011, 01:22 PM
Purchased Pietta LeMat from Cabelas. I was aware of the shotgun cap misfire situation, but I see another problem.

I put a cap on the shotgun nipple, lower the swivelling hammer down, cock the hammer, pull the trigger. The hammer hits the shotgun cap, the cap does not fire, but then the hammer swivels up and returns to the "up" and then continues on to hit a nipple on the cylinder. So I sent this back to Cabelas and ordered a replacement.

The replacement does the SAME thing, shotgun cap misfires, hammer rotates up and hits the cylinder nipples.

Can I fix this? Or do I need to go to a gunsmith? Or should I just send it back again and give up on LeMats?

Any gunsmiths reading this?

Jon

col.lemat
September 25, 2011, 02:19 PM
The Cavalry model is the most accerate of the reproductions as far as following the original design. The barrel locking lever is the biggest complaint. It was not made correctly and springs open when it should spring closed. The shotgun barrel nipple usually needs a slight modification for reliable ignition + I only use Remmington caps as I had misfires with CCI brand of caps. As far as cap size, I have found differnt sized nipples on the differnt model guns. Some are 11's while other are 10's = Use what fits the best

jolasa
November 1, 2011, 08:35 PM
Finally got to the range after Col LeMat made some excellent repairs so that the shotgun caps would fire, barrel could be removed easily, machined the barrel securing latch to work better, etc. (contact Col LeMat via this Forum - click on col. lemat in message above and send him an email or private message).

Firing cylinder rounds, no problems also. Used 20 grains of Swiss FFFg (with 25 grains, I could not get enough leverage on the loading handle to push the ball below the level of the top of the cylinder, so guess I will just use 20 grains under the 0.451” balls). I am using a lubricated wad about 1/8” thick which may be the problem with 25 grains in the cylinders to raise the ball too high (not deep enough in the cylinder holes).

And I got some ¼” cork, and cut some wads with a 5/8” cutter for the shotgun. Shotgun, as recommended by Col LeMat, 40 grains FFFg, then add a 1/4" cork wad, then add 1.5 oz. # 4 buckshot (about 33 of the 0.24" balls), then add a final 1/4" cork wad. Used remington # 11 blackpowder caps.

The pistol now works fine overall: fired shotgun 5 times, fired the first time every time; fired 4 full cylinders of 0.451" balls.

One minor problem, the loading handle still pops up when firing the shotgun with 40 grains of Swiss FFFg and 1.5 oz of # 4 buckshot, so guess I will use a loop of rawhide to tie it down each time like they used to do.

FUN STUFF!

Indy4570
November 13, 2011, 10:07 PM
I wish I could afford to join this club! been a fan of the Le Mat for many years.

col.lemat
November 13, 2011, 10:20 PM
Cabelas raised their prices some months ago to about $850 on sale?
Dixie Gunworks is now the cheepest priced at $825.
I noticed Dixie lowered their prices some more last week for their Christmas sale.
Also I think there is one on Gunbroker with no reserve at $600

Indy4570
November 13, 2011, 10:30 PM
I just dropped about $550 for A NIB Uberti Walker with a spare cylinder and a shorty 1858 remmy from Cabelas. I buy anything else right now and I will be sleepin outside with the horse and the mule!

JDBoardman
May 1, 2012, 12:34 PM
Count me in as a new member. I just acquired a "Navy" LeMat. In my case, the purchase of this fine revolver was not only inevitable, but virtually required. I am a direct lineal descendant of Gen'l P.G.T. Beauregard, inherited the sword he was given at Graduation from West Point in 1838, which I carried as a Company Grade officer in the 1960's, so it became essential that I complement my cutlery with this firearm which he did much to promote.

col.lemat
May 1, 2012, 05:35 PM
I still have a few spare cylinders left if any one is interested. 2 used in the blue engraved, 1 in the white no engraving that can be blued. $150. ea + postage.
Have several spare rammers complete, Pietta manufractured, plus some other small parts.
Should have heavy duty rammers by months end, manufractured to Lemat's origional specs for those of you who have bent their Pietta ones like i did.

runs.for.beer
May 3, 2012, 09:32 PM
I was lucky enough to pick up one of the Col. Cylinder's and I am quite glad I did. It is quite nice to load two at a time on a loading stand.

I am looking forward to getting one o the heavy duty loading levers when they become available.

JDBoardman
May 19, 2012, 09:34 AM
Went to the range for the first time yesterday after work - what a hoot. Recoil with the revolver cylinders was no big deal (25 gr. fffg, .454 ball) but the shotgun barrel - well that's another kettle of fish (45 gr fffg, 9 .32 balls). My question now is how do I get the shotty barrel loose for cleaning. I know it is threaded but mine won't come loose. All 10 nipples came out with no problem, but that dang big tube just won't come loose. Should I use a strap wrench maybe, or just leave well enough alone.

This sucker is surprisingly accurate as a revolver - easy 4" groups "duelist style" at 17 yards, and the shotgun is certainly intimidating, if not very long range. Besides, you can always run away ('strategically advance in a retrograde direction') behind the smokescreen.

lionrobe77
June 6, 2013, 04:26 PM
Hi all, as french owner of a Lemat, let me show you original photos I made of the graveyard of Dr Lemat, buried near Eiffel tower (?) cemetary of Passy :

http://www.zimagez.com/miniature/lemat0.jpg (http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/lemat0.php)-http://www.zimagez.com/miniature/dsc048637.jpg (http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/dsc048637.php)

and some pics extracted from french comics :

http://www.zimagez.com/miniature/pustule-krystal-020.jpg (http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/pustule-krystal-020.php)-http://www.zimagez.com/miniature/bouncert04lavengeancedumanchot24.jpg (http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/bouncert04lavengeancedumanchot24.php)-http://www.zimagez.com/miniature/35380.jpg (http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/35380.php)
http://i24.servimg.com/u/f24/11/74/35/51/th/bois-c10.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=423&u=11743551)

http://i24.servimg.com/u/f24/11/74/35/51/th/bois-c11.jpg (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=424&u=11743551)
http://www.zimagez.com/miniature/lemat.jpg (http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/lemat.php)-http://www.zimagez.com/miniature/img39129.jpg (http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/img39129.php)

BTW do you know Alain Serpette and his books about Lemat ?

elhombreconnonombre
June 6, 2013, 05:13 PM
Howdy from Bandera, Texas. I havn't seen a post here fir some time. I just scored a brand new 20 year old Pietta Le Mat at a local gun show for barely $200 U.S. Do these things really go for like $1,000 Euros over in Europe.

PRD1
June 6, 2013, 05:35 PM
a friend bought a LeMat repro from Cabellas a while back. It looked good and we shot it with fair results.
Recently, I borrowed it as a companion piece for a 'movie LeMat' (a crudely-made simulation probably from Mexico, which would fire blank charges, but did not have the mechanism to automatically rotate the cylinder, etc.) which I wanted to show-and-tell at a meeting of the Historical Arms Society of Tucson.
I discovered that the manufacturer of the Cabellas repro had overlooked a minor detail in producing the gun: the .44 barrel was unrifled. It was smooth reamed, but had never had any rifling in the bore.
Cabellas refused to make it good, and there appears to be no interest in doing so by the manufacturer.
If you buy one from Cabellas, check it closely.

PRD1 - mhb - Mike

FiveStrings
June 6, 2013, 09:18 PM
Lionrobe thank you for an excellent post. I really enjoyed the comics.

WardenWolf
June 6, 2013, 10:14 PM
a friend bought a LeMat repro from Cabellas a while back. It looked good and we shot it with fair results.
Recently, I borrowed it as a companion piece for a 'movie LeMat' (a crudely-made simulation probably from Mexico, which would fire blank charges, but did not have the mechanism to automatically rotate the cylinder, etc.) which I wanted to show-and-tell at a meeting of the Historical Arms Society of Tucson.
I discovered that the manufacturer of the Cabellas repro had overlooked a minor detail in producing the gun: the .44 barrel was unrifled. It was smooth reamed, but had never had any rifling in the bore.
Cabellas refused to make it good, and there appears to be no interest in doing so by the manufacturer.
If you buy one from Cabellas, check it closely.

PRD1 - mhb - Mike
A smoothbore pistol is an NFA item, and I don't think black powder is exempted. You may have a problem.

col.lemat
June 6, 2013, 10:51 PM
The LeMat is exempt. It already has a smooth bore shotgun barrel. Besides who is to say the rifling is not just shot out.

PRD1
June 6, 2013, 11:22 PM
I am saying there was never any rifling in the pistol barrel - the piece was bought new from Cabellas, and is still in essentially new condition, having been fired fewer than 30 rounds altogether.
I am, myself, a barrel maker, and have the means to inspect, measure and otherwise evaluate barrels, as well as the experience in doing so.
I know well what worn and damaged barrels look like, and this wasn't one.
I have no idea how many rounds it would take to wear a rifled barrel smooth with BP and pure lead, but doubt it could be accomplished in a lifetime of shooting, if ever, or that the piece would endure the mechanical wear and tear to permit such a number of rounds to be fired.

WardenWolf
June 6, 2013, 11:35 PM
The LeMat is exempt. It already has a smooth bore shotgun barrel. Besides who is to say the rifling is not just shot out.
It's exempt for the shotgun barrel. Not the revolver barrels.

All I can say is, you have a problem. I would strongly recommend you be rid of the piece.

elhombreconnonombre
June 7, 2013, 12:05 AM
Well my LM has rifling, came from DGW 20 years ago.

On the related topic of smoothbore pistols etc, Cabelas and many others online sell the smoothbore Pedersoli sxs 20 gauge Howdah 11 inch long barrel pistol and detachable stock and the Pedersoli 12" barrel 20 gauge sxs baker Cavalry shotgun. I know for a fact you can walk into Cabelas or order from DGW, etc. and buy either of these with no FFL paperwork. If you're an old guy like me they won't even ask for your DL. From what I understand these short barrelled percussion c&b muzzle loaders are not a regulated item, not SBOs. nor even a firearm, under NFA , the GCA, or Texas state law. Likewise the Pietta Buffalo Revolver with the detachable stock is not considered a SBR. Your milege may vary considerably in other states/local jurisdictions.

WardenWolf
June 7, 2013, 12:29 AM
The difference is that these are accurate replicas of old firearms. An unrifled Lemat, on the other hand, is not an accurate replica and thus would not receive the same exemptions. In that case, it is making a change to the weapon's design that would make it an NFA weapon, specifically an AOW. Fortunately, the solution is just a $5 tax stamp. But having it in the mean time is just trouble.

elhombreconnonombre
June 7, 2013, 12:48 AM
IMHO the Pedersoli Howdah is more in the fantasy category as opposed to a true replica of a real item. Most true Howdahs used in India and Africa were cut down from Nitro Express double rifles. The Howdah looks like the double barrel Frontier Davy Crockett toy pistol that Hubley made in the 50s, based on early sxs 1800s flintlocks. That was my fav until Mattel came out with the Fanner 50 line.

PRD1
June 7, 2013, 01:31 AM
that non-cartridge firing arms are not covered by the provisions of GCA 34.

There are many smoothbore ML pistols currently available, some of which are not accurate copies of any particular original arm.

I'm also pretty sure that, were the provisions of GCA 34 applicable to percussion or flintlock arms, the current crop of short-barreled ML shotguns would not be available.

PRD1 - mhb - Mike

lionrobe77
June 7, 2013, 02:22 AM
Interesting books I have.


http://www.zimagez.com/miniature/091109lematrevolver.jpg (http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/091109lematrevolver.php)

http://www.zimagez.com/miniature/00137ad97dc448e25de20b3e5e104743426.jpg (http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/00137ad97dc448e25de20b3e5e104743426.php)- http://www.zimagez.com/miniature/002cd3bec22cb32b265dfe132897b8c4d32.jpg (http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/002cd3bec22cb32b265dfe132897b8c4d32.php)- http://www.zimagez.com/miniature/003de8c9f1f0a3d3331e6d22d61104c56d1.jpg (http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/003de8c9f1f0a3d3331e6d22d61104c56d1.php)

My own LeMat (replica) mildly customized
http://www.zimagez.com/miniature/dsc042059.jpg (http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/dsc042059.php)- http://www.zimagez.com/miniature/dsc0420711.jpg (http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/dsc0420711.php)- http://www.zimagez.com/miniature/dsc0420814.jpg (http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/dsc0420814.php)

http://www.zimagez.com/miniature/dsc0420912.jpg (http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/dsc0420912.php)- http://www.zimagez.com/miniature/dsc0421012.jpg (http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/dsc0421012.php)


A french friend made recently 2 good posts with a lot of photos of his original guns and others, but in our mother's tongue
I could use babelfish for translation, you can too, but the result would be pitiful, as you know.
My question : am I allowed to repost a text in french language ? Of course, I can try to translate some parts if any question....
???

elhombreconnonombre
June 7, 2013, 02:27 AM
I love this site. One day you're looking into a stale year old thread
Somebody from France posts a comic strip featuring the item your interested in
and pics of the burial site of the inventor of the item and winds up in a discussion
in a discussion of U.S. legal issues.
You gotta love this site...really. You can learn so much stuff.
How about the late 50s Western series The Ringo Kid, who carried
I think 2 Le Mats. I.looked all over for the pics of the
shooters used during the production. They were likely studio props since even in 1959 real
Le Mats were near priceless collectables and wouldnt be used.

elhombreconnonombre
June 7, 2013, 02:39 AM
What a stunning case and original Le Mat. I have started making some
French velvet lined fitted revolver cases from wooden flatware cabinets off ebay. See what I meant from my previous post?...down the rabbit hole we go.

elhombreconnonombre
June 7, 2013, 03:17 AM
I found a production still of the Ringo Kid with his "Le
Mat". I'll try to post it. DANG cant post pic from my
phone and my laptop os dead. Just search The Ringo
Kid tv on imdb and there is a photo with him drawing. I think its a prop,
made from a six shooter, but it does have a bunch
of cylinder bore holes and closely resembles a
real Le Mat. The running gag on the show was that the
bad guys would always assume he had run out of rounds after
after 6 shots, but he had 3 left in the cylinder and another
in the smoothbore. The bad guys would simply throw up their
arms and give up. FUN STUFF

elhombreconnonombre
June 7, 2013, 04:03 AM
The still of the Ringo's Le Mat appears to have at least 6 boreholes on half of the
cylinder face, which makes since if it was mocked up from a 6 shooter. There is entire
episode on youtube called The Posse. The stock show intro shows Ringo
firing 6 shots then firing the shotgun barrel, so the gag was that
it was a 7 shooter. One scene shows Ringo cleaning and loading
the shooter. He asks his deputy for a 410 shell. The
shooter is a breaktop revolver with six brass cartridges and a
central 410 shotgun barrel made up by the studio
armorer probably. Even so, its pretty cool.

snidervolley
June 7, 2013, 09:10 AM
the Johny Ringo tv lemat is an original percussion lemat converted to cartridge with a top break (albeit flimsy ) break open DOA!.
p..s. love the cartoons comics details they even got the rammer pooping up on firing awesome, thanks

snidervolley
June 7, 2013, 09:20 AM
i am finishing up on my lemat and cant wait to take it out and actually see what it can do(havin some probs with timing.?)

snidervolley
June 7, 2013, 09:30 AM
http://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg578/snidervolley/IMG_3420_zps6befafa6.jpg (http://s1244.photobucket.com/user/snidervolley/media/IMG_3420_zps6befafa6.jpg.html)
back sight in work and stock sling ring ,and getting the chamber timing back on track(not fun) ?

elhombreconnonombre
June 7, 2013, 09:59 AM
Very nice work on the carbine. I'm thinking about adapting a Pedersoli Howdah pistol detachable stock to my LM. The geometry and lines are a close match to the LM grip. That would fit into my collection of detachable stock revolvers well: 1851 Colt, 1848 Dragoon, and 1858 Remmie Buffalo "Fantasty".

Also I found a site that describes in detailed pics the Johnny Ringo LM, acquired by the show's producer Dick Powell from Harrahs back in the 50s and I guess converted back then?????

Also, one of the show's directors was Paul Henreid, who played Victor Lazlo, in Casablanca, a French actor I believe.

elhombreconnonombre
June 7, 2013, 11:09 AM
Pic of my detachable stock idea.

elhombreconnonombre
June 7, 2013, 12:41 PM
Quick cross draw shoulder rig made from over chest belt threaded through two slits in a long sleeve shirt and a Triple K Walker Colt leather holster, worn over a t shirt w/ the shirt buttoned up. No visible means of support...kind of like my last girlfriend.

lionrobe77
June 8, 2013, 01:50 AM
Not sure if Howdah shoulderstock fits or not for LeMat (any other idea ?), but at least for a schofield (replica) after some work

http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/6858/dsc05255n.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/26/dsc05255n.jpg/)


http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/5241/dsc06482t.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/36/dsc06482t.jpg/)



http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/7305/dsc06481a.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/41/dsc06481a.jpg/)



http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/8130/dsc06478f.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/831/dsc06478f.jpg/)

mykeal
June 8, 2013, 07:25 AM
What's the LOP on those?

elhombreconnonombre
June 8, 2013, 08:57 PM
That's what I'm talking about. Nice looking shooter. stock, and box. I went to my local Cabelas and took a lot of measurements of the Howdah grip and a took pics of the grip shape. The grip cross section and curve of the Howdah grip matches the Le Mat nearly perfectly. Dittto on mykeal's request for the LOP. I might have to get a shooter like yours AND a Howdah to justifiy buying a stock that fits 3 shooters.;)

lionrobe77
June 9, 2013, 12:51 AM
To be honest, and it would probably be the same for the LeMat, the shooting with the shoulderstock is a pain in the ass, in the sense that you receive the blast of ashes (sorry, can't find appropriate words) directly in the face.
Cant' explain why, but I have'nt at all this problem with my Walker....?

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=341028&page=141

elhombreconnonombre
June 9, 2013, 09:37 AM
hMMM...I don't have that problem with either my 1858 Remmie Buffalo .44 or 1851 Navy .36 repros using an Italian repro Colt-style stock and Pyrodex bp substitute. I haven't heard of anybody complaining about the Pedersoli stock with the Howdah, except that the stock was too low for proper line of sight in some of the earlier production runs of the stocks, which has now been fixed. My Cabelas didn't have a Howdah stock to measure to compare length and line of sight.

What's the length of the stock from the back edge of your Schofield's grip to the end of the butt. Maybe it's just really short and puts you too close to all of the "action". Perhaps I will not pay the $200 for the Howdah stock and just hit ebay for a nice rifle stock and cut it down to fit with a proper line of sight and put my face further back.
I have been thinking about the Le Mat stock since I got this shooter. I initially came up with a design consisting of metal strap drilled and tapped with two holes that would attach to the backstrap of the grip via tapped holes near each end of the bracket. The metal strap would be attached to the stock first via holes and long wood screws drilled through the bracket. I only thought of the Howdah stock because of its period look and that I wouldn't necessarily have to drill and tap the grip of the Le Mat.

elhombreconnonombre
June 9, 2013, 09:42 AM
hMMM...I don't have that problem with either my 1858 Remmie Buffalo .44 or 1851 Navy .36 repros using an Italian repro Colt-style stock and Pyrodex bp substitute. I haven't heard of anybody complaining about the Pedersoli stock with the Howdah, except that the stock was too low for proper line of sight in some of the earlier production runs of the stocks, which has now been fixed. My Cabelas didn't have a Howdah stock to measure to compare length and line of sight.

What's the length of the stock from the back edge of your Schofield's grip to the end of the butt. Maybe it's just really short and puts you too close to all of the "action". Perhaps I will not pay the $200 for the Howdah stock and just hit ebay for a nice rifle stock and cut it down to fit with a proper line of sight and put my face further back.
I have been thinking about the Le Mat stock since I got this shooter. I initially came up with a design consisting of metal strap drilled and tapped with two holes that would attach to the backstrap of the grip via tapped holes near each end of the bracket. The metal strap would be attached to the stock first via holes and long wood screws drilled through the bracket. I only thought of the Howdah stock because of its period look and that I wouldn't necessarily have to drill and tap the grip of the Le Mat.

elhombreconnonombre
June 9, 2013, 10:32 AM
I caught your post and pics in the Walker Club you mentioned here. I was considering mounting a modded Italian detachable shoulder that perfectly fits both my Pietta 1851 Colt Navy and 1858 Remmie Buffalo stock right out of the box to a Walker or 1st Series Dragoon for versatility. Some of the old hands here say can't be done without some major work: including frame is way too wide for the stock mounting hardware, stock has to fit on a drilled 4th frame screw like on the 3rd Dragoon, the recoil shield would have to be cut both sides of the frame, the grip is too long for the hook to work, etc. Yesterday I went and measured a Colt 2nd generation 1st Model Dragoon I was considering purchasing using a machinist caliper.
The stock brass mounting hardware is definitely not wide enough for the Dragoon frame and grip, but not by much. There is still enough meat in the brass mounting hardware to allow removal of some material to fit around the frame still allow engagement of a longer hammer screw. I would have to measure carefully but if done properly I think I could still use the stock for my other shooters.
Your pics on your Walker appear follow the same idea I had with your Walker grip notched for the Italian repro stock hook. Anything else I should know about this mod?

lionrobe77
June 9, 2013, 01:15 PM
With my terrible english, and my 2 left hands, it's a bit difficult to say more. I know that my friend needed to enlarge slightly the shoulderstock.
OK, please, let me know if a french text is offending or not, so I'll edit, or I'll try to translate some parts or answer if any questions ????

A friend of mine made once this post :

Le Dr Le Mat et ses revolvers à percussion

Arme de poing à la silhouette incomparable et reconnaissable au premier regard, le revolver Le Mat à percussion est un symbole à lui tout seul.
Sa simple évocation emporte le collectionneur dans un tourbillon vers le passé ou se mêlent les images romantiques et celles, tragiques, de la terrible guerre fratricide qui déchira les Etats-Unis de 1861 à 1865.


1) LE GENIAL INVENTEUR


Né à Bordeaux le 21 Avril 1821, Jean Alexandre François Le Mat se destine d’abord à devenir prêtre. Au bout d’un an, il change radicalement l’orientation de sa vie et décide de faire des études de médecine, sanctionnée par un diplôme de la faculté de Montpellier le 15 juillet 1842. Il travaille alors pendant 16 mois à l’hôpital militaire de Bordeaux avant de quitter la France pour rejoindre la Louisiane. C’est ainsi qu’il arrive à la Nouvelle Orléans le 7 février 1844.
Plutôt que d’exercer la médecine, il choisit la voie des inventions, du commerce et des affaires.
De 1844 à 1859, il fut impliqué dans le commerce de tabac vers la France, se maria avec la fille du plus important banquier de la ville, développa d’importantes relations influentes, déposa plusieurs brevets d’inventions relatives au domaine maritime. Surtout, il forma un partenariat avec le Major Beauregard de l’US ARMY (formalisé le 4 avril 1859) et déposa le 21 Octobre 1856 un brevet révolutionnaire pour un revolver dont l’axe autour duquel tournait le barillet était un canon à âme lisse (« grape shot revolver »).


http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/8264/56069385.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/13/56069385.jpg/)




Les premiers prototypes de ce revolver ne seront construits qu’à partir de l’année 1859, ces rarissimes exemplaires seront manufacturés par l’armurier John Krider de Philadelphie.
Sept exemplaires sont actuellement recensés dans le monde, en plus d’avoir un design différent des armes produites en séries, ils sont marqués sur le canon : « MADE BY JOHN KRIDER PHILADA. LE MAT’S GRAPE SHOT REVOLVER PATENT ».




http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/2313/24033188.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/843/24033188.jpg/)



Grâce à l’appui du MAJ Beauregard, Le Mat tente de séduire les milieux militaires avec son nouveau revolver. Le 16 Avril 1859, le Dr Le Mat est promu aide de camp du Gouverneur de Louisiane et reçoit le titre honorifique de Colonel.

Le 9 mai 1859 le revolver est testé à l’arsenal de Washington et reçoit un accueil chaleureux de la commission, suggérant quelques ajustements mineurs et surtout que l’arme soit distribuée à titre de test sur le terrain aux formations de l’US Army.

Mais en cette période de paix, l’US Army n’est pas intéressée pour produire à ses frais ce revolver.
De mai 1859 à juillet 1860, le Maj Beauregard, en tant que représentant américain du partenariat avec Le Mat, prit contact avec toutes les principales entreprises d’armes à travers le pays en vue de faire construire ce revolver en série.
Pendant ce temps le Dr Le Mat effectuait les mêmes démarches en Europe.
Il est probable que les revolvers Kryder N°1 et N°2 aient servis de modèles de présentation pour les 2 hommes auprès des armuriers.
Ces revolvers Kryder sont très probablement les seuls revolvers Le Mat qui furent produits en Amérique.

Les 2 hommes se trouvaient alors dans une situation paradoxale, leur revolver pouvait potentiellement intéresser l’US Army mais ils n’étaient pas capables de réaliser la production industrielle de cette arme.

Le Mat s’associa alors avec un riche confrère Français, le Dr Girard, probablement dans le but de faciliter cette mise en production.
Cette association provoqua une brouille entre le Major Beauregard et le Dr Le Mat et aboutit à la dissolution de leur partenariat le 2 juillet 1860.
Ainsi naquit le nouveau partenariat entre le Dr Le Mat et le Dr Girard le 10 juillet 1860, le Dr Girard possédant alors 75% des parts de l’entreprise.
Après plusieurs mois de travail, les deux associés décrochèrent le 15 novembre 1860 leur premier contrat de 400 revolvers pour la Garde de la Nouvelle Orléans : une composante de la milice de Louisiane.
Avec le déclenchement de la guerre de sécession en 1861, cette commande sera incluse dans les futures commandes des armées de la confédération (le 12 Août 1861, le Dr Le Mat passa un contrat de 5000 revolvers)

Devant le peu de ressources industrielles du Sud, les associés décidèrent d’installer la fabrication dans une petite usine à Paris située au 9 passage Joinville à Paris, afin de produire leur revolver.
C’est ainsi que débute réellement l’histoire des revolvers Le Mat avec la production en série à Paris du célèbre modèle à percussion à destination des armées de la CSA (Confederate States Army). Certains auteurs affirment que les 450 premiers revolvers Le Mat furent produits à Liège et non à Paris : quelques zones de mystères persistent!


2) LES REVOLVERS LE MAT A PERCUSSION

Traditionnellement, les revolvers Le Mat à percussion sont classés en plusieurs modèles distincts, en fonction de leurs caractéristiques extérieures :

a) Les premiers modèles de revolvers Le Mat (numéro de série de 1 à 450) comportent les caractéristiques suivantes :
• un pontet repose doigt,
• le levier de chargement à la droite de l'arme
• Système de clef pour le démontage sous la forme d’une petite pédale
• Un anneau de calotte flottant
• Un canon octogonal au départ puis rond.
• Le marquage LM en lettres anglaises entrelacées dans un ovale à côté du numéro de série sur le coté droit de l’arme

http://www.zimagez.com/miniature/clemat1ermodautorantiquefirearms-01.jpg (http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/clemat1ermodautorantiquefirearms-01.php)-http://www.zimagez.com/miniature/dlemat1ermodautorantiquefirearms-06.jpg (http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/dlemat1ermodautorantiquefirearms-06.php)- http://www.zimagez.com/miniature/eemat1ermodautorantiquefirearms-09.jpg (http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/eemat1ermodautorantiquefirearms-09.php)


http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/9451/flemat1ermodautorantiqu.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/17/flemat1ermodautorantiqu.jpg/)

http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/5879/77103351.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/534/77103351.jpg/)



b) Entre les numéros de série 450 vers 1000 (environ), apparaissent les modèles dits « de transition », combinant les caractéristiques des 1ers modèles et celles du 2eme modèle.

c) A partir du numéro de série 1000 (environ), on voit apparaître des changements qui caractérisent les revolvers Le Mat « second modèle », à savoir :

• Suppression du pontet repose doigt pour laisser à la place un pontet rond
• Levier de chargement à gauche de l'arme
• Démontage du revolver par une grosse goupille sous le canon
• Anneau de calotte intégrée dans l’armature de la poignée
• Canon supérieur octogonal sur toute la longueur
• Marquage LM en lettres capitales surmonté d’une étoile à coté du numéro de série sur le coté droit de l’arme


http://www.zimagez.com/miniature/hlemat2ememodautorantiquefirearms-03.jpg (http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/hlemat2ememodautorantiquefirearms-03.php)- -http://www.zimagez.com/miniature/ilemat1ermodautorantiquefirearms-02.jpg (http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/ilemat1ermodautorantiquefirearms-02.php)-http://www.zimagez.com/miniature/jlemat2ememodautorantiquefirearms-11.jpg (http://www.zimagez.com/zimage/jlemat2ememodautorantiquefirearms-11.php)

Il existera tout au long de l'évolution de ce revolver des variantes mineures concernant la forme du chien à 2 têtes et des variantes de marquages sur le canon associées à chaque évolution.



Ainsi un changement notable de marquage sur le canon est observé à partir des premiers revolvers autour du numéro 1800. Avant ce numéro le marquage est « Col Le Mat Bte sgdg Paris », le nouveau marquage devient alors « Syst Le Mat Bte sgdg Paris » en lettres gothiques ou capitales.

http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/9245/kp6232272.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/708/kp6232272.jpg/)

http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/7276/llemat2ememodautorantiq.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/856/llemat2ememodautorantiq.jpg/)




Curieusement on a pu observer certains revolvers portant ce marquage en lettres capitales avec une faute de frappe : SCDG au lieu de SGDG.

Le revolver Le Mat de fabrication parisienne portant le plus haut numéro observé est le 2494, on ignore si la production continua longtemps après ce numéro à Paris.

d) Les revolvers Le Mat produits en Grande Bretagne.

Une certaine zone de mystère entoure encore la production de ces armes outre-manche.

Dans le but de diversifier et d’augmenter les capacités de production de leur revolver les deux associés se tournèrent alors vers l’industrie armurière britannique.
La numérotation des Le Mat Anglais est confuse, certaines armes comportent des numéros de série faibles (un spécimen numéroté 5 est connu) puis la numérotation saute directement
autour du chiffre 100 puis dans la tranche des 1000, 3000, 5000, la grande majorité de ces revolvers étant numéroté entre 8000 et 9000.

D’après les recherches les plus récentes sur le sujet, il semble probable que les revolvers produits en Angleterre soient divisés en 2 catégories distinctes :

• Les armes produites par de petits armuriers indépendants (Aston & Francis, Robert Jones…)

• Celles incluses dans le cadre d’un contrat de 2000 armes clairement défini avec l’entreprise Tipping & Lawden (seuls 1000 exemplaires de ce contrat furent en réalité produits)


Les revolvers portant un numéro de série bas (inférieur à 8000) ont toutes les caractéristiques des revolvers produits à Paris dans les premières années.
De plus ces armes comportent des variantes au niveau du marquage du canon et une numérotation complètement chaotique suggérant la fabrication par des petits armuriers indépendants.
En réalité en observant de près ces revolvers on remarque des similitudes d’usinage avec les armes produites à Paris, indiquant très certainement que ces revolvers furent produits à Paris et expédiés pour finition (numérotation, marquage sur le canon …) chez différentes petites entreprises en Angleterre.



A l’inverse, les revolvers dont le numéro de série est compris entre 8000 et 9000 sont quasiment tous identiques au niveau finition comme au niveau mécanique, suggérant ainsi leur fabrication par une entreprise unique.
De plus ils comportent des différences d’usinage significatives avec les modèles tardifs produits à Paris, confirmant ainsi l’hypothèse d’une production entièrement anglaise.
Ces armes sont marquées sur le canon : « LEMAT & GIRARD’S PATENT LONDON » en lettres capitales.

http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/8923/97100483.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/826/97100483.jpg/)







La production effective de ces armes du contrat Tipping & Lawden débuta au début de l’année 1865, devant les difficultés financières croissantes du gouvernement de la Confédération, le Dr Girard ne fut payé que pour les 1000 premiers exemplaires et le reste de la commande fut annulé.

Il est peu probable qu’un seul de ces revolvers fut utilisé au combat par les armées du Sud, en effet le dernier document officiel témoignant d’une livraison effective de revolvers Le Mat par un bateau ayant réussi à forcer le blocus maritime du Nord date du milieu de l’année 1864.





e) Un autre critère de classification :

En réalité, si les différents modèles de revolvers Le Mat sont aujourd'hui désignés par les collectionneurs de la façon décrite ci dessus, il existe une différence importante dans le mécanisme de l'arme qui est transverse à la classification décrite.
En effet sur les premiers modèles de revolvers Parisien compris entre le numéro 1 et 2000 (environ), le verrouillage du barillet est assuré par un petit axe en métal qui, lorsque le chien est à l'armé, sort à coté de la barrette pour s'emboîter dans des petits trous (diam 1.5 mm) creusés dans la face arrière du barillet.
Ce mode de verrouillage ne convenait pas à l'utilisation pour de nombreuses raisons :
manqué de précision d'ajustage dans la fabrication, encrassage du à l'emploi de la poudre noire et de résidus divers qui bouchaient les trous dans le barillet, casse du petit ergot en métal....

http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/3770/m2ergot.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/202/m2ergot.jpg/)




http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/9914/nlemat2ememodautorantiq.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/94/nlemat2ememodautorantiq.jpg/)



Il faut souligner que les revolvers portant des marquages anglais avec des petits numéros de série comportent ce système de blocage du barillet.

lionrobe77
June 9, 2013, 01:23 PM
Suite à ces problèmes, le mode de verrouillage fut changé (à partir environ du numéro de série 2000) au profit d'une came s'emboîtant à l’arrière du barillet dans de larges encoches, assurant ainsi un verrouillage de bien meilleure qualité !
Les revolvers fabriqués à Londres dans le cadre du contrat Tipping & Lawden (numéro de série 8000 à 9000) comportent tous ce nouveau système de verrouillage.


http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/126/37545662.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/248/37545662.jpg/)


http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/7377/72452094.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/546/72452094.jpg/)



Cette différence fondamentale de mécanisme est visible au premier coup d’œil en observant le côté droit du revolver. En effet, la présence d’une petite vis à côté de la grosse vis de l’axe du chien indique d’emblée que le système de verrouillage est du premier type (cette petite vis est la vis de tension du ressort du petit axe s’emboîtant dans les trous à l’arrière du barillet)


http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/1511/38512102.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/849/38512102.jpg/)



http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/5120/37530855.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/15/37530855.jpg/)








f) La fabrication et la livraison des revolvers Le Mat

Le Docteur Le Mat et son associé le Dr Girard signèrent un contrat de 5000 revolvers pour les armées du sud, ce contrat ne sera jamais honoré totalement pour plusieurs raisons.
Tout d'abord, au niveau de la production, le revolver se révèle compliqué et long à produire.
De plus, le temps passant la confédération rechignait à payer les revolvers pour des problèmes de trésorerie.
Ainsi, les relations entre les Dr Girard responsable de la production à Paris et le major Caleb Huse, inspecteur des armées du sud responsable des achats d'armes en Europe, devinrent extrêmement tendues, Huse refusant de nombreux revolvers à l'inspection.
Un des reproches du Maj Huse portait sur le jeu que comportait le barillet à l’armé, imputable à un mode de verrouillage fragile. C'est suite à ces remarques, qu'il fut décidé de changer le système de verrouillage.
Cette modification ne désarma ni l’hostilité évidente du major Huse manifeste, ni sa mauvaise volonté certaine à accepter les revolvers Le Mat. Il fut même accusé par les 2 docteurs d'être corrompu et de privilégier l'achat du revolver anglais KERR produit par la London Armoury (de fait le revolver KERR avait clairement la préférence du MAJ HUSE).
Enfin, aux problèmes de production du revolver, s'ajoutait le problème de leur livraison car le temps passant, le blocus maritime des côtes de la confédération par la marine du nord s’avérait de plus en plus efficace, coulant de nombreux navires sudistes tentant de forcer le passage.

Ainsi, on estime que les derniers revolvers Le Mat fabriqués à Paris à avoir pu traverser l'atlantique et combattre aux mains de soldats confédérés ont des numéros de séries inférieurs à #1850 (environ).

Le total de production des revolvers Le Mat à percussion toutes productions confondues (France, Angleterre) est estimé à environ 3500 exemplaires dont à peu prés 1500 furent effectivement livrés aux armées de la Confédération.
Une écrasante majorité des revolvers utilisés par la CSA furent produits à Paris, quelques revolvers finis à Londres par des petits armuriers indépendants ont peut être pu forcer le blocus et rejoindre le Sud.[/quote]

Gaucho Gringo
June 9, 2013, 05:53 PM
Lionrobe77, no problem with the French text. I just went to Bing Translator and got the translated text. Interesting reading.

snidervolley
June 10, 2013, 08:56 AM
Wow
Lionrobe thanks for the post
found out after digging into my lemat thayt the main spring retainer pawl is broken %$^#()!! not sure if im capable of going that deep into this

elhombreconnonombre
July 5, 2013, 02:22 PM
I saw this on gunbroker. I don't think this is an Italian repro bp cyl. May be a fake, from a non firing repro, or perhaps could it be an original? What do yall think?

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=351382872#PIC

Dan D
July 17, 2013, 01:56 AM
The first time they listed it, I believe they said it was Uberti made. However, Uberti never made Lemat's did they? It should be pretty easy to tell if it's italian made or original as the threads would be metric on a repro.

elhombreconnonombre
July 18, 2013, 04:10 PM
I suggested to the seller that since they
were in Lost Wages to take it over to the
Pawn Stars gun guy. Dont know if they did. If
it was a genuine sn 333 cyl, it might have been
a cyl from one of the first shipment of Le Mats that
made it through the Union blockade.

col.lemat
July 18, 2013, 06:35 PM
Would the Italian made repro have metric threads? what about the original Lemats that were made in England France and Belgium. I some how guess that they just might be metric also.

elhombreconnonombre
July 19, 2013, 01:07 AM
I believe all modern Italian repros have metric threads including the nipples. I have no
idea what mechanical std was used in the 1860s in Europe.
Maybe mssr. Lionrobe will chime in from France.
I caught the Pawn Stars show where Rick offered a guy
$ 12k for an original Le Mat. I think the seller wisely declined.

elhombreconnonombre
September 20, 2013, 12:08 PM
Bonjour and a bighowdy from deep in the heart of
Texas.
A couple of Le Mats came up on gb lately. An early model with a plain non engraved
cylinder sold for $925 with 20+ bidders. There is another fancy gilded
"limited edition collectable" Le Mat with no bids at $1300.

flibuste
September 20, 2013, 02:00 PM
here is some shooting at 25 meters with my pistol (has been polished) :

http://i42.servimg.com/u/f42/11/02/14/58/01910.jpg

http://i70.servimg.com/u/f70/11/02/14/58/lemat_13.jpg

http://i70.servimg.com/u/f70/11/02/14/58/lemat_12.jpg

http://i70.servimg.com/u/f70/11/02/14/58/lemat_11.jpg
http://i70.servimg.com/u/f70/11/02/14/58/lemat_10.jpg




But here is an engraved model :



http://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/448219DSCN0035.jpg

snidervolley
September 22, 2013, 08:55 AM
went on a vacation to Thailand (wifes choice) and went here there and every where not expecting to find a thing truely interesting to me .
on the final days of the trip she wanted to see a palace ,so away we went in 95 degree heat which is ok but it was 95 percent humidty as well (PLeH!)
and as i was getting done for the day went into a building and low and behold it was an armoury and in the back of the armoury and in glass cases where three lemat percussion carbines WOW

kBob
September 22, 2013, 09:47 AM
AND YOU DID NOT TAKE A PICTURE?!?!?!?!

Sorry for the shouting.....

-kBob

snidervolley
September 23, 2013, 09:43 AM
http://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg578/snidervolley/IMG_4734_zpsdf25af7d.jpg

i did but being behind glass and not being alowed to take pics they didnt turn out so good

elhombreconnonombre
October 30, 2013, 12:21 PM
My Le Mat with horizontal cross draw Walker holster.

snidervolley
October 31, 2013, 07:34 AM
nice rig and picture thereof

lionrobe77
January 24, 2014, 04:38 PM
Unfortunately, Flibuste, the skillfull shooter and reloader, passed last month.

RIP, good friend.

elhombreconnonombre
January 24, 2014, 04:58 PM
Vaya con dios mi compadre flibuste. We will all Miss you. Thanks for informing us mssr. Lionrobe.

jolasa
February 12, 2014, 05:35 PM
Col. Lemat,

You tuned up my LeMat back in 2011.

Are you still doing tune ups on the Pietta LeMat pistol, for general fit and reliable shotgun firing?

Jolasa

snidervolley
February 13, 2014, 08:33 AM
col lemat i would like mine tuned too if your available

elhombreconnonombre
July 17, 2014, 01:55 PM
I came across some posts somewhere related to the Le Mat shown in the gun case aboard the "Wanderer" Pullman car in the "Wild Wild West" movie. It appears to be a steam punkish Le Mat prop gun with an interesting double ball-jointed shoulder stock. It got me thinking.....maybe?????

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